![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by corafree on April 22, 2006, at 15:12:44
. . . at least stay long enough until you are put in a wheelchair or a grave. Otherwise, you may suffer physically and emotionally, alone, the rest of your life.
hindsight, cf
Posted by Phillipa on April 22, 2006, at 17:25:36
In reply to IF YOU'RE GOING TO STAY W/ A SPOUSE THAT BEATS YOU, posted by corafree on April 22, 2006, at 15:12:44
Corafree I have this feeling a lot of people are going to disagree. No one should stay with someone who physically abuses them. Love Phillipa
Posted by corafree on April 22, 2006, at 18:16:41
In reply to Re: IF YOU'RE GOING TO STAY W/ A SPOUSE THAT BEATS YOU » corafree, posted by Phillipa on April 22, 2006, at 17:25:36
That's the message I'm trying to convey.
It's too late for me. I didn't have my first MRI until four years after the divorce. My spinal cord injuries were a result of his throwing me. I had pain during the marriage, but didn't know how bad. Now, for the rest of my life, I have to live w/ chronic pain and no one 'can see' busted discs. Sort of like depression ... 'if you can't see it .. is it really there?
So, as he thrives, I can never run again. I can never wake up or lie down w/o pain again. I cannot even sit and watch TV w/o pain!
This is a warning to anyone being physically abused.
I'm sorry if that's not clear. It's hard to be 'real clear' when you're taking narcotics daily.
bestwishes, cf
Posted by Deneb on April 22, 2006, at 19:32:36
In reply to IF YOU'RE GOING TO STAY W/ A SPOUSE THAT BEATS YOU, posted by corafree on April 22, 2006, at 15:12:44
I just read a true story about a woman's experience with abuse. It affected me deeply.
I feel very fortunate to have never been abused in any way.
I hope all those being abused will come up with the strength to get some help. Abuse can be life threatening.
Deneb*
Posted by Phillipa on April 22, 2006, at 19:52:01
In reply to Re: IF YOU'RE GOING TO STAY W/ A SPOUSE THAT BEATS YOU » corafree, posted by Deneb on April 22, 2006, at 19:32:36
Is is life-threatening look what happened to corafree. Love Phillipa
Posted by inja on April 24, 2006, at 10:35:12
In reply to IF YOU'RE GOING TO STAY W/ A SPOUSE THAT BEATS YOU, posted by corafree on April 22, 2006, at 15:12:44
wow. talk about a bucket of ice water in the face.
at first, i didn't understand. then of course, when i read your post completely, i thought dear God she's telling "my" story!while i suffered abuse at the hands of parents, and 2 husbands with a few others thrown in between, i also had an accident of falling on ice. hard.
for 2 yrs i suffered the pain without reg. meds., and/or surgery. it came down to it's either me or it's a bullet. i am grateful my dr. "caught" that, and sent me to therapy (psych) as well as a host of pain programs, surgery (never again. it made it worse.)physial therapy and a slew of medications until we found the right ones with the right dosage.
i had to "retire" from my job as a state worker as i too, couldn't sit stand or lay down for more than 30 mins. at a time.
and that is the gospel. for 2 years, i got up from bed, all night long, every 30 mins or less. now, with 12 years of reg. narcotic pain meds, psych meds, lots of therapy and the 2nd husband having thrown me out on the street (after beating the livin' bejesus out of me saying he didn't want to take care of a "cripple", he wanted someone to take care of him)(i am actually grateful he did, because i was resigned that i would die at his hands one day. because he DID throw me out, and i was forced to learn to live alone (never lived alone my whole 44 years at the time) and rely upon "inja") i am now in a much better place than i could have ever hoped.
i can now sleep most nights all the way thru, or at least 5 hours, straight thru. i am also hoping that our new mattress will help. we bought a king size one yesterday; its a tempurpedic (i use their pillow and it really helps my cervical problems/that came from being strangled quite frequently)and it will be here wednesday (hurrah!)when it arrives.
yes chronic pain is a b*tch. i hate it, i get resentful sometimes because i cannot do some of the things that i used to do and i am newly married (lucked out on this fella... i figured out what the h*ll i DIDN'T want in a relationship), the weather affects me constantly (i believe most chronic pain folk are a human barometer), amongst many other things.
i don't have an answer. all i can do is share with you what helped me.
besides having the right meds and dosages given to me by a dr. who is NOT afraid of the DEA, i had a huge task in front of me. and i still face it at times, but it IS getting better.
what i had to do was to learn to forgive myself. yeah i know. but i had to forgive myself, i.e. not being strong enough, bad choices, hostage taking rather than healthy relationships, and a bunch of other crap.
there is a little girl inside of me who hasn't trusted me since age 4. i don't care if that sounds hokey. it is what it is, and for me that is THE truth. so, for the past 7 years or so, i have been learning all about her, and working to get HER trust back. because i've been doing that, (and probably will for a while longer) and learned how to live alone (i couldn't even balance my checkbook) she is now trusting me to make some life decisions, for her as well as me.
i had NO idea who to call for phone or cable service. yeah, it was really tough because i not only didn't know how to do that stuff, i was so embarrassed FOR myself if that makes any sense.
cora dear, i can SO relate to what you are saying, and what you are NOT saying. i can empathize completely, and hope that you can get to a "better" place too.
1 tidbit, which you probably already know - when dealing with dr.'s etc, remember that you are the consumer. you are the one that's making that mercedes benz car payment that month (or you and your insurance). ask questions, do research, demand answers. all of that is very very hard when you don't have much self esteem. it took me a long time to STOP apologizing to my dr. for being in pain. (in fact, she's the one who told me to knock it off!)
anyway, i'm long winded as h*ll, but i want you to know i really hear what you are saying. and what i hear a person who is in tremendous pain, physical and emotional.
take care of YOU, cora. like i said, chronic pain is a b*tch. but with the right kinds of support, etc. it IS do-able.
babble me if u like, 'kay? {{{gentle hugz cora}}}
Posted by corafree on April 24, 2006, at 12:32:23
In reply to from 1 chronic pain person to another-long message » corafree, posted by inja on April 24, 2006, at 10:35:12
Inja:
Wow. You've got my attn.
So, it's not so much about forgiving the abusers ... you're saying I need to protect 'the me' that used to be ... I've allowed evil in ... 'the little girl' .. sweet, honest, trusting ... she's the one I need to make amends with? ... this sounds like 'really good therapy' ... all my T said was to go to church! ...
I've not finished a sentence above because I'm trying to let what you've said sink in good and don't want a 'period' to give the impression a thought is understood.
Am I on the right track?
I do have some PTSD w/ some 'borderline' thinking/behavior, that's for sure.
When I feel the pain it brings angry thoughts of the people that hurt me to mind, ... but not me ... (!!!???)
I understand the 'inner child' idea somewhat.
Is my anger more at me, .. than them? Is that what you're saying?
plssharemore(((Inja))), cf
Posted by inja on May 8, 2006, at 11:30:20
In reply to Re: from 1 chronic pain person to another-long message » inja, posted by corafree on April 24, 2006, at 12:32:23
hi cora,
i sent you a babble responding to your babble. hope you get it.i'm happy to share more if you like, although i have no idea what sort of reaction you or others may have.
what i can say mostly, and with assurance, is that what i wrote was essentially a composite of 7+ yrs of therapy. if my T told me to go to church to learn about forgiveness, i'm sorry dear friend.... i would have told my T to shove it where the sun doesn't shine. i have learned how to "stand up" for myself with my T and other doctors, by simply reminding myself that I am the patient, or the "consumer" of medical treatments.
i don't have it "in me" to forgive my abusers, date rape, husbands, lovers, parents, etc. i never could understand why I was the ONE who HAD to do the forgiving. B.S. I am the ONE who has to work hard to make reparations and earn trust of the little girl inside me as she never had a voice. NEVER. but as an adult, i DO. and boy howdy, am i using it!!
pls don't get the wrong impression, though. i am not "strong" like that every day. it would be impossible for me. too much energy expended that i need to reserve just for me and my CP, on a day to day basis. but when i have good days (emotionally speaking), and i am getting more as i get older, i can fight like the dickens for my rights, without hurting self or others.
i am not a therapist, but you asked if i thought you were on the right track.... seems like it to me. just acknowledging it, feeling it in your heart, "feeling it out" in your mind, is a definite sign to me (just a another CP gal, no medical background except being a patient and a "patsy") that you are indeed on the right track.
for me, half the battle is admitting to myself, taking the blinders off or rose colored glasses as well, that if i am to heal; really REALLY heal on the inside, then i need to "protect the me that used to be". (OH WAIT!! i know now what you asked me in your babble if "i wrote it", and i believe you are referring to "Bent but not Broken", right? well, yeah, that was me all right...)
and the "me that used to be" is still something that i uncover bit by bit, everyday. be it the wee one in me, or the adult, etc.
(i too have severe PTSD and am borderline with a few other little tasty treats thrown in for good measure)
"When I feel the pain it brings angry thoughts of the people that hurt me to mind, ... but not me ... (!!!???)" - when i get to thinking about all that has been done, to and against me, i too used to get so damned angry with those who hurt me. however, i learned that in the long run, i am the only one it hurts when i feel this way, and "stay there" too long in my mind. they walked away. i got stuck with this sh*t. not them so...i do try not to give it (memories, thoughts, etc) too much energy. i figure that if i get SO angry, then i am denying myself the energy i NEED for myself, and for some days its' just to get thru the day, savvy? and not do something stupid.
cf, i don't know if your anger is more at yourself than "them". it was true for me however. i couldn't believe, that as an adult, i just kept "handing myself over" to people that were untrustworthy, abusive (in many different forms), etc. to me. hence therapy. as well, when i started this process it was truly painful. very much so. but i am glad that i have a T that is quite understanding. i even yell at him if i don't feel like he's "hearing me". LOL... one time i yelled so loud in his office, and got up, went out the door and slammed it so HARD!! but being the good T that he is, he always made it "safe" for me to come back and talk about "it". and to date, he has sincerely apologized.
cf, i don't know if i answered your question or not, but i would be honored if if we continued to e each other, and become web friends. someone who is safe and won't "take you for a ride". after reading and respinding to your babble, i feel like we have so much in common! and it's great to not feel so damned alone in all of this.
i feel very VERY welcome here, and have not had (to the date of this message) an unpleasant experience where someone told me to shove it where the sun don't shine, that i didn't matter, etc.
fact is, i feel very much like i MATTER here at Psych.
talk about babble! seems that's what i'm doing right now! LOL.... anyway, i gotta roll while i'm feeling ok. gotta get some groceries in the house. my husband has been so wonderful picking up all the slack, including putting in a vegetable garden on top of all my "duties" (i hate that word) at home because i am physically unable to. i lucked out on this one... *smile*
{{{gentle hugz}}}
"inja"Inja:
>
> Wow. You've got my attn.
>
> So, it's not so much about forgiving the abusers ... you're saying I need to protect 'the me' that used to be ... I've allowed evil in ... 'the little girl' .. sweet, honest, trusting ... she's the one I need to make amends with? ... this sounds like 'really good therapy' ... all my T said was to go to church! ...
>
> I've not finished a sentence above because I'm trying to let what you've said sink in good and don't want a 'period' to give the impression a thought is understood.
>
> Am I on the right track?
>
> I do have some PTSD w/ some 'borderline' thinking/behavior, that's for sure.
>
> When I feel the pain it brings angry thoughts of the people that hurt me to mind, ... but not me ... (!!!???)
>
> I understand the 'inner child' idea somewhat.
>
> Is my anger more at me, .. than them? Is that what you're saying?
>
> plssharemore(((Inja))), cf
>
>
Posted by corafree on May 8, 2006, at 19:07:52
In reply to response to cf w/another-long message, posted by inja on May 8, 2006, at 11:30:20
Yes, I'm devastated, and they're having a 'hayday'!
How did you detach? I do want you to share some of what you've learned ... but right now, I'm shivering in the closet (Not literally .. I save that for a particular 'corner' in the bedroom!)
Someone told me once there are some things that we are not expected to have to forgive ... that we can use our own judgment and if we feel very strongly that it is beyond forgivable, that we do not have to forgive ... I mean morally, supernaturally, religiously, or however whomever believes.
My ex-abusive-husband raped me once after our divorce. He thought that when I moved out here by him, he'd get to 'visit' (ya' know .. visit visit) me. Since he learned otherwise, he's been throwing verbal darts my way and now two of my three children stand beside him. My children are my life.
They don't get it. One of them, he physically (not sexually) abused. Maybe she feels his 'putting a roof over her head' at this time (long story) is saying 'he is sorry' and that is why she's forgotten I exist. He is a manipulating, everybody's best friend, perfect, guy! (No.) My daughter knows better, but still she is dis'ing me. Can't she see he never ever 'did' or 'said' sorry' to me, and how unimportant she and my son are causing me to feel. I'm tired of calling them and begging them to see me.
Victim ... people tell me to take that stamp off my forehead ... that it shows.
But wait, I was a victim within the marriage and was recently outside the marriage, to his mastery of put-downs.
I had a good childhood Inga ... I didn't have to be tough ... that part is reversed w/ us isn't it???
Is that why I can't innately 'be tough' now, ya' think?
My father loved me. There may have been a problem w/ my mother. But, I was just a sweetheart. I remember me. I disappeared when my heart was broken 30yrs ago. I had lots of nice friends. I wish I could be her. She wasn't a snob either; she just 'loved and needed people' and it was reciprocated.
I like that you've shared your point of view re: forgiveness.
Valium is calming me now, and will lie down and think about self-esteem.
tks&love, cf
Posted by inja on May 11, 2006, at 11:17:36
In reply to Re: response to cf w/another-long message » inja, posted by corafree on May 8, 2006, at 19:07:52
****(seriously, the content and length of this response may trigger you or someone, so please beware. there is a lot of sick stuff in this response.)****
oh, hon... w/out sounding patronizing or anything of that nature, i TRULY understand where you're "at", in this moment. i too shivered many a time, in the corner, the closet, under the bed, or just even in my plain ol’ skin. God, what a horrific feeling of helplessness and hopelessness that is (for me).
this is quite long, so “pack a lunch” for this one if you like. you may need it! *smiling*
detach.... interesting thing for me to ponder, actually. i believe that i had to learn (bolded and underlined) just how to detach. it was always easy for me to attach myself to someone, mostly people who hurt me in one form or another. i attached to them as they were "familiar" to me. at least i knew what was coming, for the most part. that was familiar. and the familiarity, believe it or not, was comforting. i didn't have to "step outside the box". no matter how sick i was (mentally and otherwise), i at least felt comforted by the familiar sh*t.
but something really important happened to me, most especially when i needed it the most. i went to a spiritual retreat, based on the 11th step of the A.A. program (“sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out”) about 15+ yrs ago. i met a nun there, Sister Maurice Doody (Dominican Nun from ‘da’ Bronx). I spent quite a bit of time with her as i was in a serious “spiritual” crisis. Taking AA, so very literally at that time, i could not understand WHY I had to forgive, etc. in speaking with Sister, after telling her everything, she explained to me that as a Catholic nun, and a recovering alcoholic, that there are indeed some things in life that are UNFORGIVEABLE.
i was trying so hard to forgive my father, yet i could not. i felt like a failure. but as Sister explained, the bottom line is that what HE did (and others in my life) was totally unacceptable and unforgiving. “you do not molest your children, NOR do you get them pregnant at age 14 and have an abortion (abortion wasn’t the issue. she was quietly pro-choice, with particular regard to incest) and expect forgiveness from that child”. once she spoke to me and explained these things, and even held me in her arms while i cried (wailed was more like it), she comforted me by reasserting that i wasn’t bad because i could not forgive. i was human. and as far as she was concerned, no one with higher authority (i.e. God) would consider me bad because of the things that happened to me.
please keep in mind one thing. i am not religious. i am not a practicing Catholic or any other divination. but I am a spiritual person. i do believe in a higher power, however. once i actually grasped this concept, i got “better”. i started to (slowly) get strong, stand up for myself, speak back, and started to take care of myself. granted, i had many MANY stumbles along the way, including back sliding as in continuing to allow people in my life to harm me. hell, i think i “signed up” for some of it. and my understanding today of that is because it was familiar. i know I keep coming back to that word, but it is a powerful word to me.
again, familiar was safe. i knew what to expect, so to speak. and to step out of that box was some kinda scary sh*t, let me tell ya. BUT. once I practiced it and practiced it (with much help from my T), it got a bit easier.
i can SO relate with the ex-husband crap too. here’s my story on an incident, similar to yours. my mom died, and i was devastated. we were very close in a seriously co-dependent way. yes, she was ill but she had many years to go before it (the illness) would have killed her. my father took it upon himself to kill her. and kill her he did. he smothered her with a pillow, cf. he finally admitted it to me while in a drunken stupor. that aside, (i don’t mean to sound callous, it’s just that i’m not (and can’t) relating to that at the moment) i cried every day for a few weeks. my husband, at the time said “FOR GAWD’S SAKE. SHE’S WORM BAIT. CALL YOUR DOCTOR AND GET SOME PILLS”. deep breath, ok…….. so i did. dr. gave me Xanax. LOVED IT. totally numbed me to the world that I was living in, meaning while i was taking the Xanax everything was cloudy and had the feeling of acceptability. one serious problem though. i got hooked, and i got hooked BAD. i have an addictive personality and Xanax became my drug of choice. (NOT preaching here. it works for a lot of folks who have no problem with it. i myself, for anxiety, take Klonopin. it works for me and i’m not addicted to it.) Xanax made my whole world “livable” and “do-able” .
so. the day came (approx. 11 months later) when the doctor would no longer give me a scrip. having worked for dr.’s most of my life (with the exception of being a state employee before i retired) i stole 2 scrip pads. i knew how to write ‘em, call them in, etc., and i did just that. by the time it was all over and done with, i was eating over 750 (yes, 750. it’s not a typo) milligrams of Xanax a WEEK, just to maintain. not getting high or even fuzzy anymore. just feeding the monkey. by all rights, i should be dead. it did a lot of damage in many ways, but i am happy to say that THAT is all over with. that was over many yrs. ago.
back to husband #2. when i started to go cold turkey (“YOU CANNOT go the hospital!! what the f*** would people think??? you stupid c-word, how in hell could you let yourself get hooked???”), things got really ugly. he locked me down cellar with 2 buckets. one for vomit and one for the other necessities. the children went to live with their bio father for about 4 weeks during this time, knowing nothing about mama being “sick”. also during this time, he raped and sodomized me almost every night while I was down cellar. i was to be punished, and this was how he was going to punish me. that’s what he said word for word. “you KNOW i don’t like doing this, “inja”, but you MUST be punished so that you’ll never do it again!! you need to LEARN!!”
suffice it to say that about 8+ years later (what the hell took me so long???) we went our separate ways. i also had 3 serious nervous/mental breakdowns and had to be hospitalized, within a time frame of 18 months.
i also understand the devastation that is brought on when parents, ex’s, in-laws use children as”pawns”. not just devastating to us, but mostly them. children are the innocents here, and should not be used as such. the only thing that i can tell you cora, was that during that time i chose to take the “high road”, meaning that i would not stoop to bad mouthing my ex and their families as I knew my children were already getting an earful from them about me. at some point they started to ask me questions as in “did you really do this, mum?”, and related questions. i answered them as truthfully as i could, taking their age into consideration. i refused to speak ill of their father, as i knew he was doing enough damage for a whole fleet.
yeah, it was painful and hard as hell to just sit there and “take it” with out retribution. BUT, there came a time when they got older and started to piece things together and realized who was telling the truth.
i “lost” my children for a few years (they being in a situation where they felt they couldn’t trust me, etc.) and it about killed me. but i survived and so did they. once things came together (as they came more adult like in mind and emotion), so did we. we talked, we shared, i made amends for my part, and things sort of worked themselves out and mended over time. i am so grateful to be able to say that i have a close loving relationship with my daughter. my son is another matter (to be explained at a later date).
your ex sounds so much like an amalgam of the men in my life, cora. scary sh*t.
i don’t know the ages of your children (mine are 30 and 29, son 1st, daughter 2nd), but if they are in their teens, dis’ing you is a national pastime for our youth of today (IMHO). no it’s NOT right, but it happens.
hon, i gotta tell you something straight up and it’s only from my experience. ONLY mine, ok?
i did the same things, calling and begging my children to talk to me, to visit, “can i come visit”, etc. and even worse. all it did, so they tell me now (and earlier actually), is that i seemed so needy that it frightened them. (needy was the “bug” that the ex put in their ear, telling them that i would suck them dry emotionally and mentally). hon, try to not call them “begging” them to come see you. it only makes YOU feel worse, rejected, and seriously unhappy, and they may feel pressured which might push them more apart from you.
i know, i know. easier to say than do. but i did it too. i just took it one day at a time so to speak. in fact, what I did was buy 2 journals. (y’know – the black and white marbled cover notebooks we used in school?). every time i hurt, or felt so g.d. awful and how unfair things seem to be, i wrote my feelings down about it. one was for my daughter, and the other is for my son. it took me awhile to get real honest with myself and put it in a journal, but once i did, my healing started to begin. the healing of learning how to forgive myself, for a whole host of things. a problem that occurred for me in this was to find a safe hiding place for my journals, where my husband (at that time) couldn’t find it. but i did find a safe space for it. and for a while, i felt like it was my lifeline.
please understand that i am only relating my experiences to you (and others i suppose). just one human speaking with another. my journaling helped me to understand a phrase Dr. Phil has said time and time again, “you cannot change what you do not acknowledge”. that statement means so many different things for so many people. for “inja” it meant to take a hard and long, yet loving look inside of myself to see what i needed to change to make myself happy. after much time I realized that i had to stop looking towards others for love and validation. then the hardest part, cora. i had to learn to love and accept myself as i am. and to this day, i still struggle. i struggle with not only that, but truth, trust (in myself and others) and a few other things as well. but i keep practicing. in AA they say “fake it till you make it”. and that’s what I do, when I feel my “balls are to the wall”.
cora, no. they cannot “see” how devastating this is to you. at least not yet. another thing i learned along the way was that NO ONE can MAKE (bolded and underlined) me “feel” anything. it’s that i allow them to make me “feel” one way or another. so hard for me to explain that one, but it’s something i had to learn (the hard way of course) and accept. i had to accept that i am in control of “my boat”, and if someone engenders a feeling (good or bad) toward me, it is up to me to take it or leave it. that being said, it took me many years in therapy to learn this one (and quite a few others), and harder yet, put it into action.
ah yes. the “victim stamp” on our foreheads. someone told me the same thing. i tried to start to look at things from a different perspective to remove that stamp on my forehead. i don’t remember how or why, but somewhere down the line, i no longer had that stamp. instead, i became a (bolded) SURVIVOR. i can’t remember exactly how or when the “stamp dried up and fell off” as i have had a few strokes and some parts of my memories are gone.
you ask “is that why i can't innately 'be tough' now, ya' think?” i don’t know, really. but your thoughts on the matter “i had a good childhood inja ... i didn't have to be tough ... “ is quite introspective, honest and profound. and frankly, it sounds like you may have “hit a corner on piece of that nickel” by just making that statement. i am not a T but it sounds quite feasible to me, the reasoning i mean.
‘kay…. one last identifier that i have with you. my heart too was broken. at age 3. i was “daddy’s little girl” in every sense of the matter. but then daddy betrayed me. time and time again. thus, the man that i loved and adored was ripped from me forever. and yes, it still hurts, makes me sad, mad, depressed, all that crap. but now i am “dealing” right now, and it’s getting better.
due to a variety of things, i still feel at times feel suicidal, even though my life today is something I only dreamed of. i am blessed, and i try to bear that in mind as well.
i am sorry this is so long, but when i started to type, it just all kept flowing out. i couldn’t stop the “dam” from bursting. i am not embarrassed or ashamed by my response to you because, for today, my life HAS to be an open book. no secrets. secrets make me sick (or sicker than I already am! :>} ) even here on psycho babble for the “whole world to see”.
feel free to babble me personally if you like. i feel, as you said earlier, a “kinship” with you.
take gentle loving care of yourself, cora dear. i am sending you “gentle hugz” from Maine.
love,
“inja”
This is the end of the thread.
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