![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 17:38:13
I think it's because Dr. Bob replied to me.
(((((((((((Bob)))))))))))))
I'm suddenly more alert. I don't want to crawl into bed anymore. I'm thinking of cleaning up the area outside the bedrooms. (I'd been "cleaning" my room for about 2 months now. A lot of my stuff is still out in this area.)
Maybe it's just a coincidence, Bob replying and me feeling better. Maybe this good feeling is temporary.
I bookmarked Bob's reply. I should make a scrapbook of all the replies Bob has given me. :-) Would that be creepy? Bordering on psychopath stalker creepy?
When I'm down, I imagine that Dr. Bob doesn't like me. I start thinking the worse. I need to remind myself of all the things Dr. Bob has written to me that oppose those thoughts.
Deneb*
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 4, 2006, at 19:12:35
In reply to I'm starting to feel better :-), posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 17:38:13
I would like to give you some feedback. I hope that this feels constructive rather than critical.
It sometimes feels very hard to respond to your posts. Many of us write to you when you are in pain (and also when you aren't) and give you ideas and share our own experiences. But you seem to avoid responding if it is something that you don't want to hear. You don't even want to engage in a dialogue.
But, I guess I feel prompted to write this now b/c this post really frustrates me. You don't think that feeling better has ANYTHING to do with the support that babblers have shown you? Do you care about US at all?
I am writing this because I'm worried that people may stop responding to your posts for this very reason. If they feel like I do, they may simply start to say, "Why bother?"
Please consider it, okay?
Best,
EE
Posted by llrrrpp on July 4, 2006, at 19:33:12
In reply to I'm starting to feel better :-), posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 17:38:13
> I think it's because Dr. Bob replied to me.
>
> (((((((((((Bob)))))))))))))
>Well, I guess it's nice to get attention from people who are important to you :) I like it when Dr. Bob responds to me too. Probably for different reasons, but it's nice to know that someone's listening.
> I'm suddenly more alert. I don't want to crawl into bed anymore. I'm thinking of cleaning up the area outside the bedrooms. (I'd been "cleaning" my room for about 2 months now. A lot of my stuff is still out in this area.)
>
> Maybe it's just a coincidence, Bob replying and me feeling better. Maybe this good feeling is temporary.
>
> I bookmarked Bob's reply. I should make a scrapbook of all the replies Bob has given me. :-) Would that be creepy? Bordering on psychopath stalker creepy?
>
> When I'm down, I imagine that Dr. Bob doesn't like me. I start thinking the worse. I need to remind myself of all the things Dr. Bob has written to me that oppose those thoughts.
>
> Deneb*Well Deneb* these sound like some interesting little cognitive patterns you've been working on. Sounds like maybe you have given this symbolic Dr. Bob control over your feelings. You are at the mercy of another person, with whom you don't have a reliable, consistent relationship. Other people let us down, and for this reason, it's important to know how to make yourself feel better using your own powers. self-soothing. Very difficult thing to master, but I think that it's possible to make some real progress.
What happens when you feel bad again? If you can only rely on Dr. Bob, then you will be forced to confront Dr. Bob, because part of you holds him responsible for your suffering. And then maybe he'll respond, maybe he won't. And in the meanwhile you're still hurting. I don't want you to become dependent like this. It ends up hurting you so much more often than helping.
I kind of feel EE's frustrations too. I wonder if Deneb* has kind of let Dr. Bob become a symbol for online support. Hopefully the things that other posters (like me and EE) write you are helpful. Maybe they haven't sunk in yet. We can only hear things we're ready to hear. Maybe I say things that are largely irrelevant, or incomprehensible.
take care, I'm happy to hear that you got a little pep in your step :) Thanks for sending me hugs earlier. I appreciate your good advice, and it's nice to hear from a friend when I'm feeling icky :)
Hope you get to bed at a sensible hour tonight :)
-ll
Posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 19:44:52
In reply to Re: I'm starting to feel better :-), posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 4, 2006, at 19:12:35
I'm sorry. :-(
I don't really get why this happens to me, people telling me they are fed up with me. :-(
It's because I don't respond to many posts, isn't it?
I don't know what I'm doing that's different from what other people are doing. I really don't. Are people going to be fed up with me until I get a therapist? People keep telling me to get a therapist. What if I don't want to get a T right now? People will be angry?
So people tell me do X and Y and I have to do X and Y or else they will get frustrated?
What if I'm not ready to do X and Y?
I respond to people who post to me. I've been trying to do that. It isn't enough? :-(
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 20:03:11
In reply to Re: I'm starting to feel ?, posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 19:44:52
Someone at another forum is making me feel upset.
I'm very upset.
I want to OD again. :-(
Posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 20:22:01
In reply to Re: I'm very upset, posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 20:03:11
I'm not as upset anymore. It's tolerable now.
Deneb*
Posted by TexasChic on July 4, 2006, at 20:32:12
In reply to Re: I'm very upset, posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 20:03:11
Try to remember, you can't control what other people do, but you can control how YOU react to them. Maybe you just need to avoid that place for awhile until you can better control your reactions to this person (not let them get to you). A person can't bother you if you don't let them.
Of course, I know this is all easier said than done. But if you keep at it I know you can do it. If I can get over being upset with the bitchygirls at work when they're staring and whispering all day, I know you can overcome this person getting the better of you.
Oh, and another tip I've picked up. IGNORE THEM COMPLETELY. No response whatsoever. Just go on with your conversation as if they don't exist. Its really hard at first, but I've used this a few times now and EVERY time it made them crazy and me feel better. Plus they look like the jerk to everyone else, where as you come off as the mature person.
-T
Posted by llrrrpp on July 4, 2006, at 20:51:15
In reply to Re: I'm starting to feel ?, posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 19:44:52
> I'm sorry. :-(
It's okay Deneb, you didn't offend me. I see no need to apologize. You didn't say anything uncivil.
> I don't really get why this happens to me, people telling me they are fed up with me. :-(
>
> It's because I don't respond to many posts, isn't it?you respond to a lot of posts. I think it's fine to respond to posts that grab you, posts where you think you can make a difference, posts where you can share, posts where a buddy is in trouble, and posts where you just wanna have fun.
> I don't know what I'm doing that's different from what other people are doing. I really don't. Are people going to be fed up with me until I get a therapist? People keep telling me to get a therapist. What if I don't want to get a T right now? People will be angry?
Well, I care about you, and I want the best for you. I personally have found my work with a T to be very helpful. Even when it was painful, it was helpful. You might not be ready to get a T right now, but is there a reason for it? In so many of your posts you bring up topics that I simply don't feel qualified to respond to- things about the purpose of life, and the nature of strong feelings, and you seem to be asking for help. I would like to help you as much as I can, but I only have this little window and I'm limited by the power of my writing. I think that a professional can help you a lot. Help you figure out what you want from life, figure out what's stopping you from getting what you want and what you need. Help you sort out what is reasonable to expect from others, and what is not reasonable. Also, T can help you figure out how to negotiate complicated social situations.
I should have seen a T many years ago. I didn't get help for too long, because I was terrified of appearing weak. I was so arrogant as to derive pride from my never having seen a "shrink". So, instead of nipping things in the bud, I allowed some patterns of illogical and unreasonable thoughts to take hold in my mind. And they have mislead me and lied to me and gotten me into a lot of trouble. Sometimes I misled myself into thinking that there was no point to existing. And that's very scary.
> So people tell me do X and Y and I have to do X and Y or else they will get frustrated?
I only want what's best for you, because I care about you.
> What if I'm not ready to do X and Y?
Why aren't you ready to do X and Y?
> I respond to people who post to me. I've been trying to do that. It isn't enough? :-(It's enough for me, sweetie. I hope you feel a little better. I think you're a very special person. Unique, honest, open. Maybe you don't have everything figured out yet. (who does?) I really think you add a lot to Psycho-babble. When you write about your feelings, I am jealous, to tell you the truth. I don't even KNOW what I'm feeling half the time. I feel negative, but I don't know whether it's sadness, regret, anger, grief...? I don't know what it's in response to, and many times I have no idea whether it's appropriate to express negative emotions, or to try to "deal".
Also, I'm only a few years older than you, and so I hear that voice of indecision about what the next big move in your life is going to be. I never even bothered asking. I just fell into a rut, and here I am, having trodden a path, wondering ? WTF am I doing here? I've trained to do what? I don't want to get a job doing X, but I don't know what else is out there. I'm only good at one thing, and that's learning. I'm trying to learn to be a teacher too, but that's complicated. Good for you for asking. Are you getting close to finding an answer?
What I'm trying to say, is that it takes ALL kinds of people. You allow me an opportunity to learn about myself, and for that I am grateful.
> Deneb*
If you're in crisis tonight, please tell your family, or call your doctor, or the emergency room. You are too special Deneb, and I don't want you to get hurt :o(
your friend,
-ll
Posted by TexasChic on July 4, 2006, at 21:06:22
In reply to Re: I'm starting to feel ?, posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 19:44:52
You're okay Deneb. Try not to worry so much what others think of you. Yeah, I know, not easy to do. Just do what you think is right for you.
I think what they were talking about above is more a communication issue than a personal defect. When you read a post, you think about it, and maybe even respond to the person in your head, then by the time you actually write back, you've already moved on to the next part of the conversation. This is very easy to do. Maybe try making it a point to specifically acknowledge what the person said before you write your response. I hope that helps, I can't really explain what I'm trying to say right. Which is exactly what I'm talking about! Its hard to communicate through 'just writing' and actually have it convey what you mean. But don't think this is a personal downfall. Its something we all have trouble with.
Hang in there Deneb. You are a great person.
-T
Posted by Phillipa on July 4, 2006, at 21:46:55
In reply to Re: I'm starting to feel ? » Deneb, posted by TexasChic on July 4, 2006, at 21:06:22
Any Deneb don't forget to use the pill box to fix your meds for the week. And remember to take them. You're a wonderful person. And Buttertart depends on you. Sweet Deneb Love Phillipa
Posted by Glydin on July 4, 2006, at 22:21:52
In reply to Re: I'm starting to feel ?, posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 19:44:52
> So people tell me do X and Y and I have to do X and Y or else they will get frustrated?
>~~~ You don't HAVE to do anything that's not your choice to do. I think it's understandable then anyone posts suggestions to someone over and over and someone continues to post an issue over and over that frustration can happen --- on both sides. I'm speaking in a general sense.
I have felt, in previous situations on this board and elsewhere, very frustrated. Once I come to realization that a situation has come to an impass, I do begin to back off on posting as I feel it really isn't going anywhere for me or for the other party. It's almost as if I felt was being respectful to the choices that a person made but I felt unable to support so, I would simply shut up.
Posted by Racer on July 4, 2006, at 23:09:47
In reply to Re: I'm starting to feel ?, posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 19:44:52
>
> I don't really get why this happens to me, people telling me they are fed up with me. :-(
>
> It's because I don't respond to many posts, isn't it?Actually, Deneb, if you go back and read what EE wrote, she wrote that she feels frustrated when she gives you advice and you don't acknowledge it. Speaking for myself, when I offer you advice and you don't acknowledge me for it, I feel frustrated and rejected. No one is saying that you need to respond to other people's posts. What we are saying -- at least I think this is what EE is saying, and I'm pretty sure it's what I'm saying -- is that your posts get a lot of good support from other people, but it's not endless. There is a point at which some of us just don't want to bother responding anymore, because we feel bad that we think our offerings were ignored.
I think I've mentioned before, I get frustrated when someone seems to have the same problem over and over without putting any effort into changing things so that it doesn't happen again. That isn't directed at anyone here, or even at online interactions necessarily. I get frustrated by it in real life, online, in books, whatever. And it seems as though you do get a lot of good advice on things you could do which would improve your quality of life, things that could improve your coping skills so that you wouldn't feel so much distress, etc.
>
> I don't know what I'm doing that's different from what other people are doing. I really don't. Are people going to be fed up with me until I get a therapist? People keep telling me to get a therapist. What if I don't want to get a T right now? People will be angry?You sound angry, Deneb? Are you angry that someone didn't offer unconditional support? I think EE was trying to tell you how SHE feels, which is a good thing. If you are upset when you read how someone else feels, it might be worth considering why you feel that way.
As for the issue of getting a T, that is up to you. On the other hand, if you post a question, asking for advice on what you can do to feel better, and people tell you that getting a T would help you, that's the only advice that we can offer, when you come right down to it. You need someone In Real Life, and we can't be that.
>
> So people tell me do X and Y and I have to do X and Y or else they will get frustrated?Speaking for myself, no. You don't have to do anything I suggest. On the other hand, I have felt both frustrated and rejected when I've posted advice or suggestions to you, or offered support, and I haven't read any sort of acknowledgement.
>
> I respond to people who post to me. I've been trying to do that. It isn't enough? :-(I think, Deneb, that you have a very common human habit here: I think sometimes you respond to the people who wrote things you wanted to hear, and "forget" to answer people who didn't. That means you're human, but it can also mean the people you don't respond to feel hurt, or frustrated, or rejected, or angry.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree with a lot of what EE wrote to you. I didn't read criticism in it, and I certainly didn't read any sort of rejection in it, but I thought there was a lot of value in her feedback. I've had the same worry regarding people responding to your posts, and for the same reasons. I know there have been times I haven't responded to you, for the reasons EE mentioned.
I don't know what else to say, so I'll stop now.
Posted by Deneb on July 5, 2006, at 0:36:35
In reply to Re: I'm starting to feel better :-), posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 4, 2006, at 19:12:35
OK, EE
You're feeling frustrated and ignored. You feel like I might not care about the advice you give me. You feel like I ignore your advice and the advice of people who I don't agree with. You want to help me out. You want to let me know that you feel this way because you believe some people may stop offering me support if I continue to not listen and acknowledge them.
Is that good enough? How I acknowledged you?
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on July 5, 2006, at 0:48:12
In reply to Re: I'm starting to feel ? » Deneb, posted by llrrrpp on July 4, 2006, at 20:51:15
To be completely honest, I don't really like psychotherapy. I don't like talking about things and trying to figure them out. I'm not very good at figuring out stuff like that.
A lot of the time when my pdoc asks me a question I just come up with what I think is a reasonable answer because I really don't know the answer. I just pretend to know. I repeat things that you guys have said to me. I don't come up with them myself. Maybe I don't have any insight, I dunno.
I feel like therapy is a waste of time. I'm not much of a talking person. I would much rather have very specific goals, and work towards them. Goals like,
Say "Hi" to one person on ___ day.
Call one friend on ___ day at ___ time.
Go to bed at X time.I don't think talking about feelings, relationships and childhood will do anything for me. I also don't particularly like talking about myself. It makes very anxious, it brings out my social anxiety. I do not feel like seeing someone every week and being anxious.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on July 5, 2006, at 0:50:41
In reply to Re: Let me give this a try » Emily Elizabeth, posted by Deneb on July 5, 2006, at 0:36:35
Posted by llrrrpp on July 5, 2006, at 6:14:43
In reply to Re: I don't like seeing a T, posted by Deneb on July 5, 2006, at 0:48:12
> To be completely honest, I don't really like psychotherapy. I don't like talking about things and trying to figure them out. I'm not very good at figuring out stuff like that.
Would you like to get better at figuring this stuff out?
> A lot of the time when my pdoc asks me a question I just come up with what I think is a reasonable answer because I really don't know the answer. I just pretend to know. I repeat things that you guys have said to me. I don't come up with them myself. Maybe I don't have any insight, I dunno.
It's okay to say "I don't know". That was what I said to about 60% of the questions T asked me. Then he might offer suggestions- are you feeling this? "no, actually more like this..." and then we can figure out why I don't know why I'm feeling.
> I feel like therapy is a waste of time. I'm not much of a talking person. I would much rather have very specific goals, and work towards them. Goals like,
> Say "Hi" to one person on ___ day.
> Call one friend on ___ day at ___ time.
> Go to bed at X time.
>
> I don't think talking about feelings, relationships and childhood will do anything for me. I also don't particularly like talking about myself. It makes very anxious, it brings out my social anxiety. I do not feel like seeing someone every week and being anxious.I get really anxious before I see T. It's like going to the dentist. It's also good practice though. Every week I get myself all worked up, freaked out, and yet somehow I emerge unscathed and often stronger. Yeah. it's unpleasant. No pain no gain. Sometimes there are funny moments though, and I like getting advice. I like figuring out that the stuff that happens to me is sometimes under my control (when I felt powerless) or completely out of my grasp (when I was trying to force things to happen a certain way). Sometimes I sit and listen, because I'm not talking. Sometimes I'm mumbling and incoherent. It's really scary to sit near a stranger and confess to having disturbing thoughts, and disturbing behavior. What you must realize though, is that many people have similar thoughts. One of the best ways of getting them out of your head (where they tend to breed!) is to just work up the courage to SAY it. You already have the courage to write about it. The next step is to say it. Your friends and family might not understand. But your T will not judge you and think that you are a bad person. Your T will respect you and will be encouraged that you are willing to share.
Thanks for posting this, Deneb. It really goes a long way towards understanding how you feel about treatment. And it helps me understand what the barriers are towards you getting the best treatment towards improving your quality of life.
your friend,
-ll
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 5, 2006, at 8:41:17
In reply to Re: Let me give this a try » Emily Elizabeth, posted by Deneb on July 5, 2006, at 0:36:35
Your post was fine, except I felt a little hurt by the sarcasm at the end. Please accept my advice in the constructive spirt in which it was intended. It hurts to see you hurt.
Best,
EE
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 5, 2006, at 8:43:18
In reply to Re: I don't like seeing a T, posted by Deneb on July 5, 2006, at 0:48:12
There are CBT therapists who will work with you in the way that you are describing. Very practically focused. You just have to find the right one.
Best,
EE
This is the end of the thread.
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