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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 53 to 77 of 166. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 15:09:01
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes » OddipusRex, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 12:32:34
NikkiT2,
You wrote,[...trying to think of a joke that doesn't take the {micky}[which has been posted to mean],{to make fun of} out of someone or something...].
Are you saying, then, that posts that make fun of people, are to be permitted to be posted here because, in general, you can not think if a joke that does not [take the micky out of someone or something...]? If so, could you clarify if there could be a rational that you could propose that could be used to separate posts that make fun of people, or ridicule people, that could be deemed to be [not OK here], and those that could be deemed [OK here] to post? If you could, then we could discuss whether or not the post in question here could be deemed either [OK or not OK to post here], by the basis of your proposed rational. For example, could you use two examples to separate into either [OK or not OK] to post here by the basis of your proposed rational? If you could, then I could have a better understanding of your previous posts and be better able to discuss them with you.
Lou
Posted by Tabitha on February 1, 2003, at 15:21:49
In reply to Ethnic Jokes, posted by OddipusRex on February 1, 2003, at 12:13:13
Oddipus, I wish we could all do #4. You could tell us how the joke made you feel, IsoM could tell us how your reaction to her post made her feel, and everyone else could jump in with their feelings and associations about it. Then we could struggle to understand and accept each others' reactions.
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2003, at 15:26:51
In reply to I *don't* have/or want to *understand* bigotry! » jane d, posted by jay on February 1, 2003, at 13:22:41
>
> Hey, I have *no* problem making fun of bigots! I am not going to be "p.c." and say "ohhh..those KKK Nazis need love too...". You gotta draw the line *somewhere*..
>
> JayJay, why do you assume that rednecks are KKK Nazi, racist, sexist, child beaters? Isn't that a pretty broad opinion to have of an entire group of people? A white member of the Southern rural laboring class is not necessarily any of those things. If you dislike KKK Nazi, racist, sexist childbeaters, why don't you just say that? I'm assuming you don't automatically dislike Southerners or laborers. If you do, then of course there is no need to say more...
A couple of relevant definitions from Merriam-Webster Online.
Main Entry: red·neck
Pronunciation: 'red-"nek
Function: noun
Date: 1830
1 sometimes disparaging : a white member of the Southern rural laboring class
2 often disparaging : a person whose behavior and opinions are similar to those attributed to rednecks*NOTE (from Dinah) it says attributed to rednecks, not belonging to rednecks. Who is doing the attributing?
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1661
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
- big·ot·ed /-g&-t&d/ adjective
- big·ot·ed·ly adverb
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 15:53:43
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 15:09:01
Lou,
All I was saying is that ALL jokes make fun of someone or something.. I asked if OddipusRex has ever made a joke?? I was just trying to point out that if he had done so, he would have been making fun of someone.
I said NO MORE than that, so please do not see things which aren't there.
have you *ever* told a joke Lou?? I think most people have done.
Nikki
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 15:58:54
In reply to Re: British phrases » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 14:32:48
NikkiT2,
Perhaps you could write after reading the following if they could be either OK or not OK to be posted on this board, or give some other examples to illustrate your point and your rational for such.
A) A man enters his psychiatrist's office and says to him, "Hello". The psychiatrist replys, "What do you mean by that?"
B) A man visits a psychiatrist and tells him that he is there to tell him that his wife thinks that she is a chicken. The psychiatrist says, "How long has she thought that she was a chicken?" The man answers, "Two years." The psychiatrists says to him, "Why havn't you come to me sooner?" The man answers, "We needed the eggs."
Lou
Posted by Ritch on February 1, 2003, at 16:06:07
In reply to Re: FYI, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2003, at 12:46:32
> I looked up the origin of the term redneck on google, and here is some of what I found.
>
> http://www.sonic.net/College-in-a-Can/proftalk/319.html
>
> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=rednecks
>
> So it does, and always has, had a class connotation.
>
>Dinah, yes it is more of a geo-socio-economic thing rather than an ethnic one. My parents families are poor white people and I have been poor most of my life and lived in a rural area in the South. I just *identified* with the humor, it just seems the NAME is what sets everything awry. Perhaps hayseed instead? Geez, didn't mean to offend anybody.
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2003, at 16:20:27
In reply to Re: FYI » Dinah, posted by Ritch on February 1, 2003, at 16:06:07
Ritch, I hate to be overly sensitive, but doesn't it bother you that when someone says redneck someone else thinks of KKK and child beaters? Don't you think that jokes have a part in that? Jokes have traditionally been used to label groups and desensitize people to hatred.
I don't like to argue, really. But sometimes saying nothing seems like it's saying something.
I'm not talking so much now about IsoM's original jokes. I am sure she didn't mean to unleash what she did. And maybe it would have gone away quicker had Oddipus or I or Lou said nothing. But I've never been a big believer in peace at all costs.
I don't mean to offend you, or IsoM, or Jay, or anyone. I'm sure that a lot of this is just confusion over terminology.
I'm sorry that Oddipus was hurt by getting the impression that her values were being scoffed at. (I'm kind of used to it by now, but it used to hurt me.) I'm sure IsoM is hurt that her jokes were taken in a way that she never intended. And I'm sure that Jay is hurt too. So much hurt all the way around.
As for you, you never offended me at all. You have a different opinion about redneck jokes, that's all.
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 16:23:34
In reply to Re: British phrases » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 15:58:54
Lou,
I'm not getting into whether I think certain jokes could be seen as offensive. That could go on forever.
Sorry, so I will not comment on these.
Nikki
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 16:25:53
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 15:53:43
NikkiT2,
You wrote,[...please do not see things which are not there...]. Could you write what I wrote that made you conclude that I [...see things that are not there...]? If you could , then I could look at it again and make any clarifications, if needed.
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 17:11:00
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 16:25:53
Lou,
Your post which included this phrase "Are you saying, then, that posts that make fun of people, are to be permitted to be posted here because, in general, you can not think if a joke that does not" seemed to imply that I said somewhere it was OK to make fun of poeple. I did not say this. I was simply pointing out that ALL jokes make fun of someone or something.
I did not say this was acceptable or unacceptable.. it was a comment all on its own.
I wanted to know if OddipusRex has ever made a joke?? And if so, whether he understood that that joke would be poking fun at someone.. whether it be psychiatrists, blonde women, rednecks or canadians.. basically anyone.
Nikki
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 17:19:56
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 17:11:00
Posted by dreamerz on February 1, 2003, at 18:35:42
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 17:11:00
Like Nikki I live in area where white is minority--I prefer it that way , the people I meet joke about themselves -playing around with the stereotypes that folks may put them in .I don't get any bother from anyone--in fact the opposite ...but of course there are always bad apples.
If someone feels like they have to be hyper careful about offending someone then they have a problem..
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 19:42:11
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 17:11:00
NikkiT2,
You wrote, [...ALL jokes make fun of someone or something...]. That is why I asked you to clarify, [...are you saying, then, that posts that make fun of people, are to be permitted to be posted here because, in general,you can not think of a joke that does not...]?
You now write that [...I did not say this was acceptable or unacceptable...]. That is why I had asked you for clarification, because you left that part unclarified.
But on a different note, I am objecting to this board allowing posts that demean peoples. I objected in the past to the posts demeaning Islamic people. I objected in the past to posts that defame Jewish people. I objected in the past to a post that offered a link to a web site from a political person that posted hate to others including jews. And I have objected to other posts. I am objecting to the post here that now writes about "rednecks" and portreys them in a demeaning manner.I believe, and I have seen the damage done to our young people by others, that think that they commit harmlessness by defaming others under the banner of "joking". To me , I beieve, IMHO, that there should not be allowed these type of posts here for they could be detrimental to the mental health of our young people and that is why I had asked you for clarification. I do not see that those type of posts are "jokes". I do not believe that to make fun of people or to ridicule people is funny at all. I consider "making fun of people" and "jokes that make fun of people" are equilvalent. If you do not mind being the target of an "ethnic joke", then this for you to decide. But I want this board to prohibit those type of posts because there are people that could be hurt by those type of posts , even adults, and I believe that we should be aware of that and consider the sensitivity of others. And Dr. Bob states something similar in his rules for posting. And I wholheartedly agree with him. I do not believe that [all] jokes make fun of people or something. That is an imparitive that ,if true, could allow all kinds of hatred to others on the guise of "joking" and this board could be a haven for hate for the posters that wanted to promulgate hate could put their hate in the form of a joke, and I am dedicated to doing whatever I must do within the bounds of legality to prevent that from happening here. That is why I had asked you for clarification.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2003, at 20:23:34
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 15:53:43
NikkiT2,
You wrote, [...I was pointing out that if OddipusRex had made a joke, then he would have been making fun of someone...]
Could you clarify if the following as to if they[...make fun of somebody?...]. If you think that if one or more do make fun of sombody, could you clarify how that is visible? If you could, then I could understand more about what you wrote when you wrote,[...if OR made a joke, then he would be making fun of somebody.]
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Lou
Posted by syringachalet on February 1, 2003, at 21:15:07
In reply to Re: Try to understand OTHER'S view » jay, posted by jane d on February 1, 2003, at 12:46:34
Jay and All,
I would be lying to myself and you if I said I wasnt a tiny bit bigoted or prejudiced about most issues brought up on this site.
This simple issue of what a 'redneck' is just one very basic example.I try to remember that most of the 'rednecks' I know pay their taxes, treat their familys with love and respect and obey the laws as they stand (even if they dont always agree) until those laws are changed in a court of law or by another branch of our government.
I think that for me, in my dealings with some of the special population I work with in the corrections system, tolerance is a word that is the cornerstone for communications and functional relationships.
I dont not have to like, agree or accept your opinions or way of life. But as long as it doesnt cause harm to anyone else and all partys involved continue that have their OWN free choice to accept or decline your ideas, then I am more
than willing to tolerant your thoughts and actions. For me to attempt anything else, would be a waste of my time and yours.I am sure, no doubt, that you all already know that only time someone else has control over you and your life is if that person(s) have something that you feel you need or want.
If you feel you need acceptance or approval of that person, you also need to decide just what is it worth to you.I had a client tell me just the other day that she had turned her whole life upside down to please someone she admired and then she was hurt deeply when they didnt share in her commitment to their relationship. Obviously, the realtionship was much more valuable to her than it was to them.
All I ask is for each of us to take a moment and look deep inside ourselves and ask, Is all the effort I am putting into this job, relationship, etc REALLy worth it in the end?
Will my life be that much different if I do it
or not?
For many things in life, for me, tolerance is the first step to having a functional relationship with anyone.
If that person that you care so much about doesnt value your relationship as much as you, are you able to accept that status?
(No cant ever make someone else love or genuinely repect them if that other person cant do it on their own.)
For me the chain has always been... tolerance, acceptance and hopefully understanding...
.. as being a 'redneck', my grandmother used to say these two things...1) Maybe you should ask yourself," Is the price of these eggs to high?( Is it really worth all this?)
2) Never try to teach a pig to sing.....
it wastes your time and annoys the pig... LOl
syringachalet
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2003, at 0:28:51
In reply to I *don't* have/or want to *understand* bigotry! » jane d, posted by jay on February 1, 2003, at 13:22:41
> I *will not* apologize for calling somebody ignorant who thinks a certain race of people should sit in the back of a bus.
> I have *no* problem making fun of bigots!
Calling people ignorant and making fun of them isn't supportive. I've asked you to be civil before, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2003, at 0:34:50
In reply to Re: My dear Ms IsoM, posted by justyourlaugh on January 31, 2003, at 19:30:42
> i just ordered a pizza with african american olives on it-want a slice?
Sorry, but I need to ask you not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. I hope you understand. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2003, at 0:36:24
In reply to I will stick to deadly dull subjects from now on.. (nm), posted by IsoM on February 1, 2003, at 1:57:57
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2003, at 0:41:27
In reply to Ethnic Jokes, posted by OddipusRex on February 1, 2003, at 12:13:13
> This forum is a public place. Jokes that people may choose to tell in private are not appropriate here.
I think that's a key point, the setting makes a difference. And of course it applies to comments besides jokes, too...
> http://www.bctf.ca/social/BuildingBridges/support/respond.html
And that was a nice discussion of possible ways to respond, thanks for finding and posting it.
Bob
Posted by shar on February 2, 2003, at 3:34:50
In reply to Re: Shall we agree to differ?, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2003, at 10:19:06
> I just hope that you understand and respect why we feel differently.
......This is a general comment about anybody who asks to be understood (NOT directly at you, Dinah!!). I believe it is not possible in most instances to understand how someone feels unless we feel the same way.
......However, I DO believe it is possible, and desirable, to ACCEPT that someone feels a certain way. So often, there seems to be upsets and eruptions in real life because someone doesn't understand how we feel, we feel misunderstood, don't see how someone can't see our point of view as logical and reasonable.
........Seems the best we can offer each other is acceptance. I accept that there are people in this thread who feel one way about redneck jokes, and some who feel another way. I'm more inclined to agree with one side than the other. However, I can respect everyone's right to their own opinion.
Shar
Posted by Dinah on February 2, 2003, at 3:42:15
In reply to More semantics stuff, posted by shar on February 2, 2003, at 3:34:50
Hey, that's fine. It's actually what I meant, anyway.
(Although, honestly, there are very few topics on which reasonable people disagree that I don't *understand* both sides of the issue. I may not agree, but I understand.)
Posted by IsoM on February 2, 2003, at 4:00:27
In reply to Re: More semantics stuff » shar, posted by Dinah on February 2, 2003, at 3:42:15
I didn't even know rednecks existed. I leave for a couple of days & come back & see this long thread over my original post. Whooaa! So I start reading through it & find these definitions of rednecks.
Okay, first, I live in Canada near the very cosmopolitan city of Vancouver - filled with all sorts of racial & ethnic types - a wonderful variety. You could find restaurants serving any sort of food from around the world there. But the furthest south I've been is Seattle & that was many, many years ago.
I figured rednecks were simply a caricature about hillbilly type people that didn't exist, or so I thought...
Sheeze, folks, I didn't know there really were people like that! Still find it hard to believe. I thought it was a joke like portraying Canadians as people living in igloos with 10 months of winter, all riding sleds with teams of huskies - something that's funny because it isn't like that.I still think my humour piece was funny, & I have trouble believing anyone would fit those descriptions. No one acts in that crude a manner. At least, I sure hope not.
Posted by shar on February 2, 2003, at 4:02:51
In reply to Re: More semantics stuff » shar, posted by Dinah on February 2, 2003, at 3:42:15
> (Although, honestly, there are very few topics on which reasonable people disagree that I don't *understand* both sides of the issue. I may not agree, but I understand.)
..........So, do you understand why I thought the redneck joke was funny?
........And, really, I wanted my post to cover situations in which people (maybe unreasonable people) want to be understood, in a quite specific way. That is, I can understand your reaction to jokes that negatively target socially disadvantaged groups--in a global way, I can understand it, and I am offended by blatantly racist and sexist humor. However, the devil is in the details. The couple arguing about sex or money (two common topics) aren't likely to find peace if each one first needs to understand the other's point of view.
Or, maybe that's just my bizarre way of thinking about things. In my household, there is a rule that dogs don't get people food (it's always been a rule of mine) unless it's mixed in with their dinner of dog food. I have my reasons for the rule, several good ones, IMO. My niece (who stayed with me a while) has a completely different opinion about dogs and people food. I suppose I understand her reasons (they are complete sentences, comprehensible), I just think they're wrong. So, I can fully accept that she believes that, but I don't really "understand" how she can come to that conclusion given all the data to the contrary. In a way, I guess I read into what you were saying that you wanted more than people to comprehend the sentences you were saying, but to "understand" your conclusions, in spite of the fact that they differ from the other's conclusions.
Shar
P.S. What the heck are you doing up so late!?
Posted by shar on February 2, 2003, at 4:14:20
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 17:11:00
>I was simply pointing out that ALL jokes make fun of someone or something.
>whether he understood that that joke would be poking fun at someone..
Nikki, that's what I was trying to say, too, in a previous post. All jokes have a target, and, like you, I can't think of one that doesn't.
Shar
Posted by Tabitha on February 2, 2003, at 4:29:31
In reply to More semantics stuff, posted by shar on February 2, 2003, at 3:34:50
'zactly, Shar, I wish we could all make accepting each other's feelings and reactions a goal here. I'm even more optimistic though, I think it's also possible to understand how someone feels, if they fill in a little background about how they interpret a situation, and some of their personal history that contributes to their reaction.
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