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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 9, 2009, at 18:00:33
I developed psychosis when I was 33, but I had been sick for many years prior. Before the psychosis I presented with depression, mood problems, and social anxiety. I was treated mainly for depression and anxiety. After the psychosis, I was treated for everything. The medications are important for preventing a relapse of symptoms, but I know that vitamins are actually very helpful for mood, anxiety, and depression. I wouldn't be without them. The thing that is quite tricky is to determine the exact vitamins you need and the dosages of each one. I have spent two years figuring this out. These are the vitamins that helped me:
Fish oil
Borage oil
Vitamin B1
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B12
Vitamin B3
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
zinc picolinate
calciumThese are primarily the only vitamins I really need for good mental health in addition to my medications. Dosages are important. For instance, I can only tolerate so much fish and borage oils, but when you discover the right dosages of these two, they really do help with depression. The B-vitamins really do help as well. For instance, I need 200mg of Vitamin B1 everyday. I can only tolerate 100mg of B6 per day. With B12, I initially took 750 mcg per day for six months, then afterwards I only needed about 125mcg per day. Niacin or B3 is important as well. I load up on the Niacin at bedtime. You really have to adjust your dosage of this vitamin until you find a dosage you can tolerate. I take 1,000mg of B3 at bedtime because that's all I can tolerate. Zinc picolinate is important for some people with depression. I only take 33mg per day. Calcium is very helpful for my depression at 300mg per day, but I have had some insomnia because of it if I take it for an extended period of time.
Vitamin E and C are highly necessary for schizophrenia. Dosages of these two can vary from person to person. For example, I can only tolerate 500mg of Vitamin C per day, but with vitamin E I can take up to 400IU during the daytime and 400IU at bedtime. With Vitamin E, you may have to slowly increase your dosage over time. You can start with 100IU, then 200IU, then 300IU, and finally, 400IU per day. That's how I did it.Magnesium may also help some people with schizophrenia. I have had some success with this mineral in the past, but today I rather dislike its effect on me.
Also, folic acid may benefit some people with schizophrenia. Personally, I did not have good experiences with folic acid. Instead, I do much better with Vitamin B12.
Posted by garnet71 on May 9, 2009, at 21:25:01
In reply to Vitamins critical for schizophrenia, posted by Lao Tzu on May 9, 2009, at 18:00:33
Lao--That's great you figured out what works for you! I'm still in the process and am frustrated...have had some bad reactions from supplmenets and some vitamins, etc.
Zinc - I have zinc gluconate - what is the diff. between the picolinate and gluconate; is there an advantage of one over the other? When I tried it, it made my brain feel fuzzy.
Vitamin E - I have High Gamma/100% natural mixed tocopherols which contains 200 mg d-Gamma; 78 mg d-Delta & d-Beta plus 2 mg Tocotrienols (whatever that is).
The Vitamin E made both my son and I really nauseous for some reason. the last time I took it there was no nausea. Maybe i took it w/food that time, but my son said he took his w/food and felt the same way. I do usually eat Kiwis weekly to get the E, but it is not often practical.
I'm not getting the benefits from supplements because it is all too overwhelming to figure out!!..so maybe I'll start by checking into those 2 to a greater extent.
I've been reading up on Taurine though, as recommended by another member here--there is a lot of research papers on it and it seems that stuff sounds great-I am going to get some. do you know anything about that? Capsules/brand, etc.
Thanks :-)
Posted by desolationrower on May 13, 2009, at 14:46:06
In reply to Re: Vitamins critical for schizophrenia » Lao Tzu, posted by garnet71 on May 9, 2009, at 21:25:01
pistachios have a tonne of vitamin e. almonds have a lot of alpha tocopherol. wheat bran has large amounts of tocotrienols.
well i owe you some primary source material, so i uploaded the vitamin e charts:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/dwb/AmazonOnlineReader-VitaminEinHealth.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/dwb/VitaminEinHealthandDisease-Googl-5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/dwb/VitaminEinHealthandDisease-Googl-4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/dwb/VitaminEinHealthandDisease-Googl-3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/dwb/VitaminEinHealthandDisease-Googl-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/dwb/VitaminEinHealthandDisease-Googl-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/dwb/VitaminEinHealthandDisease-GoogleBo.jpgtaurine is pretty flavorless i'd buy it in bulk powder form
-d/r
Posted by garnet71 on May 14, 2009, at 11:31:59
In reply to Re: Vitamins critical for schizophrenia, posted by desolationrower on May 13, 2009, at 14:46:06
lol! wouldn't it have been easier to cut and paste the lists rather than image the charts in photobucket????? Do you have a photobucket collection of every vitamin and mineral? lol No-I want a spreadsheet in Excel-of all the vitamins, amino acides, etec. I should take--and my personal neurotransmitter map--get on that!
No, really thanks. Almonds are getting too expensive for me! but I love the raw, unsalted ones-they make good snacks. That Fischer brand has the freshest ones-they taste like Amaretto or Frangelica. I was buying the cheaper ones at Aldis and they are all old and stale.
One of the items in the charts was "salad dressing, regular". I wonder what regular salad dressing is? lol
I'll be expecting that Excel chart by Monday.
Posted by desolationrower on May 16, 2009, at 21:05:21
In reply to Re: Vitamins critical for schizophrenia, posted by garnet71 on May 14, 2009, at 11:31:59
> lol! wouldn't it have been easier to cut and paste the lists rather than image the charts in photobucket????? Do you have a photobucket collection of every vitamin and mineral? lol No-I want a spreadsheet in Excel-of all the vitamins, amino acides, etec. I should take--and my personal neurotransmitter map--get on that!
>
> No, really thanks. Almonds are getting too expensive for me! but I love the raw, unsalted ones-they make good snacks. That Fischer brand has the freshest ones-they taste like Amaretto or Frangelica. I was buying the cheaper ones at Aldis and they are all old and stale.
>
> One of the items in the charts was "salad dressing, regular". I wonder what regular salad dressing is? lol
>
> I'll be expecting that Excel chart by Monday.haha. it was from a book. i found the pages on googlebooks and amazon, and did a printscreen. never thought to convert them...
and get almonds at trader joes. they're 2x as much as peanuts, but peanuts are cliche for cheap. of course i only buy raw if i'm making granola
-d/r
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 17, 2009, at 9:32:41
In reply to Re: Vitamins critical for schizophrenia » Lao Tzu, posted by garnet71 on May 9, 2009, at 21:25:01
Vitamins can have very powerful effects on your mental state. For me, zinc picolinate is a very effective form of zinc, whereas zinc gluconate doesn't work as well for me. I really need the zinc because it does help with my depression. I may have the disorder pyroluria because I seem to do well on zinc picolinate and P5P, which is the activated coenzyme of B6. In addition, I need vitamin E and vitamin C because those two vitamins are recommended for those with schizophrenia. The way I figured this out was to take only a few vitamins at a time and determine whether or not they helped me. You have to try different combinations. Years ago, I was taking a combination of B6, magnesium, zinc, B3, and B12 which helped very much. I had a B12 deficiency for about six months, then it cleared up after that. I eventually realized that I also needed to add vitamins C and E to my regimen, and then later fish oils for omega-3 and borage oil for omega-6 fatty acids. Eventually, I stopped taking magnesium because I felt like I didn't need it. I started taking a large dose of Niacin (B3) at bedtime, which helped my depression the following day, and I've been doing this ever since. I know firsthand how frustrating it is to figure out a vitamin regimen that works just for you. I just kept trying different combinations of vitamins until I found the one that worked the best. This takes a lot of effort and trial-and-error, and because doctors really won't help you with this, unfortunately, it's something you have to play with on your own. One thing I must note is that I'm also taking prescription medications for my worst symptoms. Taking your medication is a very necessary thing to do everyday if you have a severe mental disorder. Adding the vitamins enhances your ability to function more normally when you've stabilized on your medication. I'm a testament to someone who can do rather well if you're doing it right. I'm even thinking of going back to work, which I never would have believed two years ago. From what I've been researching all this time, some people require very specific vitamins to get well. Some people do very well with B12 and folic acid. Others need B6 (P5P) and zinc. Others require calcium, magnesium, vitamin E and vitamin C to name a few. People with depression can also benefit well from fish and borage oils, but you have to be careful with these, and it may take a little time to figure out the proper dosage of these oils for your individual biochemistry. I wouldn't be without fish and borage oils for one day because they have made a big difference in my depression and mood. Be careful not to take too much borage oil. Just the right amount can help your depression. Too much can worsen it. Same thing goes for fish oil. The oils are a little tricky to work with, but if you are patient and give them some time, they will most likely help you. For me, taking individual amino acids don't help me like they do for other people. Taurine may be helpful for some people, but I never did well on that one. In the past, I've had some success with the amino acids Tyrosine and Glycine, but I don't take them now.
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on May 17, 2009, at 19:53:26
In reply to Re: Vitamins critical for schizophrenia, posted by Lao Tzu on May 17, 2009, at 9:32:41
Dear Lao Tzu (love your name), I have read several of your posts, and want to say that I'm really impressed with how focused you are on being well and with how much you have found out about what it takes for you to be well. I have a sister with your condition and she is not half as functioning as you are. Partly, that's because she didn't get the help she needed (and when she tried, she was misdiagnosed and given the wrong meds), so she was in psychosis for a relatively long time before getting stabilized. I hope that in complimenting you, I am not being condescending. It just gives me a lot of hope for my sister that maybe one day she can be as well as you. (She is on meds; they don't eliminate the positive symptoms; she still battles them.) ~Amelia
> Vitamins can have very powerful effects on your mental state. For me, zinc picolinate is a very effective form of zinc, whereas zinc gluconate doesn't work as well for me. I really need the zinc because it does help with my depression. I may have the disorder pyroluria because I seem to do well on zinc picolinate and P5P, which is the activated coenzyme of B6. In addition, I need vitamin E and vitamin C because those two vitamins are recommended for those with schizophrenia. The way I figured this out was to take only a few vitamins at a time and determine whether or not they helped me. You have to try different combinations. Years ago, I was taking a combination of B6, magnesium, zinc, B3, and B12 which helped very much. I had a B12 deficiency for about six months, then it cleared up after that. I eventually realized that I also needed to add vitamins C and E to my regimen, and then later fish oils for omega-3 and borage oil for omega-6 fatty acids. Eventually, I stopped taking magnesium because I felt like I didn't need it. I started taking a large dose of Niacin (B3) at bedtime, which helped my depression the following day, and I've been doing this ever since. I know firsthand how frustrating it is to figure out a vitamin regimen that works just for you. I just kept trying different combinations of vitamins until I found the one that worked the best. This takes a lot of effort and trial-and-error, and because doctors really won't help you with this, unfortunately, it's something you have to play with on your own. One thing I must note is that I'm also taking prescription medications for my worst symptoms. Taking your medication is a very necessary thing to do everyday if you have a severe mental disorder. Adding the vitamins enhances your ability to function more normally when you've stabilized on your medication. I'm a testament to someone who can do rather well if you're doing it right. I'm even thinking of going back to work, which I never would have believed two years ago. From what I've been researching all this time, some people require very specific vitamins to get well. Some people do very well with B12 and folic acid. Others need B6 (P5P) and zinc. Others require calcium, magnesium, vitamin E and vitamin C to name a few. People with depression can also benefit well from fish and borage oils, but you have to be careful with these, and it may take a little time to figure out the proper dosage of these oils for your individual biochemistry. I wouldn't be without fish and borage oils for one day because they have made a big difference in my depression and mood. Be careful not to take too much borage oil. Just the right amount can help your depression. Too much can worsen it. Same thing goes for fish oil. The oils are a little tricky to work with, but if you are patient and give them some time, they will most likely help you. For me, taking individual amino acids don't help me like they do for other people. Taurine may be helpful for some people, but I never did well on that one. In the past, I've had some success with the amino acids Tyrosine and Glycine, but I don't take them now.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 24, 2009, at 11:14:37
In reply to Re: Vitamins critical for schizophrenia » Lao Tzu, posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on May 17, 2009, at 19:53:26
What about nicotine? The patch or gum?
This is the end of the thread.
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