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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 23 to 47 of 102. Go back in thread:
Posted by johnj1 on November 15, 2010, at 22:15:36
In reply to Re: FYI....babblemail account » fayeroe, posted by fayeroe on November 15, 2010, at 21:55:50
You are correct, it always seems we have a problem like this a few times a year....with the same poster. This type of veiled bullying should not be allowed on babblemail. Each time the person apologizes and runs away, just like when bullies are confronted. NOBODY should have to be subjected to this.
Dr. Bob, please explain if this type of gossip and threats are allowable on the site.
Posted by johnj1 on November 15, 2010, at 22:20:16
In reply to FYI, posted by Maxime on November 13, 2010, at 22:25:34
Hang in there. People have your back. When we don't feel well it can be overwhelming. Since the theme here is being civil all of the time I don't think it should be allowable to be mean via babblemail.
Dr. Bob please give advice.
Posted by fayeroe on November 15, 2010, at 23:00:19
In reply to Re: FYI » fayeroe, posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2010, at 22:10:33
> Of course not. Back when first joined in 2004 we both posted under different names but had the same ISP. Bob said a choice was to be made. Pick his poster name and If I posted sign under his Postername with my postername. My husband decided to just let me post as it was too complicated and would be to others. Hence during a discussion on admin in I think 2004 we had to accept that just one could post and surely couldn't afford two ISP's. He was gnepig and I was Phillipa.
Google his name and you will see posts of his a lot with Alexandra K at the time.
I won't worry with doing a search on Google for his name. I believe you.
I am concerned about the current babblemails that we're discussing today and tonight.
No not upset as I spend most of my time on facebook. And ebaying. I must google a Michael Kors bag now. Phillipa
I hope we can find some resolution tonight and I'm certain that you feel the same. I think that it would be a shame if we let this opportunity pass us by, don't you?
I know that everyone is busy IRL but I'm hopeful, Phillipa, that we can lay this issue to rest tonight.
I will be here.
Posted by glydin50 on November 16, 2010, at 7:28:08
In reply to FYI, posted by Maxime on November 13, 2010, at 22:25:34
Even Gladys Kravitz had an Abner to tell her to stay outta other's personal business... :) I don't know that Dr. Bob will take on the Abner role.
If (and when) a poster takes on the Gladys Kravitz's role and gets that reputation as what they "are" on a board, I am of the belief THAT can be contributory to the death of a site and a source of anger and harm that cause folks to retreat...
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 7:59:12
In reply to Re: FYI, posted by glydin50 on November 16, 2010, at 7:28:08
"I remember Ame Sans Vie, but his name doesn't stick out as great poster - i.e. someone who posted a lot and was a constant part of the PB community. It was a long time ago."
If I had posted, at the request of a grieving mother, who might have been expected to request the comments posted at Babble, and someone made the above comment on the thread that the mother later requested a link to, a mother who very well might think their son was cared about here (not without reason) and that four years was not all that long ago when a son is lost, I might feel very uncomfortable at the idea of providing that link. And I might feel angry at feeling uncomfortable. My husband might feel a bit angry too.
Maxime, perhaps I overidentify with that mother. Certainly it is hard not to so when the younger pictures of Michael stir memories of my own son's vulnerability and innocence. Maybe they do for Phillipa as well, as she has her own son. No one wants to hurt you, but neither does anyone want to see Ame Sans Vie's mother hurt, given the pain she has already endured. I respect and appreciate that you have contacted her and worked things out.
Perhaps, in this instance, the least said the soonest mended. Maxime has appropriately repaired the situation and contacted Michael's mother. Phillipa has thanked her for that.
Why don't we just let this be?
Posted by johnj1 on November 16, 2010, at 8:56:17
In reply to Re: FYI, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 7:59:12
I think you are possibly being overly sensitive as it was not made in a mean spirited context and it wasn't uncivil.....the babblemails were uncivil.
It still doesn't give someone such as Phillipa and her husband to babblemail veiled threats. The point is this is something that happens numerous times a year and THAT is a huge problem. I dislike passive aggressive bullying and think it is uncivil. That is what is occurring here.
Posted by johnj1 on November 16, 2010, at 8:58:00
In reply to Re: FYI, posted by glydin50 on November 16, 2010, at 7:28:08
You hit the nail on the head. And people wonder why good people don't post anymore. Therein lies the answer.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 9:08:43
In reply to Re: FYI » Dinah, posted by johnj1 on November 16, 2010, at 8:56:17
If I understand correctly, Maxime felt accused by Phillipa's babblemail.
If I were Phillipa, in reading this thread I might feel accused of everything from causing self harm to reducing site traffic to threatening another poster.
Is there a moral difference between it happening in private and it happening in public? Is the pain less or greater?
Uncivil babblemails should be forwarded, with headers, to Dr. Bob. The notification function should be used with uncivil posts. It is against site guidelines to take matters into one's own hands, so to speak.
Everyone involved in this thread, so far as I see, is a long time poster and well aware of the site guidelines.
Dr. Bob *will* be around sooner or later. If the posters on this thread feel that having their say is worth any consequences that follow, that's their decision to make. But I hope that when consequences do follow, neither Dr. Bob nor any other poster will be considered to blame.
What any other poster does is their responsibility. What each of us does in response is our *own* responsibility.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 9:10:16
In reply to Re: FYI, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 9:08:43
I might also add that it's against site guidelines to publicly post private communication without the other poster's permission.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 9:14:56
In reply to Re: FYI » Dinah, posted by johnj1 on November 16, 2010, at 8:56:17
> I think you are possibly being overly sensitive...
Sensitive, certainly. If I'm to err, under these circumstances, I'll happily err on the side of "overly".
I will accept responsibility for my sensitivity.
Posted by Maxime on November 16, 2010, at 14:36:38
In reply to Re: FYI, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 7:59:12
Well Phillipa posted the YouTube video and asked to leave comments. I ASSUMED that she meant comments on the YouTube site. I didn't think that she meant ASV mother was going to come to PB to see the comments. Also, I was just posting my POV. I said that I didn't remember him and that was the truth. With all the posters on PB I think it's fully understandable that not everyone is going to remember all the posters.
Posted by Maxime on November 16, 2010, at 14:39:32
In reply to Re: FYI, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 9:08:43
I didn't feel accused by Phillipa's BM. I felt threatened by what she was saying about her husband. I was scared that I was going to get something VERY nasty from him. The only reason Phillipa stopped him from doing it is that she was worried SHE would get in trouble. That's all.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 15:00:16
In reply to Re: FYI » Dinah, posted by Maxime on November 16, 2010, at 14:36:38
I respect that you contacted Ame Sans Vie's mother and everything is ok. I realize that you had no intention of hurting his mother, and did not speak with her as your intended audience. You were speaking to Phillipa about her choice to post the link, if I understood correctly. As far as I'm concerned, it can be forgotten. I'd have never brought it up again, I'd have never even again commented on this thread, had this thread not developed the way it did.
As I said before, you contacted Ame Sans Vie's mother. Phillipa thanked you. Perhaps it's best to let the matter drop.
Or you might wish to forward the babblemail to Dr. Bob at his email address.
Posted by johnj1 on November 16, 2010, at 15:02:36
In reply to Re: FYI, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 9:08:43
"If I were Phillipa, in reading this thread I might feel accused of everything from causing self harm to reducing site traffic to threatening another poster"
People are responsible for their own actions and when they are doing things behind the scenes they should be called out for it.
"Is there a moral difference between it happening in private and it happening in public? Is the pain less or greater?"
Not sure what your point is? Interesting that people will say things in private when they can get away with it isn't it?
"What any other poster does is their responsibility. What each of us does in response is our *own* responsibility."
Not sure what your point is again? So, you are saying to ignore it when someone feels threatened? Reality is people are not allowed to say what they want freely so some resort to babblemail. I don't know about you but one should not be in favor of just keeping ones mouth shut one someone if very uncomfortable.
Again, we see this how many times a year with the same poster and behind the scenes gossip and manipulation?
Posted by johnj1 on November 16, 2010, at 15:04:32
In reply to Re: FYI » Maxime, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 15:00:16
Yes, let's forget about it and plug our ears and hum loudly so it will go away.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 15:05:57
In reply to Re: FYI » Dinah, posted by Maxime on November 16, 2010, at 14:39:32
It is never pleasant to contemplate the possibility of receiving an angry babblemail. It's not unusual to have more than one motive to do something. Whatever Phillipa's motives, she did convince him not to do that. It's not so easy to discourage an angry husband, in my experience.
Any attempt to de-escalate a situation like this is a good thing. For whatever reason.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 15:14:24
In reply to Re: FYI » Dinah, posted by johnj1 on November 16, 2010, at 15:04:32
I'm trying to imagine myself as someone who would prefer to keep my mouth shut and ignore unpleasantness....
Can't quite manage it.
Posted by fayeroe on November 16, 2010, at 15:18:28
In reply to Re: FYI » Maxime, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 15:05:57
> It is never pleasant to contemplate the possibility of receiving an angry babblemail. It's not unusual to have more than one motive to do something. Whatever Phillipa's motives, she did convince him not to do that. It's not so easy to discourage an angry husband, in my experience.
I wonder why Phillipa felt the need to tell Maxime that her husband was seething and so on and so forth? I believe that was done to intimidate. No matter that she "stopped" him. The damage was done. Intimidation? We don't have first hand knowledge that her husband was angry at Maxime.
Dinah, in your years of being on Babble, do you recall any instance where this sort of thing happened with the Phillipa?
Do you have any recollection of people complaining about babblemails and emails ? Anyone at any time.
>
> Any attempt to de-escalate a situation like this is a good thing. For whatever reason.As I said above the damage was done. A verbal assault/threat can be as scary as a physical thread/assault. I know that from personal experience.
I hope this doesn't get swept under the rug.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 17:09:40
In reply to Re: FYI » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on November 16, 2010, at 15:18:28
As a pragmatist, I feel moved to ask...
Does it seem possible that a thread like this might arouse sympathy in a direction other than what is intended? No matter what the reason, is this the best way to achieve your goals?
I know when I read posts, I hear more information about the poster than the subject of the posts.
As I said before, if someone receives an uncivil babblemail, it should be forwarded to Dr. Bob. No one can assume that because they write a babblemail they are safe to say anything. It says right on the babblemail that the civility rules apply. I try never to write any babblemail that I would mind having Dr. Bob review, because I realize that it can be forwarded to him. I would advise everyone to follow that rule.
I have really nothing more to say on the the topic. People will make their own choices to post according to their own values, and their willingness to live with the consequences.
Posted by 10derheart on November 16, 2010, at 17:14:16
In reply to Re: FYI, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 9:08:43
>>Dr. Bob *will* be around sooner or later. If the posters on this thread feel that having their say is worth any consequences that follow, that's their decision to make. But I hope that when consequences do follow, neither Dr. Bob nor any other poster will be considered to blame.
Precisely.
>>What any other poster does is their responsibility. What each of us does in response is our *own* responsibility.
Exactly.
Thanks, Dinah. I feel sad and dismayed reading this thread. I have asked Dr. Bob to look at it.
Posted by fayeroe on November 16, 2010, at 17:16:15
In reply to Re: FYI » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 17:09:40
> As a pragmatist, I feel moved to ask...
>
> Does it seem possible that a thread like this might arouse sympathy in a direction other than what is intended? No matter what the reason, is this the best way to achieve your goals?
>
> I know when I read posts, I hear more information about the poster than the subject of the posts.
>
> As I said before, if someone receives an uncivil babblemail, it should be forwarded to Dr. Bob. No one can assume that because they write a babblemail they are safe to say anything. It says right on the babblemail that the civility rules apply. I try never to write any babblemail that I would mind having Dr. Bob review, because I realize that it can be forwarded to him. I would advise everyone to follow that rule.
>
> I have really nothing more to say on the the topic. People will make their own choices to post according to their own values, and their willingness to live with the consequences.As a realist, I am asking you if you are refusing to answer the question about the "behind the scenes" babblemail controversy? Why can't you answer a simple question? Do you remember this happening before with babblemails?
I really am not in this to make sure anyone gets any sympathy. I could care less about sympathy. I am in this for what is right.
Correct this. It has been going on for years. This is why I am in this.
It is wrong.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 17:39:30
In reply to Re: FYI » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on November 16, 2010, at 17:16:15
I also am concerned with what is right.
I've been the subject of attention like this. I think many of us have.
I don't see how this is the best way or the most effective way to resolve any issue.
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 17:42:42
In reply to Re: FYI » Dinah, posted by 10derheart on November 16, 2010, at 17:14:16
I felt the same way.
I just don't understand people sometimes.
Posted by fayeroe on November 16, 2010, at 17:53:35
In reply to Re: FYI » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 17:39:30
> I also am concerned with what is right.
>
> I've been the subject of attention like this. I think many of us have.
>
> I don't see how this is the best way or the most effective way to resolve any issue.Nothing has been done so far that has put a stop to it. Would you agree with me?
There is an 800 lb elephant in the room and it has been ignored for years.
I don't think anyone is going to make this up. Proof is in their babblemails. Would you call the posters liars?
For the record, I don't dislike Bob.I don't know Bob. I dislike the behavior.
>
Posted by fayeroe on November 16, 2010, at 17:55:00
In reply to Re: FYI » 10derheart, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2010, at 17:42:42
> I felt the same way.
>
> I just don't understand people sometimes.Neither do I.
>
>
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