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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Klokka on October 25, 2004, at 5:42:31
I know I haven't posted in a while - have been very busy with school and haven't had much to say - but I didn't know where else to go.
I started a very demanding program at pre-university and it's become apparent that it's just not working out. I have seasonal affective disorder and things are so much worse this year than they were last. I can't focus in class anymore, and I'm making myself sick from all the stress. I don't know if I can drag myself to another day of class... but I have a midterm tomorrow, so I'm not sure I have a choice, plus I'd only make things worse for myself if I did miss class.
I think I would be able to complete this if I was able to change programs. This is looking like a good idea anyway since I am currently in science and discovering that I really should have taken liberal arts after all. The problem with this is my parents. Not that they ever went to college themselves, but they're so focused on this idea that you can't succeed without studying science and they won't let go. The second reason, which I can't blame them for, is that they paid a lot of money for my textbooks this semester, most of which would be going to waste.
I just don't know what to do. I've been walking around on the verge of a breakdown for two weeks now, I couldn't sleep last night and I can't hold any food down. I don't understand anything which is on tomorrow's midterm. I can't even see my pdoc this week, as he's away on the day I normally see him. I started medication recently but it hasn't helped at all. The consequences of letting school slide would be disastrous, but the stress is going to kill me if I don't. I'm meeting with my program coordinator (who is amazingly supportive but of course can only do so much) and probably one of the school guidance counselors soon to see what can be done, but I don't know if there is anything. I had sufficient help in high school, but this isn't high school anymore... Any advice for coping/dealing with my parents when this all blows up in my face?
Posted by stresser on October 25, 2004, at 8:28:53
In reply to School, stress, and parents' expectations, posted by Klokka on October 25, 2004, at 5:42:31
I have two children, one 12 and the other 16 (junior in HS). I hope I can help shed some light with your situation. It would help to know how old you are, and if this is your first year in college....anyway, I have a good friend who's daughter when to college. She was there two years and change her major three times, and this last fall she didn't go back. She is taking a year off to figure out what she wants to do, she said she didn't want to waste anymore of her paretns money. I know that is a dissapointment for her parents, because she was in the top of her class when she graduated HS. But it isn't ruining anybody's life and they are dealing with it just fine. It can be done. Now....just because your parents needed science and probably have careers that were based on science, doesn't mean you need it. I would definatly get advice from a counselor, they know what's going on. I'm married to a Chemical Enineer who also things science is everything. Many of us start school thinking we are interested in something, and find out it's something totaly different we want. NORMAL. Is there anyway you can finish out this semester, and changed programs afterwards? I think you have put in quite a bit of time already, and probably wouldn't want to waste that away. Am I right? You need to talk to your parents. Things could be ALOT worse than your not liking what you're doing and changing majors. Even if you can't stick it out, it's not life threatening and things will be fine. Waling around being stressed out isn't helping you or your grades. You won't do well in something that makes you miserable, and with that you will start to resent science classes. This is do-able, and can work with little problem, so go talk to your parents before you get more depressed. I know you can't say "hey look mom and dad, things could be alot worse, just read some of the posts on Dr Bob", but that would put some things into perspective. Keep us informed, and take a deep breath for your midterm. The grade you get on that may help you make a rational discision. -L
Posted by fallsfall on October 25, 2004, at 8:51:02
In reply to School, stress, and parents' expectations, posted by Klokka on October 25, 2004, at 5:42:31
Parents can be hard.
I dropped out of college after 2 years - much to my parents' dismay. But I did go back and ended up getting a Master's Degree. I now have a daughter who is a senior in college (and still can't quite decide what she wants to do), so I have seen this from both sides.
First, I think it is important that you do what is right for YOU. It is your life, and you need to make your own choices. Your parents may not agree with your choices, but the choices are yours to make, not theirs.
That said, it really is worth your while to try to have your parents see that you are making thoughtful choices. Can you talk to them about why they feel science is so important? Can you let them know that you *do* understand their values and reasons for putting an emphasis on science? Before you try to say anything about what you want to do, if you can get to a point with them where they truly know that you understand what and why they are trying to do, they will be more open to hearing what you have to say. I find that if I'm not sure that someone understands my point, that I figure that they are making "bad" decisions but they would change their mind if they understood my point. So I keep trying to pound my point into their brains (I know this is not one of my better qualities...). BUT, if I know that they *do* understand my point - but they *disagree* with it - I have an easier time (maybe because then I don't feel like I have to keep explaining my point).)
Once you are on solid footing, where they feel like you are understanding them, then you can introduce your dilemma. Tell them about who you are. Why is science not igniting your spark? What are you excited about? What do you think your strengths are? What are your weaknesses? What other directions are you considering? Why are they interesting to you? (My son came to me 2 years ago and told me that he wanted to go into the Army. Talk about parental panic! But we talked enough so that I knew that he was realistic about the risks, and understood the commitment he was making. He said "Hopefully the job that I'm taking won't put me in the front lines. But, if I have to go to the front lines and fight for my country, I would be proud to do that." And he was so excited about it. It was clear that this was a choice that he had considered carefully, and that this was the direction he wanted to go in.) Never underestimate the power of enthusiasm. Your parents WANT you to be happy. If you can show them that you have determined what path will make you happy, they will be likely to give you their blessing.
Tell them how stressed you are now, and how unhappy you are. It really isn't unusual for beginning college students to switch majors (sometimes every semester for a while). College is a time to sample things you haven't been exposed to, some you will like, and they will become part of the rest of your life. Some won't be exciting to you, and you'll move on to something else.
Try to let your parents know that your decisions aren't based on rebellion against them, but rather on choices for you.
Good luck!
Posted by octopusprime on October 25, 2004, at 10:45:08
In reply to School, stress, and parents' expectations, posted by Klokka on October 25, 2004, at 5:42:31
ok so you are worried about two things with respect to your parents:
1. you can't succeed without studying science.studying science is no guarantee of success. and you can get to many places in the world through alternate paths.
for example, i work at a small software company. we have people in our office that have studied in the following:
* mathematics
* engineering
* psychology
* biology
* geography
* urban planning
and of course computer science
and there are people who just got diplomas at college and not degrees at university. and some of our staff doesn't have any completed post-secondary education at all.it's just a little anecdote that shows the major in school, while it seems important at the time, winds up not being so important once you are finished. you get a job and move on.
the point of college is really:
* finish what you start, even when you don't wanna
* committing yourself to an institution (your school) for years
* showing independent initiative to work with your teachers/profsyou can get this with any degree
the second point you worried about was
2. the money spent on textbooks, which are expensivehow much did your textbooks cost? $500? $750? how does this compare to the cost of tuition and books for a four year degree? it's a drop in the bucket and better that you know now.
you need a program that you can commit yourself to for four years. science will not be successful for you if you can't stick with it.
good luck.
Posted by mair on October 27, 2004, at 17:42:03
In reply to School, stress, and parents' expectations, posted by Klokka on October 25, 2004, at 5:42:31
I have a son who's a sophmore in college and a daughter who's a junior in high school. My son doesn't really have a clue about what he'd like to do and is struggling to choose a major.
We continually tell my son 2 things. 1) there need not be any correlation between what he studies in college and what he ends up doing, so he shouldn't think he's somehow casting himself for the future with the courses he selects, or that he's foreclosing other possibilities. 2) Whatever he decides to do, have it be something he enjoys.
#2 is tough; I don't really know that many people who really love their work. But I do think that those who do, are so much more successful at what they do and personally satisfied.
I've known lots of people who have gone back to school later to fill in courses they failed to take in college - like people who go back to take all the pre-med stuff, because they decide to go to medical school. So maybe you can convince your parents that you're not necessarily foreclosing a science-related field for the future.
But I think you need to communicate to them that there is no way you can successfully study or retain stuff in a course of study that you neither like nor are suited for.
Mair
Posted by gardenergirl on October 27, 2004, at 20:36:52
In reply to Re: School, stress, and parents' expectations » Klokka, posted by mair on October 27, 2004, at 17:42:03
Klokka,
I think others have said it quite nicely above. Unless you are in a very tecnical field, in many cases, you do not have to limit yourself to your major when looking for jobs. Also, I think it's rather a high expectation to think that all 18-19 year olds should be able to decide on a major. This is a time for personal growth and development. In that time, you may find that your interests and talents lead you into another direction.Parental influence can make this more difficult, though. I have seen undergrads who have decided to go against their parents' wishes for a major (note it's the parents' wishes for the child's future???? um, who has to live it?). Sometimes this results in the undergrad having to find alternate financial aid, or taking a longer time to finish if the parents choose not to support the student's decision. But that's the worst case scenario.
I hope you and your parents are able to have an effective dialog about this and come to a decision about what will feel right for you. And please know that no decision made at this age regarding school is written in stone. Heck, I've dropped and gone back before, and changed professions. There is no one right path for everyone to success.
Good luck to you, and nice to hear from you.
gg
Posted by Klokka on October 28, 2004, at 19:39:46
In reply to Re: School, stress, and parents' expectations » Klokka, posted by stresser on October 25, 2004, at 8:28:53
I'm 17, and in my first year of college. It's not quite what you would consider college, though, but preparation for it. There aren't majors, but general programs. I would be able to change programs next semester... well, so long as I pass this one. (Otherwise I may be asked to leave.) I guess the difficulty is that I previously did try to talk to my parents about taking a different program - before they spent all the money on textbooks - and they were extremely opposed to it. They honestly seem to have no idea of how demanding college can be; even now, they expect me to be at the top of my class (composed of students who were top of their respective classes in high school), get a job, etc. I don't think they'd be too willing to listen, but I guess I might have to talk all the same.
I was able to stay calm during the midterm, which was a pleasant surprise. Knowing that it didn't really have to count helped... we're in a tougher class but write a common final exam, so if we do better than that, that mark counts for 100% of our grade. Since the teacher is very prompt with grading, I got my mark back today. I passed, which is more than I expected, but just barely. The real test is whether I can understand the mistakes I made... if I can't, it would be dangerous to put myself through three more semesters of it. (I can only transfer into the program I want this coming semester.) I need some distance from all the drama first, though, so it'll be a little while.
Posted by Klokka on October 28, 2004, at 19:52:14
In reply to Re: School, stress, and parents' expectations » Klokka, posted by fallsfall on October 25, 2004, at 8:51:02
I guess I don't really understand why my parents insist (as much as they can) that I study science. I know that money is somewhat of a consideration; they are not very prepared for retirement and want me to pick up the slack. Other than that... I just don't know. I've told them about a few of the things I've been considering, and the response hasn't been great. The only thing they approved of was medicine (I realized something like two weeks into the semester that that just wasn't going to happen, thankfully had kept other things in mind all along); when I mentioned going into psychology or education, they would just say that I couldn't work with people because "you just don't talk to them." (It's at this point that I really wonder how much they know about my life... sure, I'm a little quiet, but definitely have no trouble with speaking to people.) I'll try and see if I remember anything, because this is honestly puzzling me.
Posted by Klokka on October 28, 2004, at 19:58:07
In reply to school, parents, and money » Klokka, posted by octopusprime on October 25, 2004, at 10:45:08
The cost of books and program fees unfortunately do add up to quite a lot, especially given that it's only a two year thing and pretty cheap for postsecondary education anyway. It's interesting to hear how people with such varying educational backgrounds can work in the same office, especially a small one. I'll try telling them about that, though I'm not quite sure what it is that they're concerned about.
Posted by Klokka on October 28, 2004, at 20:14:42
In reply to Re: School, stress, and parents' expectations » Klokka, posted by mair on October 27, 2004, at 17:42:03
I probably could convince my parents of that, given that it's much easier to get into certain fields around here by a longer route (though they're worried about paying for my education - which, um, they can't really do anyway so I don't know why they're so worried - so they would want to avoid that) and psychology, which I think I'd choose as a major if I were otherwise completely undecided, could come in handy later on even if not pursued as a career. I don't know if they'd understand not being able to retain information... I think it has something to do with their own backgrounds, as they were bright enough to do well in high school and then never went to college at all, but they talk as though ability to succeed is all about effort and nothing else, which is really not true especially at this level. Some other students spend a fraction of the time I do studying for a test and get a significantly better grade... and then again, I've planned and written a philosophy paper the night before and done better than those who started as soon as the assignment was received. Maybe if I used the angle of scholarships, it would help; after all, if I took a program based on courses I'm suited for, I would do better and be more likely to receive financial aid. I know, for example, that one of the universities I'm looking at gives a pretty decent scholarship to students just for entering with/maintaining an average over 80, which would be doable if I switched programs, but maybe not otherwise.
Posted by Klokka on October 28, 2004, at 20:35:35
In reply to Re: School, stress, and parents' expectations, posted by gardenergirl on October 27, 2004, at 20:36:52
Hi gg. Yeah, I think that college has been useful in telling what I'm more suited for; that I did well in science and math in high school doesn't mean that I could continue doing so in postsecondary studies, nevermind actually wanting to. I thought I carried a bit too much occasional resentment for those subjects then... having fifteen hours per week total (plus study time; about thirty hours) isn't helping one bit! I think financial aid would be a problem anyway, but thankfully education is relatively cheap where I live and everyday expenses would be the main issue.
It's just so confusing because even though I have grades back and a midterm assessment (rough grades based on the first two months of work), I really don't know how well I'm doing. My assessment said that I'm doing quite well in everything except for physics (which was satisfactory), but I can't see how my grades are adding up to that at all in most subjects. Added to the fact that I've been very emotional this week and there are advantages to the program which would be lost if I left, I'm completely confused at the moment.
Posted by JenStar on October 29, 2004, at 20:18:25
In reply to School, stress, and parents' expectations, posted by Klokka on October 25, 2004, at 5:42:31
hi Klokka,
the books are not the important thing here, even though they were expensive and your parents may be disappointed if they go to waste. What's the worst that could happen? What if you failed all your classes? You can bounce back from that, if it comes to that! Don't feel that it's the end of the world. Science isn't for everyone, and maybe it's not for you.Here's my advice, for what it's worth....
Take a deep breath...take the exams (even if you don't do well), and then take stock of the situation. Figure out what you need to do to recover things -- Do you need help with time management so you can better apply yourself? Do you really need to switch majors?
I'd be careful about this, though -- is the root problem that you are not good at science, or is the root problem that you did not do any studying, reading or delving into the topics -- if that is the case, that could be causing you a great deal of guilty sick feeling & could be causing some of the physical symptoms. It could also be an excuse ("I'm just not good as science") when you should really be saying "I didn't do any studying, or enough studying, to keep up the pace."
I know I always used to feel worst when I didn't apply myself and then had to "face the music," so to speak! This happened OFTEN (too often!) my freshman year, and it made me physically ill on several occasions. I would call my mom and cry and say I'd chosen the wrong major and that I was just not GOOD at my chosen field, but in reality I just was spending too much time hanging out & not enough time really learning the concepts. Of course I was in a big state of self-delusion and denial over this, but I knew it at some lever, and finally was able to face the issues and start applying myself.
The reason I say this is not to give you a hard time or to make you feel bad. It's just my experience that people can usually be good at ANY major they choose, as long as they put in the hours.
Anyway, take it easy. You're still a good, worthwhile, cool person regardless of your grades.
Take care!
JenSTar
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