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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 19:09:48
I asked my T tonight what kind of therapy we're doing, and he said CBT. So I asked him how long it takes, and he said usually 12 sessions till you're feeling better, and then ...... I can't remember what he said because I thought I'll never be able to get anywhere in 12 sessions, so what's the point? I'm kind of depressed about it, although he did say it could take a year. I don't know how long it would take me to feel better/come to terms with my my issues. I don't think I have as much to get through as a lot of ppl, and it's good that ppl are with T's who won't quit on you, but now I'm just depressed, and thinking what's the point if he's just going to dump me off at some point down the road? How can I start when I'm afraid of starting and not being able to really finish? And then, if all of my thinking about past stuff is just irrational, and I just have to reframe it, well, I don't know if I can do that. I really couldn't get into much of anything at tonight's session because of it.Jazzy
Posted by alexandra_k on June 27, 2005, at 19:31:21
In reply to T is CBT, posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 19:09:48
I have done YEARS of CBT. YEARS of it. 'Typically' 12 sessions, yes. But most are happy to continue so long as you are making SOME improvement and still have more things you can be doing together. Really.
He may have been thinking he was offering you a hopeful prognosis. Really. Some people would be really pleased that their t thinks they will be feeling a lot better in 12 sessions. And lots of people do feel that their symptoms (the ones they agreed were most distressing to them) have been significantly reduced in 12 sessions.
If it is bothering you, though. If you are concerned that he will start to try and terminate you after 12 sessions then I really do think it would be worthwhile to have a chat to him about your concerns. It really can be useful to have a 'how have things been going and where to from here?' session at the end of 12 weeks - but not so useful to feel like you are going to be pushed out at that point.
He should know that lots of people have issues with trust - and feeling like one is going to be terminated after 12 sessions is hardly conducive to trusting someone. Personally... It takes me around 3 months to build trust. I need some time to see them at their best and worst. To see whether they do do what they say they will do. To see how they handle various disclosures. I don't think I'm all that unusual in that respect...
Posted by Dinah on June 27, 2005, at 20:04:49
In reply to Re: T is CBT » Jazzed, posted by alexandra_k on June 27, 2005, at 19:31:21
Actually, you sound quite trusting to me. :) Since it took me five years to trust mine, and start any kind of real work at all.
Posted by happyflower on June 27, 2005, at 20:08:56
In reply to T is CBT, posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 19:09:48
(((((Jazzy))))
My T is cognitive therapist, and I love it! I think what he was saying is that you should feel better, not totally healed, but better. Does he know all the issues you have?
My T doesn't think I will in therapy for long term, but he said you never know what could happen and that he will be my T as long as I need it, or until he retires.(which is 15 years away). I believe I felt much better after 3 months.What would if he said, Jazzy you are so screwed up, you will always be in therapy? I like that he is optimistic. When do you see him next? This is something to talk about.
You know I think you might come accross as a very strong person who will heal faster because you can talk easily to him already. Some people come in and don't talk or even look at their T. In this case, things will take much longer. I have had therapy for 6 months now, I have improved a lot, I have more to do, but I will take as long as it takes. I am sure your T will stay with you as long as it takes. He doesn't know you enough to really predict on how long, I am sure he was just generalising.
I hope you will feel better. Maybe you are just in a blue mood, has your hubby and you made up yet? (((((JAZZY))))) I will talk to ya later! :)
Posted by Dinah on June 27, 2005, at 20:11:09
In reply to T is CBT, posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 19:09:48
How have you defined your issues? Twelve sessions is enough for many people to learn anxiety coping skills or to get a different perspective on relationship problems. If the emphasis is on learning coping skills, it's likely to be shorter term.
So can you recall how you defined why you came to therapy? And can you remember how he framed his proposed treatment? Was it in terms of coping skills or correcting faulty thinking?
You never do know. My initial estimate was twelve to sixteen sessions - maybe as long as six months. Here I am ten years later. And just now getting to the issues behind the issues behind the issues.
Therapy clients are like ogres, and onions. And cakes. :) (My husband is much better than I am at imitating Shrek, and Donkey.)
Posted by alexandra_k on June 27, 2005, at 20:41:34
In reply to Re: T is CBT » Jazzed, posted by Dinah on June 27, 2005, at 20:11:09
> Therapy clients are like ogres, and onions. And cakes. :)
OOH. That reminds me of my absolute favourite saying:
A sensible man knows when to stop peeling his onions.
Not sure if that is terribly relevant...
But there it is.:-)
Posted by alexandra_k on June 27, 2005, at 20:44:51
In reply to Re: T is CBT » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on June 27, 2005, at 20:04:49
Ah. Thats one of the differences between public vs private.
That would not be tolerated...
Because there is pressure to clear wait lists. For every person who uses more than the 12 sessions there needs to be some sort of justification as to why they aren't getting to someone else off the wait list who might only require 12 sessions.
3 months isn't tolerated most of the time either.
And... Thats 3 months to come to trust someone who is (IMO) trustworthy. That doesn't take into account those who demonstrate that they cannot be trusted...
Posted by Dinah on June 27, 2005, at 21:19:34
In reply to Re: T is CBT » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on June 27, 2005, at 20:44:51
That's sad, about public funding.
After twelve sessions I had just barely begun to replace my somewhat dysfunctional methods of coping with really dysfunctional ones. :)
If therapy clients are like ogres, or onions, or cakes, then I fervently believe that therapy is like whack the mole. My OCD and panic weren't pleasant, but when they were tamed with breathing and lovely cognitive restructuring, all the hideous inner layers that they effectively hid became more obvious. Overall, if I didn't have time to uncover layer after layer of ogre, or cake, I'd have been better off uncovering none at all. Which would have meant that for me the optimum length of therapy for OCD and panic would be exactly zero sessions.
Posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 21:33:47
In reply to Re: T is CBT » Jazzed, posted by alexandra_k on June 27, 2005, at 19:31:21
Thanks Alex,
Yes, I think I will have to tell him how threatened that made me feel. No, I don't think he will terminate me after 12, but when I heard that, I didn't really hear what he said next, I just kind of shut down, it was something about "a year".
I can barely look at him, let alone discuss the really messy stuff yet. He's very nice, but he's trying to talk about surface stuff because I can't talk about the painful stuff yet.
This is not going to be easy, thank God for babble.
Jazzy
Posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 21:38:47
In reply to Re: T is CBT, posted by happyflower on June 27, 2005, at 20:08:56
> (((((Jazzy))))
> My T is cognitive therapist, and I love it! I think what he was saying is that you should feel better, not totally healed, but better. Does he know all the issues you have?OMGosh, thanks for the hugs happy. No we haven't really touched on much at all. He only knows surface stuff.
> My T doesn't think I will in therapy for long term, but he said you never know what could happen and that he will be my T as long as I need it, or until he retires.(which is 15 years away). I believe I felt much better after 3 months.
That sound reassuring happy. I don't know if this T would be that way or not. I don't think I need 15 years, but I'd like to think I have as long as it takes.
>
> What would if he said, Jazzy you are so screwed up, you will always be in therapy?That wouldn't make me feel very good! LOL
I like that he is optimistic. When do you see him next?
1 week.
>>This is something to talk about.
You are right, and it will be the first thing I talk to him about, because I want to get into the stuff I need to deal with.
> You know I think you might come accross as a very strong person who will heal faster because you can talk easily to him already.
Nope, he thinks I have self esteem issues, which I do, but that's not what I need to work on right now.
> I hope you will feel better. Maybe you are just in a blue mood, has your hubby and you made up yet? (((((JAZZY))))) I will talk to ya later! :)
Yeah, we made up, but haven't really talked yet, I need to go do that after I really look at this thread. It touched me so much that ppl respondedd to me. I feel like I could cry!
Jazzy
Posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 21:44:45
In reply to Re: T is CBT » Jazzed, posted by Dinah on June 27, 2005, at 20:11:09
> How have you defined your issues? Twelve sessions is enough for many people to learn anxiety coping skills or to get a different perspective on relationship problems. If the emphasis is on learning coping skills, it's likely to be shorter term.
> So can you recall how you defined why you came to therapy? And can you remember how he framed his proposed treatment? Was it in terms of coping skills or correcting faulty thinking?
Thanks for responding to me Dinah, I always look for your posts. You think better than I do. He knows I have anxiety issues, social issues, and self esteem issues. He seems to be emphasizing my faulty thinking. Is that okay, I don't know anything about all of this. I don't think it helps me much though because i know it's faulty, but it's too scary to fix it, esp. when I think there are deeper issues to deal with, but so far I'm too afraid to go there. I don't want to cry. I don't want to walk out of there feeling like an idiot.
>
> You never do know. My initial estimate was twelve to sixteen sessions - maybe as long as six months. Here I am ten years later. And just now getting to the issues behind the issues behind the issues.I will have to ask him if he's going to boot me if I'm not done. If he is, then I'll have to start again. If not, then i'll stick with it.
It takes me so long to get into the messy stuff
>
> Therapy clients are like ogres, and onions. And cakes. :) (My husband is much better than I am at imitating Shrek, and Donkey.)Hmmmm, wonder which one I am! You did make me smile when I just feel like crying.
Thanks,
Jazzy
Posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 21:47:35
In reply to Re: T is CBT » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on June 27, 2005, at 20:44:51
> Ah. Thats one of the differences between public vs private.
>
> That would not be tolerated...OMGosh, see this is what I fear for everyone! It has gotten so out of hand. you can't have someone help you with your problems because it takes too long, and someone else is waiting, and hurry up and get the heck out of there! That's just so cruel and insensitive. I'm so sorry if it is this way for you alex. I worry that it will be this way for all of our kids when they are older. I've already started telling them, take care of your issues as they occur, so you're not like me, trying to fix all of them now when there are so many and they feel overwhelming.
Jazzy
Posted by caraher on June 28, 2005, at 13:25:39
In reply to Re: T is CBT » alexandra_k, posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 21:47:35
Mine is also CBT-oriented and I've been seeing her for 3-4 years. I pay her myself so they only external pressures limiting our sessions is my personal financial situation.
The time he quoted you is just a typical "short-term psychotherapy" duration. Unless he has some external pressures to "process" as many clients as possible I doubt that's anything like a hard limit.
Posted by Jazzed on June 28, 2005, at 13:47:11
In reply to Re: T is CBT, posted by caraher on June 28, 2005, at 13:25:39
Thanks everybody for all of your thoughts. I will be sure to check with him next time.
Jazzy
This is the end of the thread.
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