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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by starblue88 on March 3, 2013, at 9:18:20
Hello lovely people.
I've suffered from depression for 15 years now, 37yo male. Suicidal even recently.
I'm on Effexor XR 150mg plus Zyprexa 2.5 mg at night. Meds never really did that much for me though did save my life in the past in saying that.
Recently went to biobalance center which tests for the Pfeiffer/Walshe-defined imbalances. Came back as low histamine (31), pyroluria (0.16), altered Cu/Zn ratio (Zinc 9.9) and low Omega 3 index (1.1%)
Doc initially diagnosed the pyroluria before lab tests came back and prescribed me with:
Vitamin C 1000mg once or twice daily
Vitamin E 400 IU once daily
Vitamin B6 200mg once daily
Magnesium 500mg twice daily
Fish oils 2/3 gramsThen once tests came back prescribed additionally:
DMAE 100mg Once daily
Niacinamide 500mg morning, 1000 mg evening;
Vitamin B12 2000ug Once daily
Folic Acid 5mg alternate days.After one week on the initial set of supps I felt a considerable boost and improvement which then tapered off.
Then after 2nd prescription I have first added some 300/400mg daily of niacinamide, without adding the other supps as they are in the post to me still since I bought those online.
The niacinamide has given me a boost (it's reduced the symptoms of anxiety and depression) but in another way it's not a nice high really. It's a bit on the anxious/jittery side, with a lot of body tension and a sense of fatigue.
I can't imagine what I would be like if I took the amount that the doc has prescribed. Does anyone know if the high and tension wear off after a while of taking it?
Thing is, ok I'm supposed to be overmethylated but I have more symptoms of undermethylation than overmethylation. Though one thing I really identified with on the overmethylation symptoms was the tendency to think that people think ill of me. This is one thing I would love to lessen or go away.
Anyone else with experience of this (overmethylation) have experience of taking niacinamide or any of the below?
DMAE 100mg Once daily
Vitamin B12 2000ug Once daily
Folic Acid 5mg alternate days.Any comments would be appreciated.
Love,
StarBlue
Posted by Starblue88 on March 3, 2013, at 15:33:38
In reply to Overmethylated, Pyroluria, Cu/Zn, Omega 3 Index, posted by starblue88 on March 3, 2013, at 9:18:20
Just seeing if I can bump this thread up.
Posted by Tomatheus on March 3, 2013, at 21:33:52
In reply to Overmethylated, Pyroluria, Cu/Zn, Omega 3 Index, posted by starblue88 on March 3, 2013, at 9:18:20
StarBlue,
First, I'd like to welcome you to Psycho-Babble. I myself was recently evaluated at an orthomolecular treatment center that sounds like it's similar to the one that you went to, if it's not the same one. I haven't been diagnosed with anything yet, and I'm still waiting for the results of the blood and urine tests that they ordered.
I can identify all too well with experiencing an initial boost from taking supplements, only to have my symptoms return to the intensity that they were at prior to taking the supplements. I don't know why, but that seems to be the way that a lot of supplements that I take affect me. It seems that some others do experience long-term benefits from supplements, but for me the only supplement that has any kind of lasting effect is Korean ginseng. And all that that does is slightly cut down on my excessive need for sleep. I hope that you're not too much like me in the way that you respond to supplements and that you find something that helps in the long run, but I don't think it's a good sign that you seem to have lost some of the initial benefits that you were getting from your supplements.
I'm not sure if I'm low histamine/overmethylated or not (as I mentioned, the tests that I had done following my visit to the orthomolecular treatment center have yet to come back), but I have taken niacinamide. I took 500 mg when I tried it and liked what I experienced on day one (an increase in energy, which didn't make me too jittery, although I wouldn't discount that it can do that in someone else), but didn't like the way I felt after that (less energy with increased cognitive impairment). I don't think I've ever stayed on niacinamide for more than a few days at a time, so unfortunately, I can't say what staying on the vitamin for a long time would feel like.
My responses to DMAE, vitamin B12, and folic acid were negative, positive, and neutral, respectively. The positive response that I had to vitamin B12 the last time I took it, of course, didn't last beyond a few days. Of course, my responses to the supplements might not be predictive of the way that you're likely to respond to them. I may not be low in histamine, and I probably don't have what the orthomolecular doctors identify as pyroluria, so assuming that my biotypes are different from yours, my responses to supplements may end up being different from yours.
One thing I'm curious about from reading your post is why the orthomolecular doctor you saw didn't recommend taking zinc. I know that Dr. Pfeiffer himself used zinc as part of the treatment plan for the patients that he identified as having pyroluria, so I wonder if you too might benefit from taking zinc. Then again, maybe the fact that you have the altered Cu/Zn ratio might be the reason why you haven't been advised to take zinc, but I know that zinc is generally recommended for those who test positive for what the orthomolecular doctors call pyroluria.
Well, that sums up everything that I have to say. I don't know how helpful my post has been, but I hope that you get the answers that you're looking for and that your supplement regimen ends up working out well for you. I wish you the best of luck with everything.
Tomatheus
Posted by starblue88 on March 4, 2013, at 12:53:07
In reply to Re: Overmethylated, Pyroluria, Cu/Zn, Omega 3 Index, posted by Tomatheus on March 3, 2013, at 21:33:52
Hi Tomatheus
Thanks, I meant to post that I was prescribed and am taking 50mg Zinc per day for the Pyroluria and Cu/Zn ratio impairment.
I emailed my ODoc last night about my adverse reaction to the niacinamide and he told me to stop taking it. Still today I feel quite intoxicated and unwell from it, but I feel better when I eat.
I take your point regarding effects of certain nutrients not lasting, but my ODoc advised that this can happen (good response which tapers off) but gladly the long term results (2-4 months) to be good if the patient is compliant with the regime.
I got the DMEA, B12 and Folic Acid today in the post.
I'm taking a previous thread poster's advice and going to start each one individually, starting with the DMEA, journal the experience and see how I fare on each.I also went to my regular doc to ask him to put me on lithium. He said he can't prescribe it as it needs to be a psychiatrist who does it so he's referring me to a psychiatrist. I was on lithium years ago and fared pretty well on it. I read here http://www.walshinstitute.org/Overmethylation.asp that lithium is good for overmethylated.
I was telling him how useless the Efexor was and he suggested going onto a more modern AD like Lexapro. In my experience, I told him, it's an absolute nightmare coming off one AD and going onto another and no way was I going to do it. He looked perplexed and said that wasn't his experience with patients. What planet are you on though I of him.
Anyone else with experience/opinions?
Thanks
StarBlue
Posted by bleauberry on March 7, 2013, at 15:06:36
In reply to Overmethylated, Pyroluria, Cu/Zn, Omega 3 Index, posted by starblue88 on March 3, 2013, at 9:18:20
I'm glad you are on those supplements and they help some. They aren't really much in terms of doses. Lots of people take that amount or much more as daily routine.
Does the B6 include some of the p5p version of it? B12, folic acid, and niacin....they also have other forms that are pre-metabolized for immediate use by the body (no chance of genetic problems interfering with their conversion). If it's just plain jane common Bs you are taking, I would be suspect of the clinicians. What is the cofactor of the magnesium? Is it oxide, citrate, glycinate, malate, etc? That also is an important factor.
Anyway I think the body talks to us and tells us what is good, what isn't, and how much. It sounds like you are listening, as in the case of niacin.
I can think of a bunch of other stuff to put in your warchest, but probably the top of the list is Rhodiola Rosea.
Posted by starblue88 on May 2, 2013, at 13:39:12
In reply to Re: Overmethylated, Pyroluria, Cu/Zn, Omega 3 Index, posted by bleauberry on March 7, 2013, at 15:06:36
Hi
Long time since I posted, thanks for the input but Rhodiola can't be taken with an SSRI/SNRI like Efexor that I am on....serotonin syndrome, not nice I can tell you..I tried it before, was very unwell for a few days.
Anyway, I'm overmethylated, so lack of serotonin is not the problem, there's too much if anything. Serotonin is what Rhodiola works on. I've learned that it's more norepinephrine, GABA and dopamine that are my problem. Niacin defo doesn't suit me and neither does folic acid, even 400mcg of it has me in bed, even though both are supposed to work great for overmethylated types like me.
Anyway, since posting here I read the excellent free to download book "The Way Up From Down" by Dr Priscilla Slagle MD. Download it here for free:
http://www.thewayup.com/ebook/f/TheWayUp.pdf
...and have been taking 2grams of l-tyrosine and 1.5 grams of dl-phenylalanine per day. I feel so much better, even in the space of 3 weeks. She says her program works for almost everybody with depression. Hopefully it continues to improve for me.
I'm still taking the other supplements also, though the logistics of it now are tough as it's a lot of tablets to swallow.
You can start at page 52 in her book. Follow the instructions carefully. Don't take l-tryptophan when still taking antidepressants as she has recommended or you'll get very ill (serotonin syndrome again). Most won't need it anyway. There's a summary of her protocol at http://www.thewayup.com/newsletters/111501.htm
She cured her own depression using this protocol but it took 3 months before it worked properly for her, so give it time to work.
I get my supplements on iherb.com even though I live in Ireland. Even with the shipping of $10 or $11 it's still much cheaper. If you want to order from there and get a 5-10% discount on your first order you can use my discount code RAD889 at checkout.
Posted by starblue88 on July 9, 2013, at 15:22:49
In reply to Re: Overmethylated, Pyroluria, Cu/Zn, Omega 3 Index, posted by starblue88 on May 2, 2013, at 13:39:12
CRASHED OUT BAD ON THE ABOVE (dl-phenylalanine, l-tyrosine) after 3 weeks - had a breakdown. The initial good feeling wore off and was replaced by severe anxiety, depression.
Those supplements aren't recommended (contra-indicated) when over-methylated - see http://digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C376401.html
Be careful!
Posted by starblue88 on January 2, 2014, at 13:17:20
In reply to Re: Overmethylated, Pyroluria, Cu/Zn, Omega 3 Inde, posted by starblue88 on July 9, 2013, at 15:22:49
I feel great now, a good few months later.
I've found a fantastic supplement combination that's staving off anxiety and depression very well and I have an enormous sense of wellbeing.
I'm taking:
- 10-15mg daily of DHEA http://www.iherb.com/jarrow-formulas-dhea-10-10-mg-90-capsules/16817/?rcode=RAD889
- 15mg Lithium Orotate daily http://www.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-Best-Lithium-Orotate-200-Tablets/22628/?rcode=RAD889
- 4x daily Life Essence http://www.iherb.com/Pure-Essence-LifeEssence-The-Master-Multiple-240-Tablets/30246/?rcode=RAD889
- 2x Ashwaganda extract daily at night http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Ashwagandha-Root-Extract-60-Veggie-Caps/10429/?rcode=RAD889Feel great and the DHEA really helps with chronic inflammation also.
Hope this helps!
\> CRASHED OUT BAD ON THE ABOVE (dl-phenylalanine, l-tyrosine) after 3 weeks - had a breakdown. The initial good feeling wore off and was replaced by severe anxiety, depression.
>
> Those supplements aren't recommended (contra-indicated) when over-methylated - see http://digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C376401.html
>
> Be careful!
Posted by Tomatheus on January 2, 2014, at 18:13:04
In reply to Re: Overmethylated, Pyroluria, Cu/Zn, Omega 3 Inde, posted by starblue88 on January 2, 2014, at 13:17:20
Starblue88,
It's great to hear that you're doing well on your supplement regimen. I wish you continued success with your treatment.
Tomatheus
Posted by starblue88 on January 2, 2014, at 18:18:43
In reply to Re: Overmethylated, Pyroluria, Cu/Zn, Omega 3 Inde » starblue88, posted by Tomatheus on January 2, 2014, at 18:13:04
Thanks Tomatheus
Oh - I forgot to mention - I have used both the Linden Method and Panic away as talked about in this review
http://unitycosmos.com/2013/06/linden-method-review-does-it-really-work/...which totally annihilated the anxiety before I even got my hands on the DHEA etc..but the DHEA and the other nutrients have really been the icing on the cake - I'm now of the opinion that adrenal exhaustion was really at the nub of my problem (DHEA really helps with this).
Hope this helps!
Thanks
Posted by starblue88 on February 19, 2014, at 12:10:27
In reply to Re: Overmethylated, Pyroluria, Cu/Zn, Omega 3 Inde, posted by starblue88 on January 2, 2014, at 13:17:20
I've also added some raw vegan protein to the mix and am doing even better now, some physical pain is gone also
http://www.iherb.com/Garden-of-Life-RAW-Protein-Beyond-Organic-Protein-Formula-22-oz-622-g/22343/?rcode=RAD889
I mix it with a fruit smoothie mix and some spring water and have it for supper so that I heal overnight while I'm asleep. It's been fantastic for my energy and muscle tone.I've also been taking Vitamin D3 5000iu, Vitamin E 400iu and Iodine (Iodoral) 25mg for thyroid and energy support.
http://www.iherb.com/Natural-Factors-E-400-IU-180-Softgels/2571/?rcode=RAD889
http://www.iherb.com/iHerb-Nutritionals-Vitamin-D3-5-000-IU-120-Softgels/50807/?rcode=RAD889
http://www.iherb.com/Optimox-Corporation-Iodoral-180-Tablets/23904/?rcode=RAD889Hope this helps someone.
> I feel great now, a good few months later.
> I've found a fantastic supplement combination that's staving off anxiety and depression very well and I have an enormous sense of wellbeing.
> I'm taking:
> - 10-15mg daily of DHEA http://www.iherb.com/jarrow-formulas-dhea-10-10-mg-90-capsules/16817/?rcode=RAD889
> - 15mg Lithium Orotate daily http://www.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-Best-Lithium-Orotate-200-Tablets/22628/?rcode=RAD889
> - 4x daily Life Essence http://www.iherb.com/Pure-Essence-LifeEssence-The-Master-Multiple-240-Tablets/30246/?rcode=RAD889
> - 2x Ashwaganda extract daily at night http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Ashwagandha-Root-Extract-60-Veggie-Caps/10429/?rcode=RAD889
>
> Feel great and the DHEA really helps with chronic inflammation also.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
>
> \> CRASHED OUT BAD ON THE ABOVE (dl-phenylalanine, l-tyrosine) after 3 weeks - had a breakdown. The initial good feeling wore off and was replaced by severe anxiety, depression.
> >
> > Those supplements aren't recommended (contra-indicated) when over-methylated - see http://digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C376401.html
> >
> > Be careful!
>
This is the end of the thread.
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