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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Krumcake on May 13, 2005, at 15:58:52
Board: Psycho-Babble Alternative
Email: will not notify of follow-ups
Language: EnglishI have enjoyed reading all of your entries from over the past few months, and am hoping that someone here can offer me some much needed advice. My husband is on Zoloft, Keppra, Seroquel and most recently Lamictal to address a mix of depression, bi-polar II and ADD type symptoms (the jury is still out on his exact diagnosis!?) Over the past few years, we have been though medical He## with symptoms including: Severe Right upper quadrant pain of an unidentified nature. He can barely eat, sleep function - from the pain. His food often comes through totally undigested and his has spasming in what might be considered to be the liver, small intestinal area. He has had the million dollar medical work up and to date, we know little more than we did when we started - though he is now without a Gallbladder and Appendix! Of course, his labs always come back "normal" with occasional fluctuations of liver enzymes. Nothing seems to account for this pain! He did have Lyme Disease 12 yrs ago (and what a can of worms that is). Assuming this problem is functional, and pertaining to the digestive system, I have started studying the enteric endocrine/nervous system in a desparate attempt to understand what might be going on here. One of the Doc's recently suggested that due to the complexity of the Enteric Nervous System, his Psych Meds might be suspect for the cause of this pain. Has anyone had any severe digestive disturbances of this or a similar nature as a result of various psych meds? I'll await any feed back - we are feeling very desparate and alone. Many Thanks!
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 15, 2005, at 11:47:12
In reply to HELP! Enteric endocrine problems from psych meds?, posted by Krumcake on May 13, 2005, at 15:58:52
>His food often comes through totally undigested and his has spasming in what might be considered to be the liver, small intestinal area.Can you expand on this idea? In what way is his food undigested? Is the spasmic activity relieved (temporarily) by a bowel movement, but then it returns a short time later?
Have you tried enzyme supplements? Digestion requires enzymes. Period.
There are prescription enzyme replacements, but the best product I've ever discovered is Kirkman Laboratories Enzym-Complete/DPP-IV www.kirkmanlabs.com
> He has had the million dollar medical work up and to date, we know little more than we did when we started - though he is now without a Gallbladder and Appendix!
Automatic surgical behaviour. They think we don't need these organs, but I'm not so certain. At least we can rule them out, now. Unfortunately, we might be ruling out some of the enzymes supplied in bile.
> Of course, his labs always come back "normal" with occasional fluctuations of liver enzymes. Nothing seems to account for this pain!
You don't say where in the world you are. That might have some bearing on recommendations. For example, the enteric anti-spasmodic called Dicetel (pinaverium bromide) is not available in the States, but I get it in Canada. It is my special treatment for acute effects. I try to manage my triggers, but sometimes errrr sh*t happens.
Speaking of triggers, have you tried elimination diets? No gluten, or no dairy?
> He did have Lyme Disease 12 yrs ago (and what a can of worms that is).
Then he had massive antibiotic treatments, for an extended period, right? He could have a total disturbance in intestinal biota, the little critters that actually do 80% of your digestion for you.
You ought to try probiotic treatments, which are essentially the recolonization of his bowel with health-promoting organisms. Again, I recommend Kirkman Labs Pro-Bio Gold.
The other thing about Lyme's Disease is that some people *never* get rid of it. It can be chronic, despite the best treatment. Still, I think your hubby needs to focus on getting his gut back in shape.
> Assuming this problem is functional, and pertaining to the digestive system, I have started studying the enteric endocrine/nervous system in a desparate attempt to understand what might be going on here. One of the Doc's recently suggested that due to the complexity of the Enteric Nervous System, his Psych Meds might be suspect for the cause of this pain. Has anyone had any severe digestive disturbances of this or a similar nature as a result of various psych meds? I'll await any feed back - we are feeling very desparate and alone. Many Thanks!
It could be psych meds, or he could be having psych symptoms because of his bowel disorder. There is no clear line that says "this is causing that". It could be a vicious circle.
There are also some new serotonin-targetting bowel drugs. There are unique serotonin receptors in the gut which control peristalsis, the supposedly rhythmic and controlled contraction of the enteric smooth muscle, that propels food from the stomach to the anus.
Lots of things to consider, but it's hard to know which ones are most appropriate to try first.
Best of luck. You may have to become experts on self-treatment, to learn how to manage this. Doctors don't always know what they're doing.
Lar
Posted by Krumcake on May 16, 2005, at 14:36:37
In reply to Re: HELP! Enteric endocrine problems from psych meds?, posted by Larry Hoover on May 15, 2005, at 11:47:12
>
> Thanks so much for all of your input Larry, after reading some of your other posts, I was hoping you'd chime in :)To answer your questions:
When he eats any raw vegetables, they come through looking like you chewed them up, and that's it! His pain is not temporarily relieved by bowel movements, or really by anything! He in in constant pain (about a 7 on a scale of 1-10) all the time. Now, several things could bump that number up to an 8 or 9, like eating, physical activity or stress.We have tried different enzyme supplements, with no relief, but then, we found the best of all supplements an organic hemp protein shake, whose ingredients included, probiotics, omegas 3-6, enzymes, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. It was called Shape Shift from Living Harvest. Keith used this product for 3 months, and experienced total remission of symptoms! Then, they discontinued that product. AAAAHHHHGGGGHHHHH!!!
I am in the process now, of trying to find out how to duplicate the effects of that product by combining several different products - and well, (thousands of dollars later), hopefully, I'll find the right combo.
> Automatic surgical behaviour - yes indeed! And I absolutely agree with the idea that his entire gut, including flora, enzymes, amino acids, and as a result of all of the former, now even the hormones that regulate everything are all out of whack.The Doctors naturally don't lend any validity to any of this and have not done testing for it - because by now, they think we are just nutz.
This is what has led me to alternative options. Thank you for the recommendation of the Kirkmann products, we will give them a try.
We have tried elimination diets, with not much improvement (he aviods dairy anyway) - the gluten issue is soooo hard to accomplish, but we are willing to give it another run.
Psych meds are still suspect, and eventually, we would like to see those go too, but like you said, chicken or the egg?
Thank you so much for your input, I really appreciate it. It's so great to have someone to bounce stuff off of - besides my husband, who is sick of hearing me talk about Cholecystokinin and Gastric Inhibitory Peptide! :)
We now have another issue regarding pain pill addiction that is surfacing because of all this. I'll have to post that all later, but a quick question... If someone fits the criteria for "over-methylation" - should they maybe not be perscribed methadone? Or are the two totally unrelated? Again, THANKS!
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 17, 2005, at 7:29:45
In reply to Re: HELP! Enteric endocrine problems from psych m, posted by Krumcake on May 16, 2005, at 14:36:37
> >
> > Thanks so much for all of your input Larry, after reading some of your other posts, I was hoping you'd chime in :)You're welcome.
> To answer your questions:
> When he eats any raw vegetables, they come through looking like you chewed them up, and that's it! His pain is not temporarily relieved by bowel movements, or really by anything! He in in constant pain (about a 7 on a scale of 1-10) all the time. Now, several things could bump that number up to an 8 or 9, like eating, physical activity or stress.Has he had biopsies?
> We have tried different enzyme supplements, with no relief, but then, we found the best of all supplements an organic hemp protein shake, whose ingredients included, probiotics, omegas 3-6, enzymes, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. It was called Shape Shift from Living Harvest. Keith used this product for 3 months, and experienced total remission of symptoms! Then, they discontinued that product. AAAAHHHHGGGGHHHHH!!!
That totally blows.
> I am in the process now, of trying to find out how to duplicate the effects of that product by combining several different products - and well, (thousands of dollars later), hopefully, I'll find the right combo.
Thousands of dollars?!? Wowsers. The stuff doesn't seem too complicated.
"ShapeShift (TM) is a Complete, Low-Carb, Vegan food combination containing the finest Raw, Organic ingredients. A whole food meal that is extraordinarily Balanced with all Essential Amino Acids, Essential Fatty Acids, Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics, Enzymes and Anti-oxidants. The Ultimate Meal Replacement providing true nutrition AND true convenience.
Ingredients: Hemp Protein*, Dried (Carrots*, Broccoli*, Spinach*, Beets*, Zucchini*, Asparagus*, Black Radish*, Parsley*, Celery*, Orange* and Lemon*), Proprietary Enzyme Blend, Hydrilla Rooting Algae, Chicory Root Oligofructose, Fennel seed *. Gluten Free.
* Organic Ingredients "The base material is their own hemp seed protein meal. They've added some dehydrated vegetable flakes or powders (all of which can be obtained.....see below), some of their enzyme blend (sold on the same page as the hemp), some Hydrilla (what that is in there for, I have no idea.....but it's not an algae. It's an aquarium plant that is clogging lakes and rivers everywhere, as an exotic alien plant.) Chicory root and fennel are easy to find.
There are no exotic ingredients (ones that are hard to locate). It just depends on how they are proportioned into the mix. Note the veggies are not alphabetical. That's because they're in mass sequence, more added to less added. How much is going to be a guess, but the ingredients are not that hard to find.
I did a quick google on dried vegetable powder, and I came up with these American sources. (There are many overseas sources):
http://www.bulkfoods.com/cooking.asp#Dried%20Vegetables
http://www.myspicer.com/index.html?/Data_Returns/listbytype.php?id=2&tname=Dried%20Vegetables
http://www.barryfarm.com/veggies.htm
http://www.morningsidefarm.com/catalog/catpg73.shtmlAnd, if you're ready to get an ingredient at any price (this is an expensive source):
http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/CTGY/23049Because the law requires all ingredients be listed, there are no other things in that hemp smoothie mix. I think you can come up with your own. Moreover, as the product is now withdrawn from market, you *may* be able to prevail upon the folks at Living Harvest to tell you how much of each ingredient they used.
There's a totally different angle to consider, too. The lack of digestion may indicate achlorhydria (no stomach acid), or hypochlorhydria (low stomach acid). With persistent digestive complaints, that also contributes to general malnutrition, also associated with those low acid conditions. A classic vicious circle.
The treatment involves betaine hydrochloride, the pineapple enzyme bromelain, and vitamin B12 megadoses. It's possible that the beet powder in the hemp mix had a good amount of betaine in it (that's where the name came from; beet is beta in latin). I see down below you are thinking of over-methylation. Low stomach acid is an under-methylation problem. Betaine is a methyl donor. So is the B-12. And, I'm presuming there is intake of other nutrients, as from a multi-vitamin/mineral supplement.
> > Automatic surgical behaviour - yes indeed! And I absolutely agree with the idea that his entire gut, including flora, enzymes, amino acids, and as a result of all of the former, now even the hormones that regulate everything are all out of whack.
>
> The Doctors naturally don't lend any validity to any of this and have not done testing for it - because by now, they think we are just nutz.Unfortunately, some fall through the cracks. That's how I landed in alternative land.
> This is what has led me to alternative options. Thank you for the recommendation of the Kirkmann products, we will give them a try.
I find their attitude and performance to be of refreshingly and exemplary high quality.
> We have tried elimination diets, with not much improvement (he aviods dairy anyway) - the gluten issue is soooo hard to accomplish, but we are willing to give it another run.
Given the success of the hemp shake thing, I'd be working on that angle the hardest.
> Psych meds are still suspect, and eventually, we would like to see those go too, but like you said, chicken or the egg?Indeed. I have some pretty disabling bowel problems. I find, though, that when my general psych condition declines, my vulnerability to the bowel stuff increases. I'm simply and generally more vulnerable. As my resiliency increases, it becomes easier for me to simply forget to control my bowel triggers. They tend to co-vary, but they do not have the same management procedures.
> Thank you so much for your input, I really appreciate it. It's so great to have someone to bounce stuff off of - besides my husband, who is sick of hearing me talk about Cholecystokinin and Gastric Inhibitory Peptide! :)Oh, but you say those with such authority. And, the way they roll of your tongue. ;-)
> We now have another issue regarding pain pill addiction that is surfacing because of all this.Addiction, or tolerance? Not the same thing.
There are things you can do to manage that, too. I have to get to work, but I wanted to post this to you, first.
> I'll have to post that all later, but a quick question... If someone fits the criteria for "over-methylation" - should they maybe not be perscribed methadone? Or are the two totally unrelated? Again, THANKS!
Unrelated in any way that I can think of. That's the "off the top of my head" answer. I will verify later.
Best,
Lar
Posted by Krumcake on May 18, 2005, at 1:11:43
In reply to Re: HELP! Enteric endocrine problems from psych m » Krumcake, posted by Larry Hoover on May 17, 2005, at 7:29:45
Thanks so much for all the info. I think that I am just getting so frustrated with our docs, that everything is overwhelming me and the prospect of trying to put together a hemp shake on our own seemed daunting. Since you went through the ingredients (which I did also, but somehow it wasn't registering...duh:), I see now that it won't be so hard to put that product together. I went to the Natural Market today for a 20% off sale (woo-hoo) and filled up with Probiotics, a greens-n-protein shake mix and some flax oil... We're going to make due with those until the shipment from Living Harvest comes in. I'm also giving him Super Milk Thistle, and vit c and B-6 to help the amino acids absorb.
We were at the Psychiatrist yesterday, filling him in on all this and he offered this helpful suggestion: "well, here's an idea - let's try upping the Seroquel" - - whatever. Ah, sorry buddy, we're thinking of dropping the Seroquel not upping it! That was just a med that he was put on while going through detox in January....trying to get off the vicodin he's been on all year...while the docs tried (-i guess?) to peice this thing together!!!!! You know, on second thought, I think we should up the Seroquel because by the time this thing is all over - I'M gonna need it to keep me from going postal on these doctors.
(me...doing some deep breathing...)
He's had biopsies, all normal. Here's what I'm thinking...if you have a moment(or ten)please tell me if any of this makes sense.
1. He's been a MAJOR Ant-Acid user for upwards of 12 years now. The man always had heart burn. Well, after (recently) doing the vinegar test, and the heart burn promply STOPPED - we started wondering if maybe he's got under production rather than over.
Well, after all those years of Antacid use, might the acid in the tummy be to low to stimilate Secretin, as a result - Secretin to low to stimulate a bi-carb dump from the Pancreas, as a result, the contents travel down the rest of the tract with a non-neutral ph, resulting in possible acid burns which after time, might get so irritated as to induce motility problems? Not to mention, making the environment inhospitable for the normal realease of other secretions, hormones, etc...
2. Before he had his Gallbladder taken, they did a spinctography (sp) and found malfunction, but after they took the organ, they said it looked perfectly fine. Suspect=Cholecystokinin, lack of.
Side note: It's apparently common for those with schiz. or anxiety to have "abberated" expression of CCK.3. He has Narcoleptic calibur urges to sleep immediately after eating and NEVER has any energy otherwise. Suspect=Ghrelin.
4. Never before a sweet tooth, now practically breaking into the bakery at night - his sugar cravings are unprecidented. Suspect=Gastric Inhibitory Peptide
That one's a stretch, but my theory is that if the Enteric Nervous System is constantly "tasting" the
lumenal environment and interpreting them as acidic (of course not knowing about the overuse of ant-acids thus inhibiting Secretin) might it employ sugar cravings to stimulate the release of GIP?
There's so much more, I could go on all year, but why? I've brought these ideas up, but the doc's look at me like I'm just some stay at home mom who has too much spare time on her hands. They say, well er, we don't feel that uh- hmmm, well, no, no, that testing wouldn't be...here, try some famotidine! Don't call me in the morning.Lar, if I may impose - what do you think?
Posted by Krumcake on May 18, 2005, at 1:25:13
In reply to Re: HELP! Enteric endocrine problems from psych m » Krumcake, posted by Larry Hoover on May 17, 2005, at 7:29:45
P.S. I wanted to say too, achyorhydria & hypo ach- are two things I absolutely want to look into. Are there tests for these? To my knowledge he's never had a 24 hr pH monitor done. Should I even bother bringing these up with the docs or will they just start staring and drooling? Thanks!
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2005, at 11:13:45
In reply to Re: HELP! Enteric endocrine problems from psych m, posted by Krumcake on May 18, 2005, at 1:25:13
> P.S. I wanted to say too, achyorhydria & hypo ach- are two things I absolutely want to look into. Are there tests for these? To my knowledge he's never had a 24 hr pH monitor done. Should I even bother bringing these up with the docs or will they just start staring and drooling? Thanks!
Achlorhydria and/or hypochlorhydria are best assessed with a special probe. A pH sensitive electrode is placed in the stomach (usually via an endoscope), and left there to discover the pattern of acid level before during and after meals, overnight, and all that.
Alternatively, they use a naso-gastric tube (usually used for feeding), and use suction to draw stomach fluid out for analysis.
Although minor procedures, I think they are both usually done in an inpatient setting.
I think I've read about a portable monitor, though. They insert the electrode, and then you go home with a little belt-pack monitor, which records the pH over time.
http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic18.htm#target1
What is really bizarre is that this article does not overtly look at one obvious factor. Pernicious anemia is a cause of achlorhydria, and achlorhydria causes pernicious anemia. Also, long-term use of a proton-pump inhibitor (PPI, e.g. Nexium) causes the same problems.
Proving he has achlorhydria is one thing. Treatment is quite another. You don't need proof to start treatment. Vitamin B12 is a major part of the treatment. Although the RDA is something like 6 micrograms/day, the treatment here is 1 mg (1000 mcg)/day.
Betaine hydrochloride can help restore an acid environment. Taken just at the beginning of a meal, it not only contributes hydrochloric acid, it also supplies betaine, an alternative methyl source to the B12.
I also recommend bromelain. It's an enzyme found in pineapples. It helps control the inflammation associated with achlorhydria.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2005, at 12:41:22
In reply to Re: HELP! Enteric endocrine problems from psych m, posted by Krumcake on May 18, 2005, at 1:11:43
> Thanks so much for all the info.
You're welcome.
> I think that I am just getting so frustrated with our docs, that everything is overwhelming me and the prospect of trying to put together a hemp shake on our own seemed daunting. Since you went through the ingredients (which I did also, but somehow it wasn't registering...duh:), I see now that it won't be so hard to put that product together.
I could sense your frustration. I hope you don't mind that I "took you by the hand". Actually, after seeing how easy it is to obtain some of those powders, I'm going to get some to add to my "nutrient smoothies". Why not?
> I went to the Natural Market today for a 20% off sale (woo-hoo) and filled up with Probiotics, a greens-n-protein shake mix and some flax oil... We're going to make due with those until the shipment from Living Harvest comes in. I'm also giving him Super Milk Thistle, and vit c and B-6 to help the amino acids absorb.
You're using a multi, plus those extras, I hope? Supplementing with single nutrients can cause problems. B6 is great, but it adds nutrient stress on the other B-vitamins, that work with it. If you don't supply those others, too, you can induce functional deficiencies. That's why B's are sold as B-complex.
> We were at the Psychiatrist yesterday, filling him in on all this and he offered this helpful suggestion: "well, here's an idea - let's try upping the Seroquel" - - whatever. Ah, sorry buddy, we're thinking of dropping the Seroquel not upping it! That was just a med that he was put on while going through detox in January....trying to get off the vicodin he's been on all year...while the docs tried (-i guess?) to peice this thing together!!!!! You know, on second thought, I think we should up the Seroquel because by the time this thing is all over - I'M gonna need it to keep me from going postal on these doctors.
It's most difficult now because he is unstable. How can you figure out what will work, when you have a moving target?
> (me...doing some deep breathing...)That's GOOD. :-)
> He's had biopsies, all normal. Here's what I'm thinking...if you have a moment(or ten)please tell me if any of this makes sense.
>
> 1. He's been a MAJOR Ant-Acid user for upwards of 12 years now. The man always had heart burn. Well, after (recently) doing the vinegar test, and the heart burn promply STOPPED - we started wondering if maybe he's got under production rather than over.The symptoms of under-production of acid and over-production are identical, yet standard "treatment" is to assume overproduction.
Heartburn can be caused by improper timing of the release of stomach acid. Rather than being released immediately on being presented with food, the acid release is delayed, and it ends up not being mixed with the food. It lays on top, creating a local region of very high acidity, while the bulk of the food itself is not properly acidified. The high-acid layer of food is decomposed, releasing gases which encourage belching. Acid vapour and digestive liquids rise into the throat, and you get heartburn. The same vapours also contribute to asthma.
Some of the food gets overdigested, while most is completely underdigested.
I used to have bottles of Maalox everywhere. In my car. In my knapsack. In my wife's purse. At work. All over the house. I took omeprazole (Prilosec or Losec, in different countries).
I used to have GERD anyway. I took part in the clinical study for Nexium. I knew that I was in the treatment arm, because I knew if I took a drug or placebo. There was no friggin doubt. I was in the treatment arm.
Then I started looking at the signalling cascade, just as you have done. I commend you for doing so. It is incredibly complicated.
I wish I took notes as I did so, but I saw the sun come up on my efforts one night (at it past dawn), as I tracked the signalling cascade.
I concluded that the drugs I was taking *for* heartburn (PPI and antacids) were *causing* heartburn, and worse. I had iatrogenic (doctor-caused) vitamin B12 deficiency. I had iatrogenic GERD (all the treatments over the years actually escalated my symptoms). The treatment was making me sick, and keeping me that way.
I can't tell you how it works (I didn't take any darn notes), but I came to the conclusion that B12, betaine, and bromelain would turn it all around. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) too, but I already took that. And magnesium, but again, I already took that. (Zinc and selenium are part as well, but again, I already took those.)
Deficiencies in B12, betaine, magnesium, and ascorbic acid, break the signalling cascade. Bromelain independently helps, both as a proteolytic enzyme, and as a digestive tract anti-inflammatory.
When the signalling cascade fails, digestion fails. When digestion fails, you fall into malnutrition. Malnutrition breaks the signalling cascade. It's a circle.
Like I said, I was the poster boy for heartburn. I was in the clinical trial for Nexium. I could not be six hours late with my Prilosec (fore-runner to Nexium), or I suffered. After figuring out the supplements, I did the experiment. 1000 mcg B12/day. Upped my magnesium to 600 mg/day. 1,000 mg TMG. Plus bromelain at each meal. And turmeric once a day (anti-inflammatory). (In addition to my regular nutrient intake).
I did not ever take Prilosec again, within two weeks of beginning the supplement protocol. I don't need it any more. (I gave a nine-month supply away. Believe me, it took me a long time to have faith enough to do that. GERD had almost become part of who I was.) I stopped "needing" the Maalox within two days, and gradually eliminated it altogether. I do occasionally get an upset stomach, but my chronic heartburn is gone. They told me I needed surgery, which *might* help the GERD. I needed vitamins.
Now, about betaine. I used the freebase (betaine hydrochloride, also known as trimethylglycine (TMG)). Also known as anhydrous betaine.
You'll see recommendations by some people to use betaine hydrochloride for low stomach acid. That may be a coincidence. It does provide hydrochloric acid, directly releasing some into the stomach as it dissolves (you must be very careful not to let it dissolve on the way down the throat). But, it supplies betaine too. I think it's the betaine that really helps. I didn't ever use betaine hydrochloride. Anhydrous betaine itself worked for me. TMG or anhydrous betaine readily dissolves in water, and has a mildly sweet flavour.
Your body may vary.
> Well, after all those years of Antacid use, might the acid in the tummy be to low to stimilate Secretin, as a result - Secretin to low to stimulate a bi-carb dump from the Pancreas, as a result, the contents travel down the rest of the tract with a non-neutral ph, resulting in possible acid burns which after time, might get so irritated as to induce motility problems?I've never looked at the bicarb pump regulation.
I've always assumed the motility disturbances were from chronic functional malnutrition. Complicated by overgrowth of little critters that fermented the stuff that didn't digest in the stomach. Their excretions are irritants.
> Not to mention, making the environment inhospitable for the normal realease of other secretions, hormones, etc...
That's one of the reasons I like adding in enzymes. Can't hurt, might help. Hormones stabilize when you get the digestion part balanced out.
Bromelain is proteolytic, and survives digestion. It also has some anti-inflammatory properties.
> 2. Before he had his Gallbladder taken, they did a spinctography (sp) and found malfunction, but after they took the organ, they said it looked perfectly fine. Suspect=Cholecystokinin, lack of.
> Side note: It's apparently common for those with schiz. or anxiety to have "abberated" expression of CCK.I can't make sense of that word you used, "spinctography". Did they do a gallbladder scan, to check his response to CCK?
Why would they remove a normal organ?
> 3. He has Narcoleptic calibur urges to sleep immediately after eating and NEVER has any energy otherwise. Suspect=Ghrelin.
That's one possibility. Another is reactive hypoglycemia. Have you tried avoiding high glycemic index foods?
> 4. Never before a sweet tooth, now practically breaking into the bakery at night - his sugar cravings are unprecidented. Suspect=Gastric Inhibitory PeptideWhy do you connect that to sugar?
Has he had a glucose tolerance test?
> That one's a stretch, but my theory is that if the Enteric Nervous System is constantly "tasting" the
> lumenal environment and interpreting them as acidic (of course not knowing about the overuse of ant-acids thus inhibiting Secretin) might it employ sugar cravings to stimulate the release of GIP?I'm doubtful that the lumen becomes acidified. The whole point of antacids is to neutralize acid in the gastric environment, predisposing the duodenum to complete the task already begun. The chyme in the enteric environment ought not to be acidic. Especially so if achlorhydria/hypochlorhydria, complicated by antacid use, is the underlying dysfunction.
> There's so much more, I could go on all year, but why? I've brought these ideas up, but the doc's look at me like I'm just some stay at home mom who has too much spare time on her hands. They say, well er, we don't feel that uh- hmmm, well, no, no, that testing wouldn't be...here, try some famotidine! Don't call me in the morning.That is quite the opposite to what is required. Pepcid is the wrong tactic.
I'm sorry that you don't get good discussions going with the doctors. Being unable to pronounce the words as they do, mis-spellings (there are some in your post).....they don't contribute towards what you're looking to get.
The other thing is, doctors are not taught anything about these things. Seriously. You're over their heads, unless you're dealing with an internist who specializes in digestive tract issues.
> Lar, if I may impose - what do you think?Well, food for thought.
We'll see where this takes us, soon enough.
Lar
This is the end of the thread.
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