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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by gardenergirl on August 30, 2004, at 23:32:48
In reply to Re: And over-sensitivity is a curse » Jai Narayan, posted by ron1953 on August 30, 2004, at 23:27:33
> I think a lot of folks need to be shaken out of their naive and childlike views of a perfect world without conflict.
Wow, how sweet. Another new poster who wants to share what Babblers need.
gg
Posted by ron1953 on August 30, 2004, at 23:57:18
In reply to Re: And over-sensitivity is a curse, posted by gardenergirl on August 30, 2004, at 23:32:48
The following exchange was the basis for all of the contention. People's cages got rattled because of my reply. Funny that SHE said, "I feel so ridiculous", then a bit of ridicule blew everybody's doors off.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 25, 2004, at 12:54:46
I feel so ridiculous sometimes. I cannot stand bad grammar, either written or spoken. I cannot stand that people no longer understand the purpose and use of the apostrophe. I have been looking over MANY resumes recently since I am on a search committee for a position opening and the quality of grammar is absolutely atrocious. If I see a spelling mistake, misused apostophe, using "your" instead of "you're" I don't even consider them. People at work think I am totally extreme.
Please tell me I am not the only one who appreciates good grammar. Is anyone out there alarmed by what they see and hear?
Why is the apostrophe SO ABUSED????
DO they not learn grammar anymore in schools? Do they no longer diagram sentences? What's the deal?
--------------------------------------------------
Posted by ron1953 on August 29, 2004, at 11:46:04
In reply to Apostrophe Abuse, posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 25, 2004, at 12:54:46
I, too appreciate good grammer, spelling, sentence structure, etc.. And I do notice the deficiencies so many have using the language. I see it everywhere. Even the so-called professionals, writing in newspapers and magazines often have a poor command of the language. The President of th United States can't even pronounce the word "nuclear" correctly!
BUT.....am I bugged by it? No. English is the most complicated language in the world. It's not reasonable to expect mastery from everybody. The purpose of language is to COMMUNICATE. Are you more interested in what a poster has to say or how they say it?
If this bothers you and the others that agree as much as it seems to, I'd hate to see your reaction to a real problem.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 31, 2004, at 0:26:30
In reply to I suppose everyone had their say, posted by ron1953 on August 30, 2004, at 23:57:18
Well, not everyone has had their say. I suspect Dr. Bob will weigh in on this thread as it appears there are multiple civility issues.
You seem a bit calmer now. Can you talk a little bit about exactly what was so upsetting? Frankly, I never saw a reply to you from Miss Honeychurch (who is quite aptly named, actually). Was there something perhaps unrelated going on that was triggered by this thread? I admit I was surprised by the what appeared to me to be a sudden rise in intensity of your responses.
Regards,
gg
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 31, 2004, at 2:40:52
In reply to Re: I suppose everyone had their say » ron1953, posted by gardenergirl on August 31, 2004, at 0:26:30
"I am a keepin on a fast driving, but I am not gonna bee a lying . That I am a dying to attact the defying while the doc is off lining. So, I just keep on a sighin while I continue to drive like I am a flyin on the streets of..." (BAM)
THE OLE TYMER RYMER JUST CRASHED INTO A STOP SIGN. PLEASE PARDON THE INTERRUPTION.
Posted by ron1953 on August 31, 2004, at 8:04:47
In reply to Re: I suppose everyone had their say » ron1953, posted by gardenergirl on August 31, 2004, at 0:26:30
gg:
You are the last person I expected to hear from, considering the epithet exchange. Good for you - someone who actually has guts (maybe "guts" is really a very apt word for what I mean - something of substance INSIDE). Actually, I was never really upset, just annoyed. Annoyed because I saw what I see too much of every day, in many areas of life. People love to talk but they don't listen very well. When they experience something they don't like, they respond reflexively without bothering to take the time to consider the emotions underlying their reaction; did they really think about what happened and the fact that whatever it was could be interpreted in multiple ways? Did they consider their own beliefs and "filters" before reacting? Did they take a moment to laugh at themselves for having such an instantaneous negative reaction? Did they consider that the "other side" just might have an interesting and possibly useful point?
You could say, "Gee, Ron, it was only a little thing about grammar". The subject doesn't matter. What matters is communication and more importantly, self-awareness. All of the big misunderstandings start with little ones that escalate. Hence, family discord, divorce, lost friendships, cultural strife, political upheaval, war...... See what I mean? All because we may not listen, truly listen, to the many "voices" in play during any interaction.
Maybe I'm over-sensitive about lousy communication. But all I have to do is pick up a newspaper or watch the evening news to remind me why I tend to be that way.
Posted by ron1953 on August 31, 2004, at 8:25:39
In reply to Re: I suppose everyone had their say, posted by ron1953 on August 31, 2004, at 8:04:47
I hope Bob, as a therapist, reads and thinks about the entire thread, the definition and use/misuse of "civility" in this forum. His thoughts and cautions about civility are subjective (Bob, I can read a dictionary, too). Maybe it was uncivil for people to be criticizing others' poor grammar. Pretty blurry, huh?
If people want to hide in their private Pollyanna worlds, fine. Reality will still be the wolf at their door.
So, before Bob erases all of this stuff and bans me from the boards, I hope he'll give it some good thought and really listen to the many voices, literally and figuratively.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 31, 2004, at 9:28:04
In reply to MOSTLYcloudy (nm), posted by ron1953 on August 30, 2004, at 19:34:05
> MOSTLYcloudy
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel put down or to anyone who's asked you not to. I've already asked you to be civil, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
Sharing something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
If you or anyone else has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or is interested in alternative ways of expressing oneself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Also, follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Atticus on August 31, 2004, at 9:40:56
In reply to BABBLE FROM A BUNCH OF FUCKING PSYCHOS (nm) » partlycloudy, posted by ron1953 on August 30, 2004, at 22:37:50
Ron,
Just what is it that you're trying to accomplish here? What is the purpose of all your relentlessly hostile posts? What do you think you're proving? I'm just throwing these questions out for your consideration, but I don't want a direct answer from you. Please do not post to me under any circumstances. Ever. All your posts only seem to have one purpose: to cause hurt to the people here. I can't fathom why someone would put so much effort into doing that. Before (and if) you return to Babble, please give my questions some thought. Atticus
Posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 10:05:34
In reply to Re: BABBLE FROM A BUNCH OF FUCKING PSYCHOS » ron1953, posted by Atticus on August 31, 2004, at 9:40:56
here's my armchair [read: complete layperson with a hint of bias] analysis of the kind of person who would post such things.
he's (she's?) probably a person with a rage issue, poor self-esteem, and lack of friends. Anger at the inability to manage life causes him/her to lash out here just because he/she wants to share the anger and pain he's feeling. It a cowardly way to act out, because the web offers anonymity and it's easy to run from the mess once it's made. This person might not be as willing to act this way in RL!Or, he/she could just be a troubled teen with too much time on their hands, wanting to cause a little ruckus to prove to themself that they have an effect on the world. (Look ma, I poke them, and they bleed! Wow! Let's do it again!)
In the end, although I feel irritation at this person, I also feel really sad for them. We should probably all just ignore their posts (if they ever decide to come back!)
Anyway,
hope you're all well and that the old blood pressure is not thru the roof (mine went there but has since come back down.)
JenStar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 31, 2004, at 10:35:57
In reply to Re: BABBLE FROM A BUNCH OF FUCKING PSYCHOS » ron1953, posted by Atticus on August 31, 2004, at 9:40:56
> Ron,
> Just what is it that you're trying to accomplish here? What is the purpose of all your relentlessly hostile posts? What do you think you're proving? I'm just throwing these questions out for your consideration, but I don't want a direct answer from you. Please do not post to me under any circumstances. Ever. All your posts only seem to have one purpose: to cause hurt to the people here. I can't fathom why someone would put so much effort into doing that. Before (and if) you return to Babble, please give my questions some thought. Atticus"All your posts only seem to have one purpose: to cause hurt to the people here. "
This is the sort of thing that often arises from a controversy. As Bob would say, two wrongs don't make a right. You can still say the same thing, in so many words, if you said, for example: "After I read each of your posts, I feel hurt and angry." You don't directly measure his intent, as you cannot possible know that. You describe your personal reaction, instead.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 31, 2004, at 10:38:36
In reply to my thoughts...Worth a penny? You decide! :) » Atticus, posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 10:05:34
> here's my armchair [read: complete layperson with a hint of bias] analysis of the kind of person who would post such things.
Characterizing the poster is quite a different thing than characterizing your own feelings. I hope you reconsider your comments.
If I speculate about the age of the poster, I would take the 1953 as a year of birth. I don't see a teen being born back then. ;-)
> In the end, although I feel irritation at this person, I also feel really sad for them. We should probably all just ignore their posts (if they ever decide to come back!)
>
> Anyway,
> hope you're all well and that the old blood pressure is not thru the roof (mine went there but has since come back down.)
> JenStarLar
Posted by Atticus on August 31, 2004, at 10:38:42
In reply to my thoughts...Worth a penny? You decide! :) » Atticus, posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 10:05:34
Your thoughts are alway worth at least a nickel (just kidding! ;) ). One of your scenarios is probably correct. Granted, I've only been a Babbler for less than six weeks, but I've never seen anything like this particular string of posts from anyone before. Yow! They didn't communicate a sense of pain to me as much as a sense of unbridled fury at the whole world. Maybe he/she's been on other message boards where this kind of flaming people is the norm. Impossible to say. But the thread sure made for some eye-popping reading while it ran on unchecked. :) Atticus
Posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 10:53:32
In reply to Re: my thoughts...Worth a penny? You decide! :) » JenStar, posted by Larry Hoover on August 31, 2004, at 10:38:36
Lar, you're right that a person can't know exactly what someone else is thinking...can only make assumptions.
But sometimes I think we are too politically correct and too 'gentle' to people who act out and deliberately cause trouble.
Also, we have to make SOME assumptions just to get by in the world, even if they are just a starting point and we continually revise from there. Not all assumptions are wrong, even if they are unpleasant in nature.
And sometimes it's OK to let people know where our personal limits are, and that they are not allowed to step on them. An "I" statement is now always the best way to do this.
Of course I recognize that babble is goverened by a specific set of rules which don't necessarily allow for that!
I'm a huge believer in "I" statements....IF the person you're talking with is a person capable of reasoning in the same way, and a person who feels bound by the same rules of behavior.
For example, at work we are hugely into constructive confrontation, and are all over the "I" statements. Part of the reason it works so effectively is that the corporate culture enforces it, and people who work there buy into that interaction philosophy. You know that if you start an "I" statement, the other person will know what you are doing, will recognize it, and will get into rhythm with you to solve the problem.
I think there are times when dealing with an irrational person that "I" statements are completely ineffective.
What do you think?
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 10:57:02
In reply to Re: my thoughts...Worth a penny? You decide! :) » JenStar, posted by Larry Hoover on August 31, 2004, at 10:38:36
Agree with you about the teen thing -- I read a few more posts (after I made the comments) and decided that the verbiage and way of writing was not teen-style. Also picked up on the date.
JS
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 31, 2004, at 11:12:54
In reply to Re: my thoughts...Worth a penny? You decide! :) » Larry Hoover, posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 10:53:32
> And sometimes it's OK to let people know where our personal limits are, and that they are not allowed to step on them. An "I" statement is now always the best way to do this.
Actually, I think a boundary statement is the ultimate I statement.
> Of course I recognize that babble is goverened by a specific set of rules which don't necessarily allow for that!
Which is what I was addressing. This is Babble. Out there is out there.
> I think there are times when dealing with an irrational person that "I" statements are completely ineffective.Yes, but there are many options other than confrontation and labelling the behaviour, too. I don't want to see nice people getting blocked because they got swept up in a flood of emotion.
The concept of "feeding the troll" comes to mind. Ignoring a troll is truly the best tactic, although it might feel better to confront them.
> What do you think?
>
> JenStarI've learned something while I'm here, I think. Learned the hard way, too. Feel free to follow in my footsteps. ;-)
Lar
Posted by AuntieMel on August 31, 2004, at 11:52:13
In reply to Re: my thoughts...Worth a penny? You decide! :) » JenStar, posted by Larry Hoover on August 31, 2004, at 11:12:54
Actually, I think Jen might have let herself off the hook from the beginning.
"here's my armchair [read: complete layperson with a hint of bias] analysis of the kind of person who would post such things."
By saying "kind of person" she (in my twisted opinion) was not actually accusing this poster. At least she wasn't if you strictly follow the letter of BabbleLaw.
And the post mentioned irritation *and* sadness, so I didn't read any accusations there either.
How mysterious are the ways of Babble.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 31, 2004, at 12:09:46
In reply to It all started........, posted by ron1953 on August 30, 2004, at 22:55:02
Ron, how is my name "dubious?" And how did I overreact to your post? I never even posted back to you.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 31, 2004, at 12:12:13
In reply to Re: And over-sensitivity is a curse » gardenergirl, posted by ron1953 on August 30, 2004, at 23:13:23
Again, what was my response???? I never responded to your initial post when you expressed concern for my apparent overreaction.
For the record, I'm just having fun.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 31, 2004, at 12:26:17
In reply to Re: And over-sensitivity is a curse, posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 31, 2004, at 12:12:13
Again, another thread of mine gone bad. All I wanted to do was have some fun talking about commas and vica versa and why the apostrophe is so misunderstood. I wanted us all to have some good old fashioned langauge fun!
It sickens me that this has happened.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 31, 2004, at 12:28:59
In reply to Sorry all, posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 31, 2004, at 12:26:17
> Again, another thread of mine gone bad. All I wanted to do was have some fun talking about commas and vica versa and why the apostrophe is so misunderstood. I wanted us all to have some good old fashioned langauge fun!
>
> It sickens me that this has happened.What happened wasn't your doing, Ms. H. I had fun with it, too, before somebody took offense with our offense.
Lar
Posted by partlycloudy on August 31, 2004, at 12:32:26
In reply to Sorry all, posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 31, 2004, at 12:26:17
I had a good thread go bad on me, too, over on the Psych board. It's not your doing at all!! Don't even give it another thought. It's already in the past and will be archived before we know it.
pc
Posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 13:21:51
In reply to Sorry all, posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 31, 2004, at 12:26:17
Miss Honeychurch,
I loved your post and the subsequent follow-up thread and thought it was great fun. Please don't stop posting fun stuff! :)Of course I also like a good scrap (bad me) and naturally I had to get into the fray once the angry poster got into it.
But seriously, this was not your fault. Your post was innocuous and cool and interesting. I look forward to future posts from you!
JenStar
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 31, 2004, at 13:40:50
In reply to my thoughts...Worth a penny? You decide! :) » Atticus, posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 10:05:34
> all your relentlessly hostile posts
> All your posts only seem to have one purpose: to cause hurt to the people here.
>
> Atticus> he's (she's?) probably a person with a rage issue, poor self-esteem, and lack of friends...
>
> JenStarLarry already commented on the above, but for the record, please don't jump to conclusions about others, post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, or use language that could offend others (even in a subject line carried over from a someone else's post).
If you or anyone else has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or is interested in alternative ways of expressing oneself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Also, follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by AuntieMel on August 31, 2004, at 15:39:36
In reply to Sorry all, posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 31, 2004, at 12:26:17
That something that was so deliciously fun had to be messed up.
A good argument for putting anyone we think might be ruining the party on 'ignore.'
Posted by AuntieMel on August 31, 2004, at 15:43:09
In reply to Re: my thoughts...Worth a penny? You decide! :) » JenStar, posted by Larry Hoover on August 31, 2004, at 11:12:54
<<<<<The concept of "feeding the troll" comes to mind. Ignoring a troll is truly the best tactic, although it might feel better to confront them.
Did you ever play adventure?
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