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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 54. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on December 7, 2013, at 11:41:41
In reply to Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by Partlycloudy on December 7, 2013, at 7:11:05
I was also told to walk away when someone was triggering me. And I try to. Phillipa
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 7, 2013, at 15:28:15
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Partlycloudy, posted by Phillipa on December 7, 2013, at 11:41:41
Seems to me I was being told (collectively? Or singled out?) to get used to the sh*t slinging, because that's life.
Actually, it doesn't have to be.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 7, 2013, at 16:16:04
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Phillipa, posted by Partlycloudy on December 7, 2013, at 15:28:15
> Seems to me I was being told (collectively? Or singled out?) to get used to the sh*t slinging, because that's life.
> Actually, it doesn't have to be.maybe it depends on what you think 'sh*t' is. i mean... it is pretty sh*t about your kitchen being renovated... the impact that that has had on you.
on the one hand... it is sh*t.
but on the other hand it is good, right. i mean... you end up with a renovated kitchen, yeah? which is meant to be... better. i guess that is the idea. you pay them a bunch of money and put up with then invading your space for a while in order to get... a better kitchen.
still pretty sh*t going through the process of renovations, though, i would have thought.
in that sense... well... the weather turns to sh*t sometimes. people do stuff we don't like... don't do stuff we don't like... we don't earn as much money as we like... we don't get that promotion. we don't get that job. we don't get that voluntary job. we need to take these meds. we need to put up with depression or traumatic pasts or...
i mean in that sense...
sh*t happens. so... little to be done but figure some way to rage a little less.
that is what i took anyway. wfiw.
on the other hand... other sorts of sh*t are relatively easily avoided (if we are lucky enough to be in the position). leaving a partner who smashes your face in, for example. don't need to put up with that... often. not hanging out with friends where it is true that: 'with friends like these who needs enemies'. not staying in a job where you are the victim of sexual harrassment. etc etc etc. that kind of sh*t... one is better off without if one has the power, for sure.
then there is stuff that is sh*t for me and perhaps not sh*t for you. and vice versa. that stuff gets harder... weighing costs and benefits...
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2013, at 1:49:41
In reply to Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by Partlycloudy on December 7, 2013, at 7:11:05
> PTSD, a lifetime of it, has given me a certain set of skills. Most of them have had to do with avoidance. Triggers are unforeseen in so many cases that it can be wearing to be on my guard at all times. Once I know of obvious triggers, I can either deal with them - because they aren't the threat they once were; or I can walk away (avoidance). Which is not a weakness, but a strength.
Being able to deal with them is a strength, too. How do you make them not the threat they once were?
Bob
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 8, 2013, at 6:43:12
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2013, at 1:49:41
I am not yet at that point with you, it would seem.
Plus, your approach with the community has changed quite a bit since I was here long ago.
Why can't I be included in the net of protection that Lou has with you? (You can't deny that you give him protection from other posters.)PC
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 8, 2013, at 8:48:50
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Dr. Bob, posted by Partlycloudy on December 8, 2013, at 6:43:12
Also, I guess I am suggesting that YOU come up with the answer on this one. I work hard enough on this with my therapist and own pdoc. This is your sandbox.
How would you prefer I deal with the sh*t slinging here?PC
Posted by Poet on December 8, 2013, at 19:01:54
In reply to Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by Partlycloudy on December 7, 2013, at 7:11:05
Hi PC,
I promise to never throw sh*t your way. Glad that your meditation is working, my T and Dr. Clueless have suggested it many times, but I can't slow down those negative thoughts long enough. I know, start a few minutes at a time.
Why Bob doesn't just change the admin board to the accusation and offend board I don't know. I never feel safe here anymore...
Poet
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 8, 2013, at 19:42:47
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Partlycloudy, posted by Poet on December 8, 2013, at 19:01:54
> Hi PC,
>
> I promise to never throw sh*t your way.(((Poet)))
Glad that your meditation is working, my T and Dr. Clueless have suggested it many times, but I can't slow down those negative thoughts long enough. I know, start a few minutes at a time.
>
> Why Bob doesn't just change the admin board to the accusation and offend board I don't know. I never feel safe here anymore...
>
> Poet
>I think therein lies the answer, Poet. And Dr. Bob should stop sling his sh*t my way. That would reduce my trauma.
So easy.
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2013, at 13:22:33
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Phillipa, posted by Partlycloudy on December 7, 2013, at 15:28:15
That's really the infuriating part, isn't it?
Not only that sh*t is being slung, but that we're told it's beneficial to us.
I should have left middle school as the strongest, most resilient person in the world.
Infuriating isn't quite strong enough a word.
Posted by 10derheart on December 9, 2013, at 13:56:50
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Partlycloudy, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2013, at 13:22:33
>>Infuriating isn't quite strong enough a word.
No sh*t. ;-))
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 9, 2013, at 14:59:43
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Partlycloudy, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2013, at 13:22:33
And I daren't say what this REALLY is, because someone might take offense - at reading the truth. Argh, nothing has changed, except the bullies earned degrees and got older.
PC
At least I feel freer to swear...
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 1:20:21
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Partlycloudy, posted by Partlycloudy on December 8, 2013, at 8:48:50
> your approach with the community has changed quite a bit since I was here long ago.
Yes, it's changed. Maybe Babble was ready for, or even needed, a change.
> Why can't I be included in the net of protection that Lou has with you? (You can't deny that you give him protection from other posters.)
Think of me as a homeless shelter. You can't be included because you're not homeless.
> Also, I guess I am suggesting that YOU come up with the answer on this one. I work hard enough on this with my therapist and own pdoc. This is your sandbox.
> How would you prefer I deal with the sh*t slinging here?Disclaimer: I'm thinking about the board. I can't know what's best for you. I'm curious, in fact, how this compares with the advice of your therapist and pdoc.
My thinking right now is that what would be good for the board would be:
1. not slinging it back
2. shielding yourself
3. helping others shield themselves
4. notifying me if you think I should respond
5. expressing how you feel
6. reflecting on times you've slung it yourself, or wanted to
7. supporting the slingerI know, easier said than done. Thanks for asking,
Bob
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2013, at 3:45:16
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 1:20:21
> > Why can't I be included in the net of protection that Lou has with you? (You can't deny that you give him protection from other posters.)
>
> Think of me as a homeless shelter. You can't be included because you're not homeless.So you're saying that Babble is now being run for Lou and people as disturbed as Lou? And everyone else has to suck it? We're not nuts enough for you to give a crap about us?
Got it. Bye.
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2013, at 3:46:06
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on December 10, 2013, at 3:45:16
Sorry. Meant to redirect that to Admin.
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 10, 2013, at 5:42:38
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 1:20:21
Dr. Bob,
Your game of giving me a multiple choice answer is not fair. It actually smacks of a really poor therapist I endured two sessions with. Every topic resulted in a "20 question" type response from the therapist.So, I am not going to play. You give me your considered answer.
As to what my therapist and psychiatrist think of your expertise? Well, I am afraid to say that they don't think highly of you. Your ethics. Your approach towards the community. They think you are in way above your head.
So, enough with the Lou- responses to my posts. If you can't give an honest, heartfelt response, I would like to know.
PC
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 10:44:05
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Dr. Bob, posted by Partlycloudy on December 10, 2013, at 5:42:38
> Your game of giving me a multiple choice answer is not fair. It actually smacks of a really poor therapist I endured two sessions with. Every topic resulted in a "20 question" type response from the therapist.
>
> So, I am not going to play. You give me your considered answer.
>
> As to what my therapist and psychiatrist think of your expertise? Well, I am afraid to say that they don't think highly of you. Your ethics. Your approach towards the community. They think you are in way above your head.My considered answer was that those would all be good for the board. It wasn't a test. It was a list of options. Like a menu. The multiple choice aspect was that it would be up to posters which (if any) to choose for themselves.
Do you not care for anything on the menu? Is there something else you'd like me to add?
And I wasn't wondering what they thought of me, I was wondering how those options compared with the options they advised for you. If they give you advice at all. I understand their approach might be not to guide you, but to help you find your own way.
(If they wanted to chime in themselves, I'd welcome that. Maybe they'd be able to teach me a thing or two.)
Bob
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 10, 2013, at 11:11:45
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 10:44:05
That is no answer.
And I am not going to tell you how they think you should run this site - there are web consultants for that.
No dodging. Straight answer. Come on.
PC
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 17:35:26
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Dr. Bob, posted by Partlycloudy on December 10, 2013, at 11:11:45
> That is no answer.
>
> No dodging. Straight answer. Come on.Maybe I misunderstood. Could you repeat the question?
> And I am not going to tell you how they think you should run this site - there are web consultants for that.
That's fine, I can manage. But I wasn't wondering how they thought I should run this site, I was wondering how the options I suggested compared with the options they advised for you. If you'd prefer not to answer the question, that's fine.
Bob
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 10, 2013, at 17:56:07
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 17:35:26
> > That is no answer.
> >
> > No dodging. Straight answer. Come on.
>
> Maybe I misunderstood. Could you repeat the question?I am not falling for that. If you don't want to answer your OWN question - how you would like me to handle sh*t slinging at Babble - then say so. YOU posed the question, not me.
We can drop it and say that you lost your trail of thought, rather than couldn't be bothered to read the thread.>
> > And I am not going to tell you how they think you should run this site - there are web consultants for that.
>
> That's fine, I can manage. But I wasn't wondering how they thought I should run this site, I was wondering how the options I suggested compared with the options they advised for you. If you'd prefer not to answer the question, that's fine.
>
> BobThey think that you should not be running this site. The End.
PC
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 18:46:10
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Dr. Bob, posted by Partlycloudy on December 10, 2013, at 17:56:07
> > I wasn't wondering how they thought I should run this site, I was wondering how the options I suggested compared with the options they advised for you. If you'd prefer not to answer the question, that's fine.
>
> They think that you should not be running this site. The End.OK, the end of that discussion.
> > Maybe I misunderstood. Could you repeat the question?
>
> I am not falling for that. If you don't want to answer your OWN question - how you would like me to handle sh*t slinging at Babble - then say so. YOU posed the question, not me.OK, let me try again:
Q: How would I like you to handle the sh*t slinging here?
A: I'd like posters to choose one or more of the following options:
1. not sling it back
2. shield themselves
3. help others shield themselves
4. notify me if they think I should respond
5. express how they feel
6. reflect on times they've slung it themselves, or wanted to
7. support the slingerSince you're a poster, I'd like you to choose one or more of those options, too.
Did that count as an answer?
Bob
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2013, at 18:51:48
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Dr. Bob, posted by Partlycloudy on December 10, 2013, at 17:56:07
I read a good number of posts to my therapist today, including posts by Dr. Bob.
His suggestions ranged from Dr. Bob having gone to a few seminars on group management and awkwardly attempting to figure out how to use them, to Dr. Bob setting up situations that will prove beneficial to his research without fair disclosure to the guinea pigs. And we bandied about a few more amusing possibilities. But there is no point trying to figure it out, since Dr. Bob is unlikely to be open.
My therapist was pretty much in line with yours about recent board administration. He's surprised. He points out that if someone is in an unmoderated place where sh*t is being thrown, they have the option of growing a thicker skin or leaving the situation. Which would *always* be my choice. If this were happening in my Sunday School, I'd find a different church. If this were happening in my workplace, I'd file a complaint with the proper authorities as I looked for another job. But he pointed out that this *isn't* an unmoderated situation and there is a reasonable expectation that rules will be fairly and consistently enforced towards all. He can't see any benefit whatsoever to allowing sh*t to be flung at some but not all.
Posted by SLS on December 10, 2013, at 21:06:21
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 18:46:10
> OK, let me try again:
>
> Q: How would I like you to handle the sh*t slinging here?
>
> A: I'd like posters to choose one or more of the following options:
>
> 1. not sling it back
> 2. shield themselves
> 3. help others shield themselves
> 4. notify me if they think I should respond
> 5. express how they feel
> 6. reflect on times they've slung it themselves, or wanted to
> 7. support the slingerI wish you weren't so damned logical. This list of options makes a great deal of sense. It may be too idyllic a model, though. If no one has a shield for a particular insult, or no one with a shield cares to get involved, how will you protect the community from the insult and minimize the trauma to the individual? I realize that this is a work in progress and represents an experiment on your part, even though it appears that you have given this a great deal of thought and deliberation.
I think it is a mistake to declare that one person is more deserving of your protection than any other. I think it would be helpful if you were to keep people connected rather than segregated. Perhaps you can state how the protection of the one from a particular insult also is protection the whole. Just be careful to avoid selective enforcement. I think it would be crucial to treat everyone equally and with the same standards of civility. If you are already doing this, it escapes a great many people.
I know that I underestimate you.
- Scott
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 11, 2013, at 5:37:56
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 18:46:10
Thank you, Dr. Bob.
Since I consider sh*t slinging to come from a place of great hurt (personally), I would prefer the last choice.
Support the slinger.
ha ha ha ha
Would that ever happen? By a choice compassionate few.There. It only took a thread of you dancing around the direct questions I posed to get a direct answer out of me.
PC
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 12, 2013, at 10:04:57
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world » Dr. Bob, posted by Partlycloudy on December 11, 2013, at 5:37:56
> if someone is in an unmoderated place where sh*t is being thrown, they have the option of growing a thicker skin or leaving the situation. Which would *always* be my choice. ... But ... this *isn't* an unmoderated situation and there is a reasonable expectation that rules will be fairly and consistently enforced towards all.
>
> DinahOK, if it's there's no moderator, you see the options as:
a. grow a thicker skin/use one's shield more effectively
b. leaveIf there's a moderator, those options remain. Do you also see additional options then?
--
> I wish you weren't so damned logical. This list of options makes a great deal of sense. It may be too idyllic a model, though. If no one has a shield for a particular insult, or no one with a shield cares to get involved, how will you protect the community from the insult and minimize the trauma to the individual?
>
> I think it is a mistake to declare that one person is more deserving of your protection than any other. I think it would be helpful if you were to keep people connected rather than segregated. ... I think it would be crucial to treat everyone equally and with the same standards of civility. If you are already doing this, it escapes a great many people.
>
> - ScottI agree, the Babble model may be too idyllic. Well, dream big.
I try to treat everyone fairly, and according to the same standards. I also try to connect posters. For example, sometimes I suggest that X may have something in common with Y.
I didn't mean to imply that anyone's more deserving of my protection. Is it OK to ask who's more in need of it?
If no one has a shield, maybe I should block the slinger. But if no one with a shield cares to get involved, maybe it makes sense to focus on that.
--
> Since I consider sh*t slinging to come from a place of great hurt (personally), I would prefer the last choice.
>
> Support the slinger.
>
> ha ha ha ha
> Would that ever happen? By a choice compassionate few.
>
> There. It only took a thread of you dancing around the direct questions I posed to get a direct answer out of me.
>
> PCThat was a direct answer? OK, I'll take what I can get.
I did list that option last for a reason.
I imagine that choice compassionate posters aren't few in number here, but feel inhibited by the vocal, and respected, subgroup pressing for sanctions.
Bob
Posted by Dinah on December 12, 2013, at 18:32:34
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by Dr. Bob on December 12, 2013, at 10:04:57
> > if someone is in an unmoderated place where sh*t is being thrown, they have the option of growing a thicker skin or leaving the situation. Which would *always* be my choice. ... But ... this *isn't* an unmoderated situation and there is a reasonable expectation that rules will be fairly and consistently enforced towards all.
> >
> > Dinah
>
> OK, if it's there's no moderator, you see the options as:
>
> a. grow a thicker skin/use one's shield more effectively
> b. leave
>
> If there's a moderator, those options remain. Do you also see additional options then?
Well, Dr. Bob. That's not really up to me. If a moderator chooses not to moderate, then effectively the situation is unmoderated. And my response would be what it always is in an unmoderated situation.I guess I'm just having a hard time with acceptance. Once I accept that Babble is what it is, I'll be better at leaving. I'm already better at acceptance than I was. I leave for weeks at a time now, without even glancing at Babble.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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