![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 41. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2011, at 0:21:15
In reply to Re: Remembering. » SLS, posted by larryhoover on September 11, 2011, at 20:46:18
Lar we will get them!!!! Phillipa
Posted by 10derheart on September 12, 2011, at 2:56:11
In reply to Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911 full movie on utube, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 11, 2011, at 23:28:35
Jay,
Why suggest this, on this thread, at this time?
Did Scott not post something personal and human and amazing about that day? Did it seem to you like he was saying - or even hinting - that he wishes - on this thread - to discuss the pros and cons of the aftermath and/or Mr Bush's presidency or Mr. Moore's view of it? I didn't think so. As a response to Scott's OP, I find the suggestion you make here that readers could go watch FH451 ....unsettling, at best :-( Maybe even inappropriate, though perhaps your individual passions on the aftermath overcame your sensitivity and better judgment? I know what a kind and caring guy you have always appeared to be at Babble, Jay. Time and place for this...?
Couldn't you please consider jane's gentle nudge to put posts addressing this aspect on Politics?
You say facts about the aftermath are direly important. OK. But could they be that over on a different thread on Politics?I got the impression the narrow escape of a beloved dad was/is "direly important" to Scott on *this* thread - here, you know?
Posted by Dinah on September 12, 2011, at 8:25:22
In reply to Re: Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911 full movie on utube » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by 10derheart on September 12, 2011, at 2:56:11
Posted by gardenergirl on September 12, 2011, at 18:44:49
In reply to Remembering., posted by SLS on September 10, 2011, at 6:34:22
Thank you for sharing your story, Scott. I'm so glad your dad survived what still seems so unimaginable.
gg
Posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 12, 2011, at 23:50:13
In reply to Re: Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911 full movie on utube » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by 10derheart on September 12, 2011, at 2:56:11
> Jay,
>
> Why suggest this, on this thread, at this time?
>
> Did Scott not post something personal and human and amazing about that day? Did it seem to you like he was saying - or even hinting - that he wishes - on this thread - to discuss the pros and cons of the aftermath and/or Mr Bush's presidency or Mr. Moore's view of it? I didn't think so. As a response to Scott's OP, I find the suggestion you make here that readers could go watch FH451 ....unsettling, at best :-( Maybe even inappropriate, though perhaps your individual passions on the aftermath overcame your sensitivity and better judgment? I know what a kind and caring guy you have always appeared to be at Babble, Jay. Time and place for this...?
>
> Couldn't you please consider jane's gentle nudge to put posts addressing this aspect on Politics?
> You say facts about the aftermath are direly important. OK. But could they be that over on a different thread on Politics?
>
> I got the impression the narrow escape of a beloved dad was/is "direly important" to Scott on *this* thread - here, you know?
>Hey, I posted the information *because* I very much care, and have just as much deep empathy about this horrid event as you do. Please don't assume you have a monopoly on what is and isn't relevant/important in this case. There was nothing that I posted that was ignorant or insensitive. Actually, I simply posted a few questions, and a link to the most popular documentary ever made. Many of the 9/11 victim's families feel their grief and questions (which are on record) around this tragedy have not been addressed. It would be heresy, and many feel in vain, to ignore that. I VERY strongly support Scott and any person or family who have had to live with a connection to this nightmare.
Jay
Posted by Dinah on September 13, 2011, at 0:04:50
In reply to Re: Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911 full movie on utube » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by 10derheart on September 12, 2011, at 2:56:11
Posted by Dinah on September 13, 2011, at 0:11:56
In reply to On at least most of what you said. (nm) » 10derheart, posted by Dinah on September 13, 2011, at 0:04:50
discussions into a thread about the grief and distress of many people on this board concerning the deaths that occurred when the planes crashed into buildings on September 11, 2011.
Posted by Dinah on September 13, 2011, at 2:10:54
In reply to I feel very upset by the insertion of political, posted by Dinah on September 13, 2011, at 0:11:56
Posted by 10derheart on September 13, 2011, at 3:42:38
In reply to Re: Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911 full movie on utube » 10derheart, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 12, 2011, at 23:50:13
I said what I wanted to say and thought I was clear. I am sorry that you have completely and utterly missed my point. I see no place I described you as ignorant or insensitive.
In any case, it's Scott's thread, Scott's call.
I surrender.
Posted by 10derheart on September 13, 2011, at 3:57:38
In reply to Re: Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911 full movie on utube » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by 10derheart on September 13, 2011, at 3:42:38
I apologize.
Please forgive me.
Posted by 10derheart on September 13, 2011, at 4:05:17
In reply to Re: Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911 full movie on utube » 10derheart, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 12, 2011, at 23:50:13
I did want to correct one misstatement and poor choice of words. I never meant to write that you *appeared* to be kind and caring on Babble, as if that were in question, or not the case now or something. I was trying to just capture the fact none of us actually know one another in cyberspace so overall I guess we could all project some person opposite of who we are (don't know why anyone would, but anything's possible)...but it wasn't supposed to read that way at all.
You have been kind,caring, supportive and passionate about important causes in past posts and I respect those qualities a great deal. I am sorry for my messed up choice of words.
Posted by SLS on September 13, 2011, at 5:48:56
In reply to Scott, posted by 10derheart on September 13, 2011, at 3:57:38
> I apologize.
>
> Please forgive me.I might if I knew what you were apologizing for.
I have been on this site long enough to moderate my reactivity to those behaviors that do not resonate well with my gestalt. I was not particularly offended by the posts here that interjected opinions of a political or military nature. I recognize that this is a demonstration of the differences in how people can react to the same event. I was not offended, but I was disappointed that this thread might morph into heated exchanges of differing opinions regarding the politics and logistics surrounded a nation's response to being attacked.
I still don't understand the depth of my emotional upset when I think of September 11, 2001. It was surely a day of the surreal. I lost no one in my life. You know, just having written that caused me to realize that I did indeed lose people in my life. I lost thousands of innocent brothers and sisters to a profane act of death and destruction. We in the U.S. finally experienced the sense of vulnerability to terrorism that the rest of the world had suffered for decades. How could this happen here in the US? We were supposedly forever safe under the protection of the world's greatest military. Things have forever changed.
I still cry at the drop of a hat when I think of that day. There seems to be an infinite reservoir of tears inside me that remains hidden from me until they are provoked. I never know when this will happen. At first, I pronounce to myself that these feelings are mine alone, as if they were somehow unique. However, it soon becomes obvious to me that I am not unique in my intense reaction to the bombings. I commiserate with millions of others. Innocence lost.
- Scott
Posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 13, 2011, at 9:58:30
In reply to Re: Scott » 10derheart, posted by SLS on September 13, 2011, at 5:48:56
Scott, I very honestly did not mean *any* disrespect for your experience and feelings. In fact, I posted my reference points *because* I have very deep empathy, more than I think some here seem to understand, for those affected and who lost so many lives on 9/11. I believe these people deserve answers or the horrific tragedy will all be in vain. It is all connected in some way or another.
In the aftermath, anyone who questioned things where told to "shut up", and I refer you to the quotation in your signature.Let us hope this next decade will be one of peace.
Gracefully under Pressure,Jay
Posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 13, 2011, at 10:18:13
In reply to Re: Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911 full movie on utube » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by 10derheart on September 13, 2011, at 4:05:17
> I did want to correct one misstatement and poor choice of words. I never meant to write that you *appeared* to be kind and caring on Babble, as if that were in question, or not the case now or something. I was trying to just capture the fact none of us actually know one another in cyberspace so overall I guess we could all project some person opposite of who we are (don't know why anyone would, but anything's possible)...but it wasn't supposed to read that way at all.
>
> You have been kind,caring, supportive and passionate about important causes in past posts and I respect those qualities a great deal. I am sorry for my messed up choice of words.Thank you very much for your kind and understanding post. I minced some words and don't think I came across the right way, and I apologize for any of my accusations. I honestly think we all want the same thing, and that is a high level of respect and compassion for all of those who lost, or nearly lost, their lives, as well as for their families. I see the deep compassion in both your posts, and in many, many supportive ones over the years.
So, I think we all agree in our wish for peace. And I know I can start it by initiating it on Psychobable. Thanks very kindly...
Jay
Posted by SLS on September 13, 2011, at 11:35:42
In reply to Scott please..., posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 13, 2011, at 9:58:30
> Scott, I very honestly did not mean *any* disrespect for your experience and feelings. In fact, I posted my reference points *because* I have very deep empathy, more than I think some here seem to understand, for those affected and who lost so many lives on 9/11. I believe these people deserve answers or the horrific tragedy will all be in vain. It is all connected in some way or another.
> In the aftermath, anyone who questioned things where told to "shut up", and I refer you to the quotation in your signature.
>
> Let us hope this next decade will be one of peace.
> Gracefully under Pressure,
>
> Jay
Well, Jay, I'm afraid I didn't make my point visible enough for you to see. You were not the target. I did not consider your first post to be an example of graffiti terrorism. However, it did seem misplaced. I think you found some evidence of this contained in the posts of others. Someone went so far as to start a new thread for you, such that you could establish a political topic. You might deliberate your choice of where to submit subsequent posts regarding political reactivity to the events of 9/11/2001. I would not want to see this thread deteriorate any further than it has already by exchanging a series of adversarial off-topic posts to one another.Meanwhile...
I would be curious to know what emotions you felt on 9/11/2001.
I probably would have enlisted in the military that day were I not too old for admission. I was angry, but felt impotent for being unable to do anything about it. I was hugely frustrated that I had no way of getting into Manhattan so I could look for my father. More than anything, I wanted to help, but my route to the city had been cut off.
- Scott
Posted by sleepygirl2 on September 13, 2011, at 12:11:19
In reply to Re: Scott please... » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by SLS on September 13, 2011, at 11:35:42
I remember the panicked faces of people that day who couldn't reach their loved ones. Where were they? Where were they supposed to be at that moment? Such helplessness and horror. Just not knowing.
I remember the eery mood of silently, slowly moving lines of traffic, trying to get wherever without the use of parkways that had been closed except for emergency access. I remember how my landlady had walked toward home that day, across the bridge, with lots of other people on foot.
I remember the smell, burning and smokey that lingered. I remember a friend who went to help in the aftermath.
I remember hearing the stories about this person and that person, those who were lost and those that were "lucky".
I remember meeting children of firefighters months after. Their dads were gone, just gone. And it was just wrong.
And I remember the pictures.
Again, it's not my tragedy, I didn't lose anyone. But I feel like I'll never forget it. And every face I see in the paper and tv is a person gone too soon, with family and friends that have had to "cope" with the loss.
I see the memorials, I see every name, the metal pieces salvaged from the site. I don't know what part of it I want to hold onto.
Posted by SLS on September 13, 2011, at 12:37:44
In reply to Remembering, posted by sleepygirl2 on September 13, 2011, at 12:11:19
> I remember the panicked faces of people that day who couldn't reach their loved ones. Where were they? Where were they supposed to be at that moment? Such helplessness and horror. Just not knowing.
> I remember the eery mood of silently, slowly moving lines of traffic, trying to get wherever without the use of parkways that had been closed except for emergency access. I remember how my landlady had walked toward home that day, across the bridge, with lots of other people on foot.
> I remember the smell, burning and smokey that lingered. I remember a friend who went to help in the aftermath.
> I remember hearing the stories about this person and that person, those who were lost and those that were "lucky".
> I remember meeting children of firefighters months after. Their dads were gone, just gone. And it was just wrong.
> And I remember the pictures.
> Again, it's not my tragedy, I didn't lose anyone. But I feel like I'll never forget it. And every face I see in the paper and tv is a person gone too soon, with family and friends that have had to "cope" with the loss.
> I see the memorials, I see every name, the metal pieces salvaged from the site. I don't know what part of it I want to hold onto.Thank you for capturing and sharing so much of that day.
I don't want to lose any part of that day nor those that followed. I don't want to lose any part of me that remains human. I don't know how I could possibly decide what to hold on to. It holds on to me.
Have you ever listened to "The Rising" by Bruce Springsteen? After a long absence from my CD player, I took it out and played it on Sunday. It made me feel warm and cold, near and distant, sad and joyous, defeated and inconquerable. I want never to forget.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 13, 2011, at 13:05:11
In reply to Re: Remembering » sleepygirl2, posted by SLS on September 13, 2011, at 12:37:44
Lyrics to "The Rising" album:
http://www.slschofield.com/wtc/springsteen_the_rising/index.html
- Scott
Posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 13, 2011, at 13:56:01
In reply to Re: Scott please... » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by SLS on September 13, 2011, at 11:35:42
> > Scott, I very honestly did not mean *any* disrespect for your experience and feelings. In fact, I posted my reference points *because* I have very deep empathy, more than I think some here seem to understand, for those affected and who lost so many lives on 9/11. I believe these people deserve answers or the horrific tragedy will all be in vain. It is all connected in some way or another.
> > In the aftermath, anyone who questioned things where told to "shut up", and I refer you to the quotation in your signature.
> >
> > Let us hope this next decade will be one of peace.
> > Gracefully under Pressure,
> >
> > Jay
>
>
> Well, Jay, I'm afraid I didn't make my point visible enough for you to see. You were not the target. I did not consider your first post to be an example of graffiti terrorism. However, it did seem misplaced. I think you found some evidence of this contained in the posts of others. Someone went so far as to start a new thread for you, such that you could establish a political topic. You might deliberate your choice of where to submit subsequent posts regarding political reactivity to the events of 9/11/2001. I would not want to see this thread deteriorate any further than it has already by exchanging a series of adversarial off-topic posts to one another.
>
> Meanwhile...
>
> I would be curious to know what emotions you felt on 9/11/2001.
>
> I probably would have enlisted in the military that day were I not too old for admission. I was angry, but felt impotent for being unable to do anything about it. I was hugely frustrated that I had no way of getting into Manhattan so I could look for my father. More than anything, I wanted to help, but my route to the city had been cut off.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
>
>Hello Scott:
Yes, you are quite right. I now think my references may have been a bit misplaced. I guess it is hard for me to not comment, as I am a social scientist, and tend to very much be quite sensitive to the "macro" view. I have digested 1000's of peer-reviewed journal articles; books; thesis and such on the topic. It doesn't make me any kind of "expert", but is where my bias lays in how I look at the entire 9/11 saga, and the thousands of social liberty and military questions that followed.
Still, I am human and needed to reach out and tell you I mean't no offense to your awe-striking story of both luck and resiliance.
I have a few stories to tell about the day 9/11, and my personal reaction. I had just worked a nightshift, but stayed up that morning and flipped on the "Today" show while I checked email. I had just missed when the second plane hit the other tower when I turned on the tv, and seeing the smouldering and holes in the towers, I honestly couldn't believe my eyes. Two of my biggest fears are a)airline crashes and b)high-rise disasters. I immediately went over to my folks house to try and grapple what was going on...see if they heard anything else. I saw, live at the very moment, the first tower fall. I will never forget it, and the sickness and tearfullness that came across me. I had just watched thousands of people die in a few minute period. It honestly felt almost *perverted* watching the tv cameras record the pictures of people jumping from the buildings to their death. I really felt a nausea, and an almost detached sense of what was taking place. I had recently became a Christian, but this just resonated in my head.."God, where are you?" And then the second tower fell..And then the stories of what happened in Pennsylvania and Washington. My questions where of "How could any human being think up and act in such a way...to cause all of this horror..Hell on Earth?". When I saw the pictures of the people in the streets holding out pictures, deep in tears, begging if anyone had saw their husbands, wives, sisters, brothers....I cried right along with them...even strangers on a tv screen. How could a human not...This was actually the most difficult, seeing these people brought to their knees, clutching pictures of their loved ones. Yesterday, I saw the picture of a Father on his knees, putting his arm over his lost son's name on the 9/11 memorial. I have lost a child too, and I could imagine the pure existential, endless Hell-like pain that gripped this man.
Now, I was actually involved, in a very tiny way, in capturing the front-line pictures and film that where taken from the angle of the EMS people and citizens that Sept. 11 late-afternoon, evening. I was co-webmaster of a certain rock-group's website. A small production movie house (Camera Planet) sent us an email asking if they could speak to us on the phone that night. They had been filming most of the day and evening not far from Ground Zero. They had footage (nothing sensationalized, or tasteless) that they wanted to put to the music of the band whose website I was involved in, the band Live, and their song overcome. We couldn't contact the band, but we decided just to give them a *yes*...as we where 100 percent positive the band would have. We where right, and one of the rarest glimpses into the human factor of 9/11, most which tv never captured, was created. The song is "Overcome". Camera Planet put it up on Youtube, and this is a rare glimpse into the day/evening of 9/11 anybody would ever see on film. I kindly ask if you watch it, here: (warning..this is very intense)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfaZvAsFwzI
I went through a period of very bad nightmares around 9/11. They lasted almost two years. Peace is a very deeply, morally important thing to me. It is at the heart of my core, and what happened on 9/11 was the *absolute* antithesis of every little bit of my core values, my DNA.
Sorry for the length, but I thought it important to see me in this light, and that I mean *no harm*.
Thanks,
Jay
Posted by SLS on September 13, 2011, at 14:25:24
In reply to Re: Scott please...(all too..) » SLS, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 13, 2011, at 13:56:01
Thanks, Jay.
I can't begin to compose a post to respond to your wrenching experiences without coming to tears. There is simply too much grief generated by the events of 9/11/2001 to be grappled with alone. Sharing it somehow reconnects one to humanity.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on September 13, 2011, at 14:47:06
In reply to Re: Scott please...(all too..) » SLS, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 13, 2011, at 13:56:01
I went through a period of very bad nightmares around 9/11. They lasted almost two years. Peace is a very deeply, morally important thing to me. It is at the heart of my core, and what happened on 9/11 was the *absolute* antithesis of every little bit of my core values, my DNA.
________________
I had nightmares, too. I am very sorry you did.
Thank you for sharing and being yourself and speaking until you felt that you were heard and sticking to making this conversation very real. I appreciate that very much.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on September 13, 2011, at 19:35:06
In reply to Re: Remembering » sleepygirl2, posted by SLS on September 13, 2011, at 12:37:44
I haven't yet. I'll check it out.
Be well :-)
Posted by Dinah on September 13, 2011, at 22:37:56
In reply to Re: Scott please...(all too..) » SLS, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 13, 2011, at 13:56:01
Thanks Jay, for sharing your reactions. It touched my heart. I know you meant no harm.
Posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 13, 2011, at 23:48:46
In reply to Re: Scott please...(all too..) » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by Dinah on September 13, 2011, at 22:37:56
Thank you all so much, as reading the posts brought me back to what really is important, and brought a very moving feeling to my heart. Scott, I am so, so sorry for the PTSD you have to live with. The Springsteen song you refer to is one of my favourites, ever, as 9/11 showed all of the good in humanity in the face of horror. I know this sounds a bit backwards, but to me that day showed that good, that love triumphs over evil. I think that is such an important message. Every story I have read talks about so much selflessness, from among all of the people in the towers to the EMS rushing in to buildings when everybody was running out. I think it might qualify as the event in history that showed the largest display of goodwill, and yes I would call all of the actions selfless love, ever.
Sincerely,
Jay
Posted by SLS on September 14, 2011, at 8:15:19
In reply to Scott, Dinah, FB 10der ...everybody, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 13, 2011, at 23:48:46
> Thank you all so much, as reading the posts brought me back to what really is important, and brought a very moving feeling to my heart. Scott, I am so, so sorry for the PTSD you have to live with. The Springsteen song you refer to is one of my favourites, ever, as 9/11 showed all of the good in humanity in the face of horror. I know this sounds a bit backwards, but to me that day showed that good, that love triumphs over evil. I think that is such an important message. Every story I have read talks about so much selflessness, from among all of the people in the towers to the EMS rushing in to buildings when everybody was running out. I think it might qualify as the event in history that showed the largest display of goodwill, and yes I would call all of the actions selfless love, ever.
Very well said.I apologize for any misunderstanding.
Thanks.
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.