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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2012, at 15:21:25
In reply to Re: update » Dinah, posted by paisleygirl on January 19, 2012, at 14:28:03
Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood. If the DBT therapist is still available, I think you should call and make an appointment.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on January 19, 2012, at 17:56:51
In reply to Re: update » Dinah, posted by paisleygirl on January 19, 2012, at 14:28:03
I agree with Dinah. It didn't sound like you were banned from dbt, but that you just were not engaged in treatment with them. You could tell them you changed your mind.
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 19, 2012, at 18:56:27
In reply to Re: update » paisleygirl, posted by sleepygirl2 on January 19, 2012, at 17:56:51
I'm a little unclear on the DBT guy. You didn't keep a follow-up appointment and he sent you an email saying call 911 if you need help. But he didn't close the door on your reconnecting, right? Can you call him again and make an appointment? Of course, if you don't keep the appointment, he may drop you. This is something therapists take very seriously with good reason.
As far as ultimatums. Maybe if you start the DBT you can call your p-doc and ask if you might meet with her and discuss this. But my p-doc/therapist has twice given ultimatums and I took them very seriously. They really put a fire under me, because I cared so much about our relationship. When I first started, he insisted I attend an outpatient program and, after two days, I said I couldn't go. He said, in that case, he couldn't work with me. He was serious, so I went to the program and actually got a lot out of it. Later he told me that if I didn't get off opiates, he would not continue to see me. I started calling every suboxone clinic/provider in the area, found a good one and he tapered me off, which was a good outcome.
Therapists don't issue ultimatums to intimidate you or because they hate you. They have simply reached a point where they realize -- I can't help this person or deal with this person if they don't get additional resources. It is too much for me. They have their limits. Therapy is emotionally draining and they need to set boundaries for their own peace of mind. Once I asked my p-doc what our relationship was like for him and he said, it's intense. It's intense on both ends. He said it's not a job where you just go home and forget about everything, although you have to learn to do that to some degree.
Anyway, if I were you, paisleygirl, I would reconnect with the DBT guy and make a committment to it. (DBT therapists are very big on committments and contracts). If you are suicidal, go to the ER. You don't have to go to the hospital where you work. I know ER's suck and you wait and wait and wait. Another option is to connect with this DBT guy and ask him to help you get admitted. Some stand-alone psych hospitals do direct intakes if a therapist calls and arranges it without you having to go through an ER.
Posted by paisleygirl on January 19, 2012, at 22:51:42
In reply to Re: update, posted by emmanuel98 on January 19, 2012, at 18:56:27
i called dbt guy and emailed him asking basically if he would still consider seeing me... no response.. previously he would reply promptly... its been like all day. i dont think that's an option.
i just called pdoc/therapist and left an angry message- blaming her for leaving me b/c i wouldn't see dbt person, then saying dbt person won't see me, and that you left me without a psychiatrist and therapist and no referrals and after 4 YEARS and that i was angry and that ultimatums are unfair and i think i said i'm a suicidal person. but i didnt' mean immediately suicidal, just suicidal ideation. after hanging up the phone, i thought about calling back and clarifying that, but then i thought its already way too messed up so oh well. and i am actually not sure she is going to even listen to my message. she said she wouldn't read my emails. that she would just delete. i have a feeling if she hears my voice on her voicemail she'll just click delete too.
so the moral of the story is- i am all alone. and i have no official treatment people. i guess i have burned all my bridges. way to go me.
i kind of want to shout her name to the world and say she is a very bad therapist... how could i have trusted her at any time point. i dont know.. i dont get it.
Posted by paisleygirl on January 19, 2012, at 23:50:16
In reply to Re: update, posted by paisleygirl on January 19, 2012, at 22:51:42
oh i just got an angry email back from old pdoc/therapist telling me not to call her anymore.
lovely.
f*ck everyone. i give up.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2012, at 8:48:30
In reply to Re: update, posted by paisleygirl on January 19, 2012, at 23:50:16
It's probably just as well at this point to give up on old pdoc.
Try calling the DBT therapist and telling him why you didn't come back the first time, and how your situation has changed. Tell hm if you're willing to contract to commit to therapy.
Posted by paisleygirl on January 20, 2012, at 9:51:45
In reply to Re: update » paisleygirl, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2012, at 8:48:30
i dont want to give up on old pdoc. i'm crying.. noone loves me. i see no solution right now.
> It's probably just as well at this point to give up on old pdoc.
>
> Try calling the DBT therapist and telling him why you didn't come back the first time, and how your situation has changed. Tell hm if you're willing to contract to commit to therapy.
>
>
Posted by paisleygirl on January 20, 2012, at 9:53:33
In reply to Re: update » Dinah, posted by paisleygirl on January 20, 2012, at 9:51:45
i know i sound like a whiny baby.
i guess i'll stop posting.
im so retarded and f*ck*d up.
> i dont want to give up on old pdoc. i'm crying.. noone loves me. i see no solution right now.
>
>
>
>
> > It's probably just as well at this point to give up on old pdoc.
> >
> > Try calling the DBT therapist and telling him why you didn't come back the first time, and how your situation has changed. Tell hm if you're willing to contract to commit to therapy.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 20, 2012, at 18:41:44
In reply to Re: update, posted by paisleygirl on January 20, 2012, at 9:53:33
No. Keep posting. The worst thing to do when you're having a hard time is to walk away from help and tell yourself -- I'm whining, nobody cares. Believe me, I've been there. Keep posting and we will keep responding and helping as best we know how.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2012, at 19:41:17
In reply to Re: update, posted by paisleygirl on January 20, 2012, at 9:53:33
You wouldn't judge others so harshly would you?
I've told you I've had a similar experience with a pdoc. Would you call me those things?
I'm sorry you are losing a trusted pdoc. Losing my therapist is one of my biggest fears. It's a big loss.
Posted by paisleygirl on January 21, 2012, at 11:20:10
In reply to Re: update, posted by emmanuel98 on January 20, 2012, at 18:41:44
i dont know. i appreciate you guys' support, but i feel all alone in real life.
i've concluded when people get to know me, they then hate me, and then they leave me.
> No. Keep posting. The worst thing to do when you're having a hard time is to walk away from help and tell yourself -- I'm whining, nobody cares. Believe me, I've been there. Keep posting and we will keep responding and helping as best we know how.
Posted by paisleygirl on January 21, 2012, at 11:29:05
In reply to Re: update » paisleygirl, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2012, at 19:41:17
i dont think i would judge others as harshly, but its different when its yourself.
i think too old pdoc, i'm chronically suicidal, chronically self-destructive, chronically looking for ways to make my situation worse, and that i dont know how to get better.
i just keep going down this tunnel and hitting new er and newer lows.
i've never felt as alone in the world as i do have.
i realize over the past months to years, i have isolated myself from all of my old close friends.
i'm like a stranger now. and i think i've turned into a ghost of a person.i've done bad stuff. and i know better.
i've cut, i've looked for old men online to hurt me and abuse me- and then met up with several regularly. really self-destructive stuff. ive taken too much tylenol from time to time, but not enough to cause ultimate fulminant liver damage.and i guess to my old pdoc i ignored her recommendation regarding dbt treatment, but really i dont think i did that on purpose. i think the true reason is i feel like i cannot afford it. well actually not "i feel like", i really cannot afford it at this time. i'm behind in all my bills as it is.
i have no family i can turn to for support, my friends are gone and if i try to get back in their lives with this stuff, they are going to just think i'm psycho and scary and not the same person i was. if i say anything to my boss or people at work to try and get help, it will just look bad, and i will get into more trouble at work.
so i really think i've calmed down and have thought things through. i just dont know what to do. i dont see a solution.
even if i saw a new pdoc tomorrow, which i dont think is possible, i have a very hard time trusting people and i'm not going to just blab out "oh by the way, i have thoughts of killing myself like several times a day". it takes time to build up trust to let someone know that in person for me.
i could prescribe myself some prozac and re-start that, but that will take a couple weeks to have an effect.
i dont know. i am hurt by old pdoc. i feel alone. she's just another person to add to the list of people who have abandoned me. i agree i was difficult. i dont think i meant to be. i dont know.
so confused so confused.
sorry that i just rattled off what i was thinking.> You wouldn't judge others so harshly would you?
>
> I've told you I've had a similar experience with a pdoc. Would you call me those things?
>
> I'm sorry you are losing a trusted pdoc. Losing my therapist is one of my biggest fears. It's a big loss.
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2012, at 11:42:35
In reply to Re: update » Dinah, posted by paisleygirl on January 21, 2012, at 11:29:05
DBT sounds perfect for you. The feelings you are struggling with are feelings that DBT was meant to deal with. The founder of DBT based her treatment approach on her own familiarity with those feelings and it's obvious.
Can you afford DBT now that you no longer have to pay a psychiatrist?
Have you tried other medications than SSRI's? I actually started self injuring on Luvox, and self injured far less off Luvox. A mood stabilizer definitely helped while I was on Luvox. But the medication that helped me most was low dose Risperdal taken when I was feeling the onset of a meltdown. A good psychiatrist helped me immensely and had the detachment that self medication doesn't provide.
Medications were most helpful in that they gave me a base to tolerate therapy.
Is your job in any jeopardy? My therapist always considered any actions that jeopardized my employment as jeopardizing therapy, since they affected my ability to pay.
Is the DBT treatment covered by insurance, in or out of network? Do they have sliding scale rates? What problem solving can you do involving the affordability of the program?
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2012, at 11:46:04
In reply to Re: update, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2012, at 11:42:35
In the meantime, can you borrow a copy of "Skills Training for Treating Manual Borderline Personality Disorder" or "Cognitive Behavior Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder"?
The latter actually helped me more than the former. I had so many "ah-hah" moments reading it.
Posted by paisleygirl on January 21, 2012, at 14:29:24
In reply to Re: update, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2012, at 11:46:04
i dont want to have borderline personality disorder
> In the meantime, can you borrow a copy of "Skills Training for Treating Manual Borderline Personality Disorder" or "Cognitive Behavior Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder"?
>
> The latter actually helped me more than the former. I had so many "ah-hah" moments reading it.
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2012, at 15:09:16
In reply to Re: update » Dinah, posted by paisleygirl on January 21, 2012, at 14:29:24
I don't meet the diagnostic criteria and have never been diagnosed with it. But I still found myself in her books. Don't get hung up on the label. Despite the book names, her treatments weren't designed for borderline clients. They were designed for clients with suicidal and self injuring tendencies. She talks about labile emotions.
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 21, 2012, at 18:22:55
In reply to Re: update » Dinah, posted by paisleygirl on January 21, 2012, at 14:29:24
> i dont want to have borderline personality disorder
Why? What's so terrible about that? The things you write -- fear of abandonment, self-harming, undermining relationships with p-doc and DBT therapist, feeling isolated, hated, unable to get help -- these are common borderline traits. I have (or used to have) a lot of borderline traits. DBT and therapy have helped.DBT works for a lot of conditions but it is especially helpful for people given to despair, suicidality, emotional dysregulation, self-harm behaviors. Like Dinah said, maybe if you aren't seeing a p-doc, you can afford DBT.
As far as meds go, like Dinah, I take risperidone on a prn basis. Very infrequently since it makes me gain weight. I take it with ativan to knock me out when I get suicidal and agitated. 12-14 hours of sleep really makes me feel much better.
Do you have insurance? If you're a resident, you
must have insurance. You could get a scrip for risperidone from a primary care doctor.There are options. You're not out of options and you're not alone.
Like Dinah said, if you can't work directly with someone on DBT, you could buy the skills training manual. Amazon has it. It's not the same as working with a therapist or in a group, but it can be very helpful.
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2012, at 7:19:35
In reply to Re: update » Dinah, posted by paisleygirl on January 21, 2012, at 14:29:24
Have you been able to get in touch with the DBT therapist?
Posted by paisleygirl on January 25, 2012, at 14:40:23
In reply to How are you doing? » paisleygirl, posted by Dinah on January 25, 2012, at 7:19:35
nope he ignored me and didn't write or call back.
Posted by paisleygirl on January 25, 2012, at 15:21:29
In reply to Re: How are you doing? » Dinah, posted by paisleygirl on January 25, 2012, at 14:40:23
i'm actually really upset b/c of my cutting... the major one hasn't healed well and it's been 9 days.
i'm really worried.
i'm scared i f*ck*d up my leg for forever.
it says a word. so its even worse.
i'm so angry with myself.
i dont know what i'm going to do.
i'm scared it can't be fixed.
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2012, at 18:05:49
In reply to Re: How are you doing?, posted by paisleygirl on January 25, 2012, at 15:21:29
Is it infected? If it's infected, you need to get it taken care of.
Did you contact him after the first time? How did you contact him? Did he respond at all? I'd call again, be very clear that your monetary situation has changed because your pdoc is no longer a cost and that you are now willing to commit to therapy. Apologize, if an apology is called for, for not telling him the reasons behind your decision to cancel the last appointment. If the answer is no, you can start looking into other alternatives.
Posted by paisleygirl on January 25, 2012, at 18:07:33
In reply to Re: How are you doing?, posted by paisleygirl on January 25, 2012, at 15:21:29
i bought a scar cream called scarguard at my local pharmacy.
right now my leg has a huge red word on it "hate".
if my scar doesn't get markedly better by tuesday night i have decided i am going to jump off the top of my bldg.
i think that i am really upset about the scar. i am also really upset about life. i want my scar to get better. but i also feel like then this is in God's hands. if my scar doesn't get better markedly- i dont want to be able to read the word and see the redness- then i will kill myself.
i actually really don't care.
i am just going to make sure someone will take great care of my dog.
if its my fate to live, my scar will heal. if it's my fate to die, i will kill myself.
i feel at ease and comforted by this plan. i just need to get my stuff in order to prepare.
i want to tell people it wasn't their fault, i was hurting too much, and it was my decision, and that i would want everyone to be happy. that i just couldn't figure out how to be happy myself.
i also want to sign out my work stuff to colleagues so that i'm not irresponsible and leave people hanging.
Posted by paisleygirl on January 25, 2012, at 18:09:42
In reply to Re: How are you doing?, posted by Dinah on January 25, 2012, at 18:05:49
its not infected. just very red.
i dont want to deal with that dbt therapist. i didn't get a good feeling about him anyways.
i want to leave all therapists/psych people alone.
> Is it infected? If it's infected, you need to get it taken care of.
>
> Did you contact him after the first time? How did you contact him? Did he respond at all? I'd call again, be very clear that your monetary situation has changed because your pdoc is no longer a cost and that you are now willing to commit to therapy. Apologize, if an apology is called for, for not telling him the reasons behind your decision to cancel the last appointment. If the answer is no, you can start looking into other alternatives.
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2012, at 18:24:21
In reply to Re: How are you doing?, posted by paisleygirl on January 25, 2012, at 18:07:33
You know, paisleygirl, that doesn't sound like a wise decision at all. I know you're angry. But I can't see where that's in your best interests.
Pain comes. Nearly unbearable pain. Where it feels like you can't walk one step more. But pain goes as well. There isn't a constant level of pain. It's foolish to make permanent decisions in the crest of a period of pain.
Life can get better. It's gotten better for me, and for a lot of people. It can get better for you as well. It might require some difficult and distasteful work. But it can happen.
You need to get your medications attended to. Have you had any recent changes? Since you don't have a pdoc right now, please do go to the ER. Maybe an AP like Risperdal would be as helpful to you as it was to me. It would be a damn shame to kill yourself without finding out. It would be a damn shame for *you*. The closest I ever came to acting on a suicidal impulse was when I was on Wellbutrin. I had a moment of clarity where I realized that I didn't feel this totally jumpy/awful before Wellbutrin. I got angry and thought I'd be damned if I let the Wellbutrin cause me to do something idiotic. The mood stabilizers helped. Risperdal helped a lot, and long term therapy helped a lot.
Don't cheat yourself of the chance to find out what will help you.
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2012, at 18:31:34
In reply to Re: How are you doing? » Dinah, posted by paisleygirl on January 25, 2012, at 18:09:42
And this might have nothing to do with you, but when I was feeling angry and self injuring or thinking of suicide, I often thought that people would be very sorry when they saw how much they hurt me.
The truth is that people, particularly psych professionals, are well armored. I'd have been mighty disappointed if I could have seen my therapist when he found out what I'd done. He wouldn't have taken away the message I was trying to send him. And of course, I couldn't have seen him anyway. Dead doesn't work like that.
If that has nothing to do with the way you think, then fine. You can ignore it and see this as something I felt and you didn't.
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