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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Krazy Kat on October 29, 2001, at 17:41:04
In reply to Re: ok, ashamed but here..., posted by Greg A. on October 29, 2001, at 16:42:37
Things to do, things to do.
Perhaps we should do a list...
Posted by Greg A. on October 29, 2001, at 17:48:52
In reply to Re: ok, ashamed but here..., posted by Greg A. on October 29, 2001, at 16:42:37
Julie . . .
Did you ask to go home from work today? Is something specific bothering you? Or do you just feel like you have to get out of there? Don’t you love all the questions?
What feelings do you have to get away from?Inquisitive Greg.
Posted by juliedealer on October 29, 2001, at 18:56:42
In reply to I have some questions . . . , posted by Greg A. on October 29, 2001, at 17:48:52
we have this wonderful thing at work, called the EO list, it is a voluntary list,If you are willing to go home and they don't need you ... you can go home. But I do volunteer to stay if they are short handed also. So there is no problem there, I've been there for 4 years now and I am a good employee, but I could be so much better. Today I got home about 1:30 pm it is now 7 and I have had about 6 beers.
I hate this life, but I hate the life without alcohol too.
Please more advice concerning talking to the Pdoc. He is paid by company insurance,
julie
Posted by juliedealer on October 29, 2001, at 19:05:28
In reply to OH, MY JOB, and drinking, posted by juliedealer on October 29, 2001, at 18:56:42
> greg,
I hope you don't mind, but how old are you? the only reason i ask is you ask what is bothering me. I'm wondering if you are facing some of the same questions I face at this point in my life.julie
Posted by Gracie2 on October 29, 2001, at 20:18:32
In reply to some questions for greg, posted by juliedealer on October 29, 2001, at 19:05:28
I only drink on an empty stomach, otherwise food kills the "buzz". If I have a glass of wine and a plate of food in front of me, they sort of cancel each other out...I feel like I must eat at least some dinner, when all I really want is the wine,
so I don't enjoy either.
Maybe this is peculiar but prehaps you could become more interested in cooking and eating? I love watching Julia Child cook - a little wine in the pot, a little sip for herself, she kills me.
(Incidentally, real gourmet cooks never use bottled "cooking wine" - it's inferior wine loaded with salt. Only the good stuff goes into the sauce - followed, of course, by a little sippy
for the cook). By the time you finished cooking and sat down to a really good meal, your taste for wine would be at least partially sated and your excellent meal would fill you up enough to make more alcohol uninteresting to you. Particularly if you've had a rich dessert, which calls for espresso.Even if this isn't a workable idea for you, prehaps you can be creative enough to come up with some other idea that makes you stop drinking.
I've known many people who swear that the only way to quit a habit is cold-turkey, and I believe this is also a premise of AA - that you can never touch alcohol again, ever. I don't really agree with this line of thinking. If you normally drink a 6-pack of beer nightly and you've cut down to 4 beers, and then 3, I think you are to be congratulated instead of condemned for drinking at all. While AA has helped countless people, I don't believe there is a strict set of rules that applies to every person in every circumstance under any situation, whether you are trying to quit smoking or lose weight or buy a house. You must find out what works for you, celebrate your successes and, instead of beating yourself up over a relapse, you realize that tomorrow is another day and a new chance to try again.
-Gracie
PS. Every day is a new life to a wise man.
Posted by Greg A. on October 29, 2001, at 20:19:56
In reply to some questions for greg, posted by juliedealer on October 29, 2001, at 19:05:28
Julie, I am 49. I have been treated for depression for about 15 years or so. The first ten years I was adamant that I was not depressed, only anxious.
Here's an anxious day in the life for you. Awake with feeling of tightness in chest. Keep taking deep breaths to try to get rid of feeling. Only confirms that it is still there. Go to work. Try to avoid people. Hard when you are a public servant. Don't want phone to ring. Deal with things as best I can. Make it through work day. Enjoy nothing. Only reason to look forward to the end of the day is it's closer to the time I can drink and try to put a damper on the anxiety. Get some exercise - token effort to compensate for drinking. Have dinner with family. Say little. Act irritable. Watch TV. Drink. Drink enough to start to think I am okay. Go to bed. Get up next a.m. with slight hangover and tightness in chest. Repeat ad nauseum.Greg.
Posted by Gracie2 on October 29, 2001, at 20:56:01
In reply to I have some questions . . . , posted by Greg A. on October 29, 2001, at 17:48:52
I must add that I am getting really, really tired of all the endless restrictions and rules and the
countless warnings of how everything we eat or drink, every drug we take, everything we do - the music we listen to, the programs we watch on TV,
the cars we drive, the cleaning solutions we use in our house, the way we raise our kids - how harmful and wrong it all is.
As far as I'm concerned, laudanum should still be available OTC. I love good coffee and fine wine and beef stroganoff. I love my little Nissan and would rather go to Barnes & Noble than the gym.
Think about two things that have happened rather recently; the "French Paradox" - where researchers had to grudgingly admit that the French appeared to be living longer and healthier lives because they drink red wine;
and Linda McCartney, wife of Paul McCartney, who was a devoted vegetarian ("never eat anything with a face") and published several cookbooks on
eating to live a healthy life; she died at a fairly young age of breast cancer.
I'm just not convinced that it's entirely worth it to drink Evian, eat a macrobiotic diet, swallow cartloads of vitamins and work out regularly, just to step off the curb and be run over by a bus. I'm not condoning alcoholism or drug abuse or gluttony, but I do believe that moderation is preferable to the self-flagellation of complete abstinence...unless, of course, that is "your thing". Great, good for you, but leave the rest of us out of it.
-Gracie
Posted by juliedealer on October 29, 2001, at 21:12:34
In reply to Even more input, posted by Gracie2 on October 29, 2001, at 20:56:01
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Posted by juliedealer on October 29, 2001, at 21:16:22
In reply to Re: some questions for greg, posted by Greg A. on October 29, 2001, at 20:19:56
> Julie, I am 49. I have been treated for depression for about 15 years or so. The first ten years I was adamant that I was not depressed, only anxious.
> Here's an anxious day in the life for you. Awake with feeling of tightness in chest. Keep taking deep breaths to try to get rid of feeling. Only confirms that it is still there. Go to work. Try to avoid people. Hard when you are a public servant. Don't want phone to ring. Deal with things as best I can. Make it through work day. Enjoy nothing. Only reason to look forward to the end of the day is it's closer to the time I can drink and try to put a damper on the anxiety. Get some exercise - token effort to compensate for drinking. Have dinner with family. Say little. Act irritable. Watch TV. Drink. Drink enough to start to think I am okay. Go to bed. Get up next a.m. with slight hangover and tightness in chest. Repeat ad nauseum.
>
> Greg.
Posted by Greg A. on October 30, 2001, at 0:34:12
In reply to oh god greg you are my twin, posted by juliedealer on October 29, 2001, at 21:16:22
Tell me more Julie . . . when you feel like it.
Greg
Posted by Greg A. on October 30, 2001, at 0:47:25
In reply to Even more input, posted by Gracie2 on October 29, 2001, at 20:56:01
Gracie,
I agree with some of your sentiments. If we paid strict attention to the all the warnings and supposed perils attendant to what we eat, drink, drive, breath, talk into, look at, etc. there would be little there to live for.
Drinking in moderation is great. Lots of people do it and I'm sure it either does no harm or even prolongs their life and makes it more enjoyable. But I don't drink in moderation. I don't drink to enjoy life. I drink to numb life. And it doesn't work.
BTW, another recent study of the longer-lived French wine drinkers indicated that one reason for the longer life span was that it is the more affluent who drink wine in moderation; and they also ate better, had better medical care and so on. The rest of us were beer swilling slobs who would inevitably die much earlier of diseases with horrible names. (Linda McCartney was the anomaly in the study and she never could sing anyways)
Greg
Posted by Gracie2 on October 30, 2001, at 1:53:55
In reply to Re: Even more input, posted by Greg A. on October 30, 2001, at 0:47:25
Yeah, they gave Linda a tamborine and a microphone like she could really sing (snort) or put her behind the keyboards where she could pretend to play.
-G
Posted by Krazy Kat on October 30, 2001, at 10:47:47
In reply to Even more input, posted by Gracie2 on October 29, 2001, at 20:56:01
Gracie:
I agree. I would actually rather live a shorter, "more fun" life than a long one eating oat bran every morning. This is a change for me, as I was overly health conscious in my early to mid twenties (except for drinking, LOL).
My sister sent me a book titled "Eat, Drink and Be Merry". It's pretty good.
I also think of my favorite era of comedians, Jack Benny, George Burns, Bob Hope - they certainly enjoyed a plethora of vices in moderation and they lived far longer than Frank Short will, I guarantee you.
- K.
I love Julia, as well. She wouldn't be half as fun, without her little sips of wine.
Posted by Krazy Kat on October 30, 2001, at 10:59:38
In reply to OH, MY JOB, and drinking, posted by juliedealer on October 29, 2001, at 18:56:42
this is a tough one. From my experience, I would explain that it's a concern of yours at times - unfortunately, I do feel you have to play it down at first. You can always delve into it more deeply later and just explain that you weren't comfortable enough to lay it all out in the beginning.
Pdoc's really shouldn't be shocked - it's such a common feature in depressives and manic depressives. Unfortunately mine initially suggested I go to AA, which is not even a minute possibility for me, so that just shut me up for awhile.
The thing is that your pdoc can probably help determine what is connected to the drinking (i.e., mine is Really bad when I'm manic) and there are meds that can help you stop if you ever want to take that line. And, alcohol does interfere with your med regimine, so he or she needs to know.
But, if they make you uncomfortable, back away. No need to be made to feel like you're a bad child. I still can't believe the Dr. who "made" Sar promise she wouldn't drink to get some Prozac. What the hell was that about? Was she trying to "guilt" Sar out of drinking? Bizarre.
Of course, as we all know, it's dangerous to mix alcohol and meds, so ideally we would be forthright with our pdocs and watch our drinking.
- K.
Posted by Krazy Kat on October 30, 2001, at 11:40:00
In reply to Re: some questions for greg, posted by Greg A. on October 29, 2001, at 20:19:56
I hope you guys don't mind that I'm jumping in here some.
This sounds so familiar to me, too. When I worked in an office, I did everything I could to avoid folks. But now I'm home and I'm going crazy, mainly b/c hubby works from home and we don't get breaks from each other. Se la Vie.
There has to be Something we look forward to every day - I'm convinced of that now. Whether it's food (a good dinner) or reading, or watching a particular show. I don't think it really matters.
It took me until very recently, and I'm still not there, to allow myself to find something to enjoy. Does that sound familiar?
- K.
Posted by Gracie2 on October 30, 2001, at 20:09:37
In reply to Re: some questions for greg » Greg A., posted by Krazy Kat on October 30, 2001, at 11:40:00
Isn't it funny how some people think that they deserve not only everything, but the best of everything; and then there's us!
It can't be just environment. My sister - who is warm and wonderful and funny and I love her to death - wouldn't be caught dead in clothes from Target or K-Mart. She works hard and insists on only the best for herself - clothing, cars, hair salons, furniture, food - it has to be first-class all the way. I should learn from her.
I'm particular about a few things (only coffee from Starbucks) but otherwise I'm nothing like that. I have a nice car now, but I drove beaters for so long that I learned how to change a tire and make (minor) car repairs, because I was always breaking down somewhere. When I'm not in uniform, I'm usually wearing something like Levis with holes in the knees and a Rams hoodie.
It's amazing to me that we come from the same family.Sometimes you have to be good to yourself. I don't work much now; I'm so burned out on my regular job, I think it was a great factor in my "nervous breakdown" last year. I'm taking an
at-home course in medical transcription and I'm trying to start my own business as a mural artist, which I have some experience at. My husband and son make fun of me - they call the medical transcription institution a "matchbook school" and when I'm sketching pictures of a mural for a prospective client, they ask if I
spent the whole day "coloring". Neither of them are happy that I'm not working full-time and their comments really hurt my feelings, but I worked my butt off for 20 years at a job I hate,
often six days a week, and I put my husband through school. So I'm not going to quit - I honestly feel as if this is my last chance. If I give up now and go back to my regular profession, I feel as if that will be the end of me. I'll melt into a puddle on the floor like the Wicked Witch. I think I deserve to be happy too.So don't deny yourself, and don't let anyone else give you crap about it. Why should everyone else have all the good stuff?
-Gracie
Posted by Krazy Kat on October 30, 2001, at 20:52:12
In reply to KK - enjoy, posted by Gracie2 on October 30, 2001, at 20:09:37
Gwen? Or Gale?
I come from an extended family of wealth but nothing much growing up. I have never cared much for material things - that's not to belittle anyone who does, it just wasn't something that interested me either. I'm more concerned with my freedom and control.
Nevertheless, I, too, have tastes that are "wealthy" - coffee -definitely!; jewelry, what little I own; shoes; I guess 'classic' clothes in general. But that's kind of an old money philosophy - buy well, while you can.
Thank you for sharing re: your new career and conflicts at home. I think we, (people in general) tend to assume everything works perfectedly in a marriage that lasts a certain number of years. Certainly yours has lasted more than mine, but I was so young when married, that I am asked for 'advice' all the time. Frankly, I think it just gets more difficult.
I am struggling, time and again lately, with our living situation. No children, so that's not a factor.
Anyhoo, thanks again.
- K.
Posted by wendy b. on October 30, 2001, at 23:13:55
In reply to What was the name of the good witch?, posted by Krazy Kat on October 30, 2001, at 20:52:12
> Gwen? Or Gale?
Glenda! (Pronounced "Glinda" in the film...) You're pretty good - Gale was Dorothy's last name. A little suggestion of the storm (tornado, to be exact) to come...
> I come from an extended family of wealth but nothing much growing up. I have never cared much for material things - that's not to belittle anyone who does, it just wasn't something that interested me either. I'm more concerned with my freedom and control.
We never had much money, so consequently loved material things... Not out-of-control, but wonderful foods, fine clothes when we could buy them, the occasional car. Gracie, BTW, I bought a Subaru in '94, which I still have, which I intend to run into the ground, why should I move on to an Audi??
> Nevertheless, I, too, have tastes that are "wealthy" - coffee -definitely!;Starbucks when I can get it! Way to rock and roll, Gracie, too...
>jewelry, what little I own;
Yup... Drool over the Tiffany's catalog when I see it at Mom's...
>... shoes; I guess 'classic' clothes in general. But that's kind of an old money philosophy - buy well, while you can.
Yes, solid or block colors, mostly, few prints, good material, not trendy, but 'stylish'...
> Thank you for sharing re: your new career and conflicts at home. I think we, (people in general) tend to assume everything works perfectedly in a marriage that lasts a certain number of years. Certainly yours has lasted more than mine, but I was so young when married, that I am asked for 'advice' all the time. Frankly, I think it just gets more difficult.Interesting... How many years has it been?
> I am struggling, time and again lately, with our living situation. No children, so that's not a factor.I'm sorry.. I think I've asked you to elaborate more a while ago, but maybe you will this time. Gracie seems so tough, I think it's great she's doing the medical transcriptionist thing, it sounds like it'll be worth it in the end, and she can laugh all the way to the bank... And hey, if she has mural clients, why should the hub and son make fun of this? It's every artist's dream, to be able to make money from their creative efforts...
>
> Anyhoo, thanks again.
>
> - K.
More later. As always,W.
Posted by Krazy Kat on October 31, 2001, at 9:29:08
In reply to Re: What was the name of the good witch? » Krazy Kat , posted by wendy b. on October 30, 2001, at 23:13:55
Glenda, Glenda, Glenda - and she had that annoying voice.
I have a tracker from '94. Poor thing is getting tired, but I'll run it into the ground, as well. Then I'd like an old pickup.
Tiffany's, Tiffany's - the store in NYC is not quite what you'd expect.
I agree entirely about Gracie's situation. More power to her! :)
Elaboration - you mean talk about Moi?!
Married 9 1/2 years (21 when got married). We sort of fell into living in NYC, and unfortunately I loved it. Hubby did not. So we bought a house outside of the city. It's in a great area but I miss the city. When we moved from NYC, I remember feeling like I was choosing between two lovers - my husband and NYC.
Also, the same problems keep cropping up in our marriage. Did some serious contemplating last April, and discussion. Some things changed, got better. Some things didn't.
More than anything, we're together too much. I had thought that I would eventually work from home at least some of the time, and hubby would be in an office. But, no, he's at home constantly working now. It's just too much. So I'm not even getting time alone. It's a bad situation, I don't know how to remedy without ending a marriage.
Yikes, that was long and boring. :)
Thanks for listening.
- K.
Posted by sar on October 31, 2001, at 10:38:10
In reply to Re: What was the name of the good witch? » Krazy Kat , posted by wendy b. on October 30, 2001, at 23:13:55
can i talk you out of it?i spent 3 1/2 months brewing the stuff.
the only respectable drinks, i thought, were the cappuccinos and the italian sodas.
order a large caramel frappuccino and be prepared to have to workers snicker behind your back. they're kind of a bitch to make, ah you're intterupting me from reading this issue of *marie claire*...
hee hee...
if your city has a Humidor, or Club Humidor, go there for coffee.
mmmmmmmmm..........
Posted by Gracie2 on November 1, 2001, at 5:05:45
In reply to starbucks coffee, posted by sar on October 31, 2001, at 10:38:10
We don't have any Humidors! Borders (bookstore) switched from Starbucks to some other brand of coffee and I didn't think it was as good. However,
you can get a big bag of Hawaiian Kona at World Market for $10 and it's pretty decent. Folger's French Roast is drinkable if you make it strong enough. Still not Starbucks...About marriage - I've been with my husband for 17 years and I kind of picture the marriage as a long voyage on a ship. Sometimes you get sunny skies and smooth sailing, other times you hit the "perfect storm" and things get so rough, you swear you'll be washed overboard and drowned. Right now we are kind of riding out a squall...I asked him if he wanted to go to marriage counseling because he doesn't seem very happy but he said no, he just considered that "mud-slinging". He's not a real communicative guy when it comes to talking about his feelings. Maybe when I start making a regular paycheck again he will be happier. Sigh...also maybe when he realizes that I'm doing something I like, instead of feeling like a packhorse, I'll be happier too.
I have an interview today to do a mural at a school for disabled children. I'm pretty excited about it - I like little kids. I'd like to do a Wizard of Oz mural but I'm sure they want something like teddy bears.
Speaking of that, Glenda (the good witch) - her real name was Billie. I think she should have been from the South and they should have called her Billie, since she had that Southern belle thing going.
-Gracie
P.S. When they grind your coffee, what difference does it make if you have a flat-bottom or cone-shaped coffee filter? Always wondered that. -G
Posted by sar on November 1, 2001, at 10:11:15
In reply to I guess I've had my last caramel frappaccino, posted by Gracie2 on November 1, 2001, at 5:05:45
dear Gracie,
sorry to put a halt on the fun & games
we always used a flat-bottom filter. i've no idea what difference it makes! i'm not even a big coffee person. i just got hired 'cos i knew someone else who worked there. training minimal and rudimentary.
the lesson there: if it kind of tastes like coffee and milk, they probably won't complain. in which case, you made it right!!!
thanks for the dollar ma'am
now back to my conversation
Posted by wendy b. on November 1, 2001, at 14:39:23
In reply to starbucks coffee, posted by sar on October 31, 2001, at 10:38:10
>
> can i talk you out of it?
>
> i spent 3 1/2 months brewing the stuff.
Sorry, I meant buying the 1-lb. bags of the beans (our great grocery has carries Starbucks) and brewing it at home, I have a milk steamer/frother at home too. (Wendy's Cafe') ... The prepared drinks at the shops are WAAAAAYYYY 'spensivo, and I can't quite manage the $$ on my meager earnings.
> the only respectable drinks, i thought, were the cappuccinos and the italian sodas.Yeah, I liked the latte's...
> order a large caramel frappuccino and be prepared to have to workers snicker behind your back. they're kind of a bitch to make, ah you're intterupting me from reading this issue of *marie claire*...
>
> hee hee...
Like, totally, mahn. They do appear annoyed that you might actually want something...>
> if your city has a Humidor, or Club Humidor, go there for coffee.
>
> mmmmmmmmm..........
Never heard of it, must be a regional thing. Sounds good, I'll try one when I travel out of NY...lots o' love,
W.
Posted by Gracie2 on November 4, 2001, at 16:44:14
In reply to Re: starbucks coffee » sar, posted by wendy b. on November 1, 2001, at 14:39:23
Posted by sar on November 4, 2001, at 17:44:02
In reply to Mmmm, wish I had a caramel frappaccino (nm), posted by Gracie2 on November 4, 2001, at 16:44:14
well, indulge yourself if you must.
just don't say i didn't warn you...
:)
This is the end of the thread.
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