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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 20:40:44
I have no idea why I was rejected by my date yesterday. I thought everything was going really well.
I am OK, sometimes things just don't work out. If he can't accept me for me, then that is too bad.
It did make me question things about myself for a bit though. Like, maybe I am not attractive or my personality is bad.
But then I thought, attractiveness is relative. I know of one friend who I don't think is attractive who is very much loved by her boyfriend. She must be very attractive in his eyes. They are extremely affectionate towards each other. It is very obvious they are very sexually attracted to one another.
I think maybe I am not very attractive, and that is why guys never ask me out. Or maybe it is my quiet nature. I dunno. Maybe I am unapproachable, but there must be some guys out there who are attracted to me. The trick is in finding one I am also attracted to.
I was a little bit upset for just a short while from the rejection. I'm thinking it though, being rational about things. It helps to post on Babble.
I will move on.
Posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 20:55:32
In reply to Unattractive people find partners too right?, posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 20:40:44
I am writing a profile and I need three adjectives that describe me.
Posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 21:21:24
In reply to Unattractive people find partners too right?, posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 20:40:44
"I think maybe I am not very attractive, and that is why guys never ask me out. Or..."
I doubt that. "Chemistry" presents, overwhelms, whether one party is relatively attractive or not. I have dated some really "hot" guys and some not so hot guys. Personality, mutual interests, compatibilty, disposition/mannersisms that emit from body language, etc., are much more exciting and important than looks alone.....Although looks can add utility to a relationship...for sure.
Having the unconscious disposition "I am not ready to date; I am insecure" affects all prospects, imo...Men will sense that. Like Kath or someone else said, I think, desperateness...it's usually when one is not actively looking that one finds their 'soul mate".
Either way, someone as emotionally unstable as yourself, who presents strong borderline tendancies, can hurt yourself and the people you date. I wouldn't be so naive to claim you are innocent and harmless, although you appear that way on the forum. You claim to talk to your therapist/PDoc about it, but in the same sentenance, you comment you are only seeking "friends". You may be putting youself in the position to hurt yourself or someone else; you have issues that need addressed. We all do.. However, your emotional instabilty, unfortunatley, puts you and others at greater risk than those who do not have such borderline issues. Those issues can cause alot of pain to yourself and others.
You are free to do what you want. I, however, hope I am not friends with anyone you date. It's a recipe for disaster. Your Mom says one thing; you say another; your PDoc/therapist yet another. think about it. Why do I care? I don't want you to hurt other people in your process of "self-discovery". You are not ready for a realtionship of any sort-period. Many of us are not. It's not you; it's the disorder that results from your childhood experiences. Your attachment issues, etc. You DO have the abiltiy to hurt others, in addition to yourself, due to your state of mind that is so obvious from your postings here. Again, you are free to do what you want, but reconsider whether or not what you are doing is emotionally healtly for you right now. Or is healthy for the other people you involve in your quest.
Posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 21:40:46
In reply to Re: Unattractive people find partners too right?, posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 21:21:24
I have improved vastly I think. Why would you say I hurt people?
It hurts me to hear you say that.
Posted by Deputy Dinah on June 7, 2009, at 21:47:10
In reply to Re: Unattractive people find partners too right?, posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 21:21:24
> Either way, someone as emotionally unstable as yourself, who presents strong borderline tendancies, can hurt yourself and the people you date.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 21:52:56
In reply to What makes me undatable?, posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 21:40:46
Deneb, I'm sorry-it's not you, per say..but your borderline tendancies are strong. In no way do I think you set out to hurt people (intentionally); however, your borderline tendancies show through, and cannot be ignored when it comes to others.
Those aspects can hurt people, although you don't mean to do it. I only know this from reading and experience; I"m not an expert. I see, however, how it can happen in your case..And you tell your PDoc you are only seeking 'friends'; it's misleading, unless that's not what you meant in your posts.
I've had expeiences where I've dated emotionally unstable people, and it has hurt me. It has hurt me a great deal. That doesn't mean your inentions are to hurt others--I know you don't want to do that. It's the borderline tendancies that take over. You seem to need to work on that more, that's all.I'm sorry if anything I said was hurtful; I am just trying to be honest. It's easier to be naive and "go with the status quo". Sometimes easier is not better--for all parties involved.
Posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 21:58:27
In reply to Re: What makes me undatable?, posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 21:52:56
I am really working on my borderline tendances. I would like to improve myself. Can you tell my specifically what I should do to help myself and others?
Yes you hurt me a great deal Garnet, but I understand where you are coming from and I forgive you. I am hurt, but I am OK. I think that shows emotional stability doesn't it?
The biggest problem I find with myself is that I am emotionally unavailable, not unstable.
I don't tend to attach to people very well.
Posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 22:08:41
In reply to Re: What makes me undatable?, posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 21:52:56
I am very honest with my pdoc. I am confused as to what I want and pdoc knows this. On the one hand I see where my parents are coming from, on the other hand I am happy being single.
I think I am looking for a relationship with no sex. I am very open and honest so I will tell whoever dates me that.
I also say in my profile that I am not very good at relationships and I need a really patient guy who doesn't lose his cool.
I think there is someone for everyone, even the emotionally unstable.
I actually think I am very stable right now. Sure I write about fears and things, but they never see reality now.
I would really like to know where you think I need to improve because I am always looking to improve myself.
Posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 22:13:16
In reply to I don't want to hurt people, posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 21:58:27
Well yeah, Deneb...the inabilty to attach to peopel can be hurtful to them, regardless of their intent/your intent to be a nice person. I realize it is not your intention-to not attach to people; you really cannot help it. The problem arises based upon your issues in relation to conventional social standards, that you are "giving back", or reciprocating relationship needs. When you start dating someone, they expect just a bit of reciprocation. See where I'm getting at? If you are unstable, in a sense, to prohibit your abilty to provide this, it may be hurtful to the other person. Ir you realize--or investigate-thatrelatiohships are mutual, maybe you can better grasp this concept.
If you have the inabilty to attach to others-others who may become attached to you--do you not see the ramifications?
I would be doing you a disservice if I went around and said "hey, Deneb, wonderful you are dating-keep it up".
Sometimes honesty trumps all. You can be the decider on that one...
Posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 22:25:35
In reply to Re: I don't want to hurt people, posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 22:13:16
I think I can learn to attach to the right person. In the past I was unable to attach, but I don't know if that is still the case now. My pdoc says I don't even meet criteria for borderline personality anymore.
How will I know if I don't try? Should I just never try then? I see others having very fulfilling relationships and I think I deserve that too.
Also, I do reciprocate. I have learned to do that. Just ask my friends, especially in chat. I am often there for people even when they can't be there for me.
I think you need to know me better to make judgement on me.
Posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 22:34:33
In reply to Are you saying I should be alone for life?, posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 22:25:35
Yes, you are right-I should not make judement of you (I hope i wasn't). What you said is a fact, your inability for attachmetn--in relation to your desire to be healthy..
YOu have made considerable progress-finding the why's and hows...of your current disposition.
It's just sometimes I can't help but think you need more intensive terapy than your PDoc provides...but you are a remarkable person for setting out to find you way-- I hope you make the best of it...
Posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 22:56:48
In reply to Re: Are you saying I should be alone for life?, posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 22:34:33
I am making the best of it. :)
I am quite happy these days.
I think it would be good to find someone in real life who is also unable to attach. (Although I guess it might get difficult if I found out I do attach). Right now I am not attached to anyone except Dr. Bob. I think it might be neat to find someone who is detached like Dr. Bob. Maybe I am attracted to detachment, like with my date yesterday. He was not into me and I was attracted.
I think there is someone for everyone, no matter how "messed up" they are. LOL
Posted by Tabitha on June 7, 2009, at 23:59:07
In reply to Re: Are you saying I should be alone for life? » garnet71, posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 22:56:48
> I think there is someone for everyone, no matter how "messed up" they are. LOL
>
>I have to agree with you, Deneb. There are all kinds of couples out there, and all kinds of people in the dating market.
Posted by Sigismund on June 8, 2009, at 0:38:10
In reply to What makes me undatable?, posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 21:40:46
>I have improved vastly I think.
It's true.
Posted by Dinah on June 8, 2009, at 0:51:21
In reply to Are you saying I should be alone for life?, posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 22:25:35
Deneb, I'm not so afraid of you hurting others as I am of others hurting you. I've remember the guy from work you were seeing for a while, and you went way out of your way to be sensitive to his feelings and understanding.
I wouldn't worry so much about your emotional availability. Things like degree of desire for closeness or sex aren't good or bad by themselves. They're only good or bad if the two people in a relationship don't have a good match. As long as you are with someone who desires a similar degree of closeness that you do, the two of you will be far happier than would people who are not well matched.
There's no hurry. Take it slow and wait for something to develop. It sounds as if there's a lot of pressure to judge each other in internet dating. I think it would be a lot more fun to meet someone in a less pressured environment and get to know them as a friend first.
But that's admittedly old fashioned me.
Hold out for someone you like and genuinely respect. Marriage is a lifetime proposition and affects not just you and your husband, but your children too. Find a guy you think is worthy of those future children, and of you.
Posted by SLS on June 8, 2009, at 6:37:59
In reply to Unattractive people find partners too right?, posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 20:40:44
> Unattractive people find partners too right?
Yes.
Attractive or unattractive, if it helps you to feel secure in your aspirations to find a mate, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
You said some pretty health things that render the above paragraph as having little value.
You said:
----------------------------------------------
"I have no idea why I was rejected by my date yesterday. I thought everything was going really well.I am OK, sometimes things just don't work out. If he can't accept me for me, then that is too bad.
It did make me question things about myself for a bit though. Like, maybe I am not attractive or my personality is bad.
But then I thought, attractiveness is relative. I know of one friend who I don't think is attractive who is very much loved by her boyfriend. She must be very attractive in his eyes. They are extremely affectionate towards each other. It is very obvious they are very sexually attracted to one another.
I think maybe I am not very attractive, and that is why guys never ask me out. Or maybe it is my quiet nature. I dunno. Maybe I am unapproachable, but there must be some guys out there who are attracted to me. The trick is in finding one I am also attracted to.
I was a little bit upset for just a short while from the rejection. I'm thinking it though, being rational about things. It helps to post on Babble.
I will move on."
-------------------------------------------------
Holy crap. I am pleasantly surprised.I would only add:
Yup to all of it. Very healthy
:-)
Oh yes, one more thing. I was not as emotionally mature at your age. If you do experience mood and behavioral instability, you do a good job of coping and working with it. About the only thing I would suggest to you - and I could be wrong - is that you perhaps relax and slow down a bit with your dating activity. It might make it easier and healthier to process what what happens on a date into a learning experience. You will become stronger and more stable - if stability is even an issue.
Impressive.
Continue to grow.
Be well.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2009, at 11:02:20
In reply to Re: Unattractive people find partners too right? » Deneb, posted by SLS on June 8, 2009, at 6:37:59
Deneb since I've been here I've watched you grown into someone who could not fathom going to a babble party. You've gone to quite a few which I could never do. You are a very well love person on babble. And I bet in real life also or why would so many take an interest in you? Remember also a long time ago the pics of yourself you posted? You've grown into a very attractive female. Don't sell yourself short. When the time is right that person will appear. Love Phillipa
Posted by Kath on June 9, 2009, at 12:20:06
In reply to What makes me undatable?, posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 21:40:46
> I have improved vastly I think. Why would you say I hurt people?
>
> It hurts me to hear you say that.
Dear Deneb,I certainly have never seen you as hurting anybody. To me it's the furthest thing away from "Deneb" that I can think of.
It can happen with any of us, that another person can be inadvertently hurt as a result of a relationship that we begin, or that we're in. I think that human beings are in a constant state of sorting things out; learning about themselves; learning about others, etc and sometimes in the process, someone could get hurt!
Love, Kath
Posted by Kath on June 9, 2009, at 12:25:50
In reply to Re: What makes me undatable? » Deneb, posted by Sigismund on June 8, 2009, at 0:38:10
> >I have improved vastly I think.
>
> It's true.I think you've improved vastly also!! Kath
Posted by Kath on June 9, 2009, at 12:28:05
In reply to Re: Are you saying I should be alone for life?, posted by Dinah on June 8, 2009, at 0:51:21
> Deneb, I'm not so afraid of you hurting others as I am of others hurting you. I've remember the guy from work you were seeing for a while, and you went way out of your way to be sensitive to his feelings and understanding.
>
> I wouldn't worry so much about your emotional availability. Things like degree of desire for closeness or sex aren't good or bad by themselves. They're only good or bad if the two people in a relationship don't have a good match. As long as you are with someone who desires a similar degree of closeness that you do, the two of you will be far happier than would people who are not well matched.
>
> There's no hurry. Take it slow and wait for something to develop. It sounds as if there's a lot of pressure to judge each other in internet dating. I think it would be a lot more fun to meet someone in a less pressured environment and get to know them as a friend first.
>
> But that's admittedly old fashioned me.
>
> Hold out for someone you like and genuinely respect. Marriage is a lifetime proposition and affects not just you and your husband, but your children too. Find a guy you think is worthy of those future children, and of you.
~ ~ ~ Deneb - I agree with everything Dinah said.:-) Kath
Posted by Kath on June 9, 2009, at 12:31:03
In reply to Re: Are you saying I should be alone for life? » garnet71, posted by Deneb on June 7, 2009, at 22:56:48
Deneb - I agree with what Scott & Phillipa said also.
love, Kath
Posted by fayeroe on June 10, 2009, at 12:30:11
In reply to Re: Unattractive people find partners too right?, posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 21:21:24
~~~ You are free to do what you want. I, however, hope I am not friends with anyone you date. It's a recipe for disaster. Your Mom says one thing; you say another; your PDoc/therapist yet another. think about it. Why do I care? I don't want you to hurt other people in your process of "self-discovery". You are not ready for a realtionship of any sort-period. Many of us are not. It's not you; it's the disorder that results from your childhood experiences. Your attachment issues, etc. You DO have the abiltiy to hurt others, in addition to yourself, due to your state of mind that is so obvious from your postings here. Again, you are free to do what you want, but reconsider whether or not what you are doing is emotionally healtly for you right now. Or is healthy for the other people you involve in your quest.~~~
OMG!!!
Posted by fayeroe on June 10, 2009, at 12:32:06
In reply to Re: I don't want to hurt people, posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 22:13:16
> Well yeah, Deneb...the inabilty to attach to peopel can be hurtful to them, regardless of their intent/your intent to be a nice person. I realize it is not your intention-to not attach to people; you really cannot help it. The problem arises based upon your issues in relation to conventional social standards, that you are "giving back", or reciprocating relationship needs. When you start dating someone, they expect just a bit of reciprocation. See where I'm getting at? If you are unstable, in a sense, to prohibit your abilty to provide this, it may be hurtful to the other person. Ir you realize--or investigate-thatrelatiohships are mutual, maybe you can better grasp this concept.
>
> If you have the inabilty to attach to others-others who may become attached to you--do you not see the ramifications?
>
> I would be doing you a disservice if I went around and said "hey, Deneb, wonderful you are dating-keep it up".
>
> Sometimes honesty trumps all. You can be the decider on that one...OMG # 2!!!
Posted by Sigismund on June 12, 2009, at 18:28:32
In reply to Re: Unattractive people find partners too right? » garnet71, posted by fayeroe on June 10, 2009, at 12:30:11
I mean, this is life, not something out of the DSM. Oh my goodness. Of course people get hurt, and of course we hurt others. That is the human condition, and it can be leavened with virtue and grace, which we might aspire to.
Posted by garnet71 on June 14, 2009, at 18:50:40
In reply to OMG, posted by Sigismund on June 12, 2009, at 18:28:32
I don't see the point of all the "OMG's" except to antagonize a person and/or situation, which would not be civil.
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