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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fi on November 22, 2001, at 8:08:58
Well, to anyone else I would call myself something nicer than a hoarder (eg 'squirrel'). It seems a trivial thing, both to get stressed about and to deal with (why cant I just throw it away)? But I manage to make it a constant drag to myself- loads of 'shoulds' and no action. Apart from needing several days warning before any visitors so I can compact it all into my bedroom (and try to maintain a route to my bed from the door!)
Its mainly paper, plus some clothes and household things. Most are hard to chuck because they are interesting (and I have a hopeless memory) or useful (or potentially useful??) I limit what I buy or order, but still end up with masses of stuff.
Has anyone else any ideas on how to deal with this?
Posted by robinibor on November 22, 2001, at 10:54:50
In reply to Hoarding..., posted by fi on November 22, 2001, at 8:08:58
Hi fi
I'd keep it. Too many times, just after Dick convinced me to get rid of something...someone else important to me could really use it.
How about just trying to organize the stuff more neatly. Get some files for paper info, stacking boxes, that kind of thing?
Robin
> Well, to anyone else I would call myself something nicer than a hoarder (eg 'squirrel'). It seems a trivial thing, both to get stressed about and to deal with (why cant I just throw it away)? But I manage to make it a constant drag to myself- loads of 'shoulds' and no action. Apart from needing several days warning before any visitors so I can compact it all into my bedroom (and try to maintain a route to my bed from the door!)
>
> Its mainly paper, plus some clothes and household things. Most are hard to chuck because they are interesting (and I have a hopeless memory) or useful (or potentially useful??) I limit what I buy or order, but still end up with masses of stuff.
>
> Has anyone else any ideas on how to deal with this?
Posted by Dinah on November 22, 2001, at 11:34:22
In reply to Re: Hoarding..., posted by robinibor on November 22, 2001, at 10:54:50
Fi,
Of course, I don't know the scope of your hoarding, but hoarding can be a sign of obsessive compulsive disorder and medications for OCD can help. I have OCD that shows itself another way, but my mother is a classic hoarder. Some rooms in her house can't be entered at all and others rooms have paths made between piles of papers, books, etc. piled over my head. It seems clear to me that she has OCD, and that I probably inherited it from her, even though mine is a different type of OCD.
Of course, my mother doesn't see her hoarding as a problem at all and wouldn't be interested in medications.
Again, I don't know the extent of your hoarding, but you might want to mention it to your doctor if it is a problem to you.
Posted by tina on November 22, 2001, at 16:42:15
In reply to Hoarding..., posted by fi on November 22, 2001, at 8:08:58
>
> Has anyone else any ideas on how to deal with this?A shovel? :)
Posted by susan C on November 22, 2001, at 20:36:01
In reply to Hoarding..., posted by fi on November 22, 2001, at 8:08:58
www.FlyLady.net
I call it 'my daily nag service'. Little bits at a time. has helped me not be overwhelmed by and satisfying my need for a 'tidy house' without the expense of a housekeeper and helps me understand how to deal with 'clutter', the feelings or 'voice' of 'oh, someday I may use that' or, 'this is such a good price I will geta dozen or maybe even TWO dozen...'
hope that helps
mouse with a dust cloth
susan C
Posted by dreamer on November 22, 2001, at 22:17:18
In reply to Hoarding..., posted by fi on November 22, 2001, at 8:08:58
Posted by fi on November 23, 2001, at 6:57:01
In reply to Hoarding..., posted by fi on November 22, 2001, at 8:08:58
Just to say thanks, all. What a wonderful range of replies!
There are obviously people worse than me (hasnt even reached *knee* height yet), which puts it in proportion. I love the idea of the daily nag- will combine some more efficient storage with some daily chucking out!
I'm particularly grateful on this as the therapist I used to go to was always completely disinterested in my concerns about hoarding. You have taken me more seriously and also come up with some new perspectives and ideas.
fi
Posted by kid_A on November 23, 2001, at 8:45:06
In reply to Re: I hoard dark matter as a matter of interest (nm), posted by dreamer on November 22, 2001, at 22:17:18
Posted by Jenna S. on November 24, 2001, at 19:03:08
In reply to Hoarding..., posted by fi on November 22, 2001, at 8:08:58
Fi
> Has anyone else any ideas on how to deal with this?
There is a great newsgroup on this topic called alt.recovery.clutter. And one of the best books on the subject is Organizing from the Inside Out, by Julie Morgenstern. I have it and it has helped me. My hoarding sounds similar to yours, it's not a great deal and lots of people are far bigger packrats than me, but it is still a problem, and a problem which grows (literally) over time!
Julie Morgenstern identifies various psychological issues which can be behind why people hoard. Keeping things for sentimental reasons is one of them, and one possible solution to this is to take a photo of the item to remind you of it. There are loads of other tips and ideas. Also lots of websites, and you can learn a lot from the newsgroup. I don't post there but I have been reading for a long time. They have a great acronym for what you describe above with your visitor scenario - CHAOS - can't have anyone over syndrome :-)
Hope this helps :-)
Jenna
Posted by Noa on November 24, 2001, at 20:46:49
In reply to Re: Hoarding..., posted by Jenna S. on November 24, 2001, at 19:03:08
> >CHAOS - can't have anyone over syndrome :-)
Love it.
I have always fluctuated between amassing stuff and purging it. But in recent years, I've developed something akin to hoarding--total slovenliness, leading to chaos (and, consequently, CHAOS).
I keep trying to get a handle on it, with only modest success. It is overwhelming to get it cleaned up. My therapist and I have been trying to figure it out for a long while. Probably a reflection of self-loathing and sense of futility. I don't know.
It's not exactly hoarding, but it has some similar features and outcomes.
I think hoarding is more common than we know, because people are good at hiding it.
Posted by quilter on November 24, 2001, at 22:32:16
In reply to Re: Hoarding..., posted by Noa on November 24, 2001, at 20:46:49
as my daughters would say. I keep things, (especially papers) for fear of forgetting something or for inspiration. Now that the mess has gotten ahead of me I despair of ever getting over CHAOS.
I have been wondering how your less mess campaign was going.
Quilter> > >CHAOS - can't have anyone over syndrome :-)
>
> Love it.
>
> I have always fluctuated between amassing stuff and purging it. But in recent years, I've developed something akin to hoarding--total slovenliness, leading to chaos (and, consequently, CHAOS).
>
> I keep trying to get a handle on it, with only modest success. It is overwhelming to get it cleaned up. My therapist and I have been trying to figure it out for a long while. Probably a reflection of self-loathing and sense of futility. I don't know.
>
> It's not exactly hoarding, but it has some similar features and outcomes.
>
> I think hoarding is more common than we know, because people are good at hiding it.
Posted by Fi on November 25, 2001, at 12:56:12
In reply to Re: Hoarding..., posted by Jenna S. on November 24, 2001, at 19:03:08
Jenna
That's so useful -thanks lots!! CHAOS indeed....
Fi
Posted by Fi on November 25, 2001, at 13:08:42
In reply to Re: I am SO there..... » Noa, posted by quilter on November 24, 2001, at 22:32:16
Thanks, all. I have done a *little* chucking and filing -always sounds easier as an idea than when actually trying to do it. I realise I need to throw things even tho they are useful. I've sometimes tried (unsuccessfully) to bargain with
myself that I would do a little bit at a time (eg one bag full of magazines). Just in case any of you have more willpower than me and find this works! I would certainly recommend it for things which have to be done (eg washing things)- try just a little if that is all you can face at the moment,and give yourself lots of praise.A classic CHAOS moment I have had was tidying up before calling the police after I had been burgled (the burglars hadnt caused any additional mess). Still had to explain to the cops that it always looked like this...!
I think there is something deep about it- the fact it makes me (and others) feel bad, when it isnt any risk to life or limb (as long as you dont try to cross the room in the dark!)
fi
> as my daughters would say. I keep things, (especially papers) for fear of forgetting something or for inspiration. Now that the mess has gotten ahead of me I despair of ever getting over CHAOS.
>
> I have been wondering how your less mess campaign was going.
> Quilter
>
> > > >CHAOS - can't have anyone over syndrome :-)
> >
> > Love it.
> >
> > I have always fluctuated between amassing stuff and purging it. But in recent years, I've developed something akin to hoarding--total slovenliness, leading to chaos (and, consequently, CHAOS).
> >
> > I keep trying to get a handle on it, with only modest success. It is overwhelming to get it cleaned up. My therapist and I have been trying to figure it out for a long while. Probably a reflection of self-loathing and sense of futility. I don't know.
> >
> > It's not exactly hoarding, but it has some similar features and outcomes.
> >
> > I think hoarding is more common than we know, because people are good at hiding it.
Posted by Jenna S. on November 25, 2001, at 18:02:35
In reply to Re: Hoarding... » Jenna S., posted by Fi on November 25, 2001, at 12:56:12
Fi
> That's so useful -thanks lots!! CHAOS indeed....
I'm glad you found it helpful :-)
Jenna
Posted by Noa on November 27, 2001, at 17:17:09
In reply to Re: I am SO there..... » Noa, posted by quilter on November 24, 2001, at 22:32:16
> I have been wondering how your less mess campaign was going.
> QuilterIt goes. I cleaned most of it up this summer because I was having my niece come for a week. But the bedroom remained rather chaotic, despite the fact that I really did make a major dent in it. Now, the dining room table is back to chaos and so is the table in the front hallway. The kitchen is not great, but not anything like it was at its worst.
Last year, I rather manically got rid of a lot of stuff when I heard on the radio about a collection campaign for a large family burned out of their house. It was great because I quickly gathered a lot of stuff and just brought it to the collection site and it was gone and I haven't missed any of it. In the summer cleaning campaign, I also was able to donate a lot of stuff.
Posted by Noa on November 27, 2001, at 17:20:36
In reply to Re: I am SO there....., posted by Fi on November 25, 2001, at 13:08:42
> A classic CHAOS moment I have had was tidying up before calling the police after I had been burgled (the burglars hadnt caused any additional mess). Still had to explain to the cops that it always looked like this...!
I think about this all the time--how would I explain to the police that it always looks like it had been rifled through by burglars!
> I think there is something deep about it- the fact it makes me (and others) feel bad
I agree, for me, anyway....Easy to say, hard to change.....
As for risk to life and limb--I have found that it is a bit more dangerous--easier to trip, etc. But also, stuff gets ruined and broken easily, too. Sometimes I get so mad at myself if something important gets ruined. But as I said, easy to say, hard to change....
Posted by Chris A. on November 29, 2001, at 17:07:00
In reply to Re: I am SO there....., posted by Noa on November 27, 2001, at 17:20:36
I identify with all of you. Today six cans of tuna hit me on the forehead when I went to get something out of the pantry. I can legitimately blame my hubby for this one, as he had stacked them ten cans high on the top shelf. He also gets credit for the time I broke my wrist as a result of tripping over a strip of oak he had put at the entrance to the garage. It required surgery. Keeping clutter under control is very stressful for me. Not keeping it under control can be down right dangerous. I am organizationally challenged, but would like to have everything neat, tidy and find-able. Social isolation worsens because I am embarrassed to have anyone over. It is also hard to clean with so much clutter. I would hire someone to help me go through it all if there were someone who could truly help. It is all very overwhelming. It doesn't help that two members of my family refuse to throw anything away. My hubby has been known to dig things out of the trash that no one would ever want or use. Shame on me, but I've even considered getting rid of nearly everything if he gets deployed. I feel guilty that I've even thought of it. My 16 year old, who takes after her Dad, recently wrote a speech entitled "The Follies of Collecting." I would post it if I could find it, as it is very funny. I think my hubby can't let go of anything because his parents have never kept anything. He even collects on his computers and his palm. One of my daughter's friend came over, took one look at the screen and said "That hard drive is going to crash. It is jam packed."
I am convinced this issue can contribute to and worsen depression, anxiety and social isolation. It gets to be a vicious cycle. It is hard to do anything about it when there is no motivation to get out of bed. My memory problems are so bad that I don't even remember what we have squirreled away here!
Sorry for such a long vent.Chris A.
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