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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on September 25, 2004, at 20:10:47
I'm wondering if anyone else experiences this...
Today, I feel I'm coming out of a depression a bit, but still have thoughts of s*icide. Not that I'm going to do it, but the thoughts won't go away. I actually don't think they ever do completely.
When I'm depressed, I suppose I'm closer to doing it, and that's what got me in the hospital more than once. I just wish I wouldn't have to fight the thoughts when I'm either 'not depressed', or 'less depressed'.
Any thoughts?
Dee.
Posted by just plain jane on September 25, 2004, at 20:46:37
In reply to s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by deirdrehbrt on September 25, 2004, at 20:10:47
Actually, yes. I think about it.
I think about all the friends I've had who did it.
I think about how screwed up it was, every time.
How broken up I was, their families and friends were.
What a crappy thing it is to miss them so and, even worse, to feel like joining them because I feel so crappy myself and would I get to see them again?
I think about how I could do it and make it look accidental. Not that I want to or would, just how it could be done.
I think about the fact that my son is grown, I have no one else who cares for me in the pure way he does, the way our animals do. The fresh, innocent, simple love.
I think about all the sad, depressed, "hopeless", miserable people who are thinking about it, considering it, doing it, and how they, like I, are probably feeling like no one cares much about them and they do not know that I care, without even knowing they exist, I care.
Because no one should ever have to feel so bad.
It breaks my heart.
Yes, I think about it.
just plain jane
Posted by tabitha on September 26, 2004, at 3:19:34
In reply to s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by deirdrehbrt on September 25, 2004, at 20:10:47
I've had the thoughts when I wasn't feeling particularly bad. There are degrees of depression for me, and some don't really feel all that bad, almost pleasantly numb, but I notice things that don't seem normal, like suicide thoughts, and just not functioning all that well, not taking care of things, and thinking it's rational, because those things aren't worth doing. I recognize that these are symptoms of depression, but I think who cares, I feel OK.
So.. I guess I'm trying to say that suicide thoughts are indicators of depression, even when you don't necessarily feel all that bad. The low mood is only one of the many symptoms right? You can have a lot of the other symptoms without that one.
I used to have suicide thoughts almost all the time, like the possibility would just be there somehow, even though I wasn't really planning it or yearning for it. Gradually there was some space between the thoughts, and finally they went away so much that having them at all seemed unusual. I'd go a year or two without them. Lately they're more frequent.
Posted by ghost on September 26, 2004, at 8:40:40
In reply to s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by deirdrehbrt on September 25, 2004, at 20:10:47
i am obsessed with death, i think. i think about it all the time... how nice it would be if i weren't here any more... how i can do it... what would happen when i did... the little miniscule details (what will happen to my furniture, if my sister will get my car, what my parents would think if they found sex toys or drug paraphernalia... what people would say about me when they found out). hm, maybe i shouldn't go into so much detail in a post.
i think you're right in that they probably never go away completely. if you're inclined to think about it in the first place, it might just be an underlying part of your subconscious that's always there.
i still think about it. a lot. but i'm okay with thinking about it, as long as i don't plan on doing it. it's like it's just another part of my personality, i guess. but there's always that fine line between acting and not acting on it, and when you're already inclined to think about it... i think our fight is harder than the average person's fight, i guess.
ghost
Posted by mair on September 26, 2004, at 9:25:55
In reply to s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by deirdrehbrt on September 25, 2004, at 20:10:47
I've struggled with this alot, and it's led to some interesting discussions with my T. There are certain physical sensations I associate with depression and certain other recognizable symptoms. I've noticed that at times, I can think about suicide quite a bit when none of the sensations and none of the other symptoms are present. My take on that is that if I'm suicidal when I'm not depressed, then my suicidal impulses are not the result of an illness which distorts but are, rather, a rational response to circumstances and just an indication of a self-loathing that is not depression-based. This logic makes the suicidal feelings that much more genuine, since I reason they are not a distortion.
My T's response (and we've talked about this alot) is that I have many different symptoms of depression and they are not all present at the same time. She just believes that the suicidal thinking is a symptom that is particularly enduring, but that it is a symptom, nonetheless. I buy her logic until the next time I'm feeling depression-free but otherwise suicidal.
She believes that my suicidal thinking got significantly less persistent when I added a particular drug. I don't like taking it much and I cut back on it alot early last summer. Every time I take a dive (like now) she reminds me that maybe I should consider increasing that medication.
I do have to say, a preoccupation with suicide used to be a bigger problem than it is now, so maybe she's right about the drug, or maybe I'm just a little stronger now. (This is looking at things over a continuum - the immediate here and now is pretty bleak). I still can think about it but I don't get as preoccupied - the thoughts are less frequent and don't tend to last as long.
Mair
Posted by deirdrehbrt on September 26, 2004, at 9:36:33
In reply to Re: s*icide thoughts when not depressed » deirdrehbrt, posted by mair on September 26, 2004, at 9:25:55
Just Plain Jane, Tabitha, Ghost, and Mair
Thanks for your posts. It really helps to hear so many different viewpoints. It's nice to know I'm nost alone with that. Maybe it is still part of the depression, but it's weird when feeling relatively healthy, if not exactly happy, and to be fixated every now and again on ways to end my life.
Thanks again,Dee.
Posted by SadWren on September 26, 2004, at 11:18:33
In reply to s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by deirdrehbrt on September 25, 2004, at 20:10:47
I have this too. On a day that my mood is ok, I will find myself singing "I want to die, I want to die" or pointing my finger at my head as if I am shooting it. I think my depression came about from feeling very overwhelmed with life and that even when my mood is ok, I still seek relief from the daily pressures of living. But when I am feeling depressed I feel much more inclined to act on my thoughts than when I am not (probably because other modes of relief, like a nice walk, don't feel effective when depressed).
Take care,
Wren
Posted by octopusprime on September 26, 2004, at 11:36:35
In reply to Re: s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by SadWren on September 26, 2004, at 11:18:33
from time to time, when i do not exhibit the signs of depression, i get very strong visualizations of me driving my car into a mack truck or a concrete barracade. this is especially disturbing when i am driving.
i don't typically fixate on death like the other posters (i haven't done that in a few years now), but the impulse is always there and with me. and it's scary.
Posted by Susan47 on September 26, 2004, at 18:49:25
In reply to Re: s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by octopusprime on September 26, 2004, at 11:36:35
It's like a door that's always there, always available, and once it's been cracked, it's always open.
Posted by just plain jane on September 26, 2004, at 19:46:18
In reply to Re: s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by Susan47 on September 26, 2004, at 18:49:25
Posted by deirdrehbrt on September 26, 2004, at 20:33:33
In reply to Re: s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by Susan47 on September 26, 2004, at 18:49:25
How nicely put.
Dee.
Posted by Emme on September 26, 2004, at 22:11:53
In reply to Re: s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by Susan47 on September 26, 2004, at 18:49:25
Posted by 10derHeart on September 26, 2004, at 23:42:35
In reply to Re: s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by Susan47 on September 26, 2004, at 18:49:25
...I wrote almost these precise words in a journal about one year ago, when I also was feeling *better* (whatever that is), depression-wise, but incessantly reading and writing and thinking about death/suicide? No kidding. Wow. Maybe the door analogy is common one...? It's like a special seal that can't be resealed. <sigh> Dam&!!
Posted by Susan47 on September 27, 2004, at 8:27:53
In reply to How Did You Know.... » Susan47, posted by 10derHeart on September 26, 2004, at 23:42:35
You know it when you've been there, don't you? There's no going back.
Posted by just plain jane on September 27, 2004, at 9:35:37
In reply to Re: How Did You Know...., posted by Susan47 on September 27, 2004, at 8:27:53
just like all the things i thought about while on mind-expanding drugs all those years ago.
"good old" lsd, mescaline, peyote...
no, i will never forget, as long as my mind works in some fashion
suicide will remain on the day's thought agenda
but then, so will lots of good stuff
:-))
Posted by just plain jane on September 27, 2004, at 9:37:43
In reply to never go back, posted by just plain jane on September 27, 2004, at 9:35:37
the concepts...
Posted by iris2 on September 27, 2004, at 12:18:50
In reply to s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by deirdrehbrt on September 25, 2004, at 20:10:47
I usually think more about suicide when I am feeling better. There is more time to reflect on how bad I am feeling and although I am feeling not so depressed when a thought comes along that is negative or something happens thinking about a way out gives me a kind of pressure release
valve. I agree with others it is not at these times I am likely to act. When I am not thinking about suic*** but thinking only of it I am so depressed. I think that is the difference for me. When I am so depressed I am thinking of it and the desire as opposed to thinking about suicide and the concequences. I see the difference as the ability to stop and observe my thoughts as opposed to having unwelcome thoughts that I might act upon.irene
Posted by JLx on September 28, 2004, at 12:19:42
In reply to Re: s*icide thoughts when not depressed » deirdrehbrt, posted by iris2 on September 27, 2004, at 12:18:50
Suicidal ideation and feelings for many years were the symptom of my worst depressions and sometimes came unbidden when I didn't feel
"that bad". I would wake up in the morning right into a feeling of wanting to put a gun to my head.I haven't had this feeling or that depths of depression now for over 2 years -- since I started taking magnesium.
I used to blame myself so much for those thoughts, feeling ungrateful for the gift of life, not to mention the sheer pain of thinking that I was supposed to do it, that I just shouldn't be here. I thought it was psychology, emotions, something amenable to therapy or requiring antidepressants. But it was a magnesium deficiency. Magnesium is depleted by a high sugar/refined carb, high protein, high phosphorus (lunch meat and sodas), high calcium diet, prescription drugs...and stress.
"Patients who had made suicide attempts (by using either violent or nonviolent means) had significantly lower mean CSF magnesium level irrespective of the diagnosis." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2578829&dopt=Abstract
I actually asked my psychiatrist about magnesium after I ran across a website of a guy who said he'd cured his depression with magnesium. He responded negatively. Fortunately, I didn't listen to him! And I haven't seen him since. :)
JL
Posted by B2chica on September 28, 2004, at 17:19:09
In reply to Re: s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by octopusprime on September 26, 2004, at 11:36:35
for lack of better words...OMG
you know i just wrote a whole paragraph going into details of some of my 'visuals' but it became very graphic, and well-it would really sound sick and i decided not to share in detail. but YES, yes, yes i do this so incredibly often with such intensity that it takes me fighting to pull out of this 'visual'.
i always jolt back into reality, it's so awkward when i do this around people...i usually use the 'bug' excuse.these are terrifying.
b2c.
> from time to time, when i do not exhibit the signs of depression, i get very strong visualizations of me driving my car into a mack truck or a concrete barracade. this is especially disturbing when i am driving.
>
> i don't typically fixate on death like the other posters (i haven't done that in a few years now), but the impulse is always there and with me. and it's scary.
Posted by B2chica on September 28, 2004, at 17:22:33
In reply to Re: s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by Susan47 on September 26, 2004, at 18:49:25
Posted by rubenstein on September 28, 2004, at 20:52:56
In reply to s*icide thoughts when not depressed, posted by deirdrehbrt on September 25, 2004, at 20:10:47
This post really hit home because I have been dealing with this very issues as of late. I just can't make the thoughts go away. I then feel bad for having the thoughts and it becomes this vicious circle of self-destructiveness. Thank you so much for being brave to post about this, it really helped me today to know that there are others out there that struggle with similiar demons.
Rubenstein
Posted by mair on September 30, 2004, at 13:00:05
In reply to Re: visuals...YES » octopusprime, posted by B2chica on September 28, 2004, at 17:19:09
Yeah I do this too. A lot of my thinking about suicide is very visual and sometimes very detailed.
Freaky
Mair
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