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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by SLS on July 4, 2018, at 7:28:26
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 4, 2018, at 7:03:41
Hi, Lamdage.
> Its always a risk to try stuff. What was so bad about your state with Parnate and Abilify? What do you mean when you say you were stuck?
Anhedonia, anergia, and lack of interest and motivation still plagued me. My abilities to read, learn, and remember were still greatly impaired. Psychomotor retardation was still a problem. Although there was some improvement, there wasn't enough for me to function very well and enjoy activities. I was leading an empty life. Because I have experienced remission several times, I know exactly how much I am missing.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 4, 2018, at 7:36:56
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 4, 2018, at 7:28:26
Maybe you have an unrealistic view of remission? Healthy people can still be unmotivated and dysphoric. They still have problems that need attention.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 4, 2018, at 7:47:34
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 4, 2018, at 7:28:26
I think you will be fine. Dont lose your faith. Just because you are a vegetable right now does not mean you will be for the rest of your life.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 4, 2018, at 8:48:35
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 4, 2018, at 7:28:26
there is a whole world of non medication stuff to try that could make you feel better. It helps me a lot. You are not beyond hope
Posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2018, at 22:48:43
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » alexandra_k, posted by SLS on July 4, 2018, at 6:53:58
> Even though my life is "good" right now, I wouldn't have regret anything if I had killed myself way back, because I'd be dead.
I think I feel the same, Deneb. Sometimes I take comfort in knowing that pain and misery will pass. No matter how bad things feel, at times, it will pass. And one day there will be peace in the form of no more pain and misery.
> I find that belief to be both orderly and terrorizing. When I was younger and had many years ahead of me, my age was not an issue. It is now. I am running out of time. I have suffered a life of struggle and pain. I would like to have my remaining years make my life having been worth living. I don't see remission happening for me.
I think I also feel the same as this, at times, Scott.
I think (for me) it is because I decided not to have kids. It wasn't that I didn't want to contribute to this world -- it was that I didn't want that to be my contribution to this world. I had other contributions in mind, but I find myself stuck in a state of poverty fairly persistently which means I don't even have any kind of say in anything, whatsoever... Of course I do see that having a kid wouldn't have made me any the richer so I don't regret that. But I do feel sad that this world didn't work out for me such that I felt able to... Support?? Continued existence in it. Thinking of reproduction as a form of continued existence into the future, I mean. Like... A cutting, of a kind.
> I was lucky enough to find an organization that caters to people with mental illness. It is understood that people will not be feeling well enough to engage in activities every day. Much of the work involves keeping the organization running by soliciting funding and performing administrative tasks. There are creative outlets as well. People produce art that is shown and sold in local galleries. Creative writing is supported by having workshops. Cooking and preparing lunch is another activity. There are social workers to help out with keeping people involved and encourage people to interact in the community. The people there are great.
I see. That's something that people find makes life meaningful and worth living. People. People who accept things (e.g., that sometimes you don't feel like going in or doing whatever and to allow that). People who accept and actually value self-expression in the form of creativity.
In reading this... Of course I'm probably projecting my own issues... But what I thought of was an organisation struggling to survive... In the sense of much of the work involving soliciting funding...
I have been thinking a lot, lately, about sustainability. It's a buzzword now, which is upsetting. Something about the difference between a constant struggle to stay afloat (which my life has mostly been - living from week to week) vs a sense of security in having those basic needs met so one is able to work to increase that security or sustainability into other things...
I wonder if there are things that might contribute towards making the organisation more sustainable so people didn't need to spend so much time trying to attract funding? I don't know. I'm starting to think that along with inter-personal relationships figuring out how to get something that was struggling to stay afloat into a position of sustainability is one of the hardest things in the world. Especially when there may be management structures and / or shareholders to support...
I think things are particularly hard in this country because it is the 'easiest economy to do business in, in the world' (because we don't have laws preventing practices known to be harmful)... Because the management ideal seems to be to buy early, exploit, and get out at the right time. Rinse and repeat. Because a bunch of salaries were 'only supposed to be temporary' (along with my extreme poverty)...
I don't know that I'm talking much sense.
I guess this is why people like to plant trees.
But then I think about little red hen 'who will help me plant the seed'... And who will take the fruit for themselves in the night...
Do you have a bucket list? Running out of time for... What? What would you like to do with your life from this point, if you were well?
Posted by alexandra_k on July 6, 2018, at 7:06:58
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » SLS, posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2018, at 22:48:43
> But then I think about little red hen 'who will help me plant the seed'... And who will take the fruit for themselves in the night...
And, of course, I didn't mean that. I meant something along the lines of 'and who will decide to make a lot of money off of exports by taking things in the night' - or similar. I just mean to say 'enough for everyones need - not greed'...
Sigh.
I don't mean to hijack conversation...
I suppose something I value is something to bounce off... Sometimes you resonate 'yes, I agree' and othertimes you uppose 'and no, that is you, and not me'. And, either way, it is self defining...
I don't really know you at all, I feel. I try... And you can resonate, or bounce. I don't mind. Just getting to know ya.
Posted by Clearskies on July 6, 2018, at 22:42:46
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on June 24, 2018, at 21:29:27
Hi, Scott
Im sorry to find you in distress, too. Mine is mostly situational as too much stress is happening at once for me to be able to cope...I try to be kind to myself.
Please be kind to yourself. Were not well. I dont think remission is possible for me, either. Its disturbing that the lows get lower and longer. And have more dire consequences.
We dont really know our own value when were like this. You have no idea how much youre appreciated and yes, needed. Whether at warp speed or in a decaying orbit, we remain living and breathing. Well, maybe not living (in my case).
I wish you feel a bit better soon, Scott. I suspect the Parnate drop pushed this on to you.
Hugs
Nancy
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 7, 2018, at 4:51:09
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Clearskies on July 6, 2018, at 22:42:46
I didnt want to rub you the wrong way, Scott. Just trying to help. You can always come here to talk.
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2018, at 14:05:29
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » SLS, posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2018, at 22:48:43
> Do you have a bucket list?
Not really. Too depressed. No interest in doing anything except to feel better. My construction of a bucket list will depend on what things I become interested in once the depression has lifted.
> Running out of time for... What?
Living.
> What would you like to do with your life from this point, if you were well?
Until last week, I was planning to get well and get a job in automobile sales. Now, I plan to live out my days trying to keep a roof over my head and avoiding depression and pain. I need to continue to process and accept that I will die while never having lived.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2018, at 14:06:48
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 7, 2018, at 4:51:09
> I didnt want to rub you the wrong way, Scott. Just trying to help. You can always come here to talk.
>Thanks.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 7, 2018, at 14:52:57
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » alexandra_k, posted by SLS on July 7, 2018, at 14:05:29
>avoiding depression and pain.
What is your plan?
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2018, at 15:33:48
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 7, 2018, at 14:52:57
> >avoiding depression and pain.
>
> What is your plan?I don't have one. One day at a time.
- Scott
Posted by sigismund on July 8, 2018, at 2:10:19
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » alexandra_k, posted by SLS on July 7, 2018, at 14:05:29
> I need to continue to process and accept that I will die while never having lived.
Not the life you wanted or can easily accept, but not a life without strong feelings.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 8, 2018, at 5:23:29
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by sigismund on July 8, 2018, at 2:10:19
That might become a self fulfilling prophecy. That the depression that makes you think that way. From the outside you looked much better on Parnate and Abilify. You werent in remission but you were functioning. Not so many people reach remission. Especially not by meds alone.
Posted by baseball55 on July 8, 2018, at 18:16:57
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 8, 2018, at 5:23:29
Hi Scott - I identify with feeling empty and in despair. But I wonder, do you have any social supports - a 12-step group, a mental illness support group, a therapy group. I ask, because I still sometimes get so depressed that all I can imagine is suicide. But I am abel to reach out to people I've met in these sort of groups who make me feel less empty, more full. This has really been more effective for me that drugs, which only partly control the depression and do not hold me.
I understand that desire to isolate and hunker down, but could you set yourself one small social task a day - like go to the grocery store and converse briefly with the clerk (if only about the weather). When I am depressed and despairing, I really tend to isolate, but I've realized this just makes everything worse. Even severe melancholic depression ca be partly situational.
Maybe see a DBT therapist about concrete steps you can take to make things a little better.
I just turned 63 and I understand that feeling that life has passed you by. How old are you? But I go to AA and have seen people, including people with severe mental illness change their lives dramatically with the support of others.
I realize you are not an addict/alcoholic (though there are many people who go to AA for the social support who are not really alcoholics), but I believe there are groups for people with other forms of mental illness.
For some reason, I believe (maybe wrongly) the you live in NYC? These must be all kinds of social support groups in any big city.
You have my fullest empathy, hope an prayers.
Posted by SLS on July 9, 2018, at 11:19:01
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by baseball55 on July 8, 2018, at 18:16:57
Hi, BB.
I embrace everything you have said here. I greatly appreciate the time you spent composing this post. It is good to see in black and white your advice. Right now, I have available to me a volunteer "job" that allows me to be around other people with mental health challenges. I can do relatively easy work to pass the time and contribute or I can do nothing at all. It gives me a chance to be around people and socialize with understanding and support. It is more of a clubhouse than a business. It is modeled after the Fountain House facility located in NYC.
- Scott
> Hi Scott - I identify with feeling empty and in despair. But I wonder, do you have any social supports - a 12-step group, a mental illness support group, a therapy group. I ask, because I still sometimes get so depressed that all I can imagine is suicide. But I am abel to reach out to people I've met in these sort of groups who make me feel less empty, more full. This has really been more effective for me that drugs, which only partly control the depression and do not hold me.
>
> I understand that desire to isolate and hunker down, but could you set yourself one small social task a day - like go to the grocery store and converse briefly with the clerk (if only about the weather). When I am depressed and despairing, I really tend to isolate, but I've realized this just makes everything worse. Even severe melancholic depression ca be partly situational.
>
> Maybe see a DBT therapist about concrete steps you can take to make things a little better.
>
> I just turned 63 and I understand that feeling that life has passed you by. How old are you? But I go to AA and have seen people, including people with severe mental illness change their lives dramatically with the support of others.
>
> I realize you are not an addict/alcoholic (though there are many people who go to AA for the social support who are not really alcoholics), but I believe there are groups for people with other forms of mental illness.
>
> For some reason, I believe (maybe wrongly) the you live in NYC? These must be all kinds of social support groups in any big city.
>
> You have my fullest empathy, hope an prayers.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 10, 2018, at 6:09:12
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » alexandra_k, posted by SLS on July 7, 2018, at 14:05:29
> > Do you have a bucket list?
> Not really. Too depressed. No interest in doing anything except to feel better. My construction of a bucket list will depend on what things I become interested in once the depression has lifted.Well, then, I hope this lifts for you, soon.
Can you remember back to a time when you felt better... Can you remember any of those things you used to feel excited or happy or pleased or content about?
> > Running out of time for... What?
> Living.(((Scott)))
> > What would you like to do with your life from this point, if you were well?> Until last week, I was planning to get well and get a job in automobile sales.
Huh. Do you like cars? I guess you do? Why were you thinking about automobile sales?
> Now, I plan to live out my days trying to keep a roof over my head and avoiding depression and pain. I need to continue to process and accept that I will die while never having lived.
I resonate with that.
I don't know whether you will like this, or not, but when I maybe feel like some company but don't feel like people laughing at me or making demands of me or whatever... When I don't feel like leaving the house... I kind of get a kick out of these people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byva0hOj8CU
Posted by baseball55 on July 11, 2018, at 16:42:41
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » alexandra_k, posted by SLS on July 7, 2018, at 14:05:29
> Until last week, I was planning to get well and get a job in automobile sales. Now, I plan to live out my days trying to keep a roof over my head and avoiding depression and pain. I need to continue to process and accept that I will die while never having lived.
>
> That is a very sad statement. I feel very fortunate in that I did not experience depression until my late 40s, by which time I had raised children. had a long marriage, and established a professional career.Your problems with mental illness began (I believe) when you were much younger. But to say that you need to accept that "I will die while having never lived," is not a statement that moves you anywhere positive. Maybe a more spiritual approach would help.
Accept that my life was not what I expected or perhaps had hoped for, but I have had the courage and perseverance to face it.
Accept that I do not feel as well much of the time as I would hope, but I can focus on the little joys that come with living - the warmth of the sun, the antics of a dog in a park - whatever.
I don't want to sound like a Pollyanna and nobody was more resistant to this way of approaching life as me. But I have found that a mindful approach to living is more effective in combatting depression than any drugs I have tried. Trying to stay in the moment, cultivate gratitude and nonjudgmental awareness. As my (Buddhist) DBT therapist told me, "there is peace in the moment."
By nonjudgmental awareness, I mean being aware of things without getting angry, despairing, annoyed, frustrated. Just - I feel a sense of despair right now. Where in my body to I feel this? Just watch and be aware of the sensation - what thoughts does this feeling generate. As if you were an outside observer. The biggest danger to your life and health is to respond instead by thoughts (which I fall into periodically) like, I can't stand this anymore, my life is hopeless, I will never feel better, I'll die without ever having lived.
I'm sorry for the long post and maybe I am completely off the wall. I'm not trying to sell you on some philosophy. But my depression had spiraled so completely out of control that my psychiatrist (who was also my therapist) insisted I do DBT to learn to cope with (if not completely stop) despairing thoughts. I fought the DBT therapy and all it's focus on mindfulness at first. I didn't even really understand it. But now I pretty much get it and it really does help.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 13, 2018, at 14:21:10
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by baseball55 on July 8, 2018, at 18:16:57
My opinion is something along the lines of what baseball said. I would write your options down and try to think about it rationally. You are very depressed right now so your thinking is clouded.
New therapist? Hospital for a few weeks? Meds? (but you already do that) Supplements? Diet? A social worker? A class where you can make new friends? Reconnecting with existing friends? Deepen the relationship?
There are so many things.
Good luck
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 15, 2018, at 6:04:54
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 13, 2018, at 14:21:10
It sucks that you dont feel like doing any of these things when you are severely depressed. But if you dont it will just get worse.
Posted by SLS on July 16, 2018, at 9:32:37
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 15, 2018, at 6:04:54
> It sucks that you dont feel like doing any of these things when you are severely depressed. But if you dont it will just get worse.
I understand the wisdom in this, but depression often leaves me unable to get off the couch. I had a negative reaction to both Trintellix and Effexor. It looks much like too much serotonin. Perhaps I need time to let my brain settle after coming off Parnate. I hope that's all it is.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 16, 2018, at 10:17:57
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by SLS on July 16, 2018, at 9:32:37
No matter how big the reward is for getting up? BTW: Was Parnate really that bad for you?
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 16, 2018, at 10:34:05
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by SLS on July 16, 2018, at 9:32:37
So if i stood infront of your door to give you ten grand, you couldnt get up and open the door?
Posted by SLS on July 16, 2018, at 12:15:55
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 16, 2018, at 10:34:05
> So if i stood infront of your door to give you ten grand, you couldnt get up and open the door?
I don't know what you want me to say. If I say yes, what would that indicate to you?
Parnate was a dead-end. I felt better on Parnate than I do today, but I felt it was worth the pain to gamble on finding a better treatment.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 16, 2018, at 12:32:00
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 16, 2018, at 12:15:55
> > So if i stood infront of your door to give you ten grand, you couldnt get up and open the door?
>
> I don't know what you want me to say. If I say yes, what would that indicate to you?I think yes means that you do have a choice. Its a hard one but my definition of "unable" is different.
> Parnate was a dead-end. I felt better on Parnate than I do today, but I felt it was worth the pain to gamble on finding a better treatment.
I see... I dont know what to recommend. What is your plan now as far as medication?
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