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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 163. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on July 8, 2005, at 21:07:37
ask about other's overdose experiences?
It would be purely for educational purposes of course.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 8, 2005, at 22:31:03
In reply to Is it permissible to..., posted by Deneb on July 8, 2005, at 21:07:37
There are a lot of other sites out there where people are only so willing to 'educate' others about ways to harm / kill themselves. I thought you liked this site because it was something of a respite from that.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 8, 2005, at 22:32:20
In reply to Is it permissible to..., posted by Deneb on July 8, 2005, at 21:07:37
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050628/msgs/524410.html
"Cool"?????
Posted by Deneb on July 8, 2005, at 23:16:28
In reply to Re: Is it permissible to... » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on July 8, 2005, at 22:31:03
I don't know what I like.
I just want to better understand the rules. I'm just asking a question.
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 0:38:38
In reply to Re: Is it permissible to..., posted by Deneb on July 8, 2005, at 23:16:28
People do post about their experiences. Sometimes people post about SI experiences.
I have posted about mine.
But it is with regret and sadness.
Not with the intent of glorifying it for others.
Or for the purposes of them finding out more or less harmful ways.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2005, at 1:31:19
In reply to Is it permissible to..., posted by Deneb on July 8, 2005, at 21:07:37
> ask about other's overdose experiences?
>
> It would be purely for educational purposes of course.What would you be trying to learn?
Bob
Posted by Deneb on July 9, 2005, at 9:04:20
In reply to Re: Is it permissible to..., posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2005, at 1:31:19
> What would you be trying to learn?
Either why ODs are a bad idea
OR
What not to do.Ok if not permissible, I have other sources.
ThanksDeneb
Posted by so on July 9, 2005, at 9:51:28
In reply to Re: Is it permissible to..., posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2005, at 1:31:19
> > ask about other's overdose experiences?
> >
> > It would be purely for educational purposes of course.
>
> What would you be trying to learn?
>
> BobReview of such material can reveal drug combinations that lead to unexpected poisonings, as well as the social circumstances that surround poisonings.
For example, was the person with friends who were aware the poisoning victim was incapacitated but who did nothing to help, perhaps because of their own intoxication? Awareness that many drug-related poisonings occur in such circumstances could help others learn not to over-titrate dangerous drugs among company that cannot be relied upon to provide help. Likewise, information about people who accidentally poison their system unexpectedly can promote an understanding that certain drug combinations can lead to incapacitation that might be reversable only if treated by competent or qualified caregivers. Information about how caregivers responded can potentially be life-saving.
Of course, as is all of the information available at this forum under the title of "babble", such information is also available elsewhere, usually catalogued under scholarly headings.
Posted by Jen Star on July 9, 2005, at 10:54:55
In reply to Is it permissible to..., posted by Deneb on July 8, 2005, at 21:07:37
hi Deneb,
if you're starting to think about this stuff again, it might be time to see your doctor or therapist again. My personal opinion is that people know what NOT to do. If someone is trying to "push the limits" and bring themself to the edge of death or illness, that's scary stuff....and hopefully not the kind of thing we could find here!I hope you're doing OK. Are you doing OK? How are you feeling lately?
JenStar
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2005, at 16:07:25
In reply to Re: Is it permissible to..., posted by Deneb on July 9, 2005, at 9:04:20
> > What would you be trying to learn?
>
> Either why ODs are a bad idea
> OR
> What not to do.ODs are a bad idea because they can lead to injury or death. So do not OD.
Bob
Posted by Deneb on July 9, 2005, at 17:24:49
In reply to Re: Is it permissible to..., posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2005, at 16:07:25
> ODs are a bad idea because they can lead to injury or death. So do not OD.
>
> BobYour message totally took me by surprise. Sympathetic system overdrive after reading it.
It scared me.You are serious aren't you?
Don't worry for me people, I'm still a little too fat to die. I don't want to be a fat corpse. I want to lose 15 pounds first.
ODs = unre***ble
____ing is probably a better way anyways.
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 18:31:30
In reply to Re: Seriousness of death, posted by Deneb on July 9, 2005, at 17:24:49
> > ODs are a bad idea because they can lead to injury or death. So do not OD.
> Your message totally took me by surprise. Sympathetic system overdrive after reading it.
> It scared me.Why? Didn't you know that already?
> Don't worry for me people, I'm still a little too fat to die. I don't want to be a fat corpse. I want to lose 15 pounds first.
Why? Are you worried about not looking glam enough in your coffin?
> ODs = unre***ble
> ____ing is probably a better way anyways.When I read these comments I feel really sick way down deep inside me.
Some people have gone through hell because someone close to them has killed themself.
But you play around with the idea.
And I think... I think that disrespects them.
Because it isn't about death anyway. You have admitted that before. It isn't about death anyway.
And I really shouldn't post to you about this stuff when you are in this kind of place because I feel sick and I feel mad with you because of where I have been in my life.
It is painful for me to walk.
Every f*cking day.
Because I was messing around with this sh*t.
And its hard because I remember the feeling of not caring whether I lived or died.
And I do get that.
But...
I don't want to hear about it anymore.
Sorry Jenny, but I can't help you when you are in this kind of mood.
And for myself I need to keep myself safe.
Posted by crushedout on July 9, 2005, at 18:39:26
In reply to Re: Seriousness of death » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 18:31:30
> Some people have gone through hell because someone close to them has killed themself.
> But you play around with the idea.
> And I think... I think that disrespects them.
Posted by Deneb on July 9, 2005, at 19:09:33
In reply to Dr. Bob, is this civil? If so, please explain why., posted by crushedout on July 9, 2005, at 18:39:26
Posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 19:17:37
In reply to Re: Seriousness of death, posted by Deneb on July 9, 2005, at 17:24:49
Ok, so I didn't see anything wrong with what I said... But I've been thinking about it since Crushed posted, and I see how it could be taken the wrong way.
>>> ODs are a bad idea because they can lead to injury or death. So do not OD.
>> Your message totally took me by surprise. Sympathetic system overdrive after reading it.
>> It scared me.
>Why? Didn't you know that already?
>>Don't worry for me people, I'm still a little too fat to die. I don't want to be a fat corpse. I want to lose 15 pounds first.
>Why? Are you worried about not looking glam enough in your coffin?See, here I'm a bit boggled. Sounds rather like joking about death.
>When I read these comments I feel really sick >way down deep inside me.
>Some people have gone through hell because >someone close to them has killed themself.
>But you play around with the idea.
>And I think... I think that disrespects them.Because you play around with the idea and joke about it. And an additional reason why I find it disrespecful is:
>Because it isn't about death anyway. You have >admitted that before. It isn't about death >anyway.
And that is the bit I really need to clarify. Because I think you are interested in the idea that people who are serious about suicide succeed. And people who aren't serious, who want attention or whatever don't succeed. Or, at the very least, they try something with a higher liklihood of success.
But what is this really about?
You want the pain and horrible feelings to stop.
And then a lot of stuff comes up... A lot of stuff... About how bad things feel to you, and about other people knowing how bad things are. And other people don't seem to believe you or care or do anything to stop you feeling bad and so hurting yourself is a way of showing people just how bad things are. And of course suicide is the ultimate gesture that things are not okay.>And I really shouldn't post to you about this >stuff when you are in this kind of place because >I feel sick and I feel mad with you because of >where I have been in my life.
>It is painful for me to walk.
>Every f*cking day.
>Because I was messing around with this sh*t.
>And its hard because I remember the feeling of >not caring whether I lived or died.
>And I do get that.
>But...I used to have a morbid pre-occupation too. I'd think about it an awful lot. And think about different ways. And think about which of those different ways I thought I could do. And try to balance what I thought I could do with the ways that have a greater liklihood of success. And I'd joke about it a great deal too. And want to hear all about it.
And something felt a bit good there. Like I had an option and if worst came to worst there was something I could do. And thats the horrible bit. Because it can seem wonderful now because it can seem like a legitimate option - but you won't really do anything and it helps you feel a bit better so really there is no harm in it.
But then when things get bad it starts to look like the ONLY option and that is f*cking terrifying.
And so it is hard. Because there is something fascinating about it. And there is something that helps in thinking about it.
But it is a short term short sighted gain that can really kick you in the guts when things turn to sh*t.
And you really need to focus on how to keep yourself safe and how to get yourself out of this and how to get yourself better. Not just to circle round this all the time.
>I don't want to hear about it anymore.
>Sorry Jenny, but I can't help you when you are >in this kind of mood.
>And for myself I need to keep myself safe.And that is what it comes down to really. That what you say rings too close to home to me. Because I work damned hard to not dwell on those thoughts and to not get involved in conversations where people are glorifying death and joking about it.
And I don't want to risk going back there again.
I don't want to risk getting sucked back there.
And that is why I never made friends with anyone in DBT
And that is why I won't be posting to you with regards to this stuff anymore
Because I'm not that strong.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 19:19:33
In reply to Dr. Bob, is this civil? If so, please explain why., posted by crushedout on July 9, 2005, at 18:39:26
I'd appreciate it if you could tell me directly if you have a problem with my posts.
Kind of in the spirit of 'lets try and help this person not get blocked' rather than requesting a determination from Dr Bob where a blocking is the likely consequence.
If people had have jumped on board with Larry (and other people who have been blocked) we may have been able to prevent that.
Thanks.
Posted by Deneb on July 9, 2005, at 19:22:38
In reply to Re: Is it permissible to..., posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2005, at 16:07:25
Posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 19:28:27
In reply to Re: I'm sorry i hurt u Alex, I'll stop now (nm), posted by Deneb on July 9, 2005, at 19:22:38
I do consider you a friend.
I know that you have posted about having a morbid preoccupation before...
I'd be happy to talk about ways you might be able to try and stop that (hell, its something that is still hard for me sometimes and maybe we can help each other).
I'd be happy to share my experiences even - if I thought there was some postive benefit to that. But I don't think there is really...
I mean...
I thought your question was a little like asking:
'it is okay to ask people about their experience of being raped?'
I guess it is technically ok...
But to what purpose?
It is a horrible experience.
And I look back on my SI and in thinking about it it takes me back to how I felt when I did it
And I wouldn't go back there for worlds
Unless I thought the cost was moderated by some pretty solid gains.Still your friend.
Posted by crushedout on July 9, 2005, at 19:44:23
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, is this civil? If so, please explain why. » crushedout, posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 19:19:33
the only problem i have is with what sometimes seems like arbitrary or unfair application of the rules. i doubt you will be blocked, but i don't understand why not, since i think by definition what you said wasn't civil.but i'd like to understand the rules and i'm asking bob to clarify why i've got this wrong if i do.
i have no desire to get you blocked.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 20:53:52
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, is this civil? If so, please explain » alexandra_k, posted by crushedout on July 9, 2005, at 19:44:23
> the only problem i have is with what sometimes seems like arbitrary or unfair application of the rules.
Context can be importaint.
>i doubt you will be blocked, but i don't understand why not, since i think by definition what you said wasn't civil.
??? Deneb didn't seem to feel hurt or accused.
Blockings seem to have a lot to do with stopping situations from escalating. If Deneb was upset by what I said and I kept going I might get a warning / blocking for it.
Posted by crushedout on July 9, 2005, at 21:19:18
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, is this civil? If so, please explain » crushedout, posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 20:53:52
> >i doubt you will be blocked, but i don't understand why not, since i think by definition what you said wasn't civil.
>
> ??? Deneb didn't seem to feel hurt or accused.it's not a subjective standard. read the FAQ on I-statements again. what you said doesn't qualify as an I-statement.
> Blockings seem to have a lot to do with stopping situations from escalating. If Deneb was upset by what I said and I kept going I might get a warning / blocking for it.
that's not my experience of how things work around here.
Posted by Deneb on July 9, 2005, at 22:00:45
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, is this civil? If so, please explain » crushedout, posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 20:53:52
> ??? Deneb didn't seem to feel hurt or accused.
I was hurt, esp. by the idea that I want to "look glam in my coffin."
I don't want anyone to get blocked. I messed up again and I'm sorry.
BTW, I know it totally doesn't make sense to want to look nice dead, also I'm not that shallow as to judge people based on looks. I would want to be cremated.
I think I'm finally convinced that Dr. Bob doesn't want me dead. Thanks for doing that Dr. Bob. I will try very very hard to be good here and not die.
Deneb
Posted by justyourlaugh on July 9, 2005, at 22:42:11
In reply to Re: Was I hurt?, posted by Deneb on July 9, 2005, at 22:00:45
deneb..
i feel your casual remarks about death are uncivil..and morbid..
please ..please ..put "trigger" in your subject line..so thoses who know your posting style will avoid your "death" rants...
trying not to die...jyl
Posted by Sarah T. on July 9, 2005, at 23:14:04
In reply to Re: Was I hurt?, posted by Deneb on July 9, 2005, at 22:00:45
Deneb,
I have read some of your other posts over the last few months, and from many of them, it is clear that you are an extremely intelligent, observant, sensitive person. You have so much going for you. I wish that you would get the help you need so that you can move in a healthier direction and pursue your academic ambitions, such as astronomy. I gather that you are living at home now and working for your uncle, which must be very difficult. Perhaps you can start to think about moving away from home and working as a research assistant in a science setting. Can you apprentice with an astronomer at an observatory? Being away from your family of origin and working at a more rewarding job will make you feel better about yourself. I think you MUST find a good psychiatrist who will not only help you with your medication but also talk with you about the things that distress you and cause you to go off on these death wish tangents. Every time I see one of your morbid posts, I think to myself, "Aw, c'mon Deneb, you know better than that." Although I don't know you well, I can tell from your other posts that you are wise enough to know that wallowing in these thoughts is, at best, unhealthy. If you are really serious about some of the things you say at these times, then it is even more critical that you should be in therapy regularly. And if you are not serious about these things, then you should still be in therapy to explore why you resort to this kind of talk and behavior. Although the other people on PB can be wonderfully helpful and supportive, there isn't anyone here who can function as a psychiatrist to you over the Internet. Not even those with M.D.'s or Ph.D's or social work degrees can legally or ethically treat you online. Please do some research on the psychiatrists in your area, and make appointments with several of them. Interview them, and choose the one with whom you feel most comfortable.
Posted by Deneb on July 9, 2005, at 23:26:38
In reply to Re: Was I hurt?, posted by justyourlaugh on July 9, 2005, at 22:42:11
I'm really upset that so many people think I'm trying to hurt others on purpose.
Like I said, I'm really sorry. I don't know what else I can do here.
I'm sorry I don't know how to behave. I'm sorry I don't "get it." I just don't understand why people are so upset at what I say.
Block me if I was uncivil. I should have put trigger warnings. I just really don't get it sometimes.
I don't think this belongs in admin anymore.
Please redirect any non-admin topics to social please.
Please try not to comment on this any further, it is making me more and more upset.
Deneb
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