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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by The_Resistance on April 17, 2005, at 15:07:53
Does anyone know anywere online were L-trypt can be purchased cheaply.
I generaly go to Quality Health Incorperated, but they're rather expensive.I've heard vetinary trymptophan is cheap.
Posted by sdb on April 17, 2005, at 15:46:48
In reply to Sources of L-tryptophan?, posted by The_Resistance on April 17, 2005, at 15:07:53
www.vitasprings.com
I dont know if it is the cheapest.
Posted by KaraS on April 17, 2005, at 17:16:53
In reply to Sources of L-tryptophan?, posted by The_Resistance on April 17, 2005, at 15:07:53
> Does anyone know anywere online were L-trypt can be purchased cheaply.
> I generaly go to Quality Health Incorperated, but they're rather expensive.
>
> I've heard vetinary trymptophan is cheap.
Here's the site Larry uses:http://www.buygpdirect.com/gpefeed.htm
K
Posted by ed_uk on April 17, 2005, at 19:10:10
In reply to Sources of L-tryptophan?, posted by The_Resistance on April 17, 2005, at 15:07:53
Hi!
Tryptophan is now available on the NHS without so many restrictions as previously. The brand name is Optimax- for depression.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by sdb on April 21, 2005, at 13:28:47
In reply to Sources of L-tryptophan?, posted by The_Resistance on April 17, 2005, at 15:07:53
http://www.buygpdirect.com/gpefeed.htm
This seems to be a interesting site! I have never seen such dosage/price relation. But I would be interested if the qualitiy is good.
Obviously there are not many differences between us and horses and some of "us" need same supplements in a different dosage range.
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 22, 2005, at 7:18:22
In reply to Re: Sources of L-tryptophan? - I like horses, posted by sdb on April 21, 2005, at 13:28:47
> http://www.buygpdirect.com/gpefeed.htm
>
> This seems to be a interesting site! I have never seen such dosage/price relation. But I would be interested if the qualitiy is good.
>
> Obviously there are not many differences between us and horses and some of "us" need same supplements in a different dosage range.The ultra-pure tryptophan is not completely pure because it has been blended with a bit of dextrose.....presumably to make it more pallatable to the horses. I bought a few of the other things to try them out....the cod liver oil is quite cheap, but it is also not as well distilled as human products. Maybe horses can't taste it, but I sure can. There's a product called Super Subsitute....full of herbal anti-inflammatories and anti-oxidants, at an incredible price per dose. The only down side is, it contains oat hulls (for horse pallatability). Oh, the stuff goes into my smoothies all right, but the texture is a little gritty from the oat hulls. I attempted to sift them out, but the mesh size on my best sifters was still too large.
Anyway, the ultrapure tryptophan is the real deal, and I think the other lesser- quality stuff is just truth in advertising. It probably still contains a small amount of other aminos, too (plus that every-loving dextrose....for the horses).
Lar
Posted by sdb on April 23, 2005, at 6:17:45
In reply to Re: Sources of L-tryptophan? - I like horses » sdb, posted by Larry Hoover on April 22, 2005, at 7:18:22
Hi larry
Thanks for your further information, the l-tryptophan seems to be a good deal.
Kind regards
Posted by Maxime on April 28, 2005, at 23:43:48
In reply to Sources of L-tryptophan?, posted by The_Resistance on April 17, 2005, at 15:07:53
What is the difference between L-trypophan and the tryptophan my pdoc can prescribe?
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on April 30, 2005, at 16:06:29
In reply to Re: Sources of L-tryptophan?, posted by Maxime on April 28, 2005, at 23:43:48
Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the tryptophan your doctor can prescribe and other forms of tryptophan please?
Thanks.Maxime
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 30, 2005, at 16:09:10
In reply to Re: ANYONE? Larry?, posted by Maxime on April 30, 2005, at 16:06:29
> Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the tryptophan your doctor can prescribe and other forms of tryptophan please?
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> MaximeSame stuff. The doctor will prescribe Tryptan, or something similar, which is tryptophan compressed with a binder to make caplets. I think they were caplets, not capsules.....anyway, the doctor-prescribed stuff comes in measured doses, as caps/pills. Otherwise there is no difference.
Lar
Posted by Maxime on May 1, 2005, at 14:06:24
In reply to Re: ANYONE? Larry? » Maxime, posted by Larry Hoover on April 30, 2005, at 16:09:10
Thank you.
Maxime
> > Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the tryptophan your doctor can prescribe and other forms of tryptophan please?
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Maxime
>
> Same stuff. The doctor will prescribe Tryptan, or something similar, which is tryptophan compressed with a binder to make caplets. I think they were caplets, not capsules.....anyway, the doctor-prescribed stuff comes in measured doses, as caps/pills. Otherwise there is no difference.
>
> Lar
>
Posted by Elroy on May 25, 2005, at 19:43:21
In reply to Re: Sources of L-tryptophan? - I like horses » sdb, posted by Larry Hoover on April 22, 2005, at 7:18:22
Hmmm...
Think that I recall reading somewhere that glucose, dextrose, etc. specifically aids tryptophan in crossing the BBB... Tyrosine and other aminos are much more aggressive in that regard and don't have that problem.... Also they (other aminos) tend to crowd Tryptophan out when it comes to crossing the BBB... Let's see...
http://www.bellaonline.org/articles/art18248.asp
QUOTE: Serotonin cant be PRODUCED from carbohydrates. The raw material that the brain uses to build serotonin is tryptophan, a precursor of serotonin. Since tryptophan is an amino-acid it can be only found in protein-containing foods like lean meats and diary. (Or specifically in Tryptophan supplements - Elroy) Carbohydrate-rich foods influence serotonin level in the brain by boosting blood insulin. Insulin assists tryptophan transport across the blood brain barrier causing serotonin levels to rise. END QUOTEAlso, if one has the concurrent problem of high cortisol levels, here's another reason to take your Tryptophan supplement late at night (cortisol levels - unless you are Cushing's are at their lowest between 11 PM and 1 AM or so... ):
http://www.smart-drugs.net/ias-tryptophan-article.htm
QUOTE: Tryptophan pyrrolase is a key enzyme in the normal liver tryptophan breakdown pathways. Tryptophan pyrrolase is known to be activated by at least two factors. The first is the stress hormone cortisol. Cortisol, produced by the adrenal glands, is the "state of siege" stress hormone. It is released in response to unremitting chronic stress, which we can neither fight against, nor flee from. Cortisol is known to be frequently elevated in the very conditions, such as, depression, insomnia and obesity for which tryptophan/ serotonin might be helpful. Thus, taking tryptophan while under elevated cortisol-stress conditions might supply little extra to the brain, because of cortisol’s activation of tryptophan pyrrolase. END QUOTEHaving a high cortisol problem, but being a known late night suppressor, I am definitely going to be taking my Tryp at late night!
That same link also has several other points of interest....
QUOTE: In people who are even marginally vitamin B6 deficient, tryptophan may be rapidly degraded into mildly toxic metabolites such as hydroxykynurenine, xanthurenic acid and hydroxyanthranilic acid. Thus, the brain typically receives less than 1% of ingested tryptophan.
Yet even getting its meager share of tryptophan (the only normal dietary raw material for serotonin manufacture) proves a difficult task for the brain, due to the blood brain barrier. The blood brain barrier serves as a protection to prevent toxins (and even excessive levels of nutrients which might temporally overwhelm and dysregulate brain function) from entering the brain. Serotonin by itself cannot penetrate the blood brain barrier, its precursor tryptophan can. Yet the blood brain barrier makes it hard even for brain essential nutrients to enter the brain. Nutrients must be ferried through the blood brain barrier by transport molecules, like passengers on a bus. Unfortunately for the serotonin using nerves, tryptophan must share its "transport bus" with 5 other amino acids, tyrosine, phenylalanine, valine, leucine and isoleucine. Thus, tryptophan is typically out-numbered about 8:1 in its competition to secure its transport through the blood brain barrier into the brain. END QUOTEAlso....
QUOTE: Eating a high protein diet to provide more tryptophan only worsens the problem by even more increasing the intake of the 5 competing amino acids. Ironically, the only dietary strategy that increases brain tryptophan supply is to eat a high carbohydrate diet. When large amounts of carbohydrates are eaten, the body secretes large amounts of the hormone insulin to lower the ensuing high blood sugar. The insulin also clears from the blood most of the 5 amino acids that compete with tryptophan for a ride to the brain. Tryptophan then has the "bus" all to itself, allowing more tryptophan to reach the brain. This strategy is instinctively known and practiced by many people who eat large amounts of carbohydrates like bread, cakes, pies, ice cream, chips, pizza, candy etc., especially when they are feeling depressed, stressed or anxious. The increased brain serotonin this produces lowers arousal and anxiety, promoting a (temporary) sense of well being and security. However, this strategy comes at a price, the same insulin which enhances brain serotonin also enhances the conversion of the fats, carbohydrates, and amino acids cleared from the blood into stored body fat!
Hence the carbohydrate addition/ obesity serotonin connection. END QUOTE
Obesity - serotonin connection? Could that also be enhanced by a cortisol enhancing aspect of certain SSRI medications?
Studies at the University of Colorado and Greenslopes Private Hospital in Brisbane, Australia, showed that Prozac (fluoxetine) increases both cortisol and ACTH levels.
Research at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine in Nashville, Tennessee, also documented the cortisol-boosting effects of Prozac.
Laudenslager ML, Clarke AS. Antidepressant treatment during social challenge prior to 1 year of age affects immune and endocrine responses in adult macaques. Psychiatry Res. 2000 Jul 24;95(1):25-34.
Torpy DJ et al. Diurnal effects of fluoxetine and naloxone on the human hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. Clin Exp Pharmacol Physiol. 1997 June; 24 (6):421-3
Meltzer H et al. Fluoxetine, but not tricyclic antidepressants, potentiates the 5-hydroxytryptophan-mediated increase in plasma cortisol and prolactin secretion in subjects with major depression or with obsessive compulsive disorder. Neuropsychopharmacology. 1997 Jul; 17(1):1-11.
> The ultra-pure tryptophan is not completely pure because it has been blended with a bit of dextrose.....presumably to make it more pallatable to the horses. I bought a few of the other things to try them out....the cod liver oil is quite cheap, but it is also not as well distilled as human products. Maybe horses can't taste it, but I sure can. There's a product called Super Subsitute....full of herbal anti-inflammatories and anti-oxidants, at an incredible price per dose. The only down side is, it contains oat hulls (for horse pallatability). Oh, the stuff goes into my smoothies all right, but the texture is a little gritty from the oat hulls. I attempted to sift them out, but the mesh size on my best sifters was still too large.
>
> Anyway, the ultrapure tryptophan is the real deal, and I think the other lesser- quality stuff is just truth in advertising. It probably still contains a small amount of other aminos, too (plus that every-loving dextrose....for the horses).
>
> Lar
>
>
Posted by 4WD on May 26, 2005, at 22:11:39
In reply to Re: Sources of L-tryptophan? - I like horses » sdb, posted by Larry Hoover on April 22, 2005, at 7:18:22
What would be the human dosage for tryptophan?
Marsha
> > http://www.buygpdirect.com/gpefeed.htm
> >
> > This seems to be a interesting site! I have never seen such dosage/price relation. But I would be interested if the qualitiy is good.
> >
> > Obviously there are not many differences between us and horses and some of "us" need same supplements in a different dosage range.
>
> The ultra-pure tryptophan is not completely pure because it has been blended with a bit of dextrose.....presumably to make it more pallatable to the horses. I bought a few of the other things to try them out....the cod liver oil is quite cheap, but it is also not as well distilled as human products. Maybe horses can't taste it, but I sure can. There's a product called Super Subsitute....full of herbal anti-inflammatories and anti-oxidants, at an incredible price per dose. The only down side is, it contains oat hulls (for horse pallatability). Oh, the stuff goes into my smoothies all right, but the texture is a little gritty from the oat hulls. I attempted to sift them out, but the mesh size on my best sifters was still too large.
>
> Anyway, the ultrapure tryptophan is the real deal, and I think the other lesser- quality stuff is just truth in advertising. It probably still contains a small amount of other aminos, too (plus that every-loving dextrose....for the horses).
>
> Lar
>
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 22:41:06
In reply to Re: Sources of L-tryptophan? -dosage? » Larry Hoover, posted by 4WD on May 26, 2005, at 22:11:39
> What would be the human dosage for tryptophan?
>
> MarshaFor the treatment of depression? 1-4 grams/day.
Lar
Posted by 4WD on May 26, 2005, at 22:45:53
In reply to Re: Sources of L-tryptophan? -dosage? » 4WD, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 22:41:06
> > What would be the human dosage for tryptophan?
> >
> > Marsha
>
> For the treatment of depression? 1-4 grams/day.
>
> Lar
Thanks.Marsha
Posted by Elroy on May 27, 2005, at 17:07:31
In reply to Re: Sources of L-tryptophan? -dosage? » 4WD, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 22:41:06
Same dosage levels for anxiety?
What would be a recommended supplement approach for strong anxiety? I currently take 1 mg Xanax XR twice a day (plus 20mg Ambien as a sleep aid) and this "barely keeps the lid on"....
Of course I also have the problem with highly elevated cortisol (still trying to figure out if the cortisol is causing the high anxiety or the high cortisol is being created by the severe anxiety - or if they're simply feeding off of each other at this stage).
> > What would be the human dosage for tryptophan?
> >
> > Marsha
>
> For the treatment of depression? 1-4 grams/day.
>
> Lar
Posted by 4WD on May 27, 2005, at 20:52:22
In reply to Re: Sources of L-tryptophan? -dosage? » Larry Hoover, posted by Elroy on May 27, 2005, at 17:07:31
> Same dosage levels for anxiety?
>
> What would be a recommended supplement approach for strong anxiety? I currently take 1 mg Xanax XR twice a day (plus 20mg Ambien as a sleep aid) and this "barely keeps the lid on"....
>
> Of course I also have the problem with highly elevated cortisol (still trying to figure out if the cortisol is causing the high anxiety or the high cortisol is being created by the severe anxiety - or if they're simply feeding off of each other at this stage).
>Ditto.
Marsha
>
>
> > > What would be the human dosage for tryptophan?
> > >
> > > Marsha
> >
> > For the treatment of depression? 1-4 grams/day.
> >
> > Lar
>
>
Posted by Ktemene on June 10, 2005, at 14:19:05
In reply to Re: Sources of L-tryptophan? - I like horses » sdb, posted by Larry Hoover on April 22, 2005, at 7:18:22
Hi Lar,
Thanks for the tip about tryptophan for horses. My horse has to work with a bunch of jacka**es and she was really feeling down. A little horse tryptophan has put the kick back in her.
Ktemene
> > http://www.buygpdirect.com/gpefeed.htm
> >
> > This seems to be a interesting site! I have never seen such dosage/price relation. But I would be interested if the qualitiy is good.
> >
> > Obviously there are not many differences between us and horses and some of "us" need same supplements in a different dosage range.
>
> The ultra-pure tryptophan is not completely pure because it has been blended with a bit of dextrose.....presumably to make it more pallatable to the horses. I bought a few of the other things to try them out....the cod liver oil is quite cheap, but it is also not as well distilled as human products. Maybe horses can't taste it, but I sure can. There's a product called Super Subsitute....full of herbal anti-inflammatories and anti-oxidants, at an incredible price per dose. The only down side is, it contains oat hulls (for horse pallatability). Oh, the stuff goes into my smoothies all right, but the texture is a little gritty from the oat hulls. I attempted to sift them out, but the mesh size on my best sifters was still too large.
>
> Anyway, the ultrapure tryptophan is the real deal, and I think the other lesser- quality stuff is just truth in advertising. It probably still contains a small amount of other aminos, too (plus that every-loving dextrose....for the horses).
>
> Lar
>
>
Posted by Elroy on June 10, 2005, at 16:56:01
In reply to Thanks for the horse feed » Larry Hoover, posted by Ktemene on June 10, 2005, at 14:19:05
Wonder if there's any similar sources out there in that regards? Horses and cattle supplements, veterinary supplements in general, are manufactured under pretty strict guidelines (hey, some horses are probably considered to be more "valuable" that the average consumer).
Of course, knowing LH, he has probably researched and found the "best" one....
Elroy
X
X
X
X> Hi Lar,
>
> Thanks for the tip about tryptophan for horses. My horse has to work with a bunch of jacka**es and she was really feeling down. A little horse tryptophan has put the kick back in her.
>
> Ktemene
>
>
> > > http://www.buygpdirect.com/gpefeed.htm
> > >
> > > This seems to be a interesting site! I have never seen such dosage/price relation. But I would be interested if the qualitiy is good.
> > >
> > > Obviously there are not many differences between us and horses and some of "us" need same supplements in a different dosage range.
> >
> > The ultra-pure tryptophan is not completely pure because it has been blended with a bit of dextrose.....presumably to make it more pallatable to the horses. I bought a few of the other things to try them out....the cod liver oil is quite cheap, but it is also not as well distilled as human products. Maybe horses can't taste it, but I sure can. There's a product called Super Subsitute....full of herbal anti-inflammatories and anti-oxidants, at an incredible price per dose. The only down side is, it contains oat hulls (for horse pallatability). Oh, the stuff goes into my smoothies all right, but the texture is a little gritty from the oat hulls. I attempted to sift them out, but the mesh size on my best sifters was still too large.
> >
> > Anyway, the ultrapure tryptophan is the real deal, and I think the other lesser- quality stuff is just truth in advertising. It probably still contains a small amount of other aminos, too (plus that every-loving dextrose....for the horses).
> >
> > Lar
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by limpet jones on June 12, 2005, at 15:42:13
In reply to Re: Sources of L-tryptophan? -dosage? » 4WD, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 22:41:06
Anyone have this weird sleep disturbance with tryptophan: You're in a shallow sleep and can't move but in your dream you're struggling desperately to move....? A mere 4 on the scary scale, but I'm wondering what, if anything it means neurologically.
This is the end of the thread.
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