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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sarah T. on June 6, 2005, at 1:28:10
Does anyone know how phosphatidylserine lowers cortisol? Do all forms of phosphatidylserine lower cortisol or just the bovine form? I would never take bovine-derived PS. I'd take only a plant-based form.
Posted by KaraS on June 6, 2005, at 2:40:23
In reply to Phosphatidylserine and Cortisol, posted by Sarah T. on June 6, 2005, at 1:28:10
> Does anyone know how phosphatidylserine lowers cortisol? Do all forms of phosphatidylserine lower cortisol or just the bovine form? I would never take bovine-derived PS. I'd take only a plant-based form.
I don't know the mechanism involved but I didn't think you could buy the bovine drived form of PS anymore. Maybe outside of the U.S. but everything I've seen here is the soy based form.
Posted by Jakeman on June 6, 2005, at 22:20:34
In reply to Re: Phosphatidylserine and Cortisol » Sarah T., posted by KaraS on June 6, 2005, at 2:40:23
> > Does anyone know how phosphatidylserine lowers cortisol? Do all forms of phosphatidylserine lower cortisol or just the bovine form? I would never take bovine-derived PS. I'd take only a plant-based form.
>
>
> I don't know the mechanism involved but I didn't think you could buy the bovine drived form of PS anymore. Maybe outside of the U.S. but everything I've seen here is the soy based form.
>Seems like most of the studies I've looked at used the bovine form. I've used the soy form and I definitely get positive results. I would rate phosphatidylserine among the top five supplements for mental functioning.
Posted by Sarah T. on June 7, 2005, at 0:45:32
In reply to Re: Phosphatidylserine and Cortisol » Sarah T., posted by KaraS on June 6, 2005, at 2:40:23
Hi Kara. I don't know whether the bovine form is prohibited in the U.S. I guess it should be, but there are so many supplements still available at the health food store that are derived from animal parts, including sheep and cows. Eeek! The very thought of it makes me feel sick.
Posted by Sarah T. on June 7, 2005, at 0:47:24
In reply to Re: Phosphatidylserine and Cortisol, posted by Jakeman on June 6, 2005, at 22:20:34
Hi Jakeman,
That's great to hear that you've done so well on phosphatidylserine. What other supplements do you rate among the top five for mental functioning?
Posted by KaraS on June 7, 2005, at 1:08:19
In reply to Re: Phosphatidylserine and Cortisol, posted by Jakeman on June 6, 2005, at 22:20:34
> > > Does anyone know how phosphatidylserine lowers cortisol? Do all forms of phosphatidylserine lower cortisol or just the bovine form? I would never take bovine-derived PS. I'd take only a plant-based form.
> >
> >
> > I don't know the mechanism involved but I didn't think you could buy the bovine drived form of PS anymore. Maybe outside of the U.S. but everything I've seen here is the soy based form.
> >
>
> Seems like most of the studies I've looked at used the bovine form. I've used the soy form and I definitely get positive results. I would rate phosphatidylserine among the top five supplements for mental functioning.
I have used the soy based form but probably didn't take enough to notice a difference (because it's so expensive). How much do you take?
Posted by KaraS on June 7, 2005, at 1:10:55
In reply to Re: Phosphatidylserine and Cortisol » KaraS, posted by Sarah T. on June 7, 2005, at 0:45:32
> Hi Kara. I don't know whether the bovine form is prohibited in the U.S. I guess it should be, but there are so many supplements still available at the health food store that are derived from animal parts, including sheep and cows. Eeek! The very thought of it makes me feel sick.
It is scary but I remember some of the things I've looked into that were made from animal parts, claimed to be safe for one reason or another. They reasons usually made sense to me.
Posted by Jakeman on June 7, 2005, at 11:27:57
In reply to Re: Phosphatidylserine and Cortisol » Sarah T., posted by KaraS on June 7, 2005, at 1:10:55
Sarah, Kara:
I have used the brand from vitacost.com called NSI Phosphatidylserine Complex (60-500mg $18.95)
It has 20% elemental PS, i.e. 100 mg. of PS. I usually take one between meals. I use on an as- needed basis. I've noticed many of the human studies have used 300 mg.The following is taken from the Degussa website, who manufacture the brand Leci-PS. It's is pretty good for a company web-site, with detailed references and illustrations which show the mechanism of action.
"Early studies were performed with PS derived from the brains of cattle (bovine cortex PS). However, due to safety issues, all studies with bovine-derived PS were stopped after BSE was first discovered among cattle in England. BioActives (formerly Lucas Meyer) introduced an innovative and safe soy-derived PS under its trademark Leci-PS in the mid-1990s. Animal studies and human clinical trials proved that soy-derived PS is as efficacious as bovine-derived PS. A clinical trial by Crook (1998) showed that three months of Leci-PS supplementation has effects on memory and cognition that are comparable to those of bovine-derived PS, with results even slightly favoring the soy-derived Leci-PS." http://www.leci-ps.com/bioactives/html/e/products/brands/lecips/index.htm
My top five supplements for mental functioning?
My favorites currently would be:
phosphatidylserine
NADH
Rhodiola
Glutamine
DLPA/TyrosineI've listed stuff that's fairly quick acting, and excluding the basics such as fish oil and B complex.
Honorable mention is Red Bull which has gotten me through several late afternoon meetings when I felt brain dead. Another supplement I like is Brain Elevate by Now.
What are your top five?
be well, ~J
Posted by Jakeman on June 7, 2005, at 12:00:54
In reply to Re: PS and top 5 brain supplements-Sarah » KaraS, posted by Jakeman on June 7, 2005, at 11:27:57
Forgot to mention, I take Wellbutrin. Could PS have an augmenting or synergistic effect with Wellbutrin?
This study mentions the cortisol blunting and mood improving effect:
Nutr Neurosci. 2001;4(3):169-78. Related Articles, Links
The influence of phosphatidylserine supplementation on mood and heart rate when faced with an acute stressor.
Benton D, Donohoe RT, Sillance B, Nabb S.
Department of Psychology, University of Wales Swansea, United Kingdom. d.benton@swansea.ac.uk
There have been previous reports that supplements of phosphatidylserine (PS) blunted the release of cortisol in response to exercise stress and that it improved mood. The present study extended these observations by considering whether PS supplementation influenced subjective feelings of stress and the change in heart rate when a stressful mental arithmetic task was performed. In young adults, with neuroticism scores above rather than below the median, the taking of 300mg PS each day for a month was associated with feeling less stressed and having a better mood. The study for the first time reports an improvement in mood following PS supplementation in a sub-group of young healthy adults.
PMID: 11842886 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by KaraS on June 7, 2005, at 14:55:18
In reply to Re: PS and top 5 brain supplements-Sarah » KaraS, posted by Jakeman on June 7, 2005, at 11:27:57
> Sarah, Kara:
>
> I have used the brand from vitacost.com called NSI Phosphatidylserine Complex (60-500mg $18.95)
> It has 20% elemental PS, i.e. 100 mg. of PS. I usually take one between meals. I use on an as- needed basis. I've noticed many of the human studies have used 300 mg.
>
> The following is taken from the Degussa website, who manufacture the brand Leci-PS. It's is pretty good for a company web-site, with detailed references and illustrations which show the mechanism of action.
>
> "Early studies were performed with PS derived from the brains of cattle (bovine cortex PS). However, due to safety issues, all studies with bovine-derived PS were stopped after BSE was first discovered among cattle in England. BioActives (formerly Lucas Meyer) introduced an innovative and safe soy-derived PS under its trademark Leci-PS in the mid-1990s. Animal studies and human clinical trials proved that soy-derived PS is as efficacious as bovine-derived PS. A clinical trial by Crook (1998) showed that three months of Leci-PS supplementation has effects on memory and cognition that are comparable to those of bovine-derived PS, with results even slightly favoring the soy-derived Leci-PS." http://www.leci-ps.com/bioactives/html/e/products/brands/lecips/index.htm
>
> My top five supplements for mental functioning?
>
> My favorites currently would be:
>
> phosphatidylserine
> NADH
> Rhodiola
> Glutamine
> DLPA/Tyrosine
>
> I've listed stuff that's fairly quick acting, and excluding the basics such as fish oil and B complex.
>
> Honorable mention is Red Bull which has gotten me through several late afternoon meetings when I felt brain dead. Another supplement I like is Brain Elevate by Now.
>
> What are your top five?
>
> be well, ~J
>
>
Hi Jake,Thanks for the links. Up to this point I had only read on Ray Sahelian's site where he said that the studies were mixed as to whether the soy PS was as good as the bovine PS. He claims that the bovine PS has other factors or co-factors in it that the soy doesn't have. But lots of people do report benefit from the soy PS so I think that's proof enough for me.
I am sad to say that I don't have a list of 5 supplements that have worked well for me. I haven't noticed that any of them have helped me much with cognition. Of your list, I haven't tried glutamine yet. I have also yet to try the racetams or any of the other nootropics though. There may be some reason that I'm not getting much benefit from the supplements. I think I really need to get a thorough labwork testing.
So far coffee is the only item on my list. I'm going to try Red Bull soon so hopefully that will be on there too.
k
Posted by KaraS on June 7, 2005, at 15:09:51
In reply to Re: PS, wellbutrin, cortisol, posted by Jakeman on June 7, 2005, at 12:00:54
> Forgot to mention, I take Wellbutrin. Could PS have an augmenting or synergistic effect with Wellbutrin?
>
> This study mentions the cortisol blunting and mood improving effect:
>
> Nutr Neurosci. 2001;4(3):169-78. Related Articles, Links
>
> The influence of phosphatidylserine supplementation on mood and heart rate when faced with an acute stressor.
>
> Benton D, Donohoe RT, Sillance B, Nabb S.
>
> Department of Psychology, University of Wales Swansea, United Kingdom. d.benton@swansea.ac.uk
>
> There have been previous reports that supplements of phosphatidylserine (PS) blunted the release of cortisol in response to exercise stress and that it improved mood. The present study extended these observations by considering whether PS supplementation influenced subjective feelings of stress and the change in heart rate when a stressful mental arithmetic task was performed. In young adults, with neuroticism scores above rather than below the median, the taking of 300mg PS each day for a month was associated with feeling less stressed and having a better mood. The study for the first time reports an improvement in mood following PS supplementation in a sub-group of young healthy adults.
>
> PMID: 11842886 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>
I wouldn't be surprised if the PS works well with Wellbutrin. Dr. Priscilla Slagle lists these properties of PS on her web site:-Improve the fluidity & permeability of brain & all cell membranes (critical to proper cell functioning).
-Stimulate neurotransmitter release.
-Increase brain glucose consumption & utilization.
It would make sense that these things would help an antidepressant to work better.
I have a feeling that I would get more of a response if I took 300 mg. a day for a few months but I can't afford to try that now. But it's definitely on my list just as soon as I win that lottery!
k
Posted by Declan on June 7, 2005, at 17:57:55
In reply to Re: PS, wellbutrin, cortisol » Jakeman, posted by KaraS on June 7, 2005, at 15:09:51
Interesting what you've got to say about combinations of pharmaceuticals and supplements.
For 3 days I've been taking moclobemide for want of something better (Parnate, Nardil). I also take deprenyl (1-2mg/d), SAME (400mg/d), and other stuff (B6, 5htp, protein powder), can't think what else would be relevant.
Anyway the 1st day i took 150mg (1 tablet) am. Too stimulating, insomnia. 2nd day 75mg. Too stimulating. 3rd day 37.5mg. Not so bad, but still noticeably stimulating. Some mood improvement, the only nice aspect apart from the slight prosexual feeling.
It is said that this drug has very few side effects. Some people report it being ineffective in doses up to 1g or more. If I took anything like that I'd be a writeoff. So I guess it's potentiated by the SAMe and/or the deprenyl?
Declan
Posted by KaraS on June 8, 2005, at 16:45:21
In reply to ADs+supplements, posted by Declan on June 7, 2005, at 17:57:55
> It is said that this drug has very few side effects. Some people report it being ineffective in doses up to 1g or more. If I took anything like that I'd be a writeoff. So I guess it's potentiated by the SAMe and/or the deprenyl?
>
> Declan
Must be. Of course the only way to know for sure is to try the SAME and the deprenyl separately.I'm glad it's working for you.
K
Posted by coach on June 15, 2005, at 12:02:51
In reply to Phosphatidylserine and Cortisol, posted by Sarah T. on June 6, 2005, at 1:28:10
What I have read is that PS can improve sensitivity to cortisol thus improve adrenal function. Its a feed back system. So its not that cortisol is lowered with Phos.. Serine but thats it normalized. I hear alot about lowering and raising but alot of times PS and adaptagens do more normalizing of cortisol due to improving the balnacing control of the system thus not allowing things to get to high or to low.
Posted by Sarah T. on June 15, 2005, at 18:02:06
In reply to Re: Phosphatidylserine and Cortisol » Sarah T., posted by coach on June 15, 2005, at 12:02:51
Thanks, coach.
That's very interesting.
This is the end of the thread.
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