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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 15:11:16
And of course not sending it..
Hi Doctor,
I am going to write this last email to you.. I am going to give you some feedbacks which you may not like. I have given you only positive feedback so far, and this is the first time I am going to give you not so positive one. But I feel I need to tell you this for two reasons - one, to give me some peace of mind, two - to help you become better so atleast future patients (if you ever return to practice) would be treated better.
For what it is worth, the way you terminated me was really very wrong. You just sent me an email one day and vanished. It put me through extreme mental torture and I have beating myself up for the past 5 months over it. I have been tortuing myself about what I did so wrong that you ended up having to terminate me the way you did.
I have been suffering so much almost everyday for the past 5 months.. And it is such a torture..and I keep going through the same thing again and again in my mind.. You don't know how much of a suffering this abrupt termination and cutting off contact put me through. It is really cruel and horrible.
I can understand your stance partly - you had retired from beign a psychiatrist, email communication was getting too much for both of us and possibly introducing lot of miscommunication, and I was being too clingy and needy, and you possibly couldn't have continued supporting me. And I had started going to someone here, and you were also very busy. I perfectly understand that we needed to terminate.
But still with all that, you could have given me atleast 3 - 4 months prior notice and let me knew before hand that this was coming up, and given me some form of contact after termination - maybe write a brief mail once in 3 months for a year. I don't know if that is asking for too much. Any long term patients develop intense bond with their therapist, and cutting it off abruptly is not the right way to terminate. I would never ever have done it to any of my clients, if I were a therapist. I wouldn't have done it to my worst patient. It is an absolutely horrible and cruel thing to do. I don't know why you did it. Maybe you thought time would heal me - but it never really does for me. At best it dulls the pain, but it never realy heals. I always find it extremely hard to move on after bad relationships.. it takes several years for me.
This kind of abrupt termination is extremely hard for anybody to take - I know I am projecting a lot on you, and I am possibly replaying abuses that happened in my mind or possibly somehow thinking of you as my father and that is probably why I find it so very hard to move on. But many other patients do it, and their therapists seem to be able to navigate them well and heal them. I have seen many many therapists who handle termination very very gracefully and make sure that the patient doesn't suffer. And they have done it to patients like me - women patients, who were extremely clingy and had huge transference. And I have really tried my best to understand where I went wrong, and what I am projecting on to you. You don't know how much of effort I have put into understanding myself in these past few months.
I know you really wanted to help me, and you really tried to do your part well.. And I am glad I came to you. I know therapy in India is not anything like we did..I have read articles by many psychiatrists, and I don't like any of them - not even a single one.. I must have read atleast 30 - 40 articles in various magazines.. You are one of the most sensible persons I feel and you went beyond the Indian model of short term goal oriented therapy focussed only on actions and you tried to help me through my transference. I am grateful for all that.
But I think you really need to develop more emotional understanding and depth. You are very good in logical quickness and smart, but you lack a lot in understanding emotions.. You really need to learn more about it if you are ever thinking of returning back to therapy and being in psychiatry. Plus read about transference.. Especially if you are going to treat women clients long time, it is a must. You cannot treat without learning more about transference and how powerful it is and what kind of mental torture the patients go through. Otherwise, you will end up doing more harm in the name of helping. In fact, a huge part of treating long term patients is the focus on the relationship with the therapist. I don't know if you know all these, or even were taught about all these in your school. And maybe in your previous place you didn't have access to internet that much and good bookstores. But now you are in a bigger city, use this chance to learn about it. You should read some of the client discussion boards. They are really really helpful and they have a wealth of information especially about transference. If you are ever going to become a psychiatrist again and treat women patients, all of them are going to develop huge transference towards you. They are going to possibly think they are in love with you etc etc.. And I with so much of knowledge and access to internet, found it extremely hard to break away from that and understand where I am projecting on to you.. For lesser informed patients, it is going to be even more impossible. They are going to completely break down.
The therapy that gets done in India is not enough for healing. At best it is of logical help, and helps you control your actions and to certain extent your thinking. But for people like me who are already quite logically capable, but struggle with emotions, and find it difficult to be happy, that model is insufficient. IT works well for short term control. But if a person really wants to evolve into an emotionally healed and happy person, it is really insufficient. Intensive regressive therapy is what helps.
Even after all this, if you still prefer not to write to me even once, I also shall not write again. I still really think very highly of you, and I have very high regards for you and that will not change ever and I am grateful to you for the help you did for me. I think you had very little experience in treating patients like me and understanding transference, and I think in spite of your best interests, you went wrong. That is why I am even bothering to write this email because I know you are genuinely interested and cared to do a good job - atleast when I knew you in the beginning. You possibly have lost interest subsequently, and maybe you don't really bother or care anymore about therapy or all these things. But even then, you can just realize what it did to me, and maybe just acknowledge it to yourself.
Posted by happyflower on June 24, 2005, at 15:41:44
In reply to One more email to my ex T, posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 15:11:16
I like the way you write, pinkeye. It shows me how mature you really are. I think you would make a good T someday! Maybe you can transform India into a new world!
I respect your wishes for not wanting to send it, but I feel it might lessen your pain, if you deal with this and let him know what he did to you. I think you should stand up for yourself. But I understand how you feel and you should listen to your T about this. But if it was me, I would send it to him. :) But you are nicer than me, because if my T does that to me, I am going to let him have it! lol :)I am glad he is no longer a T. I want to beat him with a stick, and I don't hit anyone.
Posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 15:55:21
In reply to Re: One more email to my ex T, posted by happyflower on June 24, 2005, at 15:41:44
Maybe you are right.. perhaps I should send it.. But then if he doesn't really acknowledge.. it would be immensely hard for me. He will really go down in my eyes, and I don't want to do that.
Posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 16:49:18
In reply to Re: One more email to my ex T » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 15:55:21
More than anything else, just to give me some peace of mind. I sent it.
Posted by Tamar on June 24, 2005, at 17:19:15
In reply to I sent it !! » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 16:49:18
> More than anything else, just to give me some peace of mind. I sent it.
I liked your email. It sounded very balanced. You told him about how he'd helped you in many ways, and you also expressed your pain and disappointment with his method of terminating you.
I think perhaps sending it was the right thing to do, although it may hurt if he doesn't respond. But at least you know that he knows how you feel. So even if he doesn't reply, he knows, and he won't forget what you've said.
Posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 17:33:45
In reply to Re: I sent it !! » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on June 24, 2005, at 17:19:15
Thanks Tamar.
Not sending it was also not helping.. I was just going through it again and again and I was really not getting anywhere. That is why I sent it. I should probably not have sent anything like that, since it is probably going to worsen it when I don't get a response, but I was not going anywhere with it anyway, and I was just going in circles anyway.
Posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 19:20:15
In reply to Re: I sent it !! » Tamar, posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 17:33:45
I am feeling much more relieved after I sent that email to my ex T.
Maybe I will feel bad later when I realize he is not going to reply, but for now, I am feeling very relieved.
Posted by happyflower on June 24, 2005, at 21:36:15
In reply to Feeling better after I sent it, posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 19:20:15
> I am feeling much more relieved after I sent that email to my ex T.
>I knew it would take a load off! Good for you for standing up for yourself! I am so proud of you!
> Maybe I will feel bad later when I realize he is not going to reply, but for now, I am feeling very relieved.
Please don't set yourself up for this, pinkeye, he probably won't reply, I will be really surprised if he does. But please don't let that bring you down, you didn't do it for a response, did you? I sure hope you did it for you. What could he say to make it better for you? He still hurt you, will an apology make it any better. He might be afraid to open the can of worms, if he responds to you. But I am sure he got the message loud and clear! You took a stand for yourself today, nobody will do that to you again! Good for you! I just hope you can get some relief from it all. :) You deserve a "GOOD JOB" sticker! :)
Posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 21:44:53
In reply to Re: Feeling better after I sent it, posted by happyflower on June 24, 2005, at 21:36:15
thanks..
I wish I can learn how to take things lightly in life.. and let it go at that.
Posted by happyflower on June 24, 2005, at 21:58:16
In reply to Re: Feeling better after I sent it » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 21:44:53
> thanks..
>
> I wish I can learn how to take things lightly in life.. and let it go at that.I think you will feel a little lighter after doing this ! What you did, thinking about what to write, actually writing it, and sending it to him. You gave him much more respect than he did to you. I think you are amazing. I think this might be what you did to bring some closure to this. You deserve that for yourself! I think you did all you can do, but some people in our life will never appreciate us for what we do, no matter how good we are.
I had to move on from what my mother did to me ( I know it is different, but in a way it is the same). She could of done better, but no sorry is enough for me to allow her into my life. She ruined my childhood, and I won't allow her to ruin my adult life. I guess I don't know how I did this. I just did it one day, and said enough is enough, I am not going to allow her wrongs to hold me prison for the rest of my life. Do you have some of the old email from your T? Maybe you could burn them, and mourn him for one last time. I don't know what I am saying, so ignore it, if I am off track, or off my rocker! Stay safe tonight!
Posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 22:27:56
In reply to Re: Feeling better after I sent it, posted by happyflower on June 24, 2005, at 21:58:16
Thanks so much Happy.
What you have said makes sense. Though, I don't think I am capable of burning it and moving on from my ex T. I really don't want to .. I want to be able to hold him in good thoughts for ever. Otherwise, it will kill me. That is why I guess I find it so hard I think.. I don't really like holding grudge against people who meant something to me.. I have never been able to do that in the past as well. I think it would have been easier if I had the ability to do it, but really that kind of trying to move on only ends up making it worse for me.
Posted by happyflower on June 24, 2005, at 22:55:40
In reply to Re: Feeling better after I sent it » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 22:27:56
> > What you have said makes sense. Though, I don't think I am capable of burning it and moving on from my ex T. I really don't want to .. I want to be able to hold him in good thoughts for ever.
Pinkeye, is he in good thoughts now? Do you think moving on means that you don't think good thoughts about him? Do you think you can more forward, forgive him, and have good thoughts about him that will stay with you?
One quesion I would like to ask you, I hope you don't take it wrong or get mad at me. Do you think that maybe holding on so tight to your ex T and being upset and not letting him go is a way to avoid dealing with your other problems?
Do you think moving on is holding a grudge against your T? I don't hold a grudge about my mother, I am doing it to keep my me and my family safe. Isn't a grudge holding anger against someone? I have no anger, I feel nothing, I am indifferent, I have moved on. Even my T sees this, he said I made a huge shift a couple of months ago and am looking at my present problems that maybe was taken a back seat to the past problems. I feel like I have healed this part in me.
I know your T meant a lot to you and it hurts very bad. How did you handle past relationships in your earlier life? Has a boyfriend ever broke up with you or something simular. How did you get through that? Maybe it might help to do the same thing. Maybe I have no idea what I am talking about. I just want to help unstuck you and this hold your T has over you. What can I do to help? I think you have made wonderful progress today, I want to help you, what can I do?
Posted by pinkeye on June 25, 2005, at 12:59:19
In reply to Re: Feeling better after I sent it » pinkeye, posted by happyflower on June 24, 2005, at 22:55:40
Thanks HF. I have to think about what you have said.
I have never really been good in moving on.. not from any relationships.
Posted by LadyBug on June 25, 2005, at 14:40:30
In reply to Feeling better after I sent it, posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 19:20:15
I'm glad you sent it!! He probably won't reply but at least you know he knows how you feel. If you hope for a reply, you might be setting yourself up for a dissapointment. So if you tell youself he won't reply then you can try to find some relief knowing that you told him how you have felt. I hope is did give you some sort of relief.
LadyBug
Posted by pinkeye on June 25, 2005, at 16:13:06
In reply to Re: Feeling better after I sent it » pinkeye, posted by happyflower on June 24, 2005, at 22:55:40
> Pinkeye, is he in good thoughts now? Do you think moving on means that you don't think good thoughts about him? Do you think you can more forward, forgive him, and have good thoughts about him that will stay with you?
---- Yes, he is still very much in good thoughts. I feel very bad many times, but still somehow I have good regards for him. The thing is, I really don't know how to move on. I have never been good at it.For me, moving on means, you don't like the person anymore, and you don't think about that, and somehow you don't feel anything for them. I don't want to do that.. I want to be able to move on in a good way - kind of still be able to remember all that he taught me. Right now, I am in such a mood where moving on, means getting angry at him, and deciding he is a jerk and not worth spending time - I don't like this. I want to feel good and move on.
Does it make sense? I have always felt it is much easier for me to move on from good relationships and good endings rather than bad relationships.
>
> One quesion I would like to ask you, I hope you don't take it wrong or get mad at me. Do you think that maybe holding on so tight to your ex T and being upset and not letting him go is a way to avoid dealing with your other problems?--- No I don't think I am doing that.. I have been honestly working on all the other issues that I have.
> Do you think moving on is holding a grudge against your T? I don't hold a grudge about my mother, I am doing it to keep my me and my family safe. Isn't a grudge holding anger against someone? I have no anger, I feel nothing, I am indifferent, I have moved on. Even my T sees this, he said I made a huge shift a couple of months ago and am looking at my present problems that maybe was taken a back seat to the past problems. I feel like I have healed this part in me.
----- Maybe because you have a higher self confidence and self respect than I have. Maybe you are able to say that you need better and move on. I am not able to.
> I know your T meant a lot to you and it hurts very bad. How did you handle past relationships in your earlier life? Has a boyfriend ever broke up with you or something simular. How did you get through that? Maybe it might help to do the same thing. Maybe I have no idea what I am talking about. I just want to help unstuck you and this hold your T has over you. What can I do to help? I think you have made wonderful progress today, I want to help you, what can I do?
----I have never been good in moving on in this regard.. I have always found I tortured myself for years before I decided to move on. I haven't really had a boyfriend as such - mostly it was one sided crushes.. People have had one sided crushes towards me also, but it had never really been both ways at the same time.
Posted by pinkeye on June 25, 2005, at 16:14:18
In reply to Re: Feeling better after I sent it, posted by LadyBug on June 25, 2005, at 14:40:30
thanks ladybug. I don't know if I am hoping for a reply or not.. atleast some acknowledgement would be good.. but you are right - if I expect it I will be disappointed.
Posted by Jen Star on June 25, 2005, at 19:58:25
In reply to I sent it !! » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on June 24, 2005, at 16:49:18
Yah! Good for you! I'm sooo glad you sent it. He needs to know what you are feelng, and that his methods did NOT keep you feeling stronger and better and healthier, that in fact he contributed to your negative feelings. Even if he's too arrogant to change, at least he knows that he f****ed up with a patient and he won't forget it. Hopefully he'll take it to heart and really examine what he did with you and others. I'm so glad you had the courage to send it! I admire you for it. :)
JenStar
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