![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 91. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on March 29, 2006, at 20:52:01
...I gave Dr. Bob a hug a real life? I don't know if I actually have the guts to do that in real life, but I can imagine it right now. I know it would be socially inappropriate, but maybe my love will override that.
I wouldn't expect him to hug me back. I hope it wouldn't scare him. I'm not a stalker or anything and I would never hurt him. It's just such an opportunity, you know, to meet him in person...that maybe I wouldn't be able to resist. I know I've written that I would never hug him and in all likelihood, I wouldn't hug him, but I'm really seeing it in my mind right now.
How would Dr. Bob react if I did give him a quick hug?
I'm not a person who's into hugging, but I would like to hug Dr. Bob. I don't even like hugging my family and friends. I'm probably scaring him right now right? I wonder what he thinks of my love for him? I've never felt anything like this before, this love I feel for Bob. It's a nice feeling.
I love Bob. {{{{{{Bob}}}}}}}
Deneb*
Posted by gabbi~1 on March 29, 2006, at 21:31:57
In reply to Would it be harassment if..., posted by Deneb on March 29, 2006, at 20:52:01
Would it matter how he felt?
Seriously
He did very politely turn down the idea of a scarf, but you are going ahead with it despite that.
Would do what *you* want to do again, even if he said it would make him feel uncomfortable?
Posted by Deneb on March 29, 2006, at 22:06:04
In reply to Re: Would it be harassment if... » Deneb, posted by gabbi~1 on March 29, 2006, at 21:31:57
:-(
I think I rationalized the scarf thing because of what AuntieMel and Tamar told me. They said Dr. Bob would probably accept something I made him.
I feel bad now if I've made him feel uncomfortable. :-(
I don't know what to do anymore. The scarf thing makes me so happy. Is it selfish to want to give it to him even though he said he didn't want a gift?
:-(
sigh.
Sad Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on March 29, 2006, at 22:31:40
In reply to Re: Would it be harassment if... » gabbi~1, posted by Deneb on March 29, 2006, at 22:06:04
This is really bringing me down. I can't handle this. I have to make my scarf for Bob.
I don't expect anything from him. I know Dr. Bob doesn't love me. I know and I don't care about that.
I don't care if he goes home and dumps the scarf in the trash, as long as he doesn't tell me that and pretends to accept it.
Deneb*
Posted by Phillipa on March 29, 2006, at 23:12:52
In reply to Re: Would it be harassment if..., posted by Deneb on March 29, 2006, at 22:31:40
I'm sure Dr. Bob would love a scarf. Love phillipa
Posted by Deneb on March 30, 2006, at 0:05:21
In reply to Re: Would it be harassment if... » Deneb, posted by Phillipa on March 29, 2006, at 23:12:52
I really want Dr. Bob to accept the scarf I'm making for him. But, if Dr. Bob absolutely cannot accept my gift, I hope that he would accept the scarf for a day or two before giving it back to me. I hope he accepts it though, I really really hope. I put a lot of love into it. Maybe he can give it to his wife if he doesn't want it. The love shouldn't be wasted.
Deneb*
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on March 30, 2006, at 0:53:03
In reply to The scarf, posted by Deneb on March 30, 2006, at 0:05:21
Scarves and hugs aside, I think that the real good that can come from this situation is a better understanding of yourself and your attachments. I know that you say that your pdoc is your T, and so I have my fingers crossed that this means that you see her for at least 50 minutes each week. (If not, pretty please see if you can do this). This hugs/scarf issue is something that you need to dissect and process in a therapy setting. I know that you have some intense positive feelings for Bob--that is absolutely OKAY. However, I am confident that these feelings are complex and relate to your life as a whole. Understanding that can lead to better IRL relationships and improved mental health.
You still have time before you meet Bob--you don't need to decide this right now. Keep knitting and you can decide abt what to do with the scarf later.
Best,
EE
Posted by Tamar on March 30, 2006, at 7:24:34
In reply to The scarf, posted by Deneb on March 30, 2006, at 0:05:21
Hi Deneb,
I think perhaps I may have replied to your question about the scarf without having seen that Dr Bob had already said somethnig about it. I can't remember exactly what he said, but I'm pretty sure I hadn't seen it when I replied to you. Sorry if I caused confusion.
> I put a lot of love into it. Maybe he can give it to his wife if he doesn't want it. The love shouldn't be wasted.
Your love for Dr Bob will never be wasted. The scarf may be a symbol of your love, and something which you invest with a great deal of importance. And that's very understandable.
But it sounds to me as if you think of him declining the scarf and imagine that he's also rejecting your love for him. And perhaps that’s where the scarf symbolism isn't as helpful as it could be. After all, if he really did accept it and then disposed of it without your knowledge, then that would be an actual rejection of your love. But if he declined to accept it while still indicating that he values you and your feelings, perhaps that’s better. Perhaps it would indicate that your love is important to him without needing to be symbolised in a scarf. After all, scarves wear out but love lasts and lasts. You don’t need to prove you love him by giving him something; it’s enough that you love him, and I’m pretty sure he won’t reject your feelings of love.
Just my two cents,
Tamar
Posted by Poet on March 30, 2006, at 9:12:09
In reply to Would it be harassment if..., posted by Deneb on March 29, 2006, at 20:52:01
Hi Deneb,
I think Emmy Elizabeth had some very good thoughts on your feelings for Dr. Bob. I can't think of much to add except that if you do offer Dr. Bob the scarf in Toronto,and he doesn't accept it, please give it to a homeless shelter or another organization that will have someone in the cold of winter who will need and feel the love you put into it. It shouldn't be thrown out, it should be worn.
Poet
Posted by Deneb on March 30, 2006, at 15:32:23
In reply to Re: The scarf, posted by Emily Elizabeth on March 30, 2006, at 0:53:03
> Scarves and hugs aside, I think that the real good that can come from this situation is a better understanding of yourself and your attachments.
I don't usually attach to people. That is why I don't have any close friends. This Bob attachment is new. I don't know why I'm attached to Bob, and I'm not sure I would figure it out in therapy. Even if I did, I'm not sure it would change anything.
>I know that you say that your pdoc is your T, and so I have my fingers crossed that this means that you see her for at least 50 minutes each week. (If not, pretty please see if you can do this).
I see her once every 2 weeks for about 40 mins. I think it's enough. She told me to see her once every 2 weeks.
> This hugs/scarf issue is something that you need to dissect and process in a therapy setting.
I'll talk to my pdoc about wanting to hug Bob next time. I'll see what she says about this.
> I know that you have some intense positive feelings for Bob--that is absolutely OKAY.
I'm glad you think it's okay. :-)
> However, I am confident that these feelings are complex and relate to your life as a whole.
I think I love Bob because he doesn't really interact with me. I think I love Bob because he's a safe person to love. I would get scared and back away if he started to act like a real friend.
> You still have time before you meet Bob--you don't need to decide this right now. Keep knitting and you can decide abt what to do with the scarf later.
Will do. :-) I think I'll give him the scarf. If he reads my posts, he won't be surprised.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on March 30, 2006, at 15:49:37
In reply to Scarves and love » Deneb, posted by Tamar on March 30, 2006, at 7:24:34
> Hi Deneb,
>
> I think perhaps I may have replied to your question about the scarf without having seen that Dr Bob had already said somethnig about it. I can't remember exactly what he said, but I'm pretty sure I hadn't seen it when I replied to you. Sorry if I caused confusion.I wrote:
Is it okay to give Dr. Bob a gift at BabbleFest?
Well, is it?It's not going to be an expensive gift.
Do you think he will accept it? Will I make a fool of myself if he doesn't?
I'm in the middle of making the gift happen right now.
Deneb
Then Dr. Bob wrote:
Thanks, it's nice of you to think of me, but I'd rather that time and energy went into making it a fun party for everyone.
Bob
Making the scarf won't take away time from making the party fun for everyone. I don't think Dr. Bob will mind that much if I give him a scarf I made. AuntieMel told me about the same thing. It'll make me so very happy if he'll just accept it. If I were him, I would just accept it. I don't expect anything from him. I just want to give him something I made.
> After all, if he really did accept it and then disposed of it without your knowledge, then that would be an actual rejection of your love. But if he declined to accept it while still indicating that he values you and your feelings, perhaps that’s better. Perhaps it would indicate that your love is important to him without needing to be symbolised in a scarf.
Hmmm...you're right. I would much rather Dr. Bob be truthful and decline my scarf rather than dump it in the trash.
>I’m pretty sure he won’t reject your feelings of love.
I hope so. He doesn't have to accept my love, but as long as he doesn't actively reject them, I shouldn't be upset.
Deneb*
Posted by JenStar on March 30, 2006, at 16:41:30
In reply to Would it be harassment if..., posted by Deneb on March 29, 2006, at 20:52:01
hi Deneb,
I think it's important to respect people's privacy and pesonal space. Giving gifts and getting too close physically can make someone uncomfortable, sometimes.
JenStar
Posted by Deneb on March 30, 2006, at 17:48:04
In reply to Re: Would it be harassment if... » Deneb, posted by JenStar on March 30, 2006, at 16:41:30
> hi Deneb,
>
> I think it's important to respect people's privacy and pesonal space. Giving gifts and getting too close physically can make someone uncomfortable, sometimes.
>
> JenStarI think there's only about a 5% chance that I would hug Dr. Bob. I'm pretty inhibited in real life. I've actually never initiated a hug before in my life. I think there's a 75% chance of me giving Dr. Bob the scarf right now. I'm putting myself in his shoes and I don't think I would be that uncomfortable accepting a small gift.
I do agree that it's important to respect a person's personal space.
Deneb*
Posted by Dinah on March 30, 2006, at 18:07:33
In reply to Re: Would it be harassment if... » JenStar, posted by Deneb on March 30, 2006, at 17:48:04
That's pretty much what my mother says.
She puts herself in other people's shoes.
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on March 30, 2006, at 23:32:15
In reply to Re: The scarf » Emily Elizabeth, posted by Deneb on March 30, 2006, at 15:32:23
Just as a point of comparison, I see my pdoc for 30 minutes every 2-3 weeks AND I see my T for 50 minutes 2x/week. I'm not super-crazy or anything, but dealing w/ problems like these takes time. 80 minutes per month is very little. I'm just encouraging you to take your problems seriously and to get yourself adequate treatment.
For the record, I do think your problems could be addressed in therapy and doing so would improve your quality of life. Sometimes I worry that you are saying you are unhappy, but you also seem hesitant to change things in your life to improve things. I won't keep trying to convince you, but every now and then I feel like I just have to say something about it.
Best,
EE
> > Scarves and hugs aside, I think that the real good that can come from this situation is a better understanding of yourself and your attachments.
>
> I don't usually attach to people. That is why I don't have any close friends. This Bob attachment is new. I don't know why I'm attached to Bob, and I'm not sure I would figure it out in therapy. Even if I did, I'm not sure it would change anything.
>
> >I know that you say that your pdoc is your T, and so I have my fingers crossed that this means that you see her for at least 50 minutes each week. (If not, pretty please see if you can do this).
>
> I see her once every 2 weeks for about 40 mins. I think it's enough. She told me to see her once every 2 weeks.
>
> > This hugs/scarf issue is something that you need to dissect and process in a therapy setting.
>
> I'll talk to my pdoc about wanting to hug Bob next time. I'll see what she says about this.
>
> > I know that you have some intense positive feelings for Bob--that is absolutely OKAY.
>
> I'm glad you think it's okay. :-)
>
> > However, I am confident that these feelings are complex and relate to your life as a whole.
>
> I think I love Bob because he doesn't really interact with me. I think I love Bob because he's a safe person to love. I would get scared and back away if he started to act like a real friend.
>
> > You still have time before you meet Bob--you don't need to decide this right now. Keep knitting and you can decide abt what to do with the scarf later.
>
> Will do. :-) I think I'll give him the scarf. If he reads my posts, he won't be surprised.
>
> Deneb*
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2006, at 1:06:01
In reply to Re: Would it be harassment if... » Deneb, posted by Poet on March 30, 2006, at 9:12:09
> if you do offer Dr. Bob the scarf in Toronto,and he doesn't accept it, please give it to a homeless shelter or another organization that will have someone in the cold of winter who will need and feel the love you put into it.
Deneb, I really do appreciate the love you've put into that scarf, but Poet is right, I'd rather it went to someone who'd be cold without it. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 15:41:02
In reply to Re: the cold of winter » Deneb, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2006, at 1:06:01
> Deneb, I really do appreciate the love you've put into that scarf, but Poet is right, I'd rather it went to someone who'd be cold without it. Thanks,
>
> BobOkay Dr. Bob, I'll do whatever makes you happy. I'll give the scarf to the homeless on your behalf. Thanks for appreciating the love. :-)
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 17:11:01
In reply to Re: the cold of winter » Dr. Bob, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 15:41:02
I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf? Maybe Dr. Bob already has a lot of scarves and he doesn't need another one. Maybe Dr. Bob doesn't wear scarves, maybe it's not that cold in the winter in Chicago.
Hmmmm...anyone else have any ideas? What's the most likely reason?
Deneb*
Posted by Dinah on April 4, 2006, at 17:19:53
In reply to I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 17:11:01
I think you should reread special k's post about it. She seemed to have good insight.
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 18:11:13
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf » Deneb, posted by Dinah on April 4, 2006, at 17:19:53
I found what special k wrote to me:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060317/msgs/626960.html
Special K wrote:
> I think he made it pretty clear that he didn't really want you to do the scarf thing... He would have preferred you to have spent your time doing something nice for everyone who was going to the party.
>
> But you kind of disregarded that...
>
> WHich is okay I guess...
>
> But the cost / possible cost to that...
>
> Is that at times you say it is a 'small gift'
> Then at times you say how much love you are putting into it which makes it actually a gift that is extremely laden with symbolism
> Then you say you hope he takes it
> (I mean if he doesn't then that will be a symbol for you of him rejecting your love)
> But you say better for him to not take it than to throw it away (which you would take as a symbol for him rejecting your love)
>
> And so what is he supposed to to?
>
> Take it.
>
> But he has already said...
>
> I don't know.
>
>
> I think you should talk to your t about this...
>
> I think...
>
> And maybe it is just me...
>
> But I think maybe he has become... Something along the lines of... How you might have viewed your father when you were a little kid?http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060317/msgs/627211.html
> > It's only laden with symbolism for me. I just want Bob to see it as a scarf.
>
> though it is probably going to be a little hard for him to do that after reading on the boards just how much symbolism you are loading into it...
>
> therapists have to think about this when it comes to gifts too... some therapists have a (black and white) rule about not accepting gifts period. others will under certain circumstances. etc.
>
> i guess the main reason i wanted to say this stuff is because... he might have a policy on not accepting gifts... which has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH HIM REJECTING YOUR LOVE. thats all i'm getting at.. he said he didn't really want you to do that... he could be a bit awkward if you try and give it to him (especially since he does indeed appreciate what it symbolises) and then he has to decide whether to go with what he said already (and he does seem to value consistency as do you) only the trouble is you might get all upset and feel really rejected... or he could just take it... in which case what... you will feel all happy... and be talking about how you have given him a gift to symbolise your love... and then what? other posters get the presents rolling in?
>
> i don't know... i don't know what he is supposed to to. and i don't understnad how this can come to anything good...
>
> > > I think you should talk to your t about this...
>
> > I'll try to remember to bring it up.
>
> mmm. might be worth thinking whether it is worth trying to give it to him... i guess i'd be thinking bout that. don't get me wrong... enjoy making it. really. think of him as you are making it. whatever. but do it for you and enjoy it for you.
>
> i dunno. maybe i'm just harming.
>
> i'm sorry if i'm hurting.
>
> hope others can jump in
>
> > > But I think maybe he has become... Something along the lines of... How you might have viewed your father when you were a little kid?
>
> > Maybe, I don't know.
>
> well i guess you are the only one who would know. how did you feel about your father when you were a little kid? do you remember?Sorry I forgot to answer special k's question. My Dad and I have never been close. We don't really talk to each other. He shows his love by doing things like drive me places. My Dad was never around when I was little. He had to work all the time. I didn't really feel much for my Dad when I was little. I never really got attached to him.
Could it be that I see Dr. Bob like a father? He protects me from incivility and punishes me when I'm misbehaving. I never really got that from my parents. I rarely felt protected by my parents and they never punished me. My Mom used to ignore me when I was misbehaving. Dr. Bob ignores me too. I think maybe Dr. Bob is old enough to be my father. I don't think that helps. Also, Dr. Bob has a Chinese name, that suggests he comes from a Chinese family. That doesn't help either. LOL Just one more thing that makes him like a father.
Oh dear...LOL
Special k wrote about some therapists having a no gift policy, but I don't see how that relates to this situation. Dr. Bob is not my therapist. I know the no gift policy has to do with ethics, but what would the reason be for Dr. Bob?
Deneb*
Posted by zazenduck on April 4, 2006, at 18:33:33
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 18:11:13
It almost seems like he wants to continue to engage with you about this. Wouldn't it have been simpler to take the gift say thank you and not make an issue about it? (Oh and don't forget to send a thank you note)
Dr Bob doesn't always see social norms the way others do....it's just part of being Dr Bob.
Refusing to accept it just makes it into a bigger deal and continues the dialogue with all this wondering why! I can see a therapist reacting in this way but a forum owner??
Of course Mrs Bob may have a strict no gifts from girls under 25 policy for Bob and she may have laid down the law!! But geez it was a scarf not a set of underwear!
I like you Deneb. I admire your spirit. PLEASE don't let this upset you and get yourself blocked or ruin your trip to Toronto,ok?
Posted by zazenduck on April 4, 2006, at 18:53:15
In reply to Re: the cold of winter » Deneb, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2006, at 1:06:01
To recognize the quality, significance, or magnitude of: appreciated their freedom.
To be fully aware of or sensitive to; realize: I appreciate your problems.
To be thankful or show gratitude for: I really appreciate your help.
To admire greatly; value.
To raise in value or price, especially over time.OK which one of dictionary.com's defs for apreciate was Dr Bob using?
and why did he change the title of the post?
I think this is more ambiguous than ever. I still think he should have accepted a small gift and said Thank You. I find his behaviour unusual and somewhat provocative.
But I'll say no more.
Posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 19:04:46
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf, posted by zazenduck on April 4, 2006, at 18:33:33
> I like you Deneb. I admire your spirit. PLEASE don't let this upset you and get yourself blocked or ruin your trip to Toronto,ok?
I'm not upset. Dr. Bob just wants to give his scarf to the less fortunate, probably because he already has enough scarves or because it doesn't get cold enough for scarves where he lives.
Deneb*
Posted by LegWarmers on April 4, 2006, at 19:06:33
In reply to I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf, posted by Deneb on April 4, 2006, at 17:11:01
>
> Hmmmm...anyone else have any ideas? What's the most likely reason?
>
> Deneb*healthy boundries
Posted by LegWarmers on April 4, 2006, at 19:11:17
In reply to Re: I wonder why Dr. Bob won't accept my scarf, posted by zazenduck on April 4, 2006, at 18:33:33
> It almost seems like he wants to continue to engage with you about this. Wouldn't it have been simpler to take the gift say thank you and not make an issue about it? (Oh and don't forget to send a thank you note)
I can't recall how long ago it was, but Dr. Bob was very clear when he answered Deneb back then in saying he didn't want a gift. Maybe its just me, but he is being very clear to me.>
> Dr Bob doesn't always see social norms the way others do....it's just part of being Dr Bob.yes, there are definatly things I don't agree with!
>
> Refusing to accept it just makes it into a bigger deal and continues the dialogue with all this wondering why! I can see a therapist reacting in this way but a forum owner??I completely understnad why, when she asked the question I thought there is not a chance he will accept this.
>
> I like you Deneb. I admire your spirit. PLEASE don't let this upset you and get yourself blocked or ruin your trip to Toronto,ok?I agree, Im sure you will have a great time whether you give it or not.
Just had to add my 1 cent worth
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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