![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by desolationrower on April 25, 2009, at 1:52:15
she said she can bring over current clients, but maybe its a good time to think about if i want to continue. i'm not sure if shes trying to say i might do better with someone else? or maybe she just wants to focus on some different issues - the place she'll be working does eating disorders, which i don't have. although other than that, i had orginially thought her interests looked like what i needed, and i don't feel all that far from 'eating disorders' - i think they are very much about trying to change yourself so others like you, and i think i do quite a lot of self-focused behavioral checking because i'm very aware of what type of behaviours people like and which they don't.
so i'm not sure if maybe i should try a new therapist? i sort of hate asking her more directly, she's not that experienced (although i wanted someone about my age, as the transference in the previous tpist was like talking to a parent, and that isn't the kind of relationship i have problems with), so i guess i feel like i don't want to talk about things because it might end with us deciding she's not helping me. i guess thats not really a good way to think of therapist-client relationship, but its probably not unusual for me, i don't really fear other's disapprobation so much as i fear creeping others out or making them feel bad.
has anyone any advice or experience with this. its probably worht noting i don't have trouble forming a relationship or opening up at all. i have had one therapist i thought was a douchebag so i only saw him twice.
also i've often thought i'd be much more helped by a therapist or life coach or something who instead of going to an office, we went to a coffee shop or bar and he or she just did real-life kind of socializing where we'd talk a bit and then they'd help me start conversations with people. do any therapists do something like that? since exposure didn't really work and was very unpleasant i've quit doing it and probably can't even force myself to anymore.
-d/r
Posted by SLS on April 25, 2009, at 5:49:34
In reply to my therapist is taking a new position, posted by desolationrower on April 25, 2009, at 1:52:15
Hi d/r.
I have absolutely no advice to give you. I am out of my element. I am just glad to see you posting in a forum that I believe could help you gain some insights that help you to make an important decision.
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2009, at 13:12:36
In reply to Re: my therapist is taking a new position, posted by SLS on April 25, 2009, at 5:49:34
d/r me too didn't know you saw a therapist. Love seeing you trying new boards to others d/r is a great person in my opinion. Love Phillipa
Posted by garnet71 on April 25, 2009, at 13:28:12
In reply to my therapist is taking a new position, posted by desolationrower on April 25, 2009, at 1:52:15
That's a great idea. There's tons of life coaches, but maybe that's something insurance wouldn't pay for? Or maybe it crosses professional boundaries for a clinical therapist (but not life coach) to go out places, even if its only therapuetic-I don't know, just thinking out loud.
Okay, well here's an idea if you could go out w/a friend or family member to a bar. To start your practice, go to a little dive/local bar, (don't pick a classy place) like a little sports bar or something. Go on a Tuesday night when it's not too crowded, or during a bad thunderstorm which influences peoplel's behavior somehow (don't ask me to explain this now).
There are always people that would like to meet people but don't take the initiative for whatever reason, trust me there. There are people sitting there going over their problems, their trivial day-to-day annoyances. People crave pleasure or joy or whatever. People crave personal connections and to escape from the doldrums.
So I'm not the life-of-the-party type, hate being the center of attention, but like to have fun as a way to connect w/people. So to give you an example of what I have done in the past--one time in an uncroweded bar I picked someone out who looked serious-has a lot on their mind, had a suit on after work. Looked like he was having a bad day... so I was talking to my friend and laughing and stuff and I noticed he kept glancing over...seemed like he was longing for some companionship..just could tell. So I just went over and snuck behind him and put some icecubes down his back....he loved it and it made his day..then the whole quiet bar turned into a party, we unded up getting big pitchers of ice cubes and dumping them on people, and having ice battles, and everyone ended up drenched at the end of the night. What's neat is that everyone joined in--people you'd never expect. So maybe you and your friend could start something like that to ease the tension. If you have trouble talking, maybe playing with ice (I know sounds stupid but I mean doing a prank or something) could ease you up because you wouldn't have to talk.
People w/o social anxiety are shy and have trouble striking up conversations and stuff. or people are inhibited. I like to bring that out in people. I guess you have to really be able to read people though, cause I'd imagine you could piss someone off with my tactics..but I think you are good at that, I mean reading people (not pissing off people).
So maybe start off and pick some cute girl who looks lonely or distracted or whatever and pull a little prank on her. Of course buying a drink and sending it over to a girl is flattering (if the guy is nice!!). You can remain at a distance while you do that, just to get used to interacting-you wouldn't have to go over and meet her. Like have the bartender do something silly to the drink, like if she's drinking fufu drinks, have him/her make a big smiley face w/the fruit on top-cherries and pineapple (you could hold it together with tootpicks or something; well you're creative enough to figure out how to do that), and tell the bartender to tell the girl "someone thought you could use a smile today". You wouldn't have to talk to her, but it would be a baby step for you, and you could practice initiating connections that way.
Okay, got lots more ideas but I know you can't read long notes. lol
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on April 26, 2009, at 18:40:07
In reply to my therapist is taking a new position, posted by desolationrower on April 25, 2009, at 1:52:15
((((((((((((((d/r)))))))))))))
If you don't do hugs well, does that mean you don't accept them? :-) Because I really want to give you one now.
I empathize--it's hard figuring this stuff out, and especially, I think it is quite hard to find a therapist who fits, and once you do, its a bummer when that person is moving on.
Can you ring up your therapist and ask her if this is her way of seeing that you might do better with someone else? Therapeutically, I think doing so would be very good for you. There are a lot of social and coping skills that have to be employed to do that.
I think, part of us being healthy individuals in the world is to recognize our own needs and to let go of having to be in charge of others' needs. If you ask your therapist what this means, it is her own responsibility if she feels bad as a result. And if she does feel badly--she isn't that great of a therapist then, is she? She is human, yes, but she has been (ideally) trained to learn to separate her feelings from the client's needs.
And too, if really, part of this is that she wants you to see someone else, then she isn't that great of a therapist b/c she hasn't come out and said that--she hasn't been direct with you. So by asking her, you are using coping skills *and* getting to know more about her own skills.
I hear from your post that you are also afraid of hearing that the therapeutic relationship isn't working. I get that...but there are probably other qualified therapists in your area that are your age, that you would do well with, no? What routes have taken to find a psychologist? I would actually call around to agencies with a list of prepared questions. I have rung up psychologists and said things like, "I am looking for a new therapy relationship, and, if you are accepting new patients, would like to ask you a few questions..." And if I were you, I would say, "I think I need someone more my age. I don't want to ask an intrusive question, but why don't I tell you my age." And if the person is way too old, you can ask for advice in finding someone in your age range.
Coaching may be a good idea, too, although insurance never pays for it. Coaches are goal-oriented: you work with a coach to build goals for yourself in your life, and then work on those goals, using your coach as a motivator and tool-provider. So its not at all about talking about your troubles; its really about goals and education and motivation. Like you, I would like to go that route...I wish that I could afford it.
I hope I'm been some help to you in some way. You are obviously such a valuable member of this community; you are generous in your help and genius in your suggestions.
Any new thoughts about this situation with your therapist?
> she said she can bring over current clients, but maybe its a good time to think about if i want to continue. i'm not sure if shes trying to say i might do better with someone else? or maybe she just wants to focus on some different issues - the place she'll be working does eating disorders, which i don't have. although other than that, i had orginially thought her interests looked like what i needed, and i don't feel all that far from 'eating disorders' - i think they are very much about trying to change yourself so others like you, and i think i do quite a lot of self-focused behavioral checking because i'm very aware of what type of behaviours people like and which they don't.
>
> so i'm not sure if maybe i should try a new therapist? i sort of hate asking her more directly, she's not that experienced (although i wanted someone about my age, as the transference in the previous tpist was like talking to a parent, and that isn't the kind of relationship i have problems with), so i guess i feel like i don't want to talk about things because it might end with us deciding she's not helping me. i guess thats not really a good way to think of therapist-client relationship, but its probably not unusual for me, i don't really fear other's disapprobation so much as i fear creeping others out or making them feel bad.
>
> has anyone any advice or experience with this. its probably worht noting i don't have trouble forming a relationship or opening up at all. i have had one therapist i thought was a douchebag so i only saw him twice.
>
> also i've often thought i'd be much more helped by a therapist or life coach or something who instead of going to an office, we went to a coffee shop or bar and he or she just did real-life kind of socializing where we'd talk a bit and then they'd help me start conversations with people. do any therapists do something like that? since exposure didn't really work and was very unpleasant i've quit doing it and probably can't even force myself to anymore.
>
> -d/r
Posted by Garnet71 on April 27, 2009, at 0:51:29
In reply to my therapist is taking a new position, posted by desolationrower on April 25, 2009, at 1:52:15
You need to worry about getting better--not how the therapist feels about you or your decision, not why she said this/that, or not how you will make her feel...Do what's best for you.
Have you noticed any changes during your time with this therapist? If not, maybe it is time for a change. You said yourself you've tried exposure and now can't get yourself to do it. Is that progress? Maybe a change will be what sets you on a new path.
I think it's helpful sometimes to have rotating therapists--escpecially if you haven't made progress--to have people of different education/background/experience/skills/cognitive type, etc. I've had 3 different ones for the most part--each had something to offer that the other did not.
Maybe that is part of social anxiety-these thoughts running through your mind...(or maybe social anxiety is hurting your self-esteem). It's very obvious...that you are having a fear of being judged/social anxiety when making this decision (rather than using your logic):
- i sort of hate asking her more directly
- i'm not sure if shes trying to say i might do better with someone else
- i feel like i don't want to talk about things because it might end with us deciding she's not helping me
- i don't really fear other's disapprobation so much as i fear creeping others out or making them feel bad.Which is why..again...you need to make a decision based on your progress, what's best for you..don't evaluate reactions, feelings; evaluate it is a problem solving issue. Fear of another person's reaction to a perfectly reasonable decision that is important to you, such as displeasing someone, can be a huge sign of self-esteem problems.
I may have said this before, but I think w/your social anxiety you first have to accept yourself in totality before you can make change. Accept the good and bad. This does not mean you like social anxiety or not intend to change, it means that this problem will not be solved until you first realize there is a person there that people like to begin with-social anxiety and all. Of course, most people don't get a chance to know you, but if they did, they would like you just the way you are. I think that's the core to successfully beating it. F*ck, I wish I could explain this better to you...your doing this in the wrong order.
I really think you are looking at this from the wrong angle--this decision, your treatment. I think you should change your goal from trying to change yourself to 'get others to accept you' to first accepting yourself. When you figure that out, change in social interaction will come a lot easier from your efforts. You probably have already decided people are not going to like you before you even meet them. Maybe cognitive based therapy should come later for you?
I'm guessing you are seeing a cognitive therapist rather than psychoanalysist? Try the opposite if you haven't gotten very far.
I really hope the best for you, d/r.
p.s. - self confidence is not the same as self-esteem.....social anxiety, I can imagine, can crush a person's self-esteem..
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on April 27, 2009, at 12:10:34
In reply to Re: my therapist is taking a new position, posted by Garnet71 on April 27, 2009, at 0:51:29
Garnet you say exactly what I wish I'd have said. I think you really hit the nail on the head!!!
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on April 27, 2009, at 12:21:05
In reply to my therapist is taking a new position, posted by desolationrower on April 25, 2009, at 1:52:15
hello again d/r
Reading what a post you wrote above about small talk and reading garnet's response...I have a question...have you tried group therapy? And especially, have you tried DBT? It was originally used for borderline personality but it so successful it is now used for anxiety, depression, etc.
Basically, it's CBT, but focusing on inner states not just inner thoughts, and using coping skills to deal with those. The big component of it is group--you learn these skills with a group, and part of the group process is using those skills in group, as part of the group process--whereas with CBT, its you and your therapist, and what your therapist tells you to go out and do, on your own. DBT is the whole package, though, because at the same time that you are doing group you also have your own DBT therapist, with whom you can focus on your individual issues.
One of the modules in DBT (there are four, and it is a year-long process--so each module is a few months) is about interpersonal relationships. A huge part of that is assertiveness, but its not some hokey thing. It's about actually learning the components of assertiveness and practicing using them. There is also a module on distress tolerance. For those of us with social anxiety (at one point I had it so badly it was social phobia), tolerating the anxiety is a huuuuuggggeeeeeee part of the problem. ERP is sometimes not helpful because it requires that you saturate yourself in the anxiety--that is the treatment--and you're right, it's d&mn scary. DBT asks you to learn to confront anxiety, but with tools, tools that help you self-soothe, distract, do a whole bunch of things to make it alright, to push through it.
Please google it. I really think DBT could help with what you're dealing with.
Posted by desolationrower on April 27, 2009, at 20:17:27
In reply to Re: my therapist is taking a new position » desolationrower, posted by garnet71 on April 25, 2009, at 13:28:12
i have no insurance (well some catastrophic thing that might cover something if i need 100k procedures) so thats not really the issue. and i don't have friends to go out with, finding them is the issue...
i don't think i'm worried about the therapeutic relationship not working for me. at least in an emotional 'worried' way. i looked at the psychologytoday site they have a lot of listing of people where they write a blurb of how they work and have a picture. there are lots of therapists around, finding a new one would not be hard, like finding na pdoc i like is.
I've never noticed anxiety getting better, so i'm not sure that shoudl be something on this therapist.
i think i'm more worried about my own judgments of thigns than of others.
i'm not sure waht it means to 'accept myself' or waht, its like ht eproblem is i don't expect social interactions to go well. part of it is me not enjoying it so its hard to think of the otehr person thinking differently.
i'ved not tried 'groups' because i think i'd really dislike it and the people involved; they're probably more socially awkward than normal, and get me even more dreading interactions. i went and met a guy who led an autism group and it was like he was congradulating me for knowing to shake his hand and basic things like that. and a group the first two weeks before i could get into the school clinic and it some girl tking about her lupus, and it was kind of like implied about me 'hm you seem ok why are you depressed?' and my cognitions are 'yeah you're right' because its only behvarioal/emotional stuff...
i did one dbt workbook, i mean i specifically said when is started working with this therapist didn't want any cbt, i already know about hwat cognititions should be, and techniques, and blah blah, i mean i'm quite introspective and had tried on my own psychological kind of stuff for years before i started getting professional help...
somehow, most of what i said was really about excuses for things or things iv'e told my therapist, not about picking one. but maybe knowing why i'm skeptical fo things is useful...thanks for the input i'm still confused.
-d/r
Posted by Ceres on May 2, 2009, at 17:15:09
In reply to Re: my therapist is taking a new position, posted by desolationrower on April 27, 2009, at 20:17:27
Hi, D/R.
-This is my first post on the Psychology board.
That's tough, having to make a decision to end or continue a therapeutic relationship.
If there's no increase in cost, is there any reason why you have to make a decision at the time the therapist moves her practice? Maybe the move itself might loosen things up a bit to give you a clearer picture.An option to ease into social situations, depending on your region, might be found through some Meet Up groups. I haven't browsed MeetUp for a longtime, but I do remember a Social Anxiety group in one of the large Metro areas. Plus, if you have time & organizational skills, you can start your own.
Most of these groups do not have a regular attendance requirement & a variety of folks attend. --Good luck w/ your situation.
http://www.meetup.com/topics/
Posted by desolationrower on May 4, 2009, at 0:25:52
In reply to Re: my therapist is taking a new position, posted by Ceres on May 2, 2009, at 17:15:09
> Hi, D/R.
> -This is my first post on the Psychology board.
> That's tough, having to make a decision to end or continue a therapeutic relationship.
> If there's no increase in cost, is there any reason why you have to make a decision at the time the therapist moves her practice? Maybe the move itself might loosen things up a bit to give you a clearer picture.
>
> An option to ease into social situations, depending on your region, might be found through some Meet Up groups. I haven't browsed MeetUp for a longtime, but I do remember a Social Anxiety group in one of the large Metro areas. Plus, if you have time & organizational skills, you can start your own.
> Most of these groups do not have a regular attendance requirement & a variety of folks attend. --Good luck w/ your situation.
> http://www.meetup.com/topics/
>
>hm, interesting. i might try to look at those, though i'd imagine i'd need some push to get to one.
->i think i might stay with my therapist a bit longer, as i don't have the $ right now to go often, so finding a new one might be a bit less practical. htanks for everyone's help.
-d/r
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.