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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on June 7, 2002, at 3:40:58
Hi All,
I know that mania and religious obsession are linked. Being bipolar myself I tend to mistrust any sign of spirituality in myself, since it's linked with moodswings.
I notice when my moods are completely leveled out with medication I totally lose interest in spirituality and faith, questions of God and creation, etc. It just seems unnecessary to think about such things. When I'm a little under-medicated (?) I get really interested in spiritual ideas and find a lot of comfort in them. For instance I can really feel the joy of just noticing and being with the present moment. I also really grasp the idea of the presence of god as some kind of creative loving force driving everything. It all (the sky, my room, bugs on the ground, etc) really does seem vivid, alive, precious, and perfect. I hate thinking that such insights are going to disappear with the next mood cycle, or that they're just products of "craziness".
Any thoughts on this?
Posted by Zo on June 7, 2002, at 4:18:28
In reply to Spirituality and Moodswings, posted by Tabitha on June 7, 2002, at 3:40:58
Yes. My thought is that you are peering right into the living breathing mystery of the mind-body edge. . where there are, mercifully, no hard and fast answers. Isn't that nice?Good question!
Zo
Posted by beardedlady on June 7, 2002, at 5:27:53
In reply to Re: Spirituality and Moodswings, posted by Zo on June 7, 2002, at 4:18:28
Zo:
So glad to see you back on the board posting these gems. Definitely maybe.
xxxxoooo
beardy : )>
Posted by Phil on June 7, 2002, at 12:34:53
In reply to Spirituality and Moodswings, posted by Tabitha on June 7, 2002, at 3:40:58
I'm not bipolar but I can relate. When I was on Amitriptyline in the 80's, I went thru a real spiritual, uh, awakening, I guess you could say.
It faded after a time. Probably when I stopped the drug.
Since then, I have spiritual 'feelings' and pray but neither very much. I guess I'm what the Baptist's would call a backslider!
When someone I know is hurting badly or I'm hurting, or I've hurt someone unknowingly, I don't hesitate to ask for God's intervention. I still don't have a picture in my minds eye of what form God takes. I kinda think he's everywhere but mostly lives within us if we want.
I hope I'm making sense.Phil
ps...Good post Adam. It's all such a mystery.
Posted by Tabitha on June 7, 2002, at 22:13:05
In reply to Re: Spirituality and Moodswings » Tabitha, posted by Phil on June 7, 2002, at 12:34:53
Yes, it makes sense. Sounds like a balanced perspective. Those "out there" states never last no matter what the origin I suppose. Makes me wonder how the the folks who lean toward fanaticism keep up the fervor.
Posted by terra miller on June 8, 2002, at 23:15:03
In reply to Re: Spirituality and Moodswings » Phil, posted by Tabitha on June 7, 2002, at 22:13:05
>
> Yes, it makes sense. Sounds like a balanced perspective. Those "out there" states never last no matter what the origin I suppose. Makes me wonder how the the folks who lean toward fanaticism keep up the fervor.I think they keep it up because they are driven by shame. Sounds blunt, but I think if they'd slow down enough they'd see that some of their opinions aren't valid/or too strong. But since they can't face that, they have to keep up the fervor so they don't have to look at reality, which is way more gray than black/white, imho.
terra
Posted by Tabitha on June 9, 2002, at 3:56:14
In reply to Re: Spirituality and Moodswings » Tabitha, posted by terra miller on June 8, 2002, at 23:15:03
> I think they keep it up because they are driven by shame. <snip!>
Interesting thought. Fervor is a good drug too, though. Some of them are chasing bliss.
Posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 18:42:35
In reply to Re: Spirituality and Moodswings » Phil, posted by Tabitha on June 7, 2002, at 22:13:05
>Makes me wonder how the the folks who lean toward fanaticism keep up the fervor.
psychosis driving andrenalin production..ideas are more addictive than drugs..
Posted by Sally green on June 15, 2002, at 21:32:22
In reply to Spirituality and Moodswings, posted by Tabitha on June 7, 2002, at 3:40:58
Hi:
WOW! That sounds very interesting! How are you otherwise, controlling your manic depressive disorder without meds? Sounds like God is sending you a powerful message! I am not a doctor and would never recommend that you stop taking your meds, but it certainly sounds like God is speaking to you about it! The reaction to life that you state is present when you are slightly undermedicated sounds great! Are there any negatives, for you, to being slightly undermedicated? Maybe you should pray to God about the possibilty that you don't need as much meds as you and your doctor may think! Pray to God to control your moodswings. Tell him that they greatly interfere with your ability to continue your walk with him. Ask him to take them away and thank him in advance, for you have faith that he will remove them from your mind. Continue to talk with him and tell him that you have faith that he honor your prayers. The Bible says ask and you shall receive. Now you must believe that! God is faithful! You seem like you have a great sence of well being when you are less medicated and seeking God.
Peace, Joy and LOve,
Sally
Posted by tabitha on June 16, 2002, at 4:34:18
In reply to Re: Spirituality and Moodswings » Tabitha, posted by Sally green on June 15, 2002, at 21:32:22
Hi Sally,
Thanks for the good wishes. I am still on medication but am noticing a lot more cycling lately, which means more depression as well as hypomania. Hypomania has its pluses-- mainly more creativity, energy, sexuality, and spirituality, but it's not really a very grounded feeling and leads to some poor judgement and doing things that alienate people. Plus it's inevitably followed by a black depression.
I notice that for me, thinking more about God, while it's positive in itself, is also an indicator that my mood is getting unstable. When I'm more balanced I'm either nonreligious or a lukewarm Buddhist. I've been resisting going back to the doctor for a medication change, though I think my resistance has just about been ground down by depression.
Your suggestions about prayer brought up a lot of feelings for me. My mother was intensely religious, and also suffered with depression. She shunned medical and psychological care and prayed for healing instead, but finally committed suicide. In my opinion the intensity of her religious obsession was itself another symptom of her mood disorder, though it was also a source of joy for her. Though I know many sane and wise people believe in prayer, it's linked with tragedy for me.
That's probably why I lean more toward the Eastern religions, though they can be a little impersonal. I defininitely don't have it all worked out yet!
If I may ask, how do you deal with it when your prayers are not answered?
Tabitha
Posted by Sally green on June 16, 2002, at 8:57:38
In reply to Re: Spirituality and Moodswings » Sally green, posted by tabitha on June 16, 2002, at 4:34:18
Hi Tabitha:
Thanks for the letter. That is very sad the way that religion has been and had such a negative outcome for you. As to your questions. As I stated in my previous letter, sometimes God's answer to us is NO! However, the more I read and learn about God and the bible, the true rewards come from believing and faith. Searching the changes that have happened in your life to see if God has answered your prayers, just maybe not given you the answer that you wanted.
I have suffered from addictions all my life. Was a fat kid, 130 pounds in first grade, dealt with alcoholism for 20 years. Currently I am dealing with addictions to opiates following years of suffering with severe pain following car accidents, related to drunk driving mainly. I prayed for 10 years for God to take drinking out of my life! I realize that my life has been sooo out of balance. OCD, although I have never discussed with a professional, I have seen the traits in myself. I could never just have a couple of drinks with friends, have to close down the bar. When I struggled with weight, ate for all the wrong reasons! With the opiates, did far many more than probably required, or needed and might have been much more capable of controlling my pain had I followed the prescribed doses. It got so bad with the booze, that I would get so caught up in guilt and condemnation, that I could waste a whole day pondering useless information. After a good drunk I would privately backtrack my entire night to try and find clues of what I may have done?? At times the emotional stress was overwhelming!! As I stated, one day I turned this lady on TV. I thought she was a comedian!!!LOL!! Just so down to earth, funny and sweet! She was talking about how she used to drink and teach a small bible study in her house while smoking and dressed in hot pants. Joyce humbles herself and God turned her great misery into a tv teaching and preaching ministry that reaches billions of people. I began to think, as she was telling me, God has this terrific plan for ALL of us, unfortunately MOST will fall short of his plan, because of all the things we are discussing. Therefore, when I think my prayers are not being answered, I search through my recent past or present day to see if maybe God has answered my prayer, but I overlooked the answered because it was not the one I desired. It is pretty funny how many prayers have been answered, but when the answer was not the one I would hope for I never realized. these things have ALWAYS worked out to my benefit!!! These changes take alot of time. We are all to impatient! It has been 6 years now since I quit drinking, have lost 100 pounds and kept it off for over 5 years and am now dealing with my pain and addictions to opiates. I have turned these life experiences into the thought that just maybe, with all my planning, God has a different plan for me. I have alot of compassion in my heart, compassion for the addicted that only could be gained through experienceing these things myself!! My plans include, at 39, trying to start a detox or center to help the addicted. If someone would have told me that at 15 or 16, when I was THEEE PARTY GIRL EXTRODONAIR!! I would have laughed!! The changes that God has made in my life are absolutely crazy!! I think of the story of the Israelites. God told them that it would take 11 days to make the trip around the mountain and make it to the Promised Land. It took them 40 years to make that trip!! Only because they would listen to the plan he gave them. Many, like we do, "set up shop" or "settle" some place short of the Promised Land. There is a Promised Land for all of us. unfortunately, most of us settle somewhere inbetween. I have lived with men before and now would never think of it! In my 20's never thought about getting drunk and sleeping with some guy! When I think back on those days, it is like I am thinking about some other girls life!! MANY of the things that I used to do and have no regrets about, are things I would never even think about doing today. I will certainly take all of those 40 years to get around my mountain!! LOL!! Kind of funny, that 40 year thing. Most spend a life time conforming to the acceptable actions of people today. And we can all see what people have made of this world! Truly grasping the concept of God's plan is difficult yet sooooo easy! We want to look at the Bible as some complex and difficult plan for our lives, but truly it is very easy to understand and demands only love, understanding,self contol, caring for others, discpline and balance!! When you think about it, these are the things, that most people today, lack the most.
There are still days that I could get up and let the devil bring all of those things right back into my life!!! He is like a lion, waiting to devour whoever he can. Sometimes I wake with such thoughts of falling back into my old ways, brought on by loneliness, frustration when prayers are not being answered etc. I think how great it would be to go have a couple of drinks, meet some new guy, have a man in my life again, etc. etc. etc. But, then I slap myself in the head and realize that none of that made me happy. The men that I found in these places were less than honorable and it is best to keep the faith and continue with the great work God is completing in me! I know that he has a wonderful plan for me and YOU! It gets hard to keep that in mind sometimes, especially when things are not going the way you would like. But, that is when it is crucial to prove your faith and hold stedfast in your belief that he will bring his plan for your life to conception. (*Just like a woman who is pregnant. We start with "kind of" being pregnant with the word. A lady does not just give birth tomarrow. It takes time for the baby to grow and develope! Like us, we must grow and develope in our faith, until it is time to give birth to the plan God has for our lives!!! A woman will experience morning sickness, depression and many other negative things as a result of her pregnancy, but she does not abort her baby because of them! When she finally gives birth, none of those things matter ever again! She is just so happy and blessed to have this wonderful thing that God has brought into her life! AMEN!!!) This development and growing time is when our faith is being tested the MOST!! I instantly tell myself to get out of bed, get dressed, pray and ask God to take these thoughts out of mind and let me charish this day he has given me. I think of how lucky and blessed I am, not to be in a wheelchair, my injuries were of this magnitude! This seems to work for me! For that I am still so ever greatful to God! The possiblity for any change in our lives is there, God promises that, but still the responsibility to do our part is ever essential. Faith, belief and in my case, seeking some balance, taking control of these thoughts when they occur and praying for God's strength, are all my responsibilities.
Sorry for the less than perfect sentence structure etc, sometimes once I get rolling..... Eventually God does answer all of our prayers. He says he would, in the Bible and he does! The great benefits in the waiting, developement and growing in our trials, is the WISDOM that is gained through these trials!!
Keep writing!
Sally
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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