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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by kiddo on March 19, 2002, at 6:49:17
In reply to still cutting..., posted by ELA on March 19, 2002, at 4:38:34
Emma-
I'm sorry I have no sage advice for you, and will probably say nothing you don't already know or haven't heard before. I wanted to respond because I know too well how it feels to be where you are.
I've cut/burned myself in the past because I wanted to feel physical pain to relieve the emotional, and because there was no feeling at all and wanted to feel something, anything at all.
'Something' is wrong or you wouldn't have the need to cut, IMNSO; although I've heard it's addictive.
How long has it been since you've last cut, if you don't mind my asking?
If people don't see you falling apart, at the end of your rope, they think you are fine. They have no clue what's going on inside.Tend to your cuts as a mother would her child's wounds. Pamper yourself, you need it (in my opinion). I used to think of the ointment, etc., as not only a dressing for the cuts, but perhaps a way to start the healing on the inside...I know it sounds dumb. Salve for the soul as well. I'd remind myself that in taking care of them, I was taking care of myself and that helped because I still cared about me-even if I thought no one else did.
If we could just 'snap out of it' and get one with life, there would be no need for medications, psychiatrists, counselor's, etc.. It just isn't that easy, although we all wish it were.
I don't know if you still live with your parents, but is there a way you could separate yourself from them, even temporarily?
FWIW-we'll help you get through it as much as we can and will be there if you need to talk, scream, vent, or cry.
If you feel the need to talk, cut or whatever, feel free to let us know. Some of us can be in chat in a matter of minutes at times. I'm glad your suicide attempt didn't work-I like having you around :-)
I'll be in chat for a bit if you want to join, don't feel like you have to show up though, just because I'm there.
Hope you feel better soon-
Kiddo
Posted by ELA on March 19, 2002, at 7:33:41
In reply to Re: still cutting... » ELA, posted by kiddo on March 19, 2002, at 6:49:17
I've been cutting on and off for years, but more recently with everything that's been going on.
I can easily get away from home temporarily but i'd have to come back and that's the problem.
I tried to get into the chat thing but there's never anyone there when I eventually get in! Anyone give me some help as to how I can catch up with you guys?!
Emma.
Posted by trouble on March 19, 2002, at 7:42:28
In reply to still cutting..., posted by ELA on March 19, 2002, at 4:38:34
>>>Give myself something real to hurt about...
Hi ELA,
Your father's treatment of you is real.
Does it hurt?
ELA, if he and you are in therapy together, I also hope you get private sessions too, so you and your T can talk openly about your relationship w/ your dad. If your dad is in treatment w/you then his words must be heard by the therapist, so s/he can protect you, while your father works on getting well.
Please do keep Kiddo's chat offer in mind, talk yourself through it, talk yourself to sleep, perhaps you'll feel differently after rest. If not, can you see your therapist today?
Also are you familiar w/DBT therapy? Is that an option? I *think* it costs less than half what you pay for regular therapy, insurance usually covers it. DBT could be a useful addition to your therapeutic network.>>because I'm sick of trying to get through this on my own now.
I agree, you need to stop doing that. Can you give us a chance?
I hope to hear from you again soon. Please take care.
trouble
Posted by KB on March 19, 2002, at 8:30:38
In reply to Re: still cutting..., posted by trouble on March 19, 2002, at 7:42:28
I think getting away from your parents, even temporarily sounds like a good idea. I also think that, unfortunately, you may have to reconcile yourself to the idea that they may never "get it" and respond to your pain the way you want them to. Some people are just incapable of understanding mental pain at all, and parents are particularly bad at it because of denial - they just can't see it in THEIR child.
Good luck.
Posted by kiddo on March 19, 2002, at 8:35:31
In reply to still cutting..., posted by ELA on March 19, 2002, at 4:38:34
All you need to do is post a message saying you need to chat. You can put it in the subject, no message is needed. Just add the (nm) to the subject line, and in the box, put a space so it doesn't kick back to you.
Someone usually comes in chat between 7-10 pm central time.
Kiddo
Posted by Fi on March 19, 2002, at 10:46:54
In reply to Re: still cutting..., posted by KB on March 19, 2002, at 8:30:38
Posted by ELA on March 19, 2002, at 12:31:50
In reply to still cutting..., posted by ELA on March 19, 2002, at 4:38:34
Nightmare continues...father has just come in from work and is being all sweetness and light now. I think this behaviour pisses me off even more than him being mean to me! He can just turn it on and off; he makes comments like he did yesterday and then carries on the next day as if nothing has happened. There is no point in me trying to tell him how hurt I was as my opinions and feelings don't count as far as he's concerned.
I've been meaning to ask the question - what is this "nm" thing all about???!!!
Arm pain has calmed down a bit now but I don't think I've helped the scars that were already there. Oh well...
Emma.
Posted by LiLi80 on March 19, 2002, at 12:37:02
In reply to Re: Chat » ELA, posted by kiddo on March 19, 2002, at 8:35:31
If cutting helps, keep doing it. I am the only person who will tell you that. I think. I have the same father you do or they come they from the same planet. the planet of "its not a problem if i dont accept it as one." I think fathers dont want to accept that they are the problem not just you. You came from him, oh no that means he might be the reason you are depressed. STupid fathers dont want to admit that they had anything to do with their childrens depression, whether genetically or making it worse thru stupid behavior and demeaning it like it is all in our heads. Once you realize that you can get away from mom and dad, you will be ok. Try moving out. You will either sink or swim. If you sink you can always go back to living with the folks. If you swim you wont have to deal with your dad anymore. I have realized that, who cares if they are your parents, everyone has issues with their parents, there is no law saying you have to put up with it. Most of the people on the board would agree that their depression has been worsened by their parents in one way or another. But it sounds like you still live with them, so that makes it worse for you. I know that most of my problems would be easier to deal with if i didnt have my stupid parents putting their totally uncalled for 2cents in. I know that once i am out of my folks house i will be happier simply living without commentws like "stop being stupid, and why are you doing this to us". HAng in there if you have to stay in their house, but if you dont have to , get out, cause they are only hurting you. Live with another relative or something. You will happier.
Posted by LiLi80 on March 19, 2002, at 12:39:18
In reply to tell your folks to get lost! » kiddo, posted by LiLi80 on March 19, 2002, at 12:37:02
Posted by Dinah on March 19, 2002, at 13:07:13
In reply to still cutting..., posted by ELA on March 19, 2002, at 4:38:34
I just thought I'd post a link to a site that I've found helpful.
http://crystal.palace.net/~llama/selfinjury/
Don't forget to keep the cuts clean so that infections don't set in. I use antibiotic ointment on mine. It seems to help reduce scarring.
Take care.
Posted by Krazy Kat on March 19, 2002, at 14:46:56
In reply to still cutting..., posted by ELA on March 19, 2002, at 4:38:34
ELA:
I have been "cutting" since about 16 (I am 31 now). It has become much more infrequent as I have aged.
Can you get away from your parents? If I had stayed with my rents past 18, the situation would have been similar to yours. But I was in college (which I know you were, too - can you go back next fall?) and even though I had problems, I was better off.
Some may disagree with me, and I understand, but sometimes, gaining your independence helps more that you think it will.
Let us know how you are.
- KK
Posted by Zo on March 19, 2002, at 19:07:10
In reply to Re: still cutting... » ELA, posted by Krazy Kat on March 19, 2002, at 14:46:56
Whether you leave or stay with them, it's still the same pain to get over, the pain of having these people not care. Probably not know how. Probably your Dad thinks he loves you. If you have somewhere else to stay for a while where this stressor will not be in your face, that sounds like a good idea.
But cutting? I see it as a dance, a beautiful, tragic dance, in which you create and recreate that which will not be seen for those you most wish to see it. Eventually you won't have to do anything, neither cut them or yourself, because you will have worked through your rightful anger. . .just as all of us who were so profoundly neglected, like you, come to terms with it.
The cuts--they take the place of words, don't they? Of drawings? Are you creative? I suspect so. When I hurt myself repetitively, it was on a tiny enclosed scale, an immense amount of creative energy and love that had nowhere to go, all focused on an inch of my skin. That's the size of the world they granted me, the size of their parenting skills, their care.
Take that energy and make it big. I started out with these gigantic sheets of cheap paper. Mine, all mine. We're here, PB is here, I think, to give you some of that Big World you deserve.
Zo
Posted by Zo on March 19, 2002, at 19:13:52
In reply to still cutting..., posted by ELA on March 19, 2002, at 4:38:34
Posted by IsoM on March 19, 2002, at 19:22:43
In reply to Re: still cutting... » Krazy Kat , posted by Zo on March 19, 2002, at 19:07:10
Emma, I agree with KK - move away, get out of that atmosphere.
You trade one set of problems for another, but if you trade wisely, you'll be in control of the new problems, not your parents.When I split from a very destructive relationship with my husband, I felt lost, so alone (even though friends were being supportive) & bleak. But I preferred it over the hell I knew previously. There was no way out of that arrangement, nothing to improve. At least on my own, my problems were my own & I had control of them. I wasn't dancing to someone else's song, it was my own. And bit by bit, I made it better.
As long as you can find a roof over your head that's not infested with rats & cockroaches, has running water, toilet, & heat, go for it. Food & shelter are the necessities, everything else you can gather bit by bit as you rebuild your own life & environment. I gather second-hand dishes, something to sit on, etc. As I slowly got better things, I'd pass the second-hand stuff to others who were needy.
Don't cut yourself off from all contact with those you care about though. You need someone as a safety net, even if you do feel alone around them. People are often willing to help if they only can be told how to. Many feel helpless 'cause they don't know what someone needs & as that individual withdraws, they assume they don't like them anymore.
Posted by trouble on March 20, 2002, at 3:58:24
In reply to tell your folks to get lost! » kiddo, posted by LiLi80 on March 19, 2002, at 12:37:02
Hey Lilli,
Glad to see you posting the last few days, you sound like a changed woman, some kind of teenage Amazon chick who's had it with the bullshit and is speaking from her own place of truth. Maybe you should change your Name to Artemis.
Telling our friend to keep cutting herself is an interesting idea. To both of you I'd like to say that whoever your parents are, they don't deserve you. Maybe that's why we get stuck w/ them, imagine how fucked up they'd be w/out us. You're showing them the kind of autonomy they lack in themselves, whether they ever figure this out is another story.take care of your autonomy,
love, trouble
Posted by LiLi80 on March 20, 2002, at 4:06:14
In reply to Re: tell your folks to get lost! to Lilli, posted by trouble on March 20, 2002, at 3:58:24
Thanks trouble
Posted by ELA on March 20, 2002, at 4:39:13
In reply to Re: moving away, posted by IsoM on March 19, 2002, at 19:22:43
I know that I need to get away but I just can't see how at the moment. I've got new courses coming up soon, I'm working to pay for them and I can't afford a place of my own or anything. I've had loads of offers from friends to stay but I can't do that long term so I don't really see the point of getting away for a week or so and then coming back.
Also, there's my darling little brother to think about. He's nearly 12 and I love him to bits. He doesn't like our dad either and I'm reluctant to leave him. Mum has started turning into dad as well and I don't want J to be stuck with those two! It's sad to have such a low opinion of your own parents really isn't it?
I'm really disappointed with myself this morning as I look at my arms. I cut them some more last night and they're in a complete state now. Bloody hell!!!!!!!! I'm just so fucked off with everything right now.
Thanks for everything you've been saying. It really does help me, I'm so glad I've got this board.
Emma.
Posted by ST on March 20, 2002, at 4:42:29
In reply to still cutting..., posted by ELA on March 19, 2002, at 4:38:34
Emma,
If you surround yourself with just a few compassionate, understanding souls, then your dad's harshness and unwillingness to see your pain won't hurt as much.
You do have a lot to live for. Everything that you're going through now is going to give you an amazing foundation for your life. Keep going. It really does get better. You'll have some set backs and you'll probably cut some more, but you're probably getting stronger without even knowing.
Sarah
Posted by Charlotte on March 20, 2002, at 5:37:23
In reply to still cutting..., posted by ELA on March 19, 2002, at 4:38:34
Emma I'm sorry your father is so unfeeling and oblivious to your attempts at recovery.
Are you able to talk with your therapist about your father -- particularly what he said about you "milking it" now?
If so, I would suggest that your therapist request a session with both your parents so that s/he can enlighten them both on what is going on with you, how long it could take, and how they can HELP.
What's going on in your environment today is just as important as discussing what led up to the problems.
Take care,
Charlotte
Posted by ELA on March 20, 2002, at 7:51:40
In reply to Re: still cutting..., posted by Charlotte on March 20, 2002, at 5:37:23
Hi Charlotte,
Thanks for your message. I have talked extensivey with Georgina (my therapist) about my probs with my dad and she agrees that it is a big problem! We've tried to set up family meetings but he just won't have it. They came to the family group meeting when I was in treatment but he walked out after the first half and refused to go back in for the second.
He thinks that therapy is "namby pamby bullshit" and unnecessary and that people should just pull themselves together. I said to him that I hoped he would never need it then and he said that he would never "be so stupid as to need something so pointless because it's a cop out".
He's not a very reasonable man as you can see! Whatever he says is law in his eyes and anyone that dares to disagree is im trouble. I am hesitant to try and ask for a family meeting again as I dread to think what might happen if anyone tried to show him the contribution he has made to my problems.
Emma.
Posted by IsoM on March 20, 2002, at 13:06:15
In reply to Re: moving away » IsoM, posted by ELA on March 20, 2002, at 4:39:13
Emma, what's with your parents? What makes them so strange? I'm not asking you to psychoanalyse them for me, but is there anything obvious that makes them act so heartless & so variable? Did they come from a weird life & is your aunts & uncles, related to them, just as strange?
You're wonderful for wanting to be there to help your little brother. I applaud you that. Your approval, love, & support may help prevent him from becoming depressed like you. Too bad there was no one for you then. Even giving him love & comfort will do so much for you mentally & emotionally - making you feel a worthy human, boosting your own self-esteem. Think of the need to be strong & feel proud of who you are for his emotional growth & health too (despite what you do to your arms). You are a worth-while person, certainly more noble than your parents.
I so often want to grab parents that I see screwing up their children, oblivious to their pain & suffering, & shake them till their teeth rattle. How can they be so heartless to their own flesh, extensions of their own body? I think of the months I carried my babies under my heart & they always will be tied to my heart with cords - not apron-strings but heart-cords. Thy're all grown men now but still part of me - always.
I really believe, on the whole, that children act towards their parents in the same pattern that the parents act towards their children. Lippy disrespectful children often have parents that treat them that way at home, if not always in the public's eye. Parents seem to forget that if they demand respect & love from their children, they first need to show it to them as an example.
Posted by kiddo on March 20, 2002, at 14:15:45
In reply to Re: Your Parents and Your Brother » ELA, posted by IsoM on March 20, 2002, at 13:06:15
You said more in those 4 paragraphs than some people acknowledge in a lifetime.
Mind if I take what you said (maybe reword them, maybe not) and create a poem/saying from it? I'm thinking of doing a pencil drawing of mother and child, the wording in calligraphy on an ivory or gold parchment. What do you think?
Kiddo
Posted by IsoM on March 20, 2002, at 14:30:12
In reply to Thank you so much!! » IsoM, posted by kiddo on March 20, 2002, at 14:15:45
I'd truly be touched & honored. I honestly don't know how parents who loved & cherished their children so very much as babies, could lose touch with them as they grow. I enjoyed mine more & more as they grew into adults. They're truly fascinating, interesting people that I enjoy doing things with besides just sitting & talking.
I've got some beautiful art saved to my HD of various paintings done of mother & child(ren). One favourite is a pre-Raphaelite - just beautiful.
Posted by judy1 on March 21, 2002, at 2:39:53
In reply to still cutting..., posted by ELA on March 19, 2002, at 4:38:34
please forgive me for not reading the entire thread. you didn't mention if you dissociate first? If so, that makes it much more difficult to stop. Is your therapist trained in DBT? The key is to find another coping skill that is less harmful, but until then a LOT of people do this- so please don't put yourself down. I wish you all the best, you sound like a warm and sensitive person who will eventually find your way. take care, judy
Posted by judy1 on March 21, 2002, at 2:43:44
In reply to Re: still cutting... » ELA, posted by Dinah on March 19, 2002, at 13:07:13
that is a wonderful site you posted, i found a lot of help there. i was happy to see you back, how are you feeling? I hope the time away gave you time to heal. i am on a great deal of meds, answered a post to oldschool about post partum psychosis which is what i have. my doctors are very good though and i think i see the light. take care, judy
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