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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 34. Go back in thread:
Posted by deirdrehbrt on October 7, 2003, at 19:05:50
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All, posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 12:53:09
FallsFall,
I don't know which is more true, but I think that both of these are:
You are so incredibly hard on yourself that you have little chance of success in your eyes while others are simply amazed.
Your need for connection, especially with people who are there to help you, leads to a need for reassurance for which you are desperate.
Most likely, your therapist has seen nothing for which he will want to drop you as a patient. Maybe you are worried about what you did, and maybe what is going on is the fear of the last time this happened.
I have seen quite a few different therapists. I have even had a therapist that had me sign a treatment contract. I have never seen or heard a therapist say that it was impropper for me to find a phone number in a book, to look for information that they may have published, or placed in a public forum.
I think that if they did state rules that forbade that, then I would be obligated to do so, but if they didn't, then they there is no harm in looking.
Please take care of yourself sweety. Please stop looking for reasons to beat yourself up.
Dee.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on October 7, 2003, at 19:06:41
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All, posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 12:53:09
FallsFall,
I don't know which is more true, but I think that both of these are:
You are so incredibly hard on yourself that you have little chance of success in your eyes while others are simply amazed.
Your need for connection, especially with people who are there to help you, leads to a need for reassurance for which you are desperate.
Most likely, your therapist has seen nothing for which he will want to drop you as a patient. Maybe you are worried about what you did, and maybe what is going on is the fear of the last time this happened.
I have seen quite a few different therapists. I have even had a therapist that had me sign a treatment contract. I have never seen or heard a therapist say that it was impropper for me to find a phone number in a book, to look for information that they may have published, or placed in a public forum.
I think that if they did state rules that forbade that, then I would be obligated to do so, but if they didn't, then they there is no harm in looking.
Please take care of yourself sweety. Please stop looking for reasons to beat yourself up.
Dee.
Posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 20:56:40
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him, posted by kara lynne on October 7, 2003, at 18:57:26
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20030407/msgs/221129.html
After that I spent months feeling that she was mad at me and frantically trying to do the right thing. I was suicidal and the only thing that made me feel better was thinking about switching therapists. She thought it was a good idea. I did interviews and gave her a summary of what people said (like they thought I should work it out with her). She asked what I told them was the reason I was leaving. I told her because she was mad at me and I couldn't do it anymore. She said "gee, I thought you were leaving because I had taught you all I know". Then she said that she wasn't aware that I was miserable for the past 4 months. That was the end. I never went back. So, did she kick me out for searching? Not really, but from my perspective I had to leave because of a problem that began with my searching.
I just wanted comfort. To feel connected. I didn't want to invade her privacy. I was lonely.
I still just want comfort.
My therapist called back. He said that we'd have to talk about why I keep doing things that make me unhappy on Thursday. Somehow, that isn't comfort. He did say that he wasn't going to repeat history (I haven't said I'm searching, but he knows - so he is saying that he won't be mad. I should interpret that to mean that he won't abandon me, but there is more to the abandonment fear than the searching. Everything I do seems wrong - and therefore everything I do seems like it would be cause for him to abandon me.)
I feel like everytime I have a problem and ask him for help he says that I should go fix the problem myself. I'm not seeing the help. If I could fix everything myself, I wouldn't have to see him.
Feeling very hopeless and alone. And I have no idea what to say on Thursday. No idea.
Thanks, Kara.
Posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 21:01:42
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All » fallsfall, posted by deirdrehbrt on October 7, 2003, at 19:05:50
> FallsFall,
> I don't know which is more true, but I think that both of these are:
> You are so incredibly hard on yourself that you have little chance of success in your eyes while others are simply amazed.Possible. But if I'm so wonderful, why is it that I can't get better?
> Your need for connection, especially with people who are there to help you, leads to a need for reassurance for which you are desperate.
Yes.
> Most likely, your therapist has seen nothing for which he will want to drop you as a patient. Maybe you are worried about what you did, and maybe what is going on is the fear of the last time this happened.
This is not the only time I have feared abandonment, and I worry about more than just the searching. Everything that I do seems bad, so everything could be cause for him to abandon me.
> I have seen quite a few different therapists. I have even had a therapist that had me sign a treatment contract. I have never seen or heard a therapist say that it was impropper for me to find a phone number in a book, to look for information that they may have published, or placed in a public forum.
> I think that if they did state rules that forbade that, then I would be obligated to do so, but if they didn't, then they there is no harm in looking.
> Please take care of yourself sweety. Please stop looking for reasons to beat yourself up.But they are so easy to find.
> Dee.
You are sweet, Dee. Thank you.
Posted by HannahW on October 7, 2003, at 22:16:40
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All » deirdrehbrt, posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 21:01:42
I'm glad for the opportunity to reach out to you, for a change. But I wish you weren't feeling so badly.
I think you're right that in the grand scheme of this mysterious thing we call therapy and healing, the searching is trivial. (Except in my case, where it's unforgiveable. I'm amazed that people have the courage to admit it to their therapists. I doubt I EVER will! Maybe I wouldn't feel so guilty if I didn't find so much stuff!) :)
You truly amaze me, and I'm hard to impress. You're a faithful and giving poster, not to mention very insightful and intelligent. You've set me straight more than once, and it has literally set my life on a new and better course. I know that praise from other people doesn't fix anything when you feel crummy about yourself, but try to believe in the sincerity of the people who admire and are grateful to you. I've done a lot of reading on this board, including the archives--especially lately :( --It's so easy to see how loved you are by people on this board. Try to accept and internalize that. Feel it and embrace it as the result of who you are and all you have to give.
Posted by kara lynne on October 8, 2003, at 0:45:02
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him, posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 20:56:40
Oh fallsfall,
I'm reading and reading and just with I could comfort you. It's so easy for me to see it in you, that you are torturing yourself and you didn't do anything to deserve it. Agonizing over details and memories, trying madly for clarity-- the booby traps of the mind. I share that fear of abandonment so it's easy for me to get caught there too, and once your there it's like quicksand. But if you think your way in, there must be a way out (or so I'm told).I don't think anything replaces comfort except comfort. I think if you got that, in one form or another, you might stop beating yourself up. Teddy bears? Friends? A nice hot bath? An extra Sonata?
I wish I could give it to you. I hope you hear Hannah's words--you have given so much here. You deserve it back with many extra scoops.
Posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2003, at 7:05:10
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All » fallsfall, posted by HannahW on October 7, 2003, at 22:16:40
Hannah,
You did get through to me (a little). For a moment I feel like there might be hope that I am worthwhile. I'll go to the library this afternoon - they love me, too. So for a little while today, I'll be OK.
Why am I so convinced the rest of the time that I am so bad? Why, if I detect unhappiness from someone does every subsequent action grow exponentially in importance? Once I think I am failing someone, any miniscule fault I see makes me spiral into evilness.
I'm going to print your post and carry it with me.
Thank you.
Posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2003, at 7:17:25
In reply to (((fallsfall))), posted by kara lynne on October 8, 2003, at 0:45:02
Oh Kara,
Thank you for caring and understanding.
Teddy bears and ice cream comfort me, but they don't comfort my soul.
Yes, I am torturing myself. A kind of self injury? I don't know how to stop.
Hugs help
Posted by HannahW on October 8, 2003, at 12:17:01
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All » HannahW, posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2003, at 7:05:10
When I was really struggling with my self esteem, which I did for a long, long time, one of the things that helped me (although I hated the exercise) was to list ten things about me that I sorta liked--and here's the scary part--and then I shared them with someone I trusted. (In my case, it was my husband.) He affirmed everything on the list, one at a time, and even talked about each item and gave examples of how it was obviously true. Although self-esteem doesn't come from the accolades of other people, it was very affirming for me to have someone acknowledge and agree with the things that I *thought* might be true about me, but needed someone to help me fully embrace those things as absolutely true. We did that several times, and I eventually came to believe that the qualities I *sorta* liked but thought might not be true, really were true.
This probably wouldn't work for everyone, but it did for me. If you don't have anyone you trust enough to do that with, and you wanted to do it, you could post here. Some of them we wouldn't be able to affirm or discredit--like what great hair you have--but other things we could definitely affirm for you.
I really hope you figure this one out. Is it your primary focus in therapy right now? So many other problems stem from self-esteem issues that it's important to resolve. And you WILL resolve it and come to know what a terrific person you are, and how much you have to offer.
Posted by kara lynne on October 8, 2003, at 18:23:39
In reply to Re: (((fallsfall))) » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2003, at 7:17:25
I'm sorry I can't comfort your soul. I thought since you've offered teddies and ice cream to me they might work for you. :(
I hope your feeling better today, though. Yes, well put: that kind of torture is self injury. I was there myself last night after the incident at the doctor's office. My counselor pointed out today that who I should have been angry was with him. Funny, that never occured to me.
Posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2003, at 21:44:10
In reply to Re: (((fallsfall))), posted by kara lynne on October 8, 2003, at 18:23:39
Yes, Kara. Today is a little better. Think of me at 3PM EDT tomorrow, though. Maybe I'll line up a ride home in case I can't drive. There are TWO ice cream places within walking distance from his office. But I have to move my car every two hours.
It's hard to be angry at others (like your doctor) when we are so close and convenient (and, an expression I heard at work was "Round up the usual suspects" - we have to get our names off that list).
Posted by Adia on October 8, 2003, at 22:58:21
In reply to Re: (((fallsfall))) » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2003, at 21:44:10
Dear fallsfall,
Just wanted to wish you the best for your session tomorrow...
Lots of support and a safe hug,
Adia.> Yes, Kara. Today is a little better. Think of me at 3PM EDT tomorrow, though. Maybe I'll line up a ride home in case I can't drive. There are TWO ice cream places within walking distance from his office. But I have to move my car every two hours.
>
> It's hard to be angry at others (like your doctor) when we are so close and convenient (and, an expression I heard at work was "Round up the usual suspects" - we have to get our names off that list).
>
>
Posted by HannahW on October 8, 2003, at 23:13:30
In reply to To fallsfall... , posted by Adia on October 8, 2003, at 22:58:21
You've probably been reading over in Social, but just in case, check it out. You are so LOVED!
Posted by fallsfall on October 9, 2003, at 19:01:13
In reply to More to you, Falls..., posted by HannahW on October 8, 2003, at 23:13:30
Thanks for your support guys.
I brought Ativan with me, and two friend's phone numbers in case I couldn't drive home.
I think everything is OK. He isn't mad.
His dog's name was Skipper (because he has a boat - the doctor does, not the dog)
My head is still spinning. I'll post more tomorrow.
Babblers are wonderful.
Posted by HannahW on October 9, 2003, at 19:09:36
In reply to I survived therapy, posted by fallsfall on October 9, 2003, at 19:01:13
As soon as you're ready, I'm all ears. (or eyes!)
Posted by Dinah on October 9, 2003, at 19:23:12
In reply to I survived therapy, posted by fallsfall on October 9, 2003, at 19:01:13
That's wonderful. And I told you it would be. :)
Babblers are wonderful, you especially included.
Posted by Adia on October 9, 2003, at 20:28:29
In reply to I survived therapy, posted by fallsfall on October 9, 2003, at 19:01:13
Dear Falls,
I am glad it seems everything went well.
I am here too when you're ready to share... :o)
take special care,
Adia.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on October 9, 2003, at 21:15:34
In reply to I survived therapy, posted by fallsfall on October 9, 2003, at 19:01:13
I'm glad that therapy went well for you. You truly are a wonderfull person. You are a great listener, and you care so much about other people. I wish that you could see and know that you are just as good and just as special as all of the people you take so much time with.
People care about you because you are GOOD! I don't think that anyone around here "Babble" deserves the pain and suffering that we've been inflicted with. Certainly, you haven't. Please look to the people you've touched. Believe us. Without you, I wouldn't be who I am. I know that there are many who could say that, and would if they were asked.
So..... just in case you don't know it...
You are a wonderful person.
You are a smart person.
You are a caring person.
You are a gentle person.
You are an honest person.
You are a creative person.
You are a dedicated person.
You are a careful person.
You are a sincere person.
You are a person worth knowing.Well, I think that's a modest start. I'll bet that those who know you will agree. Pick one, and wear it for a day. see how it feels. Then, pick another and wear it for a day. They are all true, think of it as wearing the truth. You are so worth it.
Dee.
Posted by HannahW on October 9, 2003, at 21:33:51
In reply to Re: I survived therapy, posted by deirdrehbrt on October 9, 2003, at 21:15:34
> You are a wonderful person.
> You are a smart person.
> You are a caring person.
> You are a gentle person.
> You are an honest person.
> You are a creative person.
> You are a dedicated person.
> You are a careful person.
> You are a sincere person.
> You are a person worth knowing.Dee, that is really beautiful and couldn't be more true. Do you hear us, dangit, Falls?! We love you! Is this a typical, run-of-the-mill supportive post? No! It's for you because you are special!
When I grow up, I want to be you.
Hannah
Posted by fallsfall on October 10, 2003, at 19:17:56
In reply to Re: I survived therapy, posted by HannahW on October 9, 2003, at 21:33:51
You guys are so sweet, and Hannah, your timing is just about perfect - as you will see.
I was so terrified to go to the session, but I knew I had to go. I was looking "terrified" up in the thesaurus to see if there was a stronger word, but there wasn't.
We did a couple of administrative things (I'm going to see my daughter and my son soon, so I'll miss an appointment etc.). Then I think he brought the subject up. I guess he figured if it was a hot enough topic for me to call him between sessions, that it was something we should talk about. So I took a deep breath, and then another, and I opened my mouth, and I shut it. I tried again, and then told him that I really was trying. Finally I shut my eyes, took some calming breaths and was able to say (whisper?) "I searched for you on the Internet". He waited. I don't know what else he was expecting me to say. He said something to let me know that the world hadn't ended, so I could start to calm down.
He said that the Internet was public information, and that he didn't care if I searched for him. He asked me what I found - there is one site with a professional biography and a picture (I like that!), and 2 sites where his wife mentions him. One of those has a picture of their family in front of their boat (a go out into the ocean kind of boat). I told him that what I really wanted to know was what his dog's name was (cute poodle). He paused for a minute, deciding. I wondered if he would tell me his dog's name. He said that the dog's name was Skipper (boat - skipper??), but that Skipper had died. He asked if I had a dog (I have 2 Cocker Spaniels). He told me that Skipper died of a strangulated bowel (or something like that). It was really clear that he loved and missed his dog (this is my blank slate therapist, mind you). I told him it was hard to lose a pet, and he agreed. So I think he was trying to decide whether to tell me that his beloved dog was dead. But he did. He asked a little about what I had found out about my first therapist. She was hard - because her last name isn't the same as her family's last name. I had to jump through a few hoops to find her address and phone number. I only used publically available things that were in my house. But I told him that I wouldn't tell him how I found her address, and he didn't press. I told him his address was easy - his wife is in the phone book. We talked about what was and was not acceptable behavior for me. Refusing to leave his office, hanging out in the waiting room, waiting outside for him to leave were things that he said were not acceptable. My first therapist had said that it was OK to have the information, but not to use it (like calling her at home was not OK). So we clarified the boundaries. He said he didn't see anything wrong with searching.
He asked me why I had searched, even though I knew it would cause me a lot of pain. I told him that I knew it wasn't wrong for me to do. Then he asked why it caused me so much pain. I said that it was painful because I had been punished before for doing that, and so I was scared that I would be punished again. We repeated these two points maybe 4 or 5 times. He asked if I understood what he was saying. I thought so, and reiterrated my view. I said that I knew that they weren't compatible, but that I couldn't bring them together. (It seemed like a black and white issue to me)
He said that he thought I wanted to be punished. Which doesn't make sense to me (yet?). Though I did tell him that I thought that I wasn't "good enough" and that he would find that out anyway (he told me later that he thought that comment was "insightful"). So he thinks that I was acting in such a way that I would be miserable (and I certainly was for the last 1 1/2 years with my previous therapist). I don't know yet if I agree with him.
He was very calm (and calming). He did a lot of explaining how psychology things work (maybe because I said that when something new came up in therapy that I go to the library to find out about it so that I can understand better - i.e. motivation came up recently). He was gentle. He said things that made me know that he recognized that I was working hard. In other words he was really nice to me (reward the patient for talking about something hard).
I was able to look at him more than I have been. Starting at least a year ago with my old therapist I stopped doing eye contact. I think that I didn't want to see the expression on her face, and see how she was feeling about me. I've never done almost any eye contact with him - but Thursday I could look at him more.
I sat by the water for an hour watching the ducks and seagulls. Then I got a pizza (Artichoke hearts, fresh tomatoes and bacon - it is really good), and then I went for ice cream.
It was hard to get to sleep last night, but I took extra meds (PRN) and there was no school today (teacher's workshop) so I got 10 hours sleep!
Today I spent 3 hours at the library putting circulation statistics in a spreadsheet and making graphs. They came out really nice. But by the end of the three hours I couldn't talk in complete sentances any more. I watched a little TV and had dinner. It is now 8PM and I am ready for bed. I'm supposed to teach skating at 8AM tomorrow, and I missed last week because my daughter was sick. So I think that I will call it a night.
Thanks for keeping me company (and keeping me going) through this.
Falls
P.S. Hannah, your campaign to make me feel worthwhile is so perfectly timed to coincide with my "not good enough" feeling. Thank you.
Posted by Dinah on October 10, 2003, at 19:42:11
In reply to And I'm almost coherent enough to post, posted by fallsfall on October 10, 2003, at 19:17:56
Sounds like you've got a good one. And flexible too.
And supercongratulations for being honest with him. I know how hard it was for you to do. But you weren't abandoned, and he didn't think worse of you.
Don't you feel better now?
Posted by deirdrehbrt on October 10, 2003, at 20:49:41
In reply to And I'm almost coherent enough to post, posted by fallsfall on October 10, 2003, at 19:17:56
Congratulations!
I am so proud of you. This was tearing you apart, and you overcame it. How can anyone claim more pride in one's self than when she does something so difficult, and makes it through the day.
Cudos, applause, bows, accolades, pats on the back, bravo, bravisimo, acclaims, exaultations.
I'm sure there are other words, but I don't have access to that part of my mind right now.
Dee.
Posted by kara lynne on October 10, 2003, at 22:06:04
In reply to And I'm almost coherent enough to post, posted by fallsfall on October 10, 2003, at 19:17:56
I really admire you falls. What a breakthrough session; sounds like both you and he were willing to work hard.
Sleep well my friend.
Posted by HannahW on October 10, 2003, at 22:11:51
In reply to Re: I survived therapy, posted by HannahW on October 9, 2003, at 21:33:51
I'm so glad it went well, Falls! So often it turns out that the things we make such a big deal of turn out to be not so big after all.
Good for you for being so brave! I hope this experience gives you courage in the future to talk about the hard stuff.
And I'm glad my campaign was well timed! Is it working? ;)
Hannah
Posted by underthecs on October 12, 2003, at 17:06:04
In reply to And I'm almost coherent enough to post, posted by fallsfall on October 10, 2003, at 19:17:56
Hi. I know I'm more of a lurker than poster. Hopefully that will change one day. Anyway, I just wanted to thank you Fallsfall for your posts. It is heartwarming to see your courage and watch you overcome what I always seem to be facing. Thank you.
This is the end of the thread.
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