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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 43. Go back in thread:
Posted by ghost on August 19, 2004, at 21:33:19
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-Ghost, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 19, 2004, at 14:54:35
it sounds so much like "body memories" that you're experiencing... i hope that your body can learn that it is safe now and it doesn't need to remember what it's remembering. and i hope you regain use of your arm, too.
lots and lots and lots of love,
ghost
Posted by gardenergirl on August 20, 2004, at 1:54:03
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions » Shadowplayers721, posted by AuntieMel on August 19, 2004, at 13:34:27
>
> I'm wondering if maybe the thing Rod was talking about would work. The one where the client pictures the child's fear and feelings of betrayl after one incident. Then you talk to the child, comforting her and telling her that her that she *is* loved over and over until she starts to feel calmer.
>
> It's something that sounds like it *should* work, or at least cause no harm.It also sounds a lot like the two-chair Gestalt technique. I used that last year with a variety of clients. Most all of them said in the end that despite how much they hated it (and they always groaned when I pulled out that third chair...) they thought that was one of the more helpful things we did.
At any rate, Shadows, I'm sorry you are remembering such scary and hurtful things. It must be absolutely terrifying.
Take gentle care,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on August 20, 2004, at 2:05:40
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-Ghost, posted by ghost on August 19, 2004, at 21:33:19
> it sounds so much like "body memories" that you're experiencing... i hope that your body can learn that it is safe now and it doesn't need to remember what it's remembering. and i hope you regain use of your arm, too.
>I agree. I wonder if body work...or energy work might help this symptom. Perhaps structural therapy?
> lots and lots and lots of love,
> ghostFrom me, too!
Take care,
gg
Posted by karlak13 on August 21, 2004, at 20:32:32
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-jenstar, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 19, 2004, at 13:48:13
I had become a sex addict and went into therapy to try to figure out what was wrong with me and how to stop my behaviours and acting out. Especially since I was married and loved my husband and I hated how my acting out hurt him so deeply. the t said it sounded like I had been sexually abused. My first response was like no way. Then I was like, who? Then I started going through babysitters. No. Then relatives. I got to my Grandfather and all of a sudden all I could remember was the feeling of being touched in my private area. I went home and called my mother and she was like oh God not you to! Grandpa had done it to her when she was a child but only when grandma wasn't home. She thought I would be ok around him as long as grandma was home. I went threw several months of flashbacks. Remembering being forced to have oral sex, being in the woods and tied to a tree, sitting in a living room full of people on his lap with a pillow over my lap with his hands down my pants. ETc. I finally got a chance to confront him and he admitted it. I had had years of therapy at that time so we talked about it. He was molested by his aunts as a young boy. I know how the cycle can continue. We cried alot after I let him know how it had effected my life and my marriage. I let him know I was notifing the family of his problem and not keeping it a secret. Then I told him I still loved him and forgave him. Then it was behind me and the healing was complete.
I will pray for what you are going through I know this must be the hardest thing you have ever gone through. Remember to take it one day at a time and that it wasn't your fault.
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 22, 2004, at 2:22:52
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-jenstar, posted by karlak13 on August 21, 2004, at 20:32:32
karlak13,
Thank you for sharing your painful history with me. I wish in someways that I could talk to this "thing" of a man and he is dangerous. Oh, he is frightening looking. He really is. He wasn't when I was a child. He was a very handsome man with cold eyes. Now, I tell you I wouldn't be within 10 feet of him. I doubt they way he smokes he has another 10 years on him. He looks what he is. I don't know what all happened to him. I do know that he was born right after a sister died, so the family dynamic was really warped. The other siblings were worked to death on the farm, but he wasn't asked to do anything.
I get really sick of people feeling so sorry for him. If I didn't have therapy, I would have been dead by suicide and no one would have known what was ever wrong with me. I have so many bizarre symptoms it's unreal. I didn't have a clue what was wrong with me when I got married. That's when all the bizarre symptoms started - seeing things moving, feeling jerking, not recognizing my husband,and extreme dizziness. I thought I had some rare neurological disorder or inner ear problem. I did geneology on the family to see if anyone had these crazy symptoms. Looking back, I feel like an idiot. I had no clue. I mean it. I didn't know what was wrong with me. I couldn't have a glass of alcohol or "it" the symptoms would get even worse. I couldn't ride a bike anymore due to the dizziness. I couldn't wear high heels. I shook all the time. I lost 15 pounds. I felt like I was dying. I was barely working. I still have the symptoms, but now I live with them. I don't complain about them. I feel their are a result of the abuse and may be tied to my dissociation. I have never read in any book all my symptoms of dissociation.
They say this man is paranoid schziophrenic. Now, I am no expert on this diagnosis. But, how was it that he carefully planned out drug dosages to use on me and hid what he did. He also would interact with the adults a bit to just chat on this or that. Nothing sounded illogical. But with me, he did mumble odd things. However, NEVER in front of the adults. Now, they say he doesn't talk due to meds, drools and laughs occasionally at people. I don't know. It's odd, but I wonder if he was sociopathy with psychotic tendencies. He worked, drove a car for years, was in the service, graduated from high school.
So, when did he do this sudden change into schziophrenia early 40's. That's not typical, but I guess anything is possible. Something did happen, because he did stop driving and working. I have had some people say it is his guilty conscious that is torturing him. I don't think so. My father told him that I was remembering that he molested me and guess what this strange thing said. He would love to see me again, but he needed to get cleaned up. WHAT!!!!
Posted by antigua on August 23, 2004, at 23:59:49
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 22, 2004, at 2:22:52
I don't have anything important to add but I want you to know that I'm thinking of you. Your memories sound like some of the body memories I've experienced, many of which I still don't understand. One in particular is a smothering feeling where I can't breathe and can't escape because I'm being held down. I hear specific sounds and smell certain things, but the pieces don't go together yet. There's a whole black image that I can't explain to anyone that makes me physically hurt in specific parts of my body. In order not to die, I have to run from the feeling, I've yet to be able to confront the huge fear and panic, so I admire you for having the strength to reach this understanding.
I agree w/you about evil. Many people don't want to believe it exists, but I know it does.
Hang in there,
antigua
Posted by AuntieMel on August 24, 2004, at 16:15:02
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 22, 2004, at 2:22:52
I know if it was me in your place I'd be spittin' naails mad. Frothing at the mouth bad. Wanting to kill mad. No words to express how mad.....
And there isn't anyone on this earth that could convince me that I didn't have the right to be that mad...
Ok, so it isn't legal (or moral) to cause any whysical damage to him. Do you have any burly family members that could hogtie this b-tard? Give you about an hour to scream, rant, rave, spit and generally throw every verbal thing you've got at him? I think that would go a long way - better than therapy - towards making *me* get over it.
And while he's tied down, they could confiscate all his weapons. For the good of the rest of society.
Argh. Let me at him!
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 25, 2004, at 2:46:30
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions- » Shadowplayers721, posted by antigua on August 23, 2004, at 23:59:49
I can relate to that shadow image thing you describe. Oh, that's so scary. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 25, 2004, at 2:56:01
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions- » Shadowplayers721, posted by AuntieMel on August 24, 2004, at 16:15:02
Thank you so much for validating my feelings. I can't tell you how much that means to me. For some reason, I get so many people tell me don't be angry. Anger has it's place just like any emotion. It can be used constructively, but I think most of my anger has been toward myself for not being able to get away. Of course, this isn't rational, but it's that ole self blame thing. It's not productive at all.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 25, 2004, at 9:26:37
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-Auntie, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 25, 2004, at 2:56:01
That's one I'm still trying real hard to do myself.
I think anger is not only "valid" - it's physiologically necessary to release the stress reactions of the body. That's a reasonable and rational thing for the brain to know.
But to *feel* that it is rational is another thing. I tend to keep real or perceived slights inside. Eventually they reach critical mass and I erupt - usually for something trivial. Which makes me feel smaller, and so on, and so on....
There might be something to primal scream therapy, except that it's near impossible to do on command. One time I was so upset (about things in the past) I found myself outside screaming at the top of my lungs, beating on a tree with a branch. The neighbors must have thought I was nuts.
Oh, wait. I *am* nuts.
Posted by antigua on August 25, 2004, at 12:58:06
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-antigua, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 25, 2004, at 2:46:30
On second thought, I hope my post didn't bother you--if it did, I apologize.
antigua
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 25, 2004, at 17:16:45
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-antigua » Shadowplayers721, posted by antigua on August 25, 2004, at 12:58:06
Oh, no. It didn't harm me at all. Thank you for being so caring.
Posted by RH on August 26, 2004, at 22:23:43
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-antigua, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 25, 2004, at 17:16:45
AuntieMell and Shadowplayers721 and all:
Resentment is the emotion whose energy causes us to hold onto memories. For instance, AuntieMel, a few posts above this one you mentioned that you tend to internalize or hold in the resentment of small slights and such, then it builds up and you "release". That is the more or less normal response to enduring the resentment. The key is to not resent in the first place.
Same is true for Shadowplayer721. Yes, it's easy for me to say you have to stop resenting your tormentor. But in the end, there is no other way out. I am sure of this. It's sometimes called letting it go.
All of the negative emotions are entered or initally set up via resentment. This is even true of say, a PTSD resulting from seeing a gruesomely mangled body after a car crash, when you were perhaps only a bystander and played no role in the accident. It is the resentment of the sight and the episode in general that fixes the PTSD in place. Try to think of one negative emotional experience of any kind that does not first start with resentment, even if the resentment only lasts for 5 seconds and then morphs into something else, like fear or anger, etc.
See even when you hear a bump in the night, and you think there may be an intruder in your home, it is resentment of the violation of the home that is in play, along with the fear. So lets say there was a burglar and he heard your footsteps and ran away. Once you know his is gone, the fear subsides, but the resentment will usually persist - "How dare he break into my house" or "what is this world coming to?".
When a child is molested by an adult, that feeling of violation is a resentment, and when, as a child, you are afraid to "tell" on the adult molester, that too causes resentment -- of self.
Usually to get rid of resentment you have to forgive. But it doesn't have to be a kind of personal forgiveness to the perpetrator (which works, too), but a larger more universal forgiveness of understanding how things are and accepting them.
That is why Jesus the psychologist said "Forgive them, for they know not what they do."
And this is the basis of the the age old saying "Forgive and forget".
Forgetting is crucial to happiness.
I am going to post a new thread with one of my favorite essays on resentment (not one I wrote, found it elsehwere on the internet)
Best wishes,
RH
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 26, 2004, at 23:45:38
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-antigua, posted by RH on August 26, 2004, at 22:23:43
I hear what you are saying and I agree with it. However, I have never met anyone that does all this forgiving thing. In my opinion, only the creator can forgive all things that have ever been done. Take for example the serial killer in our area that was caught. He stalked these 7 young women and one by one dismembered their bodies and threw them in a crocodile infested canal years ago. He is up for parole and he says he will do it again. Hmmmm Is a schziophrenic? No. Is is manic depressive? NO. He has not only hurt those women, but their families and the grief will be felt by generations to come. Decentants of this generations will not even realize that depression of grief caused such generational depression.
The fact that murder, rape, suicide, molestation are like wildfire all around us, RH. Doesn't look like much forgiving is going on here to me.
When someone shoves things down my throat as a child, I physically, mentally, and emotionally need to throw it up out of my system and send it packing back to the belonger. Forgiveness can't be forced. For myself, being raped and tortured beyond my mind could even handle as a child, a large part of me blamed myself. Truth is that I was always innocent. I needed to forgive me. So, yes I absolutely agree with the forgiving thingy.
In my on experience, all the family members that tell me to forgive are the the very ones that haven't forgiven anyone and are in denial of their own pain. As I mentioned before, they are still experiencing extreme depression and suicidal actions by proxy or medicating the pain or even using religon. However, they still preach on a daily basis how I need to forgive the very thing they haven't dealt with. It's very sad.
This reminds me of a patient that I had on a cardiac unit that weighed 410 pounds. She had 2 sons murdered from a drug deal gone wrong. She said she forgave everyone involved. However, her body was telling a different story. She said she forgave them to put it out of her mind, but her weight said it was eating her to death.
Everyone wants me to just put my pain away nicely, because it makes them unconfortable and it scratchs on their issues. Well, I don't put my feelings under the covers for anyone anymore, because that made me sick physically. It is freeing to allow how I feel to surface and not be dictated by anyone.
The stages of grieving come when a person is ready and not when others want it to. I am grieving. My mind is grieving. My body is grieving and this is healthy. Dis-ease comes to the body that fails to grieve properly. Forgiving comes after acceptance. Those tv shows want you just get over it now. Well, some of those people pushing those issues have not lost a child, spouse or been rape or molested.
Posted by JenStar on August 27, 2004, at 0:17:58
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-antigua, posted by RH on August 26, 2004, at 22:23:43
RH,
your posts remind me very much of a previous poster named Rod / 64bowtie. Do you know him? YOu might be interested in checking out some of his previous posts. I could be wrong but it seems that you two might share a lot of the same ideologies.JenStar
Posted by antigua on August 27, 2004, at 16:49:44
In reply to Re: Very triggering memories and questions-antigua, posted by RH on August 26, 2004, at 22:23:43
I would prefer to know from whence you speak before you pronounce your opinion about me. I have never corresponded w/you at all.
antigua
Posted by RH on August 28, 2004, at 3:34:22
In reply to Re: Notes on forgiving-RH, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 26, 2004, at 23:45:38
Hi Shadow:
I don't disagree with what you have said, but I have seen forgiveness work in some bad situations, and I have experience with it also. I don't tell you this for me but for you.
Time helps of course.
But apparently, there is another way, a short cut. Remember, about 4 to 6 years ago, those tourists and missionaries who were captured by terrorists in the remote Phillipines? A couple of them were beheaded in full view of the others, and then the rest were killed by the Phillipine Army trying to resuce them, except for one woman, whose husband was amoung the dead. On the Discovery channel video she talked about having forgiven them, and how it saved her from going insane (or words to that effect). She looked at peace.
I don't know if forgiving fully requires a personal forgiveness, as in confronting someone to forgive them. It has more to do with letting it go in a way that says "you don't have me anymore, I'm free".
Other people want you to be free, too.
And yes, there's far too little forgiving going on. That is a big part of the overall problem, that causes generational problems, as you mentioned, and spreads amoung people like a virus.
Regards
RH
Posted by JenStar on August 29, 2004, at 18:06:49
In reply to Re: Notes on forgiving-RH, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 26, 2004, at 23:45:38
Shadowplayers721,I really 'get' what you said about forgiveness, and how saying it and really doing it are separate.
"This reminds me of a patient that I had on a cardiac unit that weighed 410 pounds. She had 2 sons murdered from a drug deal gone wrong. She said she forgave everyone involved. However, her body was telling a different story. She said she forgave them to put it out of her mind, but her weight said it was eating her to death"
That is such a powerful image.
I also think you're right -- there are many people (me included) who exhort others to "get on with it" (in nicer words) and to "just get over it" (again, in nicer words, but with the same meaning) before someone is ready or able to move on, and because I don't understand how hard it is to do.
It's mostly because I empathize with your suffering and I hate to see you suffering...and I WISH you/others COULD "just get over it." That would be so sweet if it were possible! Your message reminds me to be more patient & try to understand better instead of just preaching at someone...
anyway, I hope you're well.
how ARE you doing?
what's up?JenStar
> I hear what you are saying and I agree with it. However, I have never met anyone that does all this forgiving thing. In my opinion, only the creator can forgive all things that have ever been done. Take for example the serial killer in our area that was caught. He stalked these 7 young women and one by one dismembered their bodies and threw them in a crocodile infested canal years ago. He is up for parole and he says he will do it again. Hmmmm Is a schziophrenic? No. Is is manic depressive? NO. He has not only hurt those women, but their families and the grief will be felt by generations to come. Decentants of this generations will not even realize that depression of grief caused such generational depression.
>
> The fact that murder, rape, suicide, molestation are like wildfire all around us, RH. Doesn't look like much forgiving is going on here to me.
>
> When someone shoves things down my throat as a child, I physically, mentally, and emotionally need to throw it up out of my system and send it packing back to the belonger. Forgiveness can't be forced. For myself, being raped and tortured beyond my mind could even handle as a child, a large part of me blamed myself. Truth is that I was always innocent. I needed to forgive me. So, yes I absolutely agree with the forgiving thingy.
>
> In my on experience, all the family members that tell me to forgive are the the very ones that haven't forgiven anyone and are in denial of their own pain. As I mentioned before, they are still experiencing extreme depression and suicidal actions by proxy or medicating the pain or even using religon. However, they still preach on a daily basis how I need to forgive the very thing they haven't dealt with. It's very sad.
>
> This reminds me of a patient that I had on a cardiac unit that weighed 410 pounds. She had 2 sons murdered from a drug deal gone wrong. She said she forgave everyone involved. However, her body was telling a different story. She said she forgave them to put it out of her mind, but her weight said it was eating her to death.
>
> Everyone wants me to just put my pain away nicely, because it makes them unconfortable and it scratchs on their issues. Well, I don't put my feelings under the covers for anyone anymore, because that made me sick physically. It is freeing to allow how I feel to surface and not be dictated by anyone.
>
> The stages of grieving come when a person is ready and not when others want it to. I am grieving. My mind is grieving. My body is grieving and this is healthy. Dis-ease comes to the body that fails to grieve properly. Forgiving comes after acceptance. Those tv shows want you just get over it now. Well, some of those people pushing those issues have not lost a child, spouse or been rape or molested.
>
>
>
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 30, 2004, at 19:01:02
In reply to Re: Notes on forgiving-RH » Shadowplayers721, posted by JenStar on August 29, 2004, at 18:06:49
Thanks for asking, JenStar. I am taking things hour by hour. I have been doing a lot of art work stuff to keep me grounded and focused. It does help. I have been trying to stay semi-social. I go places with the hubby. He really wants a partner in life, so I try to be there. Even if we just go to dinner or visit his mom, I think that means a lot to him. I drift mentally a lot and sometimes I can't control my voice, expressions on my face, and emotions. It difficult. But, I am still here and staying safe. That's pretty important. Thank you.:)
Posted by gardenergirl on August 30, 2004, at 19:03:51
In reply to Re: Notes on forgiving-Jenstar, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 30, 2004, at 19:01:02
I'm glad Jen asked, too. It's good to hear that you are hanging on and that your husband is a source of help if I am reading between the lines enough.
Take care,
gg
Posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 12:07:53
In reply to Re: Notes on forgiving-Jenstar, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 30, 2004, at 19:01:02
Well, I'm glad to hear that you're doing things, getting out, even if it's not totally fun right now. I hope things get better!
Congrats on keeping up with artwork. I bet you are making some really cool things. Would it be too personal to describe some of the art things you make? If so, I apologize. I'd love to hear about them if it's something you're comfortable talking about.
take care!
JenStar
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on September 1, 2004, at 0:14:33
In reply to Re: Notes on forgiving-Jenstar » Shadowplayers721, posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 12:07:53
Recently,I did multi colored shadow horse profiles on plexi glass. I am in the process of going over some of my older projects and finishing them up. Here are some examples,
1. A multi colored butterfly leaving a bouquet of flowers
2. A girl in a robe of red and purple staring at a mirror of an antique dresser. There are faces on the wall with no nose, eyes, or mouths. They have hair and shape to the face and even hats, but no features.
3. A white ghost like image with fire at it's feet surrounded by demon like men reaching toward the ghost.
4. A woman face that looks quite dramatic. Her hair is both blonde and black. Her lips are bright fushia. The white of her eyes are bright green. The color part of her eyes are a swirl of bright red and blue.
5. A female with long medium blonde hair standing in a monet grass. Her dress is many colors and covers her body totally. You can't see any part of her body. A cape flows up behind her of many colors of scarfs. Her face is covered up with a scarf too. Her eyes peek out from behind a mask.
Posted by JenStar on September 1, 2004, at 13:30:20
In reply to Re: a few descriptions of my artwork, posted by Shadowplayers721 on September 1, 2004, at 0:14:33
cool! Those sound very interesting. Are they promised to anyone, or are you keeping them all?
JenStar
Posted by B2chica on September 1, 2004, at 13:53:27
In reply to Re: a few descriptions of my artwork, posted by Shadowplayers721 on September 1, 2004, at 0:14:33
> 2. A girl in a robe of red and purple staring at a mirror of an antique dresser. There are faces on the wall with no nose, eyes, or mouths. They have hair and shape to the face and even hats, but no features.
> 4. A woman face that looks quite dramatic. Her hair is both blonde and black. Her lips are bright fushia. The white of her eyes are bright green. The color part of her eyes are a swirl of bright red and blue.
> 5. A female with long medium blonde hair standing in a monet grass. Her dress is many colors and covers her body totally. You can't see any part of her body. A cape flows up behind her of many colors of scarfs. Her face is covered up with a scarf too. Her eyes peek out from behind a mask.
absolutely incredible.
i am in awe shadows.Very visual description. You are gifted. You can tell these come straight from the heart.
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on September 1, 2004, at 23:35:53
In reply to Re: a few descriptions of my artwork, posted by JenStar on September 1, 2004, at 13:30:20
My therapist wants me to put them in a gallery for sell, but I don't think so. It's like putting a piece of me out there. I think maybe to view, but not for sell. Also, they were done on poster board. I doubt anyone wants artwork done on that. I know what my pictures mean. I didn't in the beginning. But, I will look back on a piece and see the meaning.
The woman with strange eyes has her emotions are locked in her eyes.
The woman at the antique dresser is trying to find her identity.
The woman all covered up is hiding.
The ghost like image is someone who felt invisible and felt that no one could see her tormentors.
There are so many pictures on these poster boards. I never took art classes, but people swear that I have from my pictures. I am often asked where did you learn this technique. Uh, I tried it last night or I don't know. I still think my work look like a very young child did it, but I am okay with that. It doesn't matter to me. But, I am starting to do ones that would be for sell. Still something is missing in those. Not as much is revealed. It's a conflict right now.
This is the end of the thread.
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