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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 4, 2008, at 16:47:51
Hi All,
So I'm starting CBT next week because my pdoc has asked me very nicely to give it a try. I have serious misgivings about CBT. My university background is psychology, and from what I remember, CBT reminds me a little of dog training. There doesn't seem to be much empathy. And any causal factors are ignored and not really factored in. Am I making any wrong assumptions?
On the other hand CBT is the most researched form of therapy, and combined with meds, is the gold standard treatment for depression.
Can anyone help me? Should I not do the CBT and look for something else? What else is there these days? I know I don't want 10 years of psychoanalysis either, but I think there are issues from my past that have led to my current situation. Arghh.. Confused...
Phoenix1
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 17:06:31
In reply to CBT, posted by Phoenix1 on January 4, 2008, at 16:47:51
It's all in the practitioner, I'd guess. Reading about CBT can make it sound mechanical. A good therapist probably won't.
FWIW, many therapists are not entirely wed to one school of thought. Many CBT therapists will also explore your background, probably with an emphasis on how it's affecting your current behavior patterns and cognitions.
Posted by Maxime on January 4, 2008, at 17:50:47
In reply to CBT, posted by Phoenix1 on January 4, 2008, at 16:47:51
What are the symptoms you want to treat? Would DBT be more helpful? If not then CBT can be done without losing empathy. I have had it and it was really excellent. The psychologist I had showed her empathy when I had to do "homework" and I really didn't what thought I should replace with another (knew I was feeling anger but didn't know how to get out it by feeling something else. Changing my reaction).
Maxime
> Hi All,
>
> So I'm starting CBT next week because my pdoc has asked me very nicely to give it a try. I have serious misgivings about CBT. My university background is psychology, and from what I remember, CBT reminds me a little of dog training. There doesn't seem to be much empathy. And any causal factors are ignored and not really factored in. Am I making any wrong assumptions?
>
> On the other hand CBT is the most researched form of therapy, and combined with meds, is the gold standard treatment for depression.
>
> Can anyone help me? Should I not do the CBT and look for something else? What else is there these days? I know I don't want 10 years of psychoanalysis either, but I think there are issues from my past that have led to my current situation. Arghh.. Confused...
>
> Phoenix1
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 4, 2008, at 18:45:32
In reply to Re: CBT » Phoenix1, posted by Maxime on January 4, 2008, at 17:50:47
> What are the symptoms you want to treat? Would DBT be more helpful? If not then CBT can be done without losing empathy. I have had it and it was really excellent. The psychologist I had showed her empathy when I had to do "homework" and I really didn't what thought I should replace with another (knew I was feeling anger but didn't know how to get out it by feeling something else. Changing my reaction).
>
> Maxime
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > So I'm starting CBT next week because my pdoc has asked me very nicely to give it a try. I have serious misgivings about CBT. My university background is psychology, and from what I remember, CBT reminds me a little of dog training. There doesn't seem to be much empathy. And any causal factors are ignored and not really factored in. Am I making any wrong assumptions?
> >
> > On the other hand CBT is the most researched form of therapy, and combined with meds, is the gold standard treatment for depression.
> >
> > Can anyone help me? Should I not do the CBT and look for something else? What else is there these days? I know I don't want 10 years of psychoanalysis either, but I think there are issues from my past that have led to my current situation. Arghh.. Confused...
> >
> > Phoenix1
>
>Hi Maxime,
Thanks for the response. I'm not familiar with DBT, but will look it up. The guy I'm seeing does CBT and IPT. Not really sure what IPT is either. I guess I'll give it at least one or two sessions to see how it goes, and to see if I "click" with the therapist.
Phoenix1
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 4, 2008, at 18:47:22
In reply to Re: CBT » Phoenix1, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 17:06:31
> It's all in the practitioner, I'd guess. Reading about CBT can make it sound mechanical. A good therapist probably won't.
>
> FWIW, many therapists are not entirely wed to one school of thought. Many CBT therapists will also explore your background, probably with an emphasis on how it's affecting your current behavior patterns and cognitions.Thanks Dinah, you're right, I'm looking at this as if it's a black and white thing and forgetting the shades of grey. The T that I'm going to also does IPT that I know nothing about. I hope he's good, but I guess I'll know after a session or two. Thanks for responding.
Phoenix1
Posted by Phillipa on January 5, 2008, at 13:19:01
In reply to Re: CBT » Dinah, posted by Phoenix1 on January 4, 2008, at 18:47:22
Phoenix let us know what the Ipt is as never heard of this. I did go to group CBT years ago and it was good. Therapist now not so good. Replacing a thought with a what if and an outcome is that what everyone else has done? Mine now has no homework. Phillipa
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 6, 2008, at 14:56:56
In reply to Re: CBT » Maxime, posted by Phoenix1 on January 4, 2008, at 18:45:32
> > What are the symptoms you want to treat? Would DBT be more helpful? If not then CBT can be done without losing empathy. I have had it and it was really excellent. The psychologist I had showed her empathy when I had to do "homework" and I really didn't what thought I should replace with another (knew I was feeling anger but didn't know how to get out it by feeling something else. Changing my reaction).
> >
> > Maxime
> >
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > So I'm starting CBT next week because my pdoc has asked me very nicely to give it a try. I have serious misgivings about CBT. My university background is psychology, and from what I remember, CBT reminds me a little of dog training. There doesn't seem to be much empathy. And any causal factors are ignored and not really factored in. Am I making any wrong assumptions?
> > >
> > > On the other hand CBT is the most researched form of therapy, and combined with meds, is the gold standard treatment for depression.
> > >
> > > Can anyone help me? Should I not do the CBT and look for something else? What else is there these days? I know I don't want 10 years of psychoanalysis either, but I think there are issues from my past that have led to my current situation. Arghh.. Confused...Hi Maxime,
BTW, to answer your questions, i want to treat symptoms of anxiety, and depression. I feel hopeless about the future, that I have no control over my destiny/life/outcome. Specifically, I worry about things beyond my control. I worry about things within my control WAY to much. I worry about what people think of me, and about every personal interaction I have or will have. I have big feelings of guilt, and inadequacy in all aspects of my life. And I don't like myself very much, so I don't understand why other people would like me enough to call me a friend, etc. Does that sum it up?
Phoenix1
Posted by muffled on January 7, 2008, at 11:36:12
In reply to Re: CBT » Phoenix1, posted by Phoenix1 on January 6, 2008, at 14:56:56
Awww phoenix...sounds hard for you.
But very much able to be helped.
Sounds like CBT is perfect for you.
It helps you untangle all the wrong thinking we get in our head.
Its helped me when i remember to do it.
Takes some learning, but I getting there.
Good luck.
M
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 7, 2008, at 13:07:44
In reply to Re: CBT » Phoenix1, posted by muffled on January 7, 2008, at 11:36:12
> Awww phoenix...sounds hard for you.
> But very much able to be helped.
> Sounds like CBT is perfect for you.
> It helps you untangle all the wrong thinking we get in our head.
> Its helped me when i remember to do it.
> Takes some learning, but I getting there.
> Good luck.
> MThanks muffled,
I guess I just feel like I need some empathy or someone to recognize what I'm feeling and where it comes from, based on my history. A lot of stuff from childhood that I can't let go of. I'm worried CBT won't give this... I guess I'll find out on Friday.
CBT just seems so cold and emotionless. I know very well already what my irrational thoughts are and what I should replace them with. That's the easy part. The hard part is actually doing it...
Phoenix1
Posted by muffled on January 8, 2008, at 11:47:55
In reply to Re: CBT » muffled, posted by Phoenix1 on January 7, 2008, at 13:07:44
> I guess I just feel like I need some empathy or someone to recognize what I'm feeling and where it comes from, based on my history. A lot of stuff from childhood that I can't let go of. I'm worried CBT won't give this... I guess I'll find out on Friday.
>
> CBT just seems so cold and emotionless. I know very well already what my irrational thoughts are and what I should replace them with. That's the easy part. The hard part is actually doing it...
>
*Exactly! Its the doing it and practicing thats hard for me too!!! Actually writing it down and doing 'the work' on paper. Doing it in my head is NOT enuf.
My T is CBT trained, but she also takes into account my history(such as it is) in looking at my thots. CBT is not emotionless! Cuz the reason your trying to deal with negative thots is so you can stop all the negative FEELINGS from builing up!!LOL!! :-}
I dunno how this T will be? Some are good for some and not others...So training aside...its proly more important that you 'click' and feel comfortable with T.
So IMHO CBT is GREAT basic stuff. But it is just a 'part' of therapy only. There's all the 'human' stuff too.
Best wishes to you. I hope this T might be a good fit for you. T hunting is NOT much fun.So maybe, like me, you'll be lucky on the first try!
Good luck,
M
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on January 10, 2008, at 7:45:51
In reply to Re: CBT » Phoenix1, posted by muffled on January 8, 2008, at 11:47:55
I do CBT on my own time, and if things get stirred up then I take my works to my psychodynamic minded therapist.
He says that any good therapist (CBTherapists included) will show empathy and foster a client-therapist relationship.
I also like the idea that therapy is a thing of compassion. maybe the biggest thing that we have to learn is compassion for ourselves. One of the ways we can get there is by watching and observing and (ugh!) assimilating the compassion that a therapist shows to us, week in week out.
There are SO many ways of "clicking" with a T. I clicked with mine right off the bat because of his intellectual sophistication and because he was honest and really THERE for me. Now I'm starting to understand him as a caring compassionate soul, and finding out that he doesn't do his job out of material concerns but rather out of humanistic ones.
Some good places to start on CBT stuff include the book "thoughts and feelings" or the book recommended at the top of the page "the new mood therapy"
I think that it's helped me a lot with my generalized anxiety and with depressive thoughts.
best wishes, and let us know how things go
sorry if things are really hard right now. finding help is the HARDEST thing for most people. once you do that, you deserve massive credit.
-Ll
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 10, 2008, at 21:55:11
In reply to CBT, posted by Phoenix1 on January 4, 2008, at 16:47:51
First time in therapy, first therapist meeting, first experience with CBT. I'm nervous. Wish me luck!
Posted by Phillipa on January 10, 2008, at 22:45:29
In reply to First therapist meeting tomorrow, wish me luck!, posted by Phoenix1 on January 10, 2008, at 21:55:11
Best of luck to you my CBT therapist and I are getting closer does take a while to know the person. And simple homework this week for me now no laughing as I have a phone phobia. But I must call myself to arrange appointments. I can do this. Phillipa ps the book is great too have had it for years and two more babblers have sent me.
Posted by Dinah on January 11, 2008, at 1:29:01
In reply to First therapist meeting tomorrow, wish me luck!, posted by Phoenix1 on January 10, 2008, at 21:55:11
Posted by Kath on January 11, 2008, at 14:29:35
In reply to First therapist meeting tomorrow, wish me luck!, posted by Phoenix1 on January 10, 2008, at 21:55:11
I know you were nervous about it.
Good luck & hope it goes well.
:-) Kath
Posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2008, at 18:18:14
In reply to Re: First therapist meeting tomorrow, wish me luck! » Phoenix1, posted by Kath on January 11, 2008, at 14:29:35
So how did it go? Any homework? Or getting to know each other? Love Phillipa
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 12, 2008, at 11:00:03
In reply to First therapist meeting tomorrow, wish me luck!, posted by Phoenix1 on January 10, 2008, at 21:55:11
So my first appointment was...interesting. I was apprehensive, and had a lot of doubt about the whole process. My T seems good although I wouldn't say we immediately "clicked" He was insightful, but made some wrong guesses at what I was feeling. He says I'm not a candidate for CBT ideally because I know my irrational thought very well, and know what I should be replacing them with. In other words, I've already given myself a good course of CBT, and I didn't like it. He is not a purist and is happy to talk about my family history, other events, etc. He wants to focus on my relationships because he thinks those are what lead to symptoms of anxiety and depression. He will use what he calls IPT (inter-personal therapy), but his own modified version. I will go back to see him again next week. If I'm not getting a good feeling about him, I'm going to look elsewhere. So too early for a definitive review...
Thanks.
Phoenix1
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2008, at 11:13:41
In reply to Re: First therapist meeting tomorrow, wish me luck, posted by Phoenix1 on January 12, 2008, at 11:00:03
I tend to think it's a good idea to cut your losses early if it doesn't seem like a good fit. While it's true that some therapists can grow on you, even if they don't make an immediate good impression, it's also true that it's all too easy to get enmeshed in a less than ideal therapeutic relationship when a better fit would be much more helpful. Don't be afraid to "interview" a few therapists.
That being said, my immediate impression of my therapist was not particularly positive, and I mainly continued to see him because I had had a less than warm welcome when calling therapists out of the phone book. It turned out to be a very good match in the long run.
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