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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Angel Girl on December 10, 2004, at 22:21:10
I've been under a lot more stress recently than I have been for awhile. About a month ago I took my 27 yr old son with me to see my therapist because something I was dealing with (or not dealing with very well) involved him. We were there for one hour.
On my next visit my therapist called my son a 'sociopath'. I looked it up on the net and found this webpage:
http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/socio.htm
It describes my son PERFECTLY!!! It makes me feel even more depressed than I already was and a huge failure as a mother. How can he turn out to be the EXTREME opposite of me?
The worst thing is that he doesn't see anything wrong with himself.
I'm such a failure in life. I couldn't even raise my son properly. :(
MY LIFE SUCKS!!!
AG
Posted by Susan47 on December 10, 2004, at 22:59:02
In reply to This is my son and it REALLY depresses me. :(, posted by Angel Girl on December 10, 2004, at 22:21:10
Did you read the whole thing? Because a lot of the character traits or whatever, involve controlling large groups of people. It sounds like every religious leader in history could've been a sociopath.
Posted by Toph on December 10, 2004, at 23:09:17
In reply to This is my son and it REALLY depresses me. :(, posted by Angel Girl on December 10, 2004, at 22:21:10
OK, no more Patch Adams, first I have a 23 year old son who isn't coming home for Christmas because his roommate's family invited him, well isn't that special?
I don't mean to undermind your therapy but I wonder about someone who vicariously asaults you by calling your son pathologic without processing that with you so that you wouldn't feel like a failure. You must be a good mother if your son would be willing to go see a therapist with you or for you. None of us know you AG but this is a pretty safe place to share your anguish.
-Toph
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 11, 2004, at 0:22:29
In reply to Re: This is my son and it REALLY depresses me. :( » Angel Girl, posted by Toph on December 10, 2004, at 23:09:17
> I don't mean to undermind your therapy but I wonder about someone who vicariously asaults you by calling your son pathologic without processing that with you so that you wouldn't feel like a failure.
I think Toph raises a good question there, and granted I know next to nothing about therapy but I also wonder why she would bring it up if the reason you had gone to therapy was because, as you'd said it was a problem *you* were having Seems at the very least that it would take more than one session to decide someone is a sociopath.
Posted by AdaGrace on December 11, 2004, at 0:23:21
In reply to Re: This is my son and it REALLY depresses me. :( » Angel Girl, posted by Toph on December 10, 2004, at 23:09:17
That was a pretty insensitive way to tell you that, and perhaps a tad bit premature since the T only met your son one time......are they that good at diagnosing things like that at first sight?
People here care AG, please stay with us and let us try to help you through this.....
Ada, humming the Beatles "Help", Grace
Posted by AdaGrace on December 11, 2004, at 0:26:20
In reply to Re: I agree with Toph here » Toph, posted by AdaGrace on December 11, 2004, at 0:23:21
Was talking to you AG about Toph and sorta got my fingers in the wrong pie so to speak....
Ada, really needs to go to bed but had three diet cokes, Grace
Posted by Susan47 on December 11, 2004, at 21:22:29
In reply to Re: This is my son and it REALLY depresses me. :( » Angel Girl, posted by Toph on December 10, 2004, at 23:09:17
I was thinking exactly that when I read your post and then especially when I read the info on sociopath ... that's a mighty big judgement to make about someone on first meeting.
Posted by Angel Girl on December 15, 2004, at 3:30:38
In reply to Angelgirl, Toph has a good point, posted by Susan47 on December 11, 2004, at 21:22:29
Sorry I took so long to respond. I really think that my T is right. I had just never thought about it before and quite honestly didn't exactly know what a sociopath was. Firstly, I am NOT trying to offend anybody here who might have this diagnosis, so if I do, I AM SORRY!!!! Not my intention at all. This is about MY SON ONLY.
My son has the following traits, all of which are traits of a sociopath.
compulsive liar
no remorse
demands respect from others
no empathy for others
shows no feelings, except for anger if provoked
uses people
manipulates people
he'll destroy you emotionally, financially, etc if he has to to get what he wants
extremely self-centered
can't hold a job, continually quits or is fired
can be charming to reel you in
very, very cold
major problem with anger
claims he can't have feelings of love
holds grudges for life (never forgets if you've *wronged* him)
no concern for what his actions/words has on others as long as he gets what HE wants
behavior problems his entire life, including childhood
kicked out of 4 schools, suspended MANY times
has grandious ideas that never pan out
never says "I'm sorry"
never accepts blame, blames something/someone else
irresponsible
doesn't see that there is anything wrong with him
first started therapy in kindergarden
no patience whatsoever
no conscience
controls people
deep-seeded anger/rage starting in childhood
has used aliases but doesn't now (that I know of)
doesn't honor his financial obligations (bills) and doesn't worry about it
has stolen from employment if he has access to cash
steals from friendsIt PAINS me to describe my son like this but it is all true and everybody who knows him would attest to this. When I typed out the list I was going to put in caps the traits that were severe but then realized everything would be in caps. It REALLY depresses me and I'm going to talk about it with my T this week.
However he loves animals immensely. I know it all sounds horrible and it is but he's still my son and I love him.
A very saddened AG
Posted by fallsfall on December 15, 2004, at 9:40:19
In reply to Re: Let me clarify, my T is right about my son, posted by Angel Girl on December 15, 2004, at 3:30:38
Mental illnesses seem usually to be a combination of nature and nurture. For some people it is more nature, for others it is more nurture. It sounds like your son does have a problem. But it also sounds like you did an awful lot for him as his mother. Your list has a couple of items that indicate to me that his problems may be more nature-related than nurture-related:
behavior problems his entire life, including childhood
first started therapy in kindergarden
deep-seeded anger/rage starting in childhoodThese things suggest to me that he was born with a "difficult temperment", and also that you actively tried to do what you could to help him.
It is *his* job to grow up to be a good person. A mother cannot *create* a good person. A mother can only guide her child and try to help them go in the right direction. The ultimate decision about what direction a child goes in is solely up to the child.
He is lucky to have a mother who loves him and who cares about him.
Posted by alesta on December 16, 2004, at 15:48:10
In reply to This is my son and it REALLY depresses me. :(, posted by Angel Girl on December 10, 2004, at 22:21:10
hi angel girl,:)
i wanted to let you know that i feel for you. this discovery sounds like it has been pretty painful for you. <hugs> of course you still love your son. i don't believe it's his fault that he's like this, nor is it yours, sweetie. i've read your posts and am sure you didn't cause this. i wish i knew how else to comfort you..
here's something i found on the internet: "Researcher D.C. Rowe posits that some individuals have a genotype that disposes them to antisocial behavior. These individuals are characterized by a deficit of social emotions which include love, shame, guilt, empathy and remorse." so there may very well be a gene involved here (i would say without a doubt). continue to love your son, as long as you are able to protect yourself from emotional harm, and not implicate the blame on yourself. i know this is a big challenge that has been placed in your life, but i have faith in you. however, absolutely protect your emotional wellbeing first and foremost when dealing with your son. don't allow your son to hurt or take advantage of you as best you can (by setting boundaries, etc.) i know it's hard, but i believe some of the strongest people seem to get the hardest challenges in life. my heart goes out to you and your son.
much love and hugs,:)
amy
Posted by Angel Girl on December 23, 2004, at 15:21:24
In reply to Re: This is my son and it REALLY depresses me. :( » Angel Girl, posted by alesta on December 16, 2004, at 15:48:10
fallsfall & alesta
Thanks for your kind words. My T said the same thing to me. It's hard not to blame yourself for how your children turn out but I'm trying. I'm also *trying* to learn to accept him for who he is because I've also learned that he's not going to change unless *he* wants to.
I don't know if you read my other post where I said he forgot my birthday or not but it seems that my meltdown with him has had some positive effects. Sometimes when we are hurt or angry we blurt out things that we may not normally do, as was the case with me. I told him that my T thought he was a sociopath. As he didn't know what that meant, I told him to look it up on the internet. Instead he asked my sister, who explained it a little more severely than I would've but it looks like my son is now evaluating the person that he is. Maybe he recognized himself in some of the traits that she presented to him that are part of being a sociopath.
Now he talks to me with kindness (most of the time) and is trying to make some positive changes. He and his new girlfriend took me out last night to see how people have decorated the outside of their homes with Christmas lights. That is something I love to do and I think it put me a *little* more in the Christmas spirit than I was.
We're having a very small gathering this year for Christmas; only my son and his g/f, my mom and I. None of us wanted to cook and we couldn't find anywhere that was open to go to but my son has decided now that he is going to cook turkey and all the trimmings for the first time ever. :) Personally, I was hoping to avoid Christmas altogether this year since my son has been a real trigger for me for the last several months. But since that conversation he had with my sister, I can see a *real" change him for the better, although he still has some moments when he displays anger needlessly.
Also, he has decided that he is going to go for therapy for anger management, which is a VERY positive thing and VERY long overdue. Hopefully, he will carry through with it and make some positive changes in regards to his anger.
Thanks again for your replies, I'm working on not blaming myself. He's 27 tomorrow, he's an adult and should be capable of making the right decisions and there is nothing I can do at this point in his life to change him, except to compliment him when he does something positive, which I'm doing.
AG
Posted by fallsfall on December 23, 2004, at 16:22:34
In reply to Re: This is my son and it REALLY depresses me. :(, posted by Angel Girl on December 23, 2004, at 15:21:24
He is truly lucky to have you for his mother.
I'm really glad that things seem to be improving a bit! Let's hope it continues.
Have a good Christmas.
Posted by Angel Girl on December 28, 2004, at 17:18:18
In reply to Re: This is my son and it REALLY depresses me. :( » Angel Girl, posted by fallsfall on December 23, 2004, at 16:22:34
> He is truly lucky to have you for his mother.
>
> I'm really glad that things seem to be improving a bit! Let's hope it continues.
>
> Have a good Christmas.
fallsfallWell, the improvements were very short-lived. Unfortunately, yesterday he reverted back to his old ways of treating me like the dirt he walks on. I *REALLY* feel that he thinks he would be better off without me and my being BP and the problems that come with that and maybe he would.
I'm feeling *VERY* depressed again. :(
AG
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