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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 108. Go back in thread:
Posted by Racer on April 22, 2007, at 22:35:06
In reply to Re: Well, posted by Phillipa on April 22, 2007, at 21:07:00
> Nobody asked but this just reenforces my suspicions that babble will soon be a thing of the past.
When I first came to Babble, Bob interacted much more with posters. These days, he stays out of it, except for administrative duties. His presence or absence on the boards really isn't the point, is it? The point is the support and education we provide for one another. That's what Babble is about.
Babble won't end, just because Bob is away for a few weeks. In fact, Babble wouldn't necessarily end if Bob decided to hand it off entirely to someone else. This is a peer support board, not a cult of personality.
Posted by Phillipa on April 22, 2007, at 23:01:33
In reply to I think this is premature » Phillipa, posted by Racer on April 22, 2007, at 22:35:06
Racer not so sure anymore it has changed. The people I e-mail don't come here because of that. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 22, 2007, at 23:02:50
In reply to I think this is premature » Phillipa, posted by Racer on April 22, 2007, at 22:35:06
Oh this is my last response to any admin threads . I don't like it on this board too scarey. Love Phillipa
Posted by fayeroe on April 22, 2007, at 23:16:52
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by Quintal on April 22, 2007, at 22:02:44
> > ...when all the deputies go on break or quit? How many insults are they expected to tolerate before their own mental health suffers? Clearly that is already happening.
> >
> > Personally, for their sake, I DO hope they all quit. Of course, I don't give a flip about Babble - except that it helps some of my friends. I worry about what would happen to them if Babble disappeared due to an Admin who wants out, and deputies who give up.
> >
> > Emmy
>
>
> After some thought I decided to post on this thread afterall. I'd like to clarify that the motive behind my 'If I Had a Hammer' thread above was not an oblique attack on the deputies and their supporters, it was to raise awareness of the possibility that *we all, right now* may be the unwitting participants of a virtual/online version of the Stanford Prison/Milgram experiments. If so, what I *was* obliquely referring to was that it might be high time to blow the whistle and end the experiment? It's patently clear that people are now getting hurt and emotionally traumatized by the experience (many who were vulnerable and emotionally frail to begin with I might add), and I think it's time to end it.i understood exactly what you were saying, Quintal................pat
>
> Q
Posted by notfred on April 22, 2007, at 23:49:27
In reply to I think this is premature » Phillipa, posted by Racer on April 22, 2007, at 22:35:06
"Babble won't end, just because Bob is away for a few weeks. In fact, Babble wouldn't necessarily end if Bob decided to hand it off entirely to someone else. This is a peer support board, not a cult of personality."
Right. I am on lists that have existed since the 1980's, where ownership and/or moderation has been passed through many different people. On one list we lost both the hosting server and the list owner, when the college could no longer offer hosting and the owner did not have enough time to continue. So the list members bought the domain
and found another org to host it.
Posted by Quintal on April 23, 2007, at 2:44:24
In reply to Re: I think this is premature, posted by notfred on April 22, 2007, at 23:49:27
I think the problem isn't so much one of a personality cult, rather that Dr. Bob still holds authority as chief administrator and supervisor of the deputies. I assumed (possibly wrongly) that wherever he is in the world a professional of his status would very likely still have access to internet and email in this day and age, and that he would have checked and responded to it by now given the level of distress many babblers and deputies have suffered.
I agree completely that the site will survive without Dr. Bob, but while we are still trying to operate under his rules and his authority I think we could use a little impartial guidance right now to ease the confusion.
Q
Posted by Jai Narayan on April 23, 2007, at 7:35:13
In reply to Re: I think this is premature, posted by notfred on April 22, 2007, at 23:49:27
> "Babble won't end, just because Bob is away for a few weeks. In fact, Babble wouldn't necessarily end if Bob decided to hand it off entirely to someone else. This is a peer support board, not a cult of personality."
>
>
> Right. I am on lists that have existed since the 1980's, where ownership and/or moderation has been passed through many different people. On one list we lost both the hosting server and the list owner, when the college could no longer offer hosting and the owner did not have enough time to continue. So the list members bought the domain
> and found another org to host it.
>
Your post gives me hope and a sense of resilience. I come back to PB every-so-often because the people are interesting and sincere. I'm sorry there is conflict but conflict seems to ebb and flow in life. I think being a deputy would be a hard job. My hat's off to anyone who has this position.
Jai Narayan
Posted by zazenducke on April 23, 2007, at 8:24:00
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by Quintal on April 22, 2007, at 22:02:44
> >
>
> After some thought I decided to post on this thread afterall. I'd like to clarify that the motive behind my 'If I Had a Hammer' thread above was not an oblique attack on the deputies and their supporters, it was to raise awareness of the possibility that *we all, right now* may be the unwitting participants of a virtual/online version of the Stanford Prison/Milgram experiments. If so, what I *was* obliquely referring to was that it might be high time to blow the whistle and end the experiment? It's patently clear that people are now getting hurt and emotionally traumatized by the experience (many who were vulnerable and emotionally frail to begin with I might add), and I think it's time to end it.
>
>I understand your point.
Of course it would not be ethical.
I agree.
Posted by NikkiT2 on April 23, 2007, at 12:52:03
In reply to Re: Well, posted by Phillipa on April 22, 2007, at 21:07:00
Phillipa,
Seriously. Dr Bob not being around for a couple of weeks does not mean babble is ending.
I've had a couple of emails today off babblers ho are *really* upset by reading this and wanted my opinion.
Can I ask, respectfully, that you stop posting that you think babble is about to close or that dr bob is never returning? As the fears are, currently, appear completely unfounded.
Nikki
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 23, 2007, at 13:26:14
In reply to (((((((Dinah))))))), posted by Bobby on April 22, 2007, at 16:16:03
Dinah, it *hurts* to see some of the things you've been accused of and \the statements made to you. At times reading them I've felt I've been punched in the stomach, they just seemed so uncalled for and inexcusably ... low.
If I thought it would make a difference I'd point out posts that prove you are unbiased. I've been P.B.C'd by you more than once, and twice it was because I was in my own rather blinded way defending you : )
I've admired your objectivity, empathy straightforwardness and appreciation of diversity since I've known you, they are qualities that I think shine in you--the reasons I noticed you, and wanted to get to know you, not something I claim to see now because I'm part of some nebulous "In group" It seems impossible to me that they are qualities not seen as clearly to everyone else.
I've mentioned you in particular because I've known you the longest, but all the deputies I think do a fair and fine job, and GG I know is always examining and re examing her actions that's not the behaviour of someone on a power trip.
Never have I seen it as some sort of perverse power trip. A few P.B.C's and a very few blocks, a power trip? Really? That idea actually seems kind of funny to me. It's like what? you get all puffed up over managing to beat your quota of P.B.Cs...
"Well I sure showed *that* screename A P.B.C and a "Please Be Sensitive" she won't be messing with the likes of me again" *Shine badge*Makes me tilt my head to the side like a dog that heard a weird noise.
I can't say anything else because I've not been wording things well lately.
But To all the deputies, it seems at times you're not seen as people at all, especially not as people who cope with the same struggles and illness and insecurities that the rest of us do. I'm so sorry for the pain and bewilderment you must so often have felt.
I know I've felt it on your behalf many times
Posted by karen_kay on April 23, 2007, at 15:01:35
In reply to Thank you, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2007, at 20:40:23
dinah sweetheart,
gabbi said it all for me. (and so much better too. how does she do it?)
you're so very wonderful.
thankless job be damned! i'm happy you're here, doing it. babbleland is a better place with you here. and i don't see how you are able to be so patient. see how you're my mentor?
many of those fake hugs ((((((((((((((dinah)))))))))) but, they are so very sincere (and you'd smell my stinky armpits if i were giving you one. i might even be tempted to pinch your butt. would that be ok? even jsut once?)
take care of your wonderful self. and you are always so apt at handling this pressure cooker i like to call babble.
again, that stupidmax is getting to me and am fidning myself not nearly as clever as i thought i once was, so i'll jsut say, i adore you dinah. no miscommunication there!
kk
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 23, 2007, at 15:34:30
In reply to Re: I think this is premature » Racer, posted by Phillipa on April 22, 2007, at 23:01:33
Phillipa people have always said this board has "changed" it's different now, it's not as good now.. and when I look back at the very beginning of Babble, when I wasn't a member, I can see that at the outset it was significantly different and I envy those early members for what they had.
After that early period though, as more joined of course there have been changes, ups and downs because it's not a "BOARD" it's people, and anything made up of people is going to change
There have always been those people (not just the ones who email you) who've said that they are leaving because of this and that, and some do, and some are having a bad time and need a break and end up coming back even years later.. some never do, it's just the way it works.. it's life, people have been predicting the end of babble for as long as I've been here, It's unsettling for those who depend on babble to hear those things, spare a thought for them okay?
Posted by gardenergirl on April 23, 2007, at 16:39:49
In reply to (((((((Dinah))))))) Deputies, posted by Gabbi-2 on April 23, 2007, at 13:26:14
Posted by gardenergirl on April 23, 2007, at 16:43:10
In reply to Re: Thanks for the opening--I am taking a leave, posted by TexasChic on April 22, 2007, at 20:40:26
Posted by gardenergirl on April 23, 2007, at 16:44:55
In reply to Thank you, gg » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2007, at 20:49:08
I'm not going anywhere, and I like you too much to not chat with you. :)
Thanks for being a friend and a huge source of support.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on April 23, 2007, at 16:46:33
In reply to Re: Well, posted by Phillipa on April 22, 2007, at 21:07:00
Babble's going to be fine, Phillipa. Thanks for saying you'll miss me. I'm still around via babblemail or email, remember. :)
gg
Posted by Phillipa on April 23, 2007, at 18:45:04
In reply to Re: Well » Phillipa, posted by gardenergirl on April 23, 2007, at 16:46:33
GG sure will. Love Phillipa to a special person
Posted by Scratchpad on April 23, 2007, at 19:52:21
In reply to Thanks for the opening--I am taking a leave, posted by gardenergirl on April 22, 2007, at 17:29:58
Thank you for always being there for me!
sp
Posted by Scratchpad on April 23, 2007, at 19:56:05
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble... » tofuemmy, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2007, at 13:22:04
I've always thought that you are the ultimate role model of a deputy. You were certainly my inspiration for wanting to be one - I had hoped that I could have made an ongoing and objective contribution to babble by being one.
I thank you for all the hard work that you do here.
sp
Posted by Scratchpad on April 23, 2007, at 20:09:03
In reply to (((((((Dinah))))))) Deputies, posted by Gabbi-2 on April 23, 2007, at 13:26:14
>
> But To all the deputies, it seems at times you're not seen as people at all, especially not as people who cope with the same struggles and illness and insecurities that the rest of us do. I'm so sorry for the pain and bewilderment you must so often have felt.
>This is exactly why I decided I couldn't perform as a deputy.
I got so sad reading this thread.sp
Posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 20:14:32
In reply to Re: Deputies » Gabbi-2, posted by Scratchpad on April 23, 2007, at 20:09:03
Does suggesting that a particular person is ill qualified for a particular task imply that person is not human?
Does suggesting that a person has been recruited to perform a task that might injure that person or others imply the person performing the task is not human?
Posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 20:57:53
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble... » tofuemmy, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2007, at 13:22:04
>>> And I do want to give up.
Tell us more about that.
>>> I really don't understand how people can believe the things they're saying, when if what they were saying was true, how could the administrative board looks like it does right now?Are you saying those people are not understandable, that you are unable to understand those people or that for some reason you have not asserted the will to understand those people? Are you suggesting with the phrase "if what they were saying was true" that what those people *are* saying might not be true? How is it that you assert your view of how the board looks as fact while you relegate others view to a questionable status at best?
>>>If you see who is certainly not blocked, and not even pbc'd, how can it be said that we weild hammers on those who disagree with us?
Is that a rhetorical question? It can be said because people believe it to be true, that's how.
>>> If you look at my PBC's over the past few days, how can it be seen as favoritism?If you expressed some understanding of the other person's views, they might be more willing to entertain yours. To respond to another's reasons with the statement "How can you say that" can lead some to conclude that you have not been listening.
>>> I try so hard to do what is right, because doing what is right is important to me.
What seems important to you is doing what you believe is right, and presuming that your sense of right and wrong applies to the entire universe. Others hold vastly different values.
>>> I cry when I read posts, but I don't retaliate with blocks or PBC's. I only give them when something is in violation of the civility guidelines of this site.
You act when you perceive things to be such. Your action does not make them such. You do seem eager to represent yourself to others as an infallible justice. Were you perchance forced in your childhood to accept the supposed infallibility of a caregiver?
>>> But I do want to give up. I feel so hurt. So many people saying these things are people I've spent time with in chat, people I've tried to be supportive to over the years.
Did you believe your effort to offer what you believed was support would grant you a blanket of immunity against criticism when you took on an authoritarian role?
>>>People who should know that not only do I not act vindictively, but I go out of my way to not hold grudges.
In the dynamics of authoritarian groups, sometimes one member of the ruling body serves as secretary, holding grudges and patterning acceptable methods of masking authority with civility. Another might act as ambassador and fixer, constantly affirming the unquestionable good of the authority. Another might serve as the critic, entertaining criticisms from outsiders and even offering criticisms from within, creating an appearance of self-examination that might not always bear the fruit of true self-examination. Just some interesting dynamics to consider.
>>> How many times have I responded supportively when I didn't have to, and when I could have thought I had reason not to. But I try not to think of individual acts and to see a person as the whole of who they are. I try to see the good people are to others, even if they don't particularly seem to care for me.
My, you seem like a really good person. At least you say you are. Why do you feel the need to convince others of your personal worth?
>>> I do want to give up.Maybe that would be best, at least insofar as your role as a deputy here is concerned.
>>> There are other deputies, and maybe they don't feel so hurt, and maybe they don't feel so discouraged.
Or maybe acting as "deputy" to a psychiatrist who says he created the best of two worlds by separating administrative from supportive roles, but who then merged the roles while withdrawing his involvement,
...only to return occasionally to apologize for not being around and to hastily make yet more rules in response to whatever situation he steps into at the moment he found convenient to drop by,
...rules that not even Solomon could interpret fairly,
...maybe that trained professional,
...insulated by his wealth and job security,
...unfamiliar with Western colloquialisms that let his deputies violate his rules with impunity by using constant backhanded insults,
...colloquial attack styles familiar to an economic and geographic culture he has never been part of,
...has put you in an untenable position he utterly lacks the comprehension to appreciate. Maybe you have been abused by someone who asked you to do a job he couldn't do himself, even with his extensive training.The problem might be an inappropriate tolerance for and exploitation of transference. Especially if one can use extended networks to recruit members with just that need, Mr. Hsiung might have selected members who consider his efforts, no matter how flawed in part, to inevitably be useful, despite evidence to the contrary, because they need to believe their parent's authoritarian roles were appropriate. And maybe Mr. Hsiung's ego won't let him fairly balance the harm he causes with whatever good results, and prevents him from realizing people who say they get help here would get the same help elsewhere if not distracted and seduced by this forum.
>>> And I can see how this can be read all wrong too. Dinah thinking she's so good, Dinah putting down others. When all I'm trying to express is Dinah hurting and Dinah trying to do what is right despite hurting.Who is Dinah hurting? Could Dinah stop hurting if she decided to? Would Dinah not hurt if she didn't insist that her preferred self-image govern all other's perceptions of her?
Posted by greywolf on April 23, 2007, at 21:24:30
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 20:57:53
Wow. I'm at a loss for words after reading this thread. I must be the only one who is completely missing all these supposedly arbitrary, biased, or thoughtless actions by the deputies.
The degree of bitterness and anger being directed at these volunteer administrators seems seriously out of proportion to any real problems.
Whether or not any particular person's contentions have serious merit, I can say without question that the way some people are expressing their dissatisfaction is saddening to me and others. Your points may be well taken with respect to the particularities of your complaints, but they're lost in the hurtful effects of your confrontational tone.
I'd like to see everyone grab a cup of coffee and take 5 minutes to write something nice about Babble, the deputies, or your fellow Babblers. I bet a lot of people would be heartened to hear some good things about this place and the people who devote their time to it.
Greywolf
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 23, 2007, at 21:35:47
In reply to Re: Deputies, posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 20:14:32
> Does suggesting that a particular person is ill qualified for a particular task imply that person is not human?
>
Which persons humanity is in question? I do Sometimes I wonder about those people with the compulsion to "suggest" that which is unsolicitated.
Okay.. "suggesting" is often used as a transparent euphemism. I don't think often one actually "suggests someone isn't fit" but b*tches about their every move.A "helpful suggestion" about performance may be recieved when one asks for input. However I don't think suggesting as above is indicating lack of humanness. I'd certainly question where the need to "suggest" this arises though.
In my experience the need to critique is often squarely within the person "suggesting" or an idiosyncratic personal annoyance that demands justification by finding fault in the "annoyee"
Now, concern is another of my favourite euphemisms. In my place of work it was always used as a preface to gossip. "We're just concerned about her" yeah.. right.
Whether or not a role is good for ones health I believe is up to that person to decide.
Not knowing the context of course, I don't know if these things even happened.
I can't say for sure, but I don't understand why these suggestions would be considered helpful, necessary, or really anything but ill-mannered sniping. They were not what I was thinking of in particular when I was speaking of the deputies not being seen as human.> Does suggesting that a person has been recruited to perform a task that might injure that person or others imply the person performing the task is not human?
Posted by zazenducke on April 23, 2007, at 21:47:05
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by greywolf on April 23, 2007, at 21:24:30
> Wow. I'm at a loss for words after reading this thread. I must be the only one who is completely missing all these supposedly arbitrary, biased, or thoughtless actions by the deputies.
I believe many of these posts in this thread have been quite complimentary.
>
> The degree of bitterness and anger being directed at these volunteer administrators seems seriously out of proportion to any real problems.Bitterness and anger are your perceptions and your judements of what others are feeling. don't you think the problems are real to the people who post about them? Would you be upset if others accused the deputies of bitterness and anger?
>
> Whether or not any particular person's contentions have serious merit, I can say without question that the way some people are expressing their dissatisfaction is saddening to me and others. Your points may be well taken with respect to the particularities of your complaints, but they're lost in the hurtful effects of your confrontational tone.Could you explain who in particular you're talking about? I have participated in this thread as have many others. I believe making sweeping negative statements about a group of unspecified individuals is not likely to be helpful. I don't feel supported or educated myself.
>
> I'd like to see everyone grab a cup of coffee and take 5 minutes to write something nice about Babble, the deputies, or your fellow Babblers. I bet a lot of people would be heartened to hear some good things about this place and the people who devote their time to it.I believe much of this thread has been devoted to saying complimentary things to the deputies. But I'm ok with your request.
Babble is kept up very well technically. Lots of people care about each other. There is some tolerance of different view points if presented in Babble-approved style. the deputies devote quite a bit of time to this. OK your turn :)
>
> Greywolf
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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