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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JenStar on May 15, 2005, at 19:27:07
I've been searching around for a new T (want to start therapy again), and it seems that some offices I call have a real attitude - kind of snooty, sort of. Of course that could be ME just projecting my own insecurities outward, but it seems that some doctors/therapists just don't seem that friendly or welcoming to potential new clients.
Do you all think that some T's are arrogant about their job? Do they think they are better or smarter than the rest of us? Do they feel sort of "god-like" in their ability to help? I want a T who is smart, but who recognizes that they are just a regular old person at the same time.
What are the best ways to see if I am suited to a particular t? Would I have to have one visit first and check it out? Is one visit enough?
thanks for any advice!
JenStar
Posted by pinkeye on May 15, 2005, at 19:39:29
In reply to do T's think they are better/smarter than others?, posted by JenStar on May 15, 2005, at 19:27:07
I would prefer a referral instead of going by myself trying to find out first. It is awfully hard to go through the entire list of Ts that the insurance provides.
I got about 4 referrals from varios sources - my GP, my arthritis doctor, from my company sources.
I called them on the phone.. and didn't like the way the rest three spoke. So went to the one that I liked. The rest three were pretending too much, and trying to pretend to be extremely caring and affectionate, and I didn't like it. My T was more matter of fact - she said, that after seeing her once, if she thinks she cannot help me, she would refer to me someone whom she would think would be a better match for me. I liked that honest approach a lot. That is why I went to her. And I am quite satisfied with her.
You seem to be very concerned about your own intelligence and T's intelligence. Maybe you have issues around that (Ok - Just kidding :-))
I am sure if you call up and talk, you might be able to filter out many of them. And within a first visit, you might be able to filter most of them.
So what if a T thinks he/she is better/smarted? I think a smart T will also recognize if you are smart and would adjust herself/himself once she/he sees you right? It is always better to go to a smart T even if he/she is a little bit arrogant in the beginning. I am sure any smart person is equally capable of recognizing the other person's smartness and adjusting her/his style and attitude. What you don't want is a dumb but arrogant T.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 15, 2005, at 20:24:42
In reply to do T's think they are better/smarter than others?, posted by JenStar on May 15, 2005, at 19:27:07
I think some t's do.
But that isn't just a problem with t's
It is a problem with people in general.I have trouble seeing someone who thinks they have all the answers.
Nobody has all the answers so if they think they do then that isn't a good sign.
Yeah.
Meet them and see how it goes.
If it goes well and you think you might like to work with them based on what you have seen of them so far then see if you can trial working together for maybe 4 or 6 sessions.
Make a proper decision after that.It can be good to make it a 'deciding whether we are suited to working with one another' decision. That way it is a decision both of you can make.
Posted by Dinah on May 15, 2005, at 21:20:58
In reply to do T's think they are better/smarter than others?, posted by JenStar on May 15, 2005, at 19:27:07
I had an awful time finding a therapist. I ended up with mine mainly because he sounded genuinely interested in seeing me. Most of them, on finding out I cold called them without a referral, had their secretaries pass on rates or started the phone call with such offputting comments that I got scared and hung up. My problem didn't sound all that serious when they had me state it baldly on the phone.
I met my therapist at a seminar he was giving, and even though I was disruptive, when I went to him at break and told him I was looking for a therapist he was just the right amount of warm and interested and gave me his card.
I think you have a lot better luck if you have a referral from someone - anyone. My referral to my current pdoc was from one of his clients to my mother to me.
Posted by Dinah on May 15, 2005, at 21:26:45
In reply to do T's think they are better/smarter than others?, posted by JenStar on May 15, 2005, at 19:27:07
To be fair though, a lot of professionals are wary of cold calls without a referral. I know at my office they often elicit groans and round robins rather than excited rushes to the phone.
There are just too many bad experiences on the professional's side.
If I ever do it again, I think I'll try to remember that, and account for it in the phone calls.
Posted by Shortelise on May 15, 2005, at 23:29:47
In reply to do T's think they are better/smarter than others?, posted by JenStar on May 15, 2005, at 19:27:07
That hasn't been my experience, though I do remember one pyschiatrist at a party last year who was such an arrogant dunderhead!
But neurologists! Lord, what a weird bunch they are, You have to be REALLY smart to be a neurologist and they are all nuts as well, with the social skills of invertabrates.
Here's what I think: a T who thinks he is better because he is smarter is going to be a lousy T. We need to feel respected for who we are, even if we couldn't calculate a 10% tip in a restaurant. Who needs an arrogant shrink?
BUT BUT BUT, all of that aside, I have been in such fragile places in my life that I though everyone I met was an arrogant pickle. And for sure, absolutely, I was so defensive that I would think anyone meeting me would put on their heaviest, thickest armor ASAP.
COnclusion: yup, there are some cuke heads out there, but when we act like cuke heads out fo fear (and it is out of fear for me) then it seems others can react to that and also act like cuke heads.
However, my T didn't. He was nice to me. He knew I was being so proud because I was filled with self-loathing and fear. He didn't say as much, and it took me a while to figure it out. But on the first visit, I knew he was ok, that I liked him, and I was right that he was a good T for me.
Hope these meanderings help.
ShortE
Posted by Poet on May 16, 2005, at 0:03:25
In reply to do T's think they are better/smarter than others?, posted by JenStar on May 15, 2005, at 19:27:07
Hi JenStar,
My T definitely isn't arrogant about her job, last week I called her twice to remind her we had to reschedule. She called me back and said *I am such a ditz* I thought I called you all ready. I like a therapist who admits she spaces out once and awhile.
I also like that when I made that first appointment, she answers her own phone. No talking to an assistant. My pdoc answers his own phone, too. It made that first appointment easier, too.
One visit was enough for me for my T, but a friend has now seen three Ts and decided to go back to number two. So it might take some time to find the right one, or you could be like me and just hit it right the first time.
Good luck on your search.
Poet
Posted by pearl on May 16, 2005, at 0:05:13
In reply to better/smarter than others? » JenStar, posted by Shortelise on May 15, 2005, at 23:29:47
Its funny, the few times I have been to a T, I always found myself feeling superior to them. Maybe because it was a forced situation, and I was resentful. But I'm surprised at the amount of people intimidated by their Therapists.
Doesn't anybody else feel like their efforts are useless sometimes, and their techniques are almost insulting? I guess I just had an ineffective experience. Huh.
Posted by JenStar on May 16, 2005, at 0:27:15
In reply to Re: do T's think they are better/smarter than others? » JenStar, posted by pinkeye on May 15, 2005, at 19:39:29
thanks for the advice! You know, I think I do have issues around intelligence. When I was little, I was always the "smart" one and my sister was always the "pretty" one. We were labeled that way early on and it stuck for a long time. Of course, she is smart too. And I can be pretty at times, if you catch me in the right smile with the right glow on my face. But I'm not beautiful the way she is. So I always felt I had to compensate for my lack of looks by being extra-smart and doing well in school. It was kind of my "thing", I guess. I still have hang-ups about it and think I'm horribly ugly. Luckily my hubby somehow finds me attractive, and I know I'm not awful looking. Just -- it's hard to always be comparing myself internally to prettier people and finding myself lacking. I guess b/c I don't have looks, I feel like I need to be "smart" to be anything. Fun, right???
JenStar
Posted by Dinah on May 16, 2005, at 8:28:34
In reply to better/smarter than others? » JenStar, posted by Shortelise on May 15, 2005, at 23:29:47
Two of the nicest doctors I ever met were neurologoists with great social skills. My father's neurologist deftly handled my father AND my mother, while kindly letting me know that there was not much they could do and to let my father be as happy as possible. No easy task. :) He was even more laid back than my therapist.
My migraine doctor is the sweetest person! Even apart from her easing my headache pain, just having her enter the room is soothing. Although she's got a waiting line a mile long, she never appears rushed with each patient. And she's the one who thought it was great that I was seeing a therapist twice a week, because too many of her migraine clients don't get the care they need.
If she were a therapist, she just might tempt me away from mine. :)
Posted by Shortelise on May 16, 2005, at 12:09:01
In reply to Re: better/smarter than others? » Shortelise, posted by Dinah on May 16, 2005, at 8:28:34
Don't you let that neuro get ;;lpppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp asdddddddddddddddddddddd (sorry, that's an aside from our new kitten)
Don't let that neuro get away! Good pain management and kindness? Heck, I'd marry her! (Yes, I am a woman)iiii88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888kooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444 (oops)
Maybe it's the patient skills the neuros I have seen have lacked. They were, to the man, weird. Seriously weird.
I'm glad your Dad had good care. It sounds like your family has good doc karma :-)
ShortE
Posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 14:00:00
In reply to Re: do T's think they are better/smarter than others? » pinkeye, posted by JenStar on May 16, 2005, at 0:27:15
I can understand. I was like that too.. I was horribly fat when I was young, but was very smart and did well in studies. So everyone branded me as "brainy", "geeky" etc. And nobody ever said I was beautiful or anything (for some time in my life.. though I ended up losing almost all of my extra fat and now I like decent).
So I also always had issues around my intelligence.. I thought for a long time, to be intelligent means to be not beautiful and not feminine. Plus I also thought men won't like me if I am intelligent. I even went to great lengths to hide my intelligence. When I came to college, I would purposefully not study and do poorly in subject, because I thought guys like only girls who are dumb. I kind of associated intelligence with "not being pretty or feminine".. And I ended up having lot of issues around being intelligent. It took me a long long time to understood those two are completely different. How you look, how men perceive you, how you operate has nothing to do with your intelligence or your capacity. People who are extremely intelligent and capable can be very feminine and pretty and giving and an elegant woman, and people who are dumb could be arrogant, bossy, and rude and could be just plain irritating.
None of it has anything to do with your intelligence.
And besides, beauty is a relative term. If you consider my state from where I came from, in my country, I was one of the better looking - just because I was a little more fair than most people. The same thing if I moved to other parts of my country, where people are more fair, then I am considered average. In the US, where people are extremely fair and white and thin and slender, I think I would be considered as below average. IT all depends on where you are. I am sure if you go to India, you will be treated as the prettiest of all. If you have to compare, compare yourself with someone who looks worse than you, and not with someone who looks better than you.
Posted by Tamar on May 16, 2005, at 14:26:12
In reply to Re: do T's think they are better/smarter than others? » JenStar, posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 14:00:00
> If you have to compare, compare yourself with someone who looks worse than you, and not with someone who looks better than you.Pinkeye, this really made me smile. I've been having a fat-and-ugly day today. I'm convinced I'm terminally unattractive. But I'm just comparing myself with the wrong people! I should write down your words and stick them to my fridge.
Thanks for cheering me up.
Tamar
Posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 14:32:31
In reply to Re: do T's think they are better/smarter than others? » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on May 16, 2005, at 14:26:12
Yeah. I never understand why people like you guys who are born in one of the most attractive races in the whole planet, would even think of yourself as unattractive.
God gave you such natural gifts in looks - you guys are really fair, most of you decently tall, and people in India would die to get one of your bodies. (I am not against Indians look - but just that these attributes are highly longed for in India).
It is very surprising to me to think you guys think of yourself as ugly.
Posted by JenStar on May 16, 2005, at 15:21:53
In reply to Re: do T's think they are better/smarter than others? » JenStar, posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 14:00:00
I too liked your advice about comparing to the wrong people! It made me smile.
What's interesting to me is that I think people with darker skin are extremely attractive. I think some of my Indian friends in college were some of the most beautiful people I knew. I felt kind of pasty and bland compared to them. Now I have a lot of Hispanic friends and I love the skin tones - warm coffee, gentle sun. If I could have a "do over" I would make myself darker! And don't forget that the current "most beautiful woman in the world" is from India - Aishwarya Rai (sp?) has been on all the news stations in the past few months.
I guess it really is in the eye of the beholder. The cool thing about babble is that we can see each other's beauty through words and don't even need to see a face. :)
JenStar
Posted by Tamar on May 17, 2005, at 4:01:17
In reply to Re: do T's think they are better/smarter than others? » Tamar, posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 14:32:31
> Yeah. I never understand why people like you guys who are born in one of the most attractive races in the whole planet, would even think of yourself as unattractive.
That’s interesting. I never think of whole races as attractive or unattractive. Individual people of any race might be attractive, but there’s nothing about a set of racial characteristics that I find particularly attractive or unattractive. I’ve had lovers of other races, but I was attracted to them on an individual basis rather than for their skin colour or whatever. And then their race became part of the set of things I found attractive, but it wasn’t the actual reason, if that makes sense.
> God gave you such natural gifts in looks - you guys are really fair, most of you decently tall, and people in India would die to get one of your bodies. (I am not against Indians look - but just that these attributes are highly longed for in India).
Ha! I don’t think anyone would want my body: it may be tall and fair but it’s quite unhealthy!
> It is very surprising to me to think you guys think of yourself as ugly.
I think most people have ugly days. I have a friend who is heart-stoppingly beautiful and even she has fat-and-ugly days. I guess it’s all in the mind really.
Posted by thistlethorn on May 17, 2005, at 19:55:37
In reply to Re: do T's think they are better/smarter than others? » Tamar, posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 14:32:31
This may not apply to you, JenStar, but I've often found that doctors/therapists seem to lose their enthusiasm for taking me on as a new patient (and can consequently come across as snooty) once they learn that I belong to an HMO. It's unfortunate, but I can understand their reluctance (and sometimes refusal) to deal with my very bureaucratic health insurance provider.
PinkEye, where I live (in New York) is a large South Asian community. I always wondered why the sari merchants in my neighborhood put blonde wigs on the mannequins in their shop windows. Your comment that fairness is "highly longed for" by the people of India explains this practice to me and, also, the sadness I feel every time I pass one of those windows.tt
Posted by antigua on May 18, 2005, at 10:45:45
In reply to Re: do T's think they are better/smarter than others? » pinkeye, posted by JenStar on May 16, 2005, at 0:27:15
lol, my sister was the prettier AND smarter one; not much room for me. I've survived.
antigua
Posted by Jazzed on May 18, 2005, at 12:17:46
In reply to better/smarter than others? » JenStar, posted by Shortelise on May 15, 2005, at 23:29:47
>
> BUT BUT BUT, all of that aside, I have been in such fragile places in my life that I though everyone I met was an arrogant pickle. And for sure, absolutely, I was so defensive that I would think anyone meeting me would put on their heaviest, thickest armor ASAP.
>I'm not sure if I'm feeling fragile, or what it is right now, but I feel threatened I guess by going to a psychiatrist again. At first I thought, no problem, this guy is alright, but not intimidating, and he's not, BUT he is SO doggone "normal"! He's calm, and reassuring, and nice, and doesn't EVER miss anything. You can see the wheels turning when you're with him. He catches the way you move, the way you breathe, what you say, and how you say it, and that to me is scary. I almost want to stop going because I feel threatened that he'll find out I've got more problems than he originally thought. He just did my diagnosis, and now does meds, so I don't see him for therapy, but I still find it threatening.
I guess therapists have to put up a good front even when they're feeling less than perfect to garner our trust as an able therapist.
Jazzed
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