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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by corafree on May 6, 2006, at 2:50:08
What exactly is ‘Moving On’?
Being ‘mentally ill’ ... I’ve learned a lot about what is and is not acceptable human behavior, and I guess it has made me ‘take a really hard look at myself’.
Now, I've also learned ... I shouldn’t be ‘codependent’, and 'I shouldn’t ‘run away’.
But wait, if we were never loved, would we just innately love ourselves?
But wait, if we were in danger, shouldn’t we run away?
Now that we’ve evaluated ourselves and had numerous therapists evaluate us also, we should sort of be a bit ‘superhuman’ .. don’t you think??? I think we think we should be anyway! Personally, I feel that may be a larger problem than being co-dependent or running away.
I’ve been losing people, places, and things lately. I’ve been stripped down to a skeleton. What do I see in the mirror? Just a human being. I see a human being that is being told to 'move on'. There’s nothing 'superhuman' about me. I’m living on SSD; a ‘financially’ poor human being. Oh, and also physically ill.
I need suggestions about ‘moving on’. How is it that’s done? From what point to you begin? From the moment someone says you should do it? From your inner-child point? From your 'leaving your fam of origin nest’? From your most recent failed relationship? From 'your empty nest’?
How and from where do you ‘move on’, and do it without breaking the rules (co-dependency or running away)?
I’m wondering .. should I set aside these 'rules' and 'be human about it', or am I expecting myself to be 'superhuman’?!
If I could just be human (Somebody give me a break! Me give me a break!) maybe I could at least know from which point to begin 'moving on' from … I think. Then, I might see 'the way' to move on.
My therapist talks of ‘church’ and ‘things men look for in a partner’. I believe she believes one of these would be a ‘moving on’.
What is ‘moving on’ and can it be done w/o $ and in poor health? Help! I see a light ... I see I’m human! That's making progress. I feel guilt and cry, and that doesn't mean I won't make another mistake, feel guilty and cry again in the future. Can't I just let myself be human for more than a few 'cognitive' moments?
Can anyone tell me what they believe ‘moving on’ is? Have you done it? How does it work? Where did you begin and did you know where you were going? Did you arrive in a nice place?
Is this 'moving on thing' about starting over v. aging gracefully? I wonder if it is simply acceptance.
Just a little bit about me; I still twirl around like a wild woman when I hear the song 'Free Bird' and I'm scared of getting old.
(There .. now I've really made this a difficult topic.)
See what I did? (Do you do it too?) I usually make things challenging for myself. I 'think' I'm supposed to be setting an example for others. I see it as my responsibility. Oh, I try to 'turn things over' cognitively, but just running on my own time, it's no longer 'innate' to be 'simply human'. (Did I change the subject?)
Thoughts please, cf
Posted by Racer on May 6, 2006, at 11:00:39
In reply to Help! What does 'moving on' mean to you?, posted by corafree on May 6, 2006, at 2:50:08
My brain isn't quite here yet today -- I sent it out to be washed... No, wait, I'm just having a Not Good Morning, but this is something I'm trying to work out, too, so I do have some thoughts. They're quite muddy, though, and I'm not sure I can express them. If I can't manage here now, I'll try again later.
Anyway, you're right -- "Don't run away" isn't always good advice, and I think some of us get into trouble because we've taken that in so deeply that we don't run away from the wild bears. (Actually, bad example: running away may trigger them, so drop and roll into a fetal position and try to urinate...) But the fact remains, there really are times that we do need to run away, and I think we forget that and try to work things out.
"That happened a long time ago -- MOVE ON!" Uh, the person who says that to me most often is one of the people who did many of the things that I need to move on from. Guess what? Maybe if she hadn't been quite so strident with that advice for so many years, maybe then my mother would have been a little more serious about getting me help when I needed it. Maybe then I would have gotten help when I was 15, 16, and not had to suffer so long before getting help on my own.
And I will move on. But first I have to Get Through It.
Think about it as being like a path, a trail across fields and through woods. When we come to a wall, we have to find a stile to cross over it before we can move on. If you haven't moved on yet, maybe you haven't found a stile yet, or maybe you're afraid to climb it.
Muddled brain, but maybe that isn't too bad? I'll try again later, if I figure out a way to communicate through language...
Posted by Phillipa on May 6, 2006, at 12:31:47
In reply to Re: Help! What does 'moving on' mean to you?, posted by Racer on May 6, 2006, at 11:00:39
Corafree you know I have the same problem think I'm superhuman can't learn to age gracefully. that's the hardest thing in life to do I think. I look around at all the Mother's with little kids and remember what life was like then. And I've had problems since my teens no one has the time for me so they pretented they didn't exist. I need to know the same answer. Love Phillipa
Posted by corafree on May 6, 2006, at 13:44:48
In reply to Re: Help! What does 'moving on' mean to you?, posted by Phillipa on May 6, 2006, at 12:31:47
My mother 'moved on' and/or 'got a life'. She bought it for $300,000. Really.
I'm giving 'getting through IT, over IT, under IT, around IT' some serious thought.
But first, need to pinpoint which IT, it is. There have been more than one its!
If I can identify 'the it' that's really got me stuck, maybe I could begin 'getting through it'.
Sounds like the real way to 'move on' and/or 'get a life'.
But, it happened years ago, sounds like hard work, and I've grown accustomed to 'ignoring it'!
And, I t h i n k 'my it', is 'an it' that I just moved within a mile of!!?? I wonder if I have made a gigantic mistake ... moving so close to 'my it'. (My mother sold my old home because she needed the money, and just bought this one for me to live in. I miss my old home. She built herself a new one. She has a lot of homes. This is a mess. I was trying to be a good daughter and did not object to her using me as her Monopoly piece.) I'm afraid I've really made a very seriously stu*id move (physical move) here!
I need a supertherapist! I had one. She was my DBT therapist and she's back 'there'; back there where I physically moved from. She was trying to help me 'see IT' when we were 'interrupted by my mother's needs'.
Oh Wow .. I've allowed her and others to throw me down over their puddles so they could cross w/o getting their feet wet!
Maybe I need to call the aforementioned therapist soon!
cf
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 6, 2006, at 14:20:30
In reply to Help! What does 'moving on' mean to you?, posted by corafree on May 6, 2006, at 2:50:08
> What exactly is ‘Moving On’?
I'm not sure, but I'll start with a big ole hug....
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{cora}}}}}}}}}}}}> Is this 'moving on thing' about starting over v. aging gracefully? I wonder if it is simply acceptance.
I think acceptance is part of it, but so is the word you put right before that, simple.
I think there are some core things everyone just does, like eating and sleeping, and (hopefully) bathing and such (heh). Moving on, to me, is doing those core things within a different set of other stuff. What do I mean by other stuff? Well, different choices from the world around you. That could be people, places, or things. It's all up to you, budget considered.
I know how big money is, in this scenario. In any scenario, funding is an innate limit. It is what it is. But there are always significant choices one can make in the people/place/thing realm. "Collecting a different set" out of all the available choices is moving on, I guess.
How does acceptance fit into this? Sometimes you just have to accept that you've "worn out" a set of people/places/things, and it's time to collect a different/new set. You have to accept the act of moving on, as a reasonable choice to make. The rest is just details.
Lar
Posted by wildcardII on May 6, 2006, at 14:33:07
In reply to Re: Help! What does 'moving on' mean to you? » corafree, posted by Larry Hoover on May 6, 2006, at 14:20:30
well said Lar! i agree that acceptance is 1st. for me moving on is realizing that my life situation is no longer acceptable to *me*. that i am at a point where i want things to change, for the better and will take tough measures to accomplish this. i have to realize that i am sick and tired of being sick and tired and each person knows when they get to this point, i think. then as scary as it is, we start to change little things and move on to bigger ones. we move on for ourselves when we choose too. not when others want us too...
Posted by madeline on May 6, 2006, at 16:08:54
In reply to Help! What does 'moving on' mean to you?, posted by corafree on May 6, 2006, at 2:50:08
After 6 years and close to $40,000 worth of therapy whatever "it" is that stagnates us, is not one thing.
For me, I realized that I could look under every single stone, understand every single event in my past, and never release "it" from me. "It's" too integrated into me.
I'm learning now to move with it, instead of on from it.
I'm not going to lie, I had a horrible childhood, every single aspect of myself was obliterated by the people that were supposed to love me. For DECADES I was trapped in that obliteration.
It will never go away. It's always going to be with me, but it doesn't have to rule the day any longer. I can make choices, I can evaluate things for what they really are, and not some distorted perception from my childhood. I can trust and love and do all that stuff.
Well, okay, I'm learning - there goes another $40,000 right there I'm sure - but I allow myself to make horrible mistakes.
I don't think anyone can EVER truly move on, but accepting a willingness to carry it with you while you move, that's the important thing.
Just my two cents.
Maddie
Posted by corafree on May 6, 2006, at 17:26:04
In reply to Re: Help! What does 'moving on' mean to you? » corafree, posted by Larry Hoover on May 6, 2006, at 14:20:30
I wish you were .... (oh, you know), but okay (goosebumps) .. (Am I EZ?), you've taken my breath away, and my mind is on an afternoon road trip re: moving on!
Printing and keeping here, what my memory doesn't hold, my hands will.
The state poverty level here for a single person is $714 a month. My SSD is about $50 ABOVE and it throws me out of the ballpark 'w/o a frank'!
I'm concluding this will continue; state poverty level rises a bit, SSD a bit more, every year.
I'm trying to pin-point states where their poverty levels might be ABOVE my SSD.
So far, found list by state of % of peeps BELOW poverty level. (http://www.cbpp.org/2-24-05socsec.htm) D.C. looks to be most highly impoverished and Oregon least. What does that tell me? D.C. would be the choice; right or wrong .. can't connect the dots!? I just look at this and see Social Security providing medication instead of food! Wrong search parameters maybe? I'm using search words like, state & just above poverty level.
I posted a ? and rec'd an answer suggesting Minnesota and Wisconsin (burrr). The person didn't give me any figures.(I need a short 'mind rest' .. mountain time here.)
thankufriends, cf
> > What exactly is ‘Moving On’?
>
> I'm not sure, but I'll start with a big ole hug....
> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{cora}}}}}}}}}}}}
>
> > Is this 'moving on thing' about starting over v. aging gracefully? I wonder if it is simply acceptance.
>
> I think acceptance is part of it, but so is the word you put right before that, simple.
>
> I think there are some core things everyone just does, like eating and sleeping, and (hopefully) bathing and such (heh). Moving on, to me, is doing those core things within a different set of other stuff. What do I mean by other stuff? Well, different choices from the world around you. That could be people, places, or things. It's all up to you, budget considered.
>
> I know how big money is, in this scenario. In any scenario, funding is an innate limit. It is what it is. But there are always significant choices one can make in the people/place/thing realm. "Collecting a different set" out of all the available choices is moving on, I guess.
>
> How does acceptance fit into this? Sometimes you just have to accept that you've "worn out" a set of people/places/things, and it's time to collect a different/new set. You have to accept the act of moving on, as a reasonable choice to make. The rest is just details.
>
> Lar
Posted by corafree on May 6, 2006, at 17:52:52
In reply to Re: Help! What does 'moving on' mean to you? » Larry Hoover, posted by wildcardII on May 6, 2006, at 14:33:07
And Bravo!
It is about being self-confident (It's been such a long time!) in our choices and realizing that WE know what WE want or need for ourselves, and that 'our mother's or whomever', don't.
It may even be a bit about 'being selfish'. That is difficult for me. (Who am I fooling? Myself?)
I 'thought' I knew what I wanted, but w/ all the helter-skelter in my life and others' opinions, I, they, 'WE HAD ME CONVINCED' I couldn't possibly know what was right for me and go in that direction! So, I just followed and here I am, complaining since I got here, in this very secluded condo just a mile from the ex-spouse who cracked my spine like a wishbone (probably my 'IT') in this town I refer to as dysfunction junction.
I'm feeling empowered. But, that's the side of my brain that works the best! The other side is a little slow! What about practicality and details? (Are hostages considered codependents?) This is definitely scary!!!
love,cf
> well said Lar! i agree that acceptance is 1st. for me moving on is realizing that my life situation is no longer acceptable to *me*. that i am at a point where i want things to change, for the better and will take tough measures to accomplish this. i have to realize that i am sick and tired of being sick and tired and each person knows when they get to this point, i think. then as scary as it is, we start to change little things and move on to bigger ones. we move on for ourselves when we choose too. not when others want us too...
Posted by Phillipa on May 6, 2006, at 21:08:23
In reply to Re: Help! What does 'moving on' mean to you? » wildcardII, posted by corafree on May 6, 2006, at 17:52:52
Check out North Carolina. The economy is stable here. And houses all prices. Love Phillipa
Posted by corafree on May 6, 2006, at 21:22:38
In reply to I see it more as moving with instead of on. » corafree, posted by madeline on May 6, 2006, at 16:08:54
Hi. I appreciate what you're saying and won't bother trying to say what you've said; it couldn't have been said better.
I hope you don't think that I've overlooked the seriousness of trying to better one's life w/ my bits of sarcasm. Humor 'lessens the weight' of 'it all' some.
I'm lost here. I can't say what I want to say.
It's happening right here ... right now ... I'm feeling myself being pulled back into that victim feeling.
I can't 'move with' 'this it', w/o help ... and I mean seriously good (and inexpensive) help.
You put some awful things behind you and moved through them. What kind of therapy did you have?
How do I 'move with' the chronic pain I awaken w/ every morning because of the injuries he caused to my body? Did you learn how to do that? Did I ask you already what kind of therapy you received?
I apologize ahead of time if it feels like I'm challenging you. I'm feeling lost here.
really,cf
Posted by madeline on May 7, 2006, at 9:30:15
In reply to Re: I see it more as moving with instead of on. » madeline, posted by corafree on May 6, 2006, at 21:22:38
Cora,
I'm using the old fashioned psychodynamic talk therapy. I go in 1 - 2 times a week. It's tough and it's expensive, but insurance picks up some of it. Does SSD or medicare/medicaid have provisions for therapy? I don't know. But maybe they can help you. Also, some therapists work on sliding scales.
I decided to leverage whatever assets I had, use whatever resources were available to me and squawk and yell until I got into a situation that was workable for me. And that's what it took for me, a willingness to assume some control over my recovery, and my life.
When I was therapist "shopping", there were days when I just wanted to just die. I felt so at the mercy of everything around me. There was a constant series of "No, I can't see you" and "No we can't help you." You know what I did? I asked myself "what would a person who was in control do?" I totally faked it, until I felt it, I still do that sometimes.
Also, one of the biggest parts of my "recovery" has been acknowledging my grief - grieving over what happened to me and everything I should have had but was taken from me through no fault of my own. I think you have to allow yourself that grief and not view it as "wallowing in self-pity". Our lives have not been fair to us. The time we spend grieving is individual to us. But it sounds as though you are trying to move into a phase past the grieving. Are you sure you are ready?
Now, add to that the element of physical pain on top of emotional pain. One of my assaults resulted in a me having a dislocated and broken hip. My hip socket was shattered. I know what chronic pain is and how it can erode your spirit. It is a constant reminder of the badness isn't it?.
Like emotional hurt, physical hurt is always with me. I still walk with a significant limp. But I've learned that physical pain can be brought under our control as well. It helped me to understand, I mean really understand that I was never going to be pain free. I could let that physical pain rule my life, or I could deal with it. First, I established a pharmacological pain control regimen that reduced the pain somewhat. Second, when the pain does come (and it always does), I relax against it. Allow it to wash over me, and focus on breathing. Sometimes I cry, sometimes I don't. But I give myself the time I need to regain control. Then I live my life with the pain.
I think both physical pain and emotional grief can be overcome. And for me, it hinges on recognizing that I am in control now. As my therapist says "I am the active agent in my life now". I still carry all of the badness with me, but I'm not going to let it carry me.
Now, I'm not saying that the path I took is the one you should travel down, obviously, I don't know all of the specifics of your situation. Just whatever you do, don't give up and don't give in to the hopelessness. It's not the only way.
Posted by corafree on May 7, 2006, at 17:36:20
In reply to Re: I see it more as moving with instead of on. » corafree, posted by madeline on May 7, 2006, at 9:30:15
(I'm playing that song 'Rescue Me' in my head right now ... as 'w/o my even participating', my life is being 'messed with' this day. I was nearly killed by my sliding shower door earlier.)
When I moved out here, I tried to make it very clear that I wanted 'insight oriented' or 'psychodynamic' therapy. Guess they just pretended to listen.
I dis'd the first T as she was nowhere near that. I am still w/ the second T, but she is not there either. They've obviously no Ts that do this type of therapy in the county system or they are thinking I'll just go along w/ whatever they throw my way.
I have a Medicare Advantage Plan and am calling an old DBT T tomorrow re: any Ts she may know of 'out here in the boondocks' or maybe 'her' or 'another recommendation'. I have a couple of names as am in a huge metro area but they don't even participate in insurance of any kind.
Yes, I've felt I had a need for this kind of therapy before you said anything about it. But ya' know, I've heard more than a few replies to my inquiries, saying 'it's old school'. Sounds like an excuse to me. Then again, I guess someone could argue against it. Any takers out there? Like said, I've not gone there.
I've never had it. I think I probably would benefit a lot from it (Too many times I feel like I'm in the dark about what's bothering me.) and probably would cry buckets from it. (I hope that it doesn't increase suicidal ideation too much.)
I appreciate your perspective. I think I was sort of even waiting for someone to say what you've said. Maybe you sensed that too.
Fearlesstoafault,cf
Posted by fairywings on May 8, 2006, at 23:56:08
In reply to Re: Help! What does 'moving on' mean to you?, posted by Racer on May 6, 2006, at 11:00:39
OH GEEZE, do we go to the same freaking T, or what?! I don't know about you, but I'm so sick of hearing....."you have to move on", or "when do you move on?".
I don't know either cora, sure wish they'd tell us how. Sorry I don't have anything helpful to add.
fw
Posted by corafree on May 24, 2006, at 18:01:44
In reply to Re: I see it more as moving with instead of on. » corafree, posted by madeline on May 7, 2006, at 9:30:15
Madeline and all:
Anyone know where Inja went? I thought she'd posted on this thread. I thought (I wish I could stop doing that!) it was the last post to this thread. I hadn't read it due to an inexplicable fear (hmm .. supernatural fragile xxxpeeallbutt?), followed by her 'DON'T READ IT' babble advice.
Where did she and the post go? (It was like keeping a pack of cigarettes in your fridg as you begin to quit smoking.) That's what that post was to me. Now it seems to be gone. So, of course, NOW I'm curious and want to read it! Well, maybe. (I'd get that pack of cigs out of the fridg and take at least one out to smoke voraciously!)
Who took 'my option' away? Was it Dr. Bob? Am I confused? Here I go thinking (Somebody slap me!) the world revolves around me!
Am I confused? (Audience throws stuff at me.)
Anyway, I don't like hearing 'move on -or- with, as it regards this it (person/place/thing) because I love 'it' more than any it before it or now. To move on or with it would be to say good-bye and 'we' (the it and I) would disappear. (Can you tell I have a type A personality?)
Maybe I'm unconciously trying to kill myself (I've doubled my smoking habit.) or I'm dying from a broken heart.
Whatever, I'm semi-comfortably wallowing in it.
But, I am off to speak with my therapist right now. (I don't envy her or me!)
Feels like a free fall that never ends, even when you try to open the chute that won't open anyway.
bestwishes,cf
This is the end of the thread.
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