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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by mikhail99 on January 10, 2003, at 11:52:35
In reply to its not lack of safety to me, its lack of sense, posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 11:38:12
>
> In the last week I have seen so much garbage and thinly disguised personal insults that have more place on a high school bathroom wall.
> I don't understand it either Tabitha. I know for me its not lack of safety thats the problem its more just revulsion.
> I don't understand why the civility guidelines are being ignored here either How many times does someone have to apoligize before people can keep their
> petty (YES) and juvenile little jabs to themselves.
> Why post them here? Its not supportive its not clever and its not interesting. If its that important take it up on your own with the person involved.
>
> I don't know what to say about the bitch comment Tabitha, actually I'm not even sure its worth the effort of ignoring.
>
> I don't know, what else to say. I don't know if I'd be sorry that you left for a while, how could I blame you when the sophomoric atmosphere just isn't appealing to me either?
>
> This is after all supposed to be supportive at the very least. Open discussion is a good thing and conflict can be positive. I did see your comments as a genuine attempt to communicate. After thats been done, I don't know what the alternative is besides deciding to stop posting altogether, its sad but true and I'm really sorry this happened.
> I've always thought your posts were particularly funny, kind and supportive and sought them out to read. You're leaving would be a huge lossThanks Gabbix, you said that beautifully! You ROCK!! :-)
Mik
Posted by Dinah on January 10, 2003, at 12:10:31
In reply to Re: Disillusioned » Tabitha, posted by mikhail99 on January 10, 2003, at 11:50:06
I've started and erased a dozen posts today trying to figure out how to say "Let's get back to the real business of this board, supporting each other." And I haven't figured out a way to say it without seeming insensitive to the hurt all around, which I don't want to do. Because I don't think anyone was trying to be clever. I think everyone in one way or another was feeling hurt and responding to it in his/her own way. It's amazing how quickly hurt can spread around.
There was such a small number of posters involved on any of the threads, yet everything seems to have ground to a halt. And I am guilty of letting my frustration over that fact affect me.
I totally agree with what you said about the majority of us thinking long and hard about their posts. And yet even then misunderstandings arise and people are hurt.
I can't think of any reasonable solution except to just get on with things. And I'm afraid that sounds insensitive. Round and round, circular thinking.
Posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 12:44:44
In reply to Re: Disillusioned » mikhail99, posted by Dinah on January 10, 2003, at 12:10:31
Only partially of course...
and never could I see you as insensitive.People were genuinely hurt, but there were an awful lot of "after the fact" jabs that
in all honesty I think went way beyond responding to being hurt,and straight into the gratuitous nastiness department. I've a been hurt and overreacted, and I've been blocked for it too!
I could be completely off base there is always more to the story, regardless, judging by past P.B.C's there is no reason these personal insults should have gone unflagged.
And I can't defend the bitch comment,no matter how circular my thinking.
Posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 12:47:48
In reply to Re: Disillusioned » mikhail99, posted by Dinah on January 10, 2003, at 12:10:31
You make me blush..
Posted by mist on January 10, 2003, at 12:57:29
In reply to Disillusioned, posted by Tabitha on January 10, 2003, at 7:56:51
And it does make the board feel unsafe.
Posted by IsoM on January 10, 2003, at 12:59:19
In reply to Re: its not lack of safety to me, its lack of sense » gabbix2, posted by mikhail99 on January 10, 2003, at 11:52:35
Tabitha, I'm hoping the subject line caught your attention enough to read this.
I think the written form of communication on the internet is one of the worst way of expressing how we feel. You didn't err with your posts. And I feel that most times others didn't mean to either. I'd like to explain.
Because we come from such different backgrouds, experiences, mental/emotional states, & even cultures, something said by a poster, trying to express themself as best as they can, may mean an entirely different thing to a reader. It's frustrating for all concerned. And as you know, hurt escalates from there & doesn't seem to stop.
In over 30 years of adult life, I've got to know & have dealt with many people from different cultures - Japanese, Chinese, Korean (& each one is very different though all Oriental), Lebanese, Egyptian, South African (both white & black), Indonesian, Latin American (from a number of diff Central & South American countries), Punjabi (East Indian), native Indian (aboriginal), blacks from central Africa, Russian, Samoan (Polyensian), plus Europeans from Scandinavian down to Italian & Portuguese. It's unbelievable almost how different each one can seem but underneath, all have the same feelings, hopes, & disappointments.
I guess by trial & error, at first, then by specially reading about each person's cultures, mannerisams, idioms, etc, I've become pretty good at understanding people. I've had a Japanese woman say that I'm so Japanese compared to other Westerners. But then I had a lady from Vienna say I'm so European & onther from the Punjab say I'm so Indian. Latin Americans think I'm much like them. It's the ability to adapt & to take the best from each culture.
But there's no way I'd ever have learned without face-to-face contact. The internet is much too limited. I honestly think that many of us would really enjoy each others company if we were to meet face-to-face, even with those we seem to clash with. I honestly think that you & Alii would really like each other if you were to meet under better circumstances.
I don't even know if I have a point to this post. I'm saddened by the conflict & I HATE conflict. It's one reason that I post less & less here. I'm sure there'll be a point where I just don't bother any more. But I'd like you to know that the hurt & anger others feel probably wouldn't be there if we were to meet in real life.
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 10, 2003, at 13:09:22
In reply to Disillusioned, posted by Tabitha on January 10, 2003, at 7:56:51
Hun.. I relaly like reading your posts.. I may not reply to every one, but I do tend to read yours over alot of others.
The duel comments were IN NO WAY aimed at you.. far from it.. For me they were simply comments over the use of a single word, nothing what so ever connected with the people.. but I can see how that could have been misunderstood now.
There are some posters here that I find are always trying to start conflict, by posting messages that have a hint of antagonism about them, some people that always see the bad in any message or point.. but, I do not see you as one of these people at all.
I'm sorry you feel so sad about being here. I do really hope that it passes and you find some more peace here.
Nikki xx
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 10, 2003, at 13:15:01
In reply to Re: Disillusioned » Tabitha, posted by mikhail99 on January 10, 2003, at 11:50:06
a bitch.. I said I understood that when used in that context, the word was bitchy.. I said a WORD was bitchy.
If people would like to read between the lines of my posts and make accusations, please address them with ME.
I was not trying to be clever. I know I am thick as shit, I ahve been told this my whole life, so I can assure you I was simply talking. Nothing more, nothing less.
I am English, and hence I speak English English, not US English.. I even spoke to friends about this, and they all agreed that they only use the phrase Touche in a bitchy fashion, so maybe this is an English thing.
Nikki
Posted by Noa on January 10, 2003, at 14:21:04
In reply to I called NO ONE, posted by NikkiT2 on January 10, 2003, at 13:15:01
I have to confess I usually skip through most of a thread if I feel it has headed into conflict, but I wanted to comment on a couple of things.
First, thanks for raising the issue of linguistic misunderstandings, Nikki. I think there are real ways that we use language differently that can lead to misunderstandings. Glad you cleared that up.
Second, something that has been discussed here before is just how easy it is to misread people's intentions or affect via written posts. Misunderstandings and even slight sarcasm can lead to angry exchanges very easily and quickly.
Third, as for the posts that seem somewhat antagonistic or provocative, I have been using a rule of thumb for myself--if it seems like it is trying to provoke angry reaction, I stay out of it, and often just skip the rest of the thread.
Posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 15:37:08
In reply to Re: I called NO ONE and other misunderstandings, posted by Noa on January 10, 2003, at 14:21:04
>To me, its always means you've been a bitch.. if >someone is bitchy toward to someone, then we say >touche..
>Thats my understanding of the word, and yes, it >does seem to fit.Nicki, that's where the idea came from, that you'd referred to Tabitha as being bitchy, it was the "it does seem to fit" comment
Perhaps you meant your idea of what the word meant fit its actual definition, not that "bitchy" described the content of Tabitha's post.
I'm sorry if that was misunderstood very sorry,
and I'm sure Tabitha if she's reading these will be really relieved to know that too
I wasn't referring to you at all when I mentioned 'clever' it was toward the posts that as you put so well, in my opinion, have hints of antagonism.
Posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 15:47:14
In reply to Re: I called NO ONE and other misunderstandings, posted by Noa on January 10, 2003, at 14:21:04
> To me, its always means you've been a bitch..
>
> Thats my understanding of the word, and yes, it does seem to fit.Remember not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused, OK? Thanks,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration -- but if conflicts can get worked out here, that would be great...
This was another reason why you're intention was misunderstood. I'd thought if you'd not meant to put someone down, you would have said something here.
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 10, 2003, at 15:54:32
In reply to Re: I called NO ONE and other misunderstandings, posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 15:37:08
Ah, yes, I can see where the misunderstanding came from.
I was kind of trying, badly, to make my point.. that my definition, of it not being particularly nice, fitted the way it had been used.. but it was in no way directed toward a poster, just a situation.. I guess I really lose something when I cant use my hands.
I really am mortified I upset anyway.. I'm going through quite a detached phase at the moment, and it seems I find it hard to see how my words might impact on anyone but myself. I'm not seeing emotion in any way if that makes sense.
Thanks gabbix
Nikki
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 10, 2003, at 15:58:07
In reply to Re: I called NO ONE p.b.c NickiT2, posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 15:47:14
*laughing* I htought you'd pbc'd me there for something you'd copied into the thread!! Phew.. panic over
I honestly missed the pbc at first.. I didn;t get a new label (or did and missed it) so only saw it this evening.. it upset me a little as I realised what I had said.. and when I came back to it tonight this thread had already shot up. Also I was terrified of a reply sounding like I was simply back tracking anjd decided to give myself some time to think about my reply. I hate sticking up for myself, and I do feel I deserved the pbc..
Then once this thread was here I kind of panicked, attacked, and ran...
I am calm now though.. thankyou for your time tonight gabbi
Nikki
Posted by Dinah on January 10, 2003, at 16:06:23
In reply to Re: I called NO ONE and other misunderstandings » gabbix2, posted by NikkiT2 on January 10, 2003, at 15:54:32
Now I feel we're getting somewhere, and the heaviness on the board seems a bit less.
I'm hardly likely to be accused of being an eternal optimist, but in general I have come to the conclusion that it is wisest to give people the benefit of the doubt. And OK, sometimes I let my own hot buttons get in the way of doing that, but I do try. And also, sometimes the best possible interpretation still leaves room for irritation. But I've just seen too many times where it really seemed like someone meant one thing, but what they really meant was something else, or they really did mean what they said but only because they were starting with a mistaken belief.
I'm glad that my absolute disbelief that Nikki was calling Tabitha a bitch was justified. :)
Posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 16:10:23
In reply to Re: I called NO ONE p.b.c NickiT2 » gabbix2, posted by NikkiT2 on January 10, 2003, at 15:58:07
I'm so glad you took that the way it was meant.
I felt bad, because the combination of this annoying computer keyboard, and my state of mind made things sound more terse than I wanted.I'm just glad it got cleared up, and I hope you have a good Friday night. I doubt you'll be going out cause I know that you have as much problem getting out the door as I do, Friday or not. However when I'm at home wondering why no-one asks me to go out anymore.. I'll think good thoughts to you.
Posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 16:13:12
In reply to Re: Heyyy NickiT2 thank-you, posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 16:10:23
Posted by mikhail99 on January 10, 2003, at 16:17:13
In reply to Re: Disillusioned » mikhail99, posted by Dinah on January 10, 2003, at 12:10:31
> I've started and erased a dozen posts today trying to figure out how to say "Let's get back to the real business of this board, supporting each other." And I haven't figured out a way to say it without seeming insensitive to the hurt all around, which I don't want to do. Because I don't think anyone was trying to be clever. I think everyone in one way or another was feeling hurt and responding to it in his/her own way. It's amazing how quickly hurt can spread around.
>
> There was such a small number of posters involved on any of the threads, yet everything seems to have ground to a halt. And I am guilty of letting my frustration over that fact affect me.
>
> I totally agree with what you said about the majority of us thinking long and hard about their posts. And yet even then misunderstandings arise and people are hurt.
>
> I can't think of any reasonable solution except to just get on with things. And I'm afraid that sounds insensitive. Round and round, circular thinking.It doesn't sound insensitive, I think it's come to a point where that's all we can do. I think at this point, a lot of misunderstandings have been cleared up EXCEPT for the ones (and I'm sorry, I disagree with you) from those who felt the need to be sarcastically "witty". I guess it's probably a defensive mechanism for some but as I said previously, there are some fragile people here (and that could include me during certain moments in my life) and we must think before we type. Nothing is gained by nastiness and sarcasm. What was it my mother used to say, "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all..." :-)
Now if we can just get Tabitha back... TABITHA!!!! TABITHA!!!!!
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 10, 2003, at 16:23:18
In reply to Re: Heyyy NickiT2 thank-you, posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 16:10:23
I'm having a really nice friday night (its 10:15pm here)... I'm drinking beer for the first time in ages (only had two bottles, just the right amount) and chatting on MSN with one of my bestest friends, a lady in canada who I met years ago online, and she visits me every year, and we are hoping I can get to hers this year some time.
I know some people might call me sad, but I;m warm and happy now tonight. VT (virtual time) frienships and arguments are very important to me, though I may deny it at time ;)
Nikki xx
Posted by Dinah on January 10, 2003, at 16:29:26
In reply to Re: Disillusioned » Dinah, posted by mikhail99 on January 10, 2003, at 16:17:13
With the confident exterior and the interior that is far more sensitive than she might care to admit, the Beardy who is devastated by the loss of her dog.
Besides, who would correct my many grammar errors. (which Miss Bearded Lady, ma'am, I assure you are mainly intentional.)
Posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 17:00:08
In reply to And Ms Bearded Lady, ma'am, too, posted by Dinah on January 10, 2003, at 16:29:26
I second that! and your description is my perception of miss Beardedlady too.
see look at al thes misstakes Im makin
doesnt this make yuo wantt to come bak berdy?
Posted by Tabitha on January 10, 2003, at 18:13:31
In reply to Re: And Ms Bearded Lady, ma'am, too, posted by gabbix2 on January 10, 2003, at 17:00:08
Wow, I'm overwhelmed. Can't even reply coherently now to these messages and some very kind emails, but wanted to at least say thanks Nikki for clearing up that one comment. I was truly confused about what you said. I know the responsible thing to do was to ask you for clarification, but I wasn't up to taking the risk of getting an unkind reply at that point.
Posted by Ginjoint on January 10, 2003, at 21:20:07
In reply to Disillusioned, posted by Tabitha on January 10, 2003, at 7:56:51
Awww, Tabitha....everyone else has already said anything I could think of on this, so...<Ginjoint pattin' yer back and wipin' yer tears with a soft hankie -- not a Kleenex, but a real hankie>
I may not post much, but you are one of the reasons I continue to visit this board. Don't go 'way.
Sincerely,
Ginjoint
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 11, 2003, at 3:40:51
In reply to Re: Disillusioned » Tabitha, posted by NikkiT2 on January 10, 2003, at 13:09:22
> In the last week I have seen so much garbage and thinly disguised personal insults that have more place on a high school bathroom wall.
>
> gabbix2> someone felt the need to tear your comments apart and analyze even though they're clearly not qualified to do so.
>
> Mik> There are some posters here that I find are always trying to start conflict, by posting messages that have a hint of antagonism about them, some people that always see the bad in any message or point..
>
> NikkiIt's great to support others, that's the idea here, but when doing so, please be careful not to post anything that could lead different others to feel accused or put down. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 11, 2003, at 4:13:03
In reply to Disillusioned, posted by Tabitha on January 10, 2003, at 7:56:51
> I think Dr Bob is on the right track, trying to keep the focus on support and education... In retrospect, I can see the threads that work best are the purely light-hearted ones, and the purely supportive ones
Those are less likely to lead to conflict, anyway...
> It seems every time a conflict comes up, it just divides the group, people take sides, or try to be careful not to take sides, and a bunch of insult-trading happens, and the unlucky impulsive ones get blocked, and the conflict doesn't get resolved, and the division lingers.
> I wanted more, I wanted to get to know people, get a picture of their personalities, and develop affection for them. Once you start doing that, then, conflicts happen, and, well, like I said, they just don't get worked out.
I'm biased, of course, but I think some conflicts do, with time, get worked out enough to move on, at least...
> Beardedlady's departure hit me hard, too... Maybe she'll get over that hurt and return, again. But I'm sad that going off alone and licking your wounds is the only option here. There really ought to be a better way.
Maybe it's seeing the glass as half full, but IMO it's good if people can disengage when they feel something isn't helping. And then re-engage later. And of course if they aren't totally alone (ie, have other supports) while off licking their wounds...
> There's more stuff lately about thick skin, so I know that sharing my hurt will likely invite ridicule.
That may have been about sharing hurt, but it may also have been about having some administrative power. You're always free to take a break from that, you know...
Bob
Posted by syringachalet on January 11, 2003, at 23:57:02
In reply to Re: Disillusioned, posted by Dr. Bob on January 11, 2003, at 4:13:03
I dont know about others but when Im really hurting inititally I need to be alone....
I need to be able to feel through whatever
is within me and not have it hurt or anger
anyone else.I have sometimes said things during that
initital period that could negatively impact others who are also vulnerable.Also once that initital period has passed,
I need time to process through about what has happened.
To see how it happened..not blaming or judgemental.. and see what I can..if anything.. for it not to happen again.For me it helps me to feel I am actively
doing something about my problem or situation.. empowerment the big boys call it.. and it
is that tiny piece of control I can regain
that helps me feel just enough better about myself and my situation and I can pull myself back up and go again...just differently.
..Lifes a dance you learn as you go;
sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow.
Dont worry about what you dont know...
Lifes a dance you learn as you go..country radio PTSD 309.81...
syringachalet
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