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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 2:17:37
In reply to I want to die :-(, posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 1:58:23
I think my family is ashamed of me. I'm the loser of the family. My sister has a biochem degree and is getting her masters.
Meanwhile I don't have any degree. It's all because I'm lazy. All I have to do is study, instead I choose to procrastinate. I'm just lazy. My sister is right. All my problems are because I'm lazy.
-----
I just thought of taking all my Celexa, but that's stupid. It probably won't do anything and then I'll just need to get more Celexa.
Oops, I just found out I forgot to take meds yesterday. Wow, can one missed day bring me down?
Posted by Michael83 on February 14, 2008, at 6:12:13
In reply to Re: I want to die :-(, posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 2:17:37
Deneb, you cannot make such a broad generalization about yourself (on being lazy). Not being able to work because you're depressed isn't called laziness! That's not your fault.
>>>but I've really ruined my life.
Aren't you only like 25 or something!??
If you would examine the average person in this world, the way they behave and how little they seem to care about others, you'd find that you're by FAR one of the "better" people in this world.
PLEASE try to feel better. There's not one person in the world who would want you gone.
Having a degree does not make a person successful. Bill Gates doesn't have a college degree. A degree is just job training, it doesn't make you a "good" or "bad" person.
Posted by zazenducke on February 14, 2008, at 6:55:15
In reply to Re: I want to die :-(, posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 2:17:37
Deneb
Maybe you could get a summer job with the park service. In the US anyway lots of those jobs come with room and board so you could get away from your family and work in a nice place if you like the outdoors.
You're not lazy. Maybe you need to find a different dream. Maybe instead of wanting to die you really want to live passionately instead of being stifled trying to do what you think your family wants you to do.
> I think my family is ashamed of me. I'm the loser of the family. My sister has a biochem degree and is getting her masters.
>
> Meanwhile I don't have any degree. It's all because I'm lazy. All I have to do is study, instead I choose to procrastinate. I'm just lazy. My sister is right. All my problems are because I'm lazy.
>
> -----
>
> I just thought of taking all my Celexa, but that's stupid. It probably won't do anything and then I'll just need to get more Celexa.
>
> Oops, I just found out I forgot to take meds yesterday. Wow, can one missed day bring me down?
Posted by Kath on February 14, 2008, at 8:45:37
In reply to Re: I want to die :-(, posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 2:17:37
Hi Sweetie - one day missed could affect me when I was taking Celexa.
Hey Deneb,
If you ARE lazy guess what.........that would NOT BE THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD. (((you)))
Vision this:
A big banner going across the news on TV - Bulletin: Serious issue: Deneb is lazy!
Hmmmmmmmmmmm I think not!!!!
And you're young enough that you have NOT ruined your life hunny. I remember reading that Dr. Seuss had to go to numerous publishers before anyone would publish his books! I don't know how old he was by then. You have lots of time.
I'm sorry you're feeling so awful. Hopefully you'll be better by now than you were when you posted.
I'm sorry your family is not supportive.
Maybe in the terms of the "universe" you're doing them a favour by taking on the role of the one they can be disapproving of. You're saving someone else from being that person. I'm sorry that they have expectations of you instead of just lovingly supporting you as you find your way through life.
I think that's the view I & most of your friends here have. That you're dealing with your life, finding your way. You're wise & insightful. We value that. Perhaps your family doesn't value the areas that you're really strong in. Maybe it's a cultural thing.
Anyway, I love you & am here for you. Could you call your pdoc?
MUCH LOVE, Kath
Posted by Kath on February 14, 2008, at 8:49:59
In reply to Re: I want to die :-( » Deneb, posted by zazenducke on February 14, 2008, at 6:55:15
Deneb - I agree with the above posters.
Great idea - contact Ontario Provincial Parks & gind out. They DO have young people working there & they live at the park....try to get into Killbear Prov. Pk if you can - it rocks! (plus I could visit you in June)
Deneb, guess what:
a person can have a degree. SO - it means they have a degree. It's only one part of them.
A person with a degree can have other parts to them that are admirable or that aren't admirable.
You don't have a degree. You night never have a degree. BUT you are ALREADY kind, caring, sensitive, loving, gentle, wise, insightful
That's just the Start of the list!!! Please think carefully about that ok?
luv ya, gotta run, Kath
Posted by Dinah on February 14, 2008, at 9:34:41
In reply to I want to die :-(, posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 1:58:23
I take you seriously. I can hear how bad you feel now. And I know how frustrating it is when people don't get how really really bad you feel.
I tend to get suicidal thoughts when I'm feeling trapped. And even more so when I'm feeling trapped and angry. And I can see how you could feel trapped and angry with your mom and your sister right now. And how you want what they're doing to stop.
But I usually find that there is a way out of the trap. You see your pdoc again when? Tuesday? Mightn't it be best to wait until you see her before doing anything? Are you sure she won't take phone calls? It's a work day. Why don't you call her office? Or if you really don't feel you can do that, please go the hospital.
Posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2008, at 10:45:10
In reply to I don't want you to die » Deneb, posted by Dinah on February 14, 2008, at 9:34:41
Deneb yes excellent information also I know what feeling trapped is like not nice at all and feeling helpless I sence in you call for help. I hope you take your celexa and call the pdoc or as Dinah said go to the hospital. Are you still on resperidol? Might that help? Love Phillipa a lot of people care about you.
Posted by Racer on February 14, 2008, at 11:50:04
In reply to I want to die :-(, posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 1:58:23
>
> Probably people don't take me seriously anymore. I always say I'm going to kill myself. I don't even know when I'm serious. All I know is I feel bad NOW, and I want to be dead.Deneb, when you say that you want to die, I take you seriously -- I don't think you are going to kill yourself, but I do take it seriously that you feel awful, and that matters to me. I take it seriously that you're in a lot of pain, and that matters to me. If I could wave a magic wand, I would, but since I can't, all I have to offer you are my words. I wish they were enough, but I know they're not.
I agree with Dinah -- I, too, feel as though I want to end my life when I feel so trapped and angry, and that's what it sounds like to me when you describe what's going on for you. You sound trapped, angry, and a bit confused. You also sound as though you really need someone to care about you. Many people here care about you, and I would bet that others in your real life care about you, too. It's just too bad that your family isn't showing their love to you in a way that's helpful to you. (<< Someone nominate me for the Understatement Award?)
Kath also had a point -- families often pick one person to be the scapegoat, and it sounds as though you've been elected in your family. It's a terrible place to be, and I'll bet they don't realize what they're doing, but that doesn't help you much, does it? Guess what? The only part of your family dynamics that I care about is how *you* feel, and right now it looks as though you're in a lot of pain because of it. I'm very sorry about that.
You have worth.
It doesn't take a degree to have worth. It doesn't take a huge number on a pay check to have worth. You don't have to break a sweat to have worth. You, as yourself, warts and all, have worth. You have as much worth as your sister, your mother, the Prime Minister, or Celine Dion. You are worthy. You wanna know what I think the benefit of finishing your degree would be? I think you'd feel good that you finished it. That's about the only real benefit I can think of. Sure, it would make it easier to find a job, but there are jobs out there that don't require degrees.
And I very much doubt that finishing your degree would make any difference in the way your sister treats you.
Deneb, what is your degree in? Why did you choose that subject? Is it something you really feel passionate about? Or is it something you think you should be studying? Is it something that someone else picked out for you? That's just a question I think you'd do well to ask yourself. Maybe it's something to discuss with your pdoc, too.
(That's just a question that occurred to me while I read your post.)
Zazenducke had a good idea, too, and I think it's worth your while to look into it. ANYTHING that got you out of your current environment for a while would probably be a good thing for you.
And here's one last thought on the whole family dynamics thing: you can't change anyone else. What you can do, though, is change the way you react to them -- and that, in turn, will change the dynamics. It's hard, because they're almost certain to push harder to get the expected response, so you have a harder time of it just when you're most fragile, but it's worth it. I strongly recommend talking to your pdoc about ways to cut off the routine with your sister and your mother. Learn a few phrases that you can use to stop engaging. "Thank you for caring. I don't choose to discuss that with you." That's one that might help. "I've said I don't care to discuss that with you. Please respect my wishes." Phrases like that, which acknowledge their caring intent -- which we assume, because we're kind and generous that way ;-) -- and ask for better behavior from them; phrases which you can repeat until they leave off. Your pdoc will likely be very helpful with that.
Also, and this is very personal and I hope you're not offended by this idea, I get the feeling that you've learned not to stand up for yourself, and as a result you turn your anger at them towards yourself; that you flagellate yourself with their accusations. That's a very good habit to get over -- it's also very hard. Maybe looking at why you accuse yourself, over and over, of all the things they accuse you of, and never seem to look at their behavior? It's so painful to see you accusing yourself of laziness, and never acknowledging their unkindness towards you. Yes, I think they love you, I think they really think they're helping you, but their intentions aren't the point: their actions are the point. Regardless of their intentions, Deneb, they're being unkind to you.
I'm sorry you're feeling so bad, Deneb, and I wish I could help. Best I can do is tell you that I take you seriously, and I take your pain seriously. You're not invisible, you have great worth, and you deserve better than to feel this bad.
(And I should be working right now, rather than posting, so you might feel special right now. I took the time away from work I really should be doing, because I thought you were worth my time. I thought trying to offer you support and caring was a worthy use of my time.)
(And now back to my Babble Break...)
Posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 12:04:58
In reply to I take you seriously (very, very long post) » Deneb, posted by Racer on February 14, 2008, at 11:50:04
Thanks for taking the time to write to me Racer. You're very caring.
Rationally I know I have worth even if I don't get my degree. I don't look down on other people for not having degrees. It's just I feel like my family requires me to have a degree. I'm close to finishing and my Mom tells me I've wasted a lot of money if I don't get my degree. I tell her it wasn't a waste of money because I learned from my classes, but she thinks otherwise.
I've tried not engaging with my sister, but she just keeps talking on and on. I'll try the method you suggested.
I feel a little better now, but I still feel trapped. If my family leaves me alone I think I'll feel better.
Posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 12:08:50
In reply to I don't want you to die » Deneb, posted by Dinah on February 14, 2008, at 9:34:41
Thanks for writing to me Dinah.
Right now I'm not in any danger. The impulsiveness comes and goes. I'm OK for now. I just need to make sure I don't have an lethal means that are easily accessible in the house. When I feel bad I tend not to think well.
Right now I don't have a need to die. I still feel trapped, but it's just easier to avoid thinking about my problems for now.
Posted by texaschic on February 14, 2008, at 12:21:48
In reply to Re: I don't want you to die, posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 12:08:50
I can't add anything better than what the others have said. Just know I care about you and believe in you.
-T
Posted by Racer on February 14, 2008, at 13:42:20
In reply to Re: I take you seriously (very, very long post), posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 12:04:58
> Thanks for taking the time to write to me Racer.
You're welcome.
>
>It's just I feel like my family requires me to have a degree.Um...
Do I have to say anything, or can you say it for me? I'll bet you can figure out exactly what I'd say, and it's better if you say it to yourself, anyway.
>
> I've tried not engaging with my sister, but she just keeps talking on and on.Yep, that's exactly what I've faced with various members of my family. That's why it's so hard to learn how to maintain your boundaries -- it's because doing so almost always involves others who aren't respecting your boundaries.
Here's what happened with my aunt:
For many years, it's been Accepted Fact that I'm a lousy housekeeper. I'm "messy." Now, it's not untrue -- particularly when I'm depressed, things fall apart fast. It doesn't matter how clean my house is or is not, my aunt makes comments about what a lousy housekeeper I am. For years, I tried to "stand up for myself" by saying things like, "things fall apart when I'm depressed," or something like that. Once she went into my husband's bathroom, which had the water turned off to it because of plumbing problems, turned on the water to use it, then complained it was a mess. I told her it was his bathroom, and his responsibility to clean it, and she had the unmitigated nerve to tell me I should clean it anyway! Even when I said that it was between me and my husband, and none of her business to inject herself into our relationship, she kept telling me that I was at fault for not going in and cleaning his bathroom. That is an example of what lack of respect for someone else's boundaries might look like.
I finally found the answer for me: she came in the front door, on a visit to us, and started complaining about my housekeeping. I told her, "I'm glad to see you, and if you're here to visit me, you're welcome. If you're here to criticize my housekeeping, you can leave right now." She, of course, started to tell me that I "needed to hear it," that it was "for my own good," etc. And I just stood up, grabbed her suitcase, and started walking her to the door, telling her again, "If you're here to criticize my housekeeping, you can leave."
She hasn't said a word about it since.
It took me until I was nearly 40 to do that, Deneb. You have a head start on me, because you recognize the problem earlier than I did. I hope you can find a way to maintain your boundaries that works for you.
>
> I feel a little better now, but I still feel trapped. If my family leaves me alone I think I'll feel better.
>
>Wouldn't it be nice if life worked that way? Sad news, though: it doesn't. What I've discovered in my own life is that it works the other way 'round: I feel better, because I've found a way to MAKE my family leave me alone. Sadly, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance: I have to KEEP ON maintaining my boundaries with my family, in little ways as well as big ones, but the prize is that I feel a lot better when I am with them, because I know that I am not powerless.
It's hard as hell, Deneb -- I won't lie to you about that, this is not something easy to do, and it often seems as though it would be easier to lie down and die than to keep doing it. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy, though, is it? It's the effort that makes something worthwhile.
Best luck to you, and I wish you strength, too.
Posted by Racer on February 14, 2008, at 13:50:59
In reply to Re: I don't want you to die, posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 12:08:50
You know what worries me sometimes on your behalf? There have been times in my life when I've felt suicidal, and felt as though no one would take me serious about it. Sometimes it got to where I felt as though I *had to* commit suicide, that I had to commit myself to doing so, because otherwise people wouldn't ever take me seriously again.
I worry that you'll feel as though you have to "show us" that you're serious by doing something to hurt yourself, and you'll hurt yourself much more than you plan to.
Deneb -- I've told you this before, and I hope you'll remember it: it matters that you hurt, that you feel bad, and I think everyone here takes that seriously EVEN IF YOU DON'T SAY YOU WANT TO DIE. It's enough that you hurt, and it's serious enough just to say that you hurt. You don't ever have to hurt yourself to be taken seriously.
By the way, I've always kinda thought you were taught that your hurts didn't matter; that no one validated your feelings, so you learned to exaggerate them in hopes they'd be taken seriously. If there's any truth to that, I think it's a real shame. ALL children deserve better than that.
Actually, that's a trigger for me, you know. I can't have children, and I hear about parents -- people who are fortunate enough to have what I most wanted in life -- who don't even really see their children, who cause this much pain to their children, and it just feels so unfair to me. I wish I could have had a daughter like you, Deneb. Someone I could have protected from that sort of abuse. And I wish you'd had someone who protected you from it.
Posted by Justherself54 on February 14, 2008, at 15:45:10
In reply to One last thing ** trigger** (suicide talk) » Deneb, posted by Racer on February 14, 2008, at 13:50:59
I wish your parents could be more supportive of you Deneb..it sounds like education is at the top of what they expect from their children..as Racer said, please find something you are passionate about and go in that direction, whether a degree is involved or not..because you'll never get up in the morning and hate the job you're going to.
I've seen families where one child is "picked on"..I don't think the parents even realize what damage is done and the scars that are left behind
In my worst struggles when there has been dissent, whether it's family issues or a broken heart I have a little saying I repeat over and over and that is "I'm worth more than this". It's my "battle cry". When someone is being unkind or unfair, I keep repeating it in my mind..somehow it helps me to stand up for myself..it's such a small saying, but there is empowerment in those 5 little words..
As a single mother, I was horrified when my daughter became pregnant right after she graduated..the baby's father deserted her..she didn't go to university.. that's the path she chose..but she gave me something that to me is worth more than 10 degrees, 3 beautiful grandchildren and a son-in-law that I adore..
I just feel so bad for you I just want to take you home and smother you with mothering!
Feel better Deneb and I know you are worth more than this..
Posted by Kath on February 14, 2008, at 16:00:12
In reply to Re: I don't want you to die, posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 12:08:50
Hi Deneb,
There's been much wisdom in what everyone has said to you, especially Racer.
If any of it really 'speaks' to you, and if you have a printer, perhaps you could print it & keep it in your purse, or knapsack, or wherever, to refer to it if you feel awful.
I want you to know that I would be proud to have you as my daugher. I would be proud of you JUST the way you are, without you having to do ANYthing else in life.
You know the problems with my son's big-time drug use for years? And his at-times homelessness, & unfinished high school & numerous times joblessness etc? Well guess what - I am proud of him. I am proud of the PERSON he IS. Not what he has or hasn't done. Just who he is - sensitive, so kind, gentle, loving, wise, etc. And in that same way, even though I've never met you in person Deneb, I can tell important things about you that are wonderful things!
You said: If my family leaves me alone I think I'll feel better.
I hope you re-read what Racer said about that whole matter. I think she's very right about this: When we start to change the 'dance' that we've been doing with people & they are jolted out of the old expected pattern, they often try very hard to get us to act like we used to.
Think of walking along a log. If something starts to shift, we'll try VERY hard to maintain our balance.
Think of actually dancing with someone else (dancing where people hold each other). If both people are used to moving a certain way & then one changes it - the other person is going to be off the balance that they're used to! They will probably try like heck to get things back to what they're used to & what they're comfortable with.
The phrases Racer mentioned are great. And you WILL have to repeat them. It can sometimes feel easier to slightly change them when you repeat them. With your sister, it might be necessary to do something physical as well as the words. Just like Racer physically picked up her aunt's suitcase.
Since you have no control over your sister, if she keeps on at you, while you're trying to set healthy boundaries for yourself with her, you might have to actually remove yourself from her presence.
For example, after saying your words a few times, repeat it & then leave the room - go to a different part of the house, or go to where your parents are (if your sister acts better around them), or get your coat & go out for a little walk. I think it's important to NOT do this in an angry way. Maybe with, "I need to be treated with respect. I've said I'm not prepared to discuss this (sister's name)" then (only if you feel like it) smile, turn & leave her presence. You might have to repeat this step too. For ex she might follow you out of the room. I suspect you might have to leave the house, but it would be a nice surprise if you didn't.
Also Deneb, it doesn't matter if she reads all this stuff. It doesn't matter if she knows what you are doing. You can still do it.
I forgot to mention befrore, that to me someone who is lazy wouldn't go to work AND school!! Or even ONE of those things, let alone both!! :-)
I am keeping you in my thoughts. I'll be 61 on Tuesday & it's only been in the past 10-15 years that I've known of and learned these 'assertive' skills. As Racer said, Deneb, you're getting an amazing head start.
Baby steps, too. Bit by bit you can try these things. Bit by bit they will become more automatic & comfortable.
I send you BIG-MUCH love (as one of my kids used to say; can't remember which one!) Kath
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on February 15, 2008, at 6:22:14
In reply to I want to die :-(, posted by Deneb on February 14, 2008, at 1:58:23
Deneb*
I wish you weren't hurting. Can you call pdoc and tell her how you're feeling? maybe you can increase your AD, because you sound so hopeless.You can and will feel better.
Degrees aren't worth dying for. learned that one the hard way
(((((((((deneb))))))))))
-Ll
Posted by Fivefires on February 15, 2008, at 13:44:22
In reply to One last thing ** trigger** (suicide talk) » Deneb, posted by Racer on February 14, 2008, at 13:50:59
Ditto to that Racer ...
I hope saying I understand your pain is helpful Deneb. You and I seem to be strangers passing in the dark, but I do feel close to you.
5f
Posted by Angela2 on February 15, 2008, at 18:38:12
In reply to (((((((((((deneb))))))))))))) » Deneb, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on February 15, 2008, at 6:22:14
Deneb, you are a good person and I hope you are feeling better or have at least found a way to get out of the house? I hope you come to chat tonight or sometime soon. I'm glad you posted here and got some thoughtful honest responses.
*hugs Deneb*Angela
Posted by Deneb on February 16, 2008, at 17:04:18
In reply to Re: I want to die :-( » Deneb, posted by Michael83 on February 14, 2008, at 6:12:13
You're right Michael, I shouldn't be labeling myself lazy. I started telling my pdoc that I was childish and immature because I needed structure to get things done, then she told me calling myself names didn't help things.
There are just some things I'm not very good at doing. I have certain weaknesses. I have to learn to work with them.
Posted by Deneb on February 16, 2008, at 17:07:25
In reply to Re: I want to die :-( » Deneb, posted by zazenducke on February 14, 2008, at 6:55:15
Thanks for the idea Zazenducke. I like my current job, it has a good benefits package. I'm not sure if I would get benefits if I worked for park services.
I wonder how much they make though? I will check them out.
Posted by Deneb on February 16, 2008, at 17:11:24
In reply to Re: I want to die :-( » Deneb, posted by Kath on February 14, 2008, at 8:45:37
Thanks for the message Kath! I'm feeling a lot better now. There's no need to call pdoc. I see her every week, so I will just wait until then.
I'm actually not doing that badly. I get short intense periods of feeling bad, but they are still not as bad as periods in the past. I'm also not depressed. I have depressing thoughts once in a while, again in short bursts, but they don't last. Stress seems to bring these bad periods on.
Posted by Deneb on February 16, 2008, at 17:17:54
In reply to One last thing ** trigger** (suicide talk) » Deneb, posted by Racer on February 14, 2008, at 13:50:59
I'm glad you didn't go through with your plans to hurt yourself Racer. I've felt the way you have as well. When I was feeling really badly and wanting to die, sometimes I would think I had to "show" others that I was serious.
I don't tend to do that anymore, or at least I hope not...
Thanks for caring Racer. One thing that stops me from hurting myself now is knowing that I will hurt my friends and family if I do. I've been there when other Babblers were feeling suicidal and now I know how scary it is to be on the other side. I've learned a lot on Babble.
Posted by Kath on February 16, 2008, at 17:45:44
In reply to Re: Call pdoc? » Kath, posted by Deneb on February 16, 2008, at 17:11:24
> Thanks for the message Kath! I'm feeling a lot better now. There's no need to call pdoc. I see her every week, so I will just wait until then.
>
> I'm actually not doing that badly. I get short intense periods of feeling bad, but they are still not as bad as periods in the past. I'm also not depressed. I have depressing thoughts once in a while, again in short bursts, but they don't last. Stress seems to bring these bad periods on.
*******Wow Deneb, that sounds like very good news!!I highly doubt that a part-time summer job with Provincial Parks would offer benefits, but it might. If you really like your job, maybe it wouldn't be good to leave it. Would you be able to get it back after the summer if you took another summer job?
hugs, Kath
Posted by Deneb on February 16, 2008, at 18:02:28
In reply to Re: One last thing ** trigger** (suicide talk), posted by Justherself54 on February 14, 2008, at 15:45:10
Thanks for your message JHS. I think my parents accept me the way I am, but I know my Mom has higher hopes for me. She just wants to see me succeed.
I have to learn how to be more independent from them. I have my own path to choose.
Posted by Kath on February 16, 2008, at 18:37:47
In reply to Re: Education being top priority, posted by Deneb on February 16, 2008, at 18:02:28
good to hear you saying that Deneb.
luv, Kath
This is the end of the thread.
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