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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by CharlieGrll on April 25, 2009, at 22:09:10
Hi.
I feel bad because this is my first post and it is all about me but I honestly don't know where to go. I have been working with my T for 10 years.
My T has cancer. Diagnosed 12 months ago. Secondaries in his liver. There ain't no getting better from secondaries in the liver.
We have talked about his illness. He was diagnosed 2 weeks after my mother was with secondaries in her liver. I cared for her. so we got to talk alot about living with a terminal illness. His health has travelled a lot better than Mom's. She died last October. (Dad died 3 years ago)
Til now. I was going to see him for my weekly session but I had a cold. He asked me not to come because his immune system is shot. I understood 100%. I rang to make another time to find out he was in hospital. He has been bed ridden since Easter. So of course I have not got to see him.
Grief upon grief. Panic. My world is upside down and I don't know what to do. He has always been there~ my sane island in a world of chaos. I can't talk to him to work out what to do.
So I'm here.
Posted by obsidian on April 25, 2009, at 22:52:18
In reply to My Therapist is dying..., posted by CharlieGrll on April 25, 2009, at 22:09:10
oh god charliegrll, I'm so very sorry, for you and for your therapist
it's just not fair :-(
I can't begin to know how I'd deal with that,
talking with him about his having a terminal illness has had to be extremely difficult.
I'm impressed that he could do it.
Do you have someone to talk about this with?
Posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2009, at 23:31:44
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying... » CharlieGrll, posted by obsidian on April 25, 2009, at 22:52:18
Welcome to babble how horrible all those losses in such a short time. Is there a grief group somewhere near you. Truly horrible. I feel for you. Love Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2009, at 2:19:07
In reply to My Therapist is dying..., posted by CharlieGrll on April 25, 2009, at 22:09:10
I am so sorry. It can only imagine how you are feeling. Such a loss.
Did the two of you discuss this possibility, and what your therapist thought you should do? Does he have a colleague who has agreed to be there for his clients in this eventuality? Or did he give you some names? My therapist has given me a list of three people, I think, that he thought I could work with, if God forbid, something should happen to him. Or he promised to give me a list. I think I've blocked it out.
The loss of a long term therapist is a significant loss, piled on top of other significant losses. While no one can replace your therapist, it could help a lot to have someone in person who can understand and help you sort things out. As of course Babblers do.
Posted by CharlieGrll on April 26, 2009, at 4:27:21
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying... » CharlieGrll, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2009, at 2:19:07
Thank you for all the replies.
It's strange but we have not actually discussed what to do when he is not well enough to work. (I can see that niether of us wanted to go there)
This decline has happened so FAST. He kept assuring me that he was not planning on dying soon. Looks like reality has other ideas...
I am hoping that there will be the opportunity for one more conversation. Even if it is literally to say goodbye. I think I am wondering what if there is not the opportunity to see him one more time. He works from home ~ so I know where he lives. Do I call and make a time just to "chat"?? I'be be happy with 5 minutes. then again is that asking too much? Of him and his family?? He told his family that it was ok for them to tell me how he was doing when he went in for surgery. He didn't do that with everybody.
I want him to get better. I hate cancer. I know he is going to die and there is nothing I can do. the idea of finding somebody else is unthinkable at the moment. Like I'm saying he is already dead. He is my therapist. I am not sharing that with anybody else. Am I being precious?
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2009, at 8:27:31
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying..., posted by CharlieGrll on April 26, 2009, at 4:27:21
I'm really sorry he didn't discuss these things with you very early. Before he thought it was realistically likely you would need to know, and before it would have been quite as emotionally loaded. Or that he didn't make arrangements with a colleague. I'm constantly asking my therapist these questions, and he's not even ill.
I understand your feelings of not wanting anyone else to be "your therapist". After Katrina and a month or more evacuation, my therapist moved to a city three or so hours away, then took a job in Europe that left him gone for six weeks. Eventually we worked out a way to see him occasionally, and then he moved back home. But for a while I thought it likely that I'd lost him. I did choose to find another therapist to talk about my distress. Not for a moment did I consider that therapist to be *my* therapist.
I think in this case, it might be seen as a consultation. Someone to ask advice of, someone to help you work out what to do next. Or it could be seen as grief counseling. One wouldn't really have grief counseling with the person you're grieving.
Or you might feel that after all the work you've done with this therapist, you are strong enough to face this alone.
My therapist and I have discussed the sort of questions you're asking now, about whether you should call to see him. He says things that I know he means now, in this moment, but that he might not mean when he's feeling like cr*p and is lacking in energy. I understand your desire to see him just one last time. Do you think he would call you if he was able to? He knows how you feel about him. Does he have any staff you could call? You know the situation better than we do. What do you think he and his family are up to doing?
Posted by CharlieGrll on April 26, 2009, at 9:39:19
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying... » CharlieGrll, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2009, at 8:27:31
Thank you Dinah
I *like* your thought that grieving with the person who is the grieved is a big ask. And the idea of a consult with somebody else. hmmm telling somebody else about how I feel on the other hand... now there's a challenge.
re staff. His wife is the person who answers the phone for him. She is happy for me to call and see how he is. He has called me once or twice before over the years but I don't think he has the energy any more. Do I ask if I can come and say goodbye? If I can't do that I could write to him and then burn it.
I need to see him. He is not well enough. Time to find a way to let this pain out. that does not involve him. now that's a challenge!!
Posted by MollieQ on April 26, 2009, at 9:45:38
In reply to My Therapist is dying..., posted by CharlieGrll on April 25, 2009, at 22:09:10
((((((((((((Charlie Grll))))))))))))))
My hear goes out to you. The terminal illness of someone who is one of our primary attachments is one of the most stressful and painful experiences we humans can face. Of course you know this, having lost both of your parents. I am so sorry.
The fact that this is your T, who has played such a central role in your life for so many years, is especially challenging. You cannot be there with his family, although you remain part of his life and therefore remain in his mind. Your T is incredibly courageous to be able to confront his illness in a way that allows him to help you come to terms with his illness. I'm so impressed that he is allowing you to get information about his condition from his family. Feeling informed must help you deal with the inevitable anxiety. Plus it is a lovely way for him to show you how much you mean to each other. He sounds like a wonderful T.
As far as taking care of you, you've done the first thing on the list - reach out to other people. Babble is here pretty much 24/7 and although you won't get replies around the clock (and don't be discouraged if the rate of response varies, it's less about your post as about other posters' real life activities and commitments at the time), you can post as often as you need to. And be as open about your thoughts and feelings as you need to be. This board is a place where what you are going through will be understood deeply and in a way that others just won't get.
I've not looked this up yet, because it just occurred to me, but I'm pretty sure there are short-term MH professionals who specialize in patients with terminal diseases. They also are responsive to the needs of the survivors - family, close friends, and other important relationships. Such a service might be very helpful to you. You might try getting in touch with the national or state groups (e.g. APA) for psychologists, social workers, etc for leads. Many years ago I had a young psychiatrist who I saw for a short while but liked very much. I later heard this person later specialized in therapy for terminally ill cancer patients and survivors (thanatology?). And there are of course grief specialists. Cancer groups and hospices might be able to point you to someone who specializes in this. If whoever you find appears not to "get it" as to why you are so distressed, seems unempathic, just walk away and look for someone else because that is the wrong person. You need someone who really understands this particular experience and can help you through with support and undrstanding. Such short-term support could help get you through the acute stages and help you handle the first intensity of your grief. It never ceases to amaze me that there are so many wonderful people out there who are so compassionate and willing to help others deal with death and dying, a topic that is met with such avoidance in our culture.
Also short-term, make sure you are vigilant with all the self-care steps you can take for yourself. Try not to let depression take root in the face of your grief. You may remember what worked best (or not) when your parents died. Take care of your body, make time for recreation, use distraction, try to find fun where you can. Get involved in activities, especially those that let you do satisfying or fun things with other people.
I'll stop here because hopefully your T will recover from the immediate physical crisis and be back out of hospital soon and able to meet or talk with you again by phone. Dinah's suggestion about getting names of T's that he thinks might suit you over the longer-haul seems particularly important. You may or may not want to do long-term work with another T, but you may need support for the months (or more) that it may take to process the loss of your T. There are others on Babble, e.g. 10derHeart and TherapyGirl (forgive me - I know there have been others) , who have struggled with the loss of a long-term T to retirement. Although this is not quite the same, from their point of view, the ending of that relationship feels like a death. You are not alone in your feelings.
Again, I am so sorry, Charlie Grll. It is so very, very hard to lose someone we love. That is one of the things that makes us human, and sometimes it seems a very high price to pay.
Mollie
Posted by SLS on April 26, 2009, at 9:57:56
In reply to My Therapist is dying..., posted by CharlieGrll on April 25, 2009, at 22:09:10
> Grief upon grief. Panic. My world is upside down and I don't know what to do. He has always been there~ my sane island in a world of chaos. I can't talk to him to work out what to do.
>
> So I'm here.
You are not alone in the world. You know that, or you wouldn't be here. It is so sad that you have lost so many people in such a short period of time.If we are lucky, we grieve. I think it is more difficult if we do not allow ourselves to grieve. It causes much confusion.
You really don't have much choice in these matters other than how you deal with them cognitively and emotionally. It would be nice to have help with this. It seems that you don't. Trust your mind. It will automatically pass through the stages of grieving if you allow it to.
For the most part, I see the utility in using a Kubler-Ross type model to understand grief. Kubler-Ross studied people with terminal illnesses. However, the model she came up with seems to be helpful in the understanding of grief in general.
I know this is a rather "cold" post, however, I am sure you will get through this bad time. I have come to lose people who are close to me, most recently my grandmother. I guess I can empathize to some degree how different your world is now compared to the way it was a few months ago. Everything is different. It is scary. It is surreal. It is beyond pain. What happened to your ordinary world? It will never be the same. It seems hopeless now, but you will build upon what is rather than lament what is not. There is still a bright and wonderful world waiting for you to interact with. Isolation in the early stages of grieving is normal.
I am impressed that you reached out so honestly and openly in a forum that you had never posted in before. I think this demonstrates the character of a person who is positive and constructive, and who plays an active role in their growth as a human being.
- Scott
Posted by Sigismund on April 27, 2009, at 3:40:17
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying..., posted by SLS on April 26, 2009, at 9:57:56
>It is scary. It is surreal. It is beyond pain.
It reminds you that everything living dies and everything passes.
Posted by CharlieGrll on April 27, 2009, at 6:41:32
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying..., posted by Sigismund on April 27, 2009, at 3:40:17
Sigismund right now I don't feel philosophical about what is happening. I am struggling to put words to my emotions. Knowing something does not last for ever does not change the loss of when it does go.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 27, 2009, at 14:50:13
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying... » Sigismund, posted by CharlieGrll on April 27, 2009, at 6:41:32
I didn't get the sense that he meant it like that. I got the sense that he meant that this could be hard for you precisely because it does confront you with the fact that everything dies. Everything passes. Being confronted with mortality can be a hard thing for humans to deal with, indeed.
Posted by Sigismund on April 27, 2009, at 16:06:21
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying... » Sigismund, posted by CharlieGrll on April 27, 2009, at 6:41:32
I didn't mean to be philosophical. I meant that everything is changing before our eyes. It often fills me with deep fear, actually, as I am a person who does not like change.
Posted by CharlieGrll on April 27, 2009, at 16:09:14
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying..., posted by alexandra_k on April 27, 2009, at 14:50:13
Oops. Sorry Sigismund and thank you Alex.K. The big picture is a bit elusive at the moment. It is hitting me in the face and I cannot see it.
Posted by Sigismund on April 27, 2009, at 23:11:19
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying..., posted by CharlieGrll on April 27, 2009, at 16:09:14
I'm glad you're not angry. I've been worrying about this all morning, and am sorry for being insensitive.
Did you say how long you have known your T has had cancer for?
When I was in therapy my T went away for a year which was disastrous for me, and we had almost a year in which to talk about it.
What I meant before was something like this....
We go along in our little bubble thinking everything is permanent, and then something like this happens and the brute fact is staring you in the face, whether you have any warning or not. Sometimes that has been good for me, because people want to talk about the important stuff.I was never any good at therapeutic endings anyway, but I would be trying to say goodbye, just from one human to another, someone you knew who touched you.
Posted by CharlieGrll on April 28, 2009, at 3:49:49
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying... » CharlieGrll, posted by Sigismund on April 27, 2009, at 23:11:19
Sigismund thank you for your last post.
My T was diagnosed just under a year ago. He has been fine. Chemo had kept tumours at bay. Til now. He has been quite clear that he is not going to die in a hurry. Knowing what a strong willed man he is I have not doubted that (much). Reality is definitely not what we planned.
I am hoping to speak to him soon. He sent me a text message saying he hoped to be well enough for a visit. So here's hoping. And hoping I know what to say and what not to say.
Posted by Dinah on April 28, 2009, at 8:08:39
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying... » Sigismund, posted by CharlieGrll on April 28, 2009, at 3:49:49
I knew he'd contact you if he can.
I'm guessing you'll know the right thing to say when you get there and see what he's up to discussing.
Posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2009, at 19:57:36
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying... » CharlieGrll, posted by Dinah on April 28, 2009, at 8:08:39
I interpret to mean that if your're close enough that he thought to invite you for a visit that I'd go as a friend. Might bring small gift. I'm sure you know what he likes? Love Phillipa
Posted by CharlieGrll on April 29, 2009, at 3:34:06
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying..., posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2009, at 19:57:36
My T lives 175 miles away. I will ring him Friday and see how he is and if it is a social visit or a working one. It is worrying me that I have a nasty cold. So I should not see him. But that is a few days away and I am taking one day at a time.
Hmm a gift. I will ponder that.
Posted by Phillipa on April 29, 2009, at 20:03:50
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying... » Phillipa, posted by CharlieGrll on April 29, 2009, at 3:34:06
That's quite a drive. Please stay or get well. A Book? Something simple???? Love Phillipa
Posted by CharlieGrll on May 1, 2009, at 19:32:02
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying... » CharlieGrll, posted by Phillipa on April 29, 2009, at 20:03:50
Well Today's the day I get to see him. I thought I would be happy, relieved looking forward to it. But I am not. I feel sick, apprehensive and don't want to go.
I am wondering if he will be the same. Or will he have the "cancer look". will this be our last time? oh dear the anxiety can drive my bus!!
thank you for listening
Posted by Phillipa on May 1, 2009, at 21:56:49
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying..., posted by CharlieGrll on May 1, 2009, at 19:32:02
Good luck let me know how it goes. Phillipa
Posted by CharlieGrll on May 2, 2009, at 8:15:10
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying... » CharlieGrll, posted by Phillipa on May 1, 2009, at 21:56:49
Hello Everybody
well I am back from my epic voyage. T was sick not from the cancer but the chemo. Somebody stuffed up his dosages. so he is now back on deck for a bit longer.
It was strange talking to him about life without him. Like drinking flat coke... I had a good cry. then somehow it was back to life with me!!
We have agreed that I will trust him to know when to stop work. And he will work with me through that. So I am going to stop worrying about him... Well enough to to get on with my life instead of immersed in grief.
Posted by Dinah on May 2, 2009, at 9:13:26
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying..., posted by CharlieGrll on May 2, 2009, at 8:15:10
That is wonderful! I'm so happy for you.
I agree that you can't spend your remaining time immersed in grief. But unfortunately many therapists don't really like to plan for unpleasant contingencies. No matter how unpleasant it is for him (or you), it's his duty to help you prepare for how to deal with something happening to him. And speaking from personal experience, this is a less wrenching thing to do when it isn't an immediate necessity. I know it feels *awful* to ask for a list of people he feels you would work well with. I have pressed my therapist to give me a list of names, and he was pretty reluctant to think of anything happening to him. But even the healthiest of therapists die suddenly. Or move, or whatever.
I know therapy's supposed to be about you, not him. But he's someone very important to you.
Posted by antigua3 on June 1, 2009, at 6:41:44
In reply to Re: My Therapist is dying..., posted by CharlieGrll on May 1, 2009, at 19:32:02
This is the end of the thread.
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