![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jay on October 3, 2001, at 21:57:09
I have been getting so many mixed messages about where to post this topic. There is no clear-cut line between med therapy and social therapy. One affects the other.
People on the "med" board have been pretty nasty to me just because I ask them how they truly "feel" on a certain med.Anyhow, I want to deeply underline a point brought home in research, as well as in many current excellent books on depression and bipolar depression (In particular Noonday Demon and Kay Jamison (sp?) books), that building a good social support network and engaging in psycho and cognitive therapy is a *must* along with meds if you want to get better. Therapy has shown to have the same type of effect of chages on the brain as medications.
Anyhow...just my rant...and there is some excellent discussion here.
Jay :-)
Posted by sar on October 3, 2001, at 22:24:16
In reply to Social Support/Therapy while on meds, posted by jay on October 3, 2001, at 21:57:09
dear Jay,
i generally avoid regular psycho-babble (the med-board) unless i have a question or research to do; i find it too traffick-y and overwhelming.
i'm a big fan of Kay Redfield Jamison and have been meaning to buy noonday demon for wuite awhile (i've browsed it at the store, and it seems pretty damn good).
there's a lot of excellent discussion whether you narrow it down or not. i found CBT a bit moderately helpful, but nothing has changed me like the magic stew of prozac, klonopin, and neurontin. i was anti-meds for years, and now i feel like big psych crusader for all sorts of legal psych drugs!
PSB tends to be a supportive and understanding place. i was fortunate enough to happen upon DR. Bob's site when i was prescribed Effexor; i reached it through a search engine and it has been an invaluable source since february.
post here on PSB if you like... it's a smaller group, and, in my opinion, more supportive and open. i'm not a computer person at all, this is the only message board i post on, but i've been addicted for months...
best,
sar
Posted by Cam W. on October 4, 2001, at 4:26:06
In reply to Social Support/Therapy while on meds, posted by jay on October 3, 2001, at 21:57:09
Jay - I have been undergoing cognitive therapy to help me deal with my depression and grief for the last couple of months,. It is by far the best and most effective treatment I have ever undergone! I have learned so much about myself. I am working to build my self-esteem and self-confidence, control my negative self-talk, and to actually live in my body, rather than in my head (ie. I am learning how important emotions really are).
What is really incredible is that my psychologist hasn't told me anything that I didn't already know. She has helped me connect my thoughts and beliefs to my actions; and how these developed throughout my life.I may come out of this a little closer to self-actualization, or at least become a little wiser (knowledge is not wisdom). As Dr. Betty says, it's time to get out of my head and return to my body.
I have been to several therapists, but none have the intelligence and insight that Dr. Betty Stevens-Guille has. I would highly recommend her to anyone in the Edmonton, Alberta area. She is tough, but tender; you can't B.S. her for long, nor will she let you change the subject when she has you by the short curlys. But she has an honest, spontaneous laugh and a very witty sense of humour.
I really do believe that in order either to "cure" exogenous (reactive) depression or to properly manage endogenous (genetic or life-long) depression, one needs some sort of cognitive shift. In other words, ya gotta fix the shit that caused the HPA axis to uncouple. Yes, I know, some forms of depression are not entirely a result of an extremely stressful past or present environment(s), but most are.
I still think that learning to live with depression is as important, if not more important (in some cases) than medication. Pharmacotherapy is, in most cases of true MDD, absolutely necessary. Someone on this board has described medication as "putting the floor under one's feet". Antidepressants can allow psychotherapy to be understood.
- a healing Cam
"Sometimes you can see the light in the strangest places, when you look at it right."
"Scarlet Begonias" - Robert Hunter
Posted by jay on October 4, 2001, at 5:50:08
In reply to Re: Social Support/Therapy while on meds, posted by sar on October 3, 2001, at 22:24:16
> dear Jay,
>
> i generally avoid regular psycho-babble (the med-board) unless i have a question or research to do; i find it too traffick-y and overwhelming.
>
> i'm a big fan of Kay Redfield Jamison and have been meaning to buy noonday demon for wuite awhile (i've browsed it at the store, and it seems pretty damn good).
>
> there's a lot of excellent discussion whether you narrow it down or not. i found CBT a bit moderately helpful, but nothing has changed me like the magic stew of prozac, klonopin, and neurontin. i was anti-meds for years, and now i feel like big psych crusader for all sorts of legal psych drugs!
>
> PSB tends to be a supportive and understanding place. i was fortunate enough to happen upon DR. Bob's site when i was prescribed Effexor; i reached it through a search engine and it has been an invaluable source since february.
>
> post here on PSB if you like... it's a smaller group, and, in my opinion, more supportive and open. i'm not a computer person at all, this is the only message board i post on, but i've been addicted for months...
>
> best,
> sarThanks sar:
I guess I am just really bothered by the "either/or" stance taken by some (many, actually) in psychology/psychiatry. Pscho and Med therapy to me are counterparts, both tools that are *needed* in mental health, and depression and bipolar depression. I *don't* understand by why some thing it has to be one or the other! But, 'tis life. Just to note, I do take medication, and have for 10 years, but the psycho-theraputic aspect of my healing has played an equally massive part in sustaining remision...even if I do fall through the cracks once in awhile, the social support prevents me from hitting the ground too hard.
I would highly reccomend Noonday Demon, as it is full of everything: realism; life changing experiences; sadness; hope...all the things that I think are what "come undone" in depression. In other words, we have a hard time dealing with all of those emotions and experiences together, and/or at the same time. Honestly, this is an *Atlas*, a NEEDED book for anyone going through depression or bipolar depression.
One major point from this book illuminates my concerns:
Kay Jamison mentions in Noonday Demon (as a footnote) that just seeing the brain as being purely chemical, and emotions guided by "fixing" chemical levels is much like the ancient beliefs of having "black bile" in the blood, and of "vapours" causing mental illness. It really is just far too simplistic, and just as silly, except we have put a fewmodern words in it's place. It's a part of the answer,but is given too much credit.
Anyhow....thanks for the supportive comments, and I hope I can help add to the support on psycho-social.
Jay :-)
Posted by jay on October 4, 2001, at 6:05:05
In reply to Re: Social Support/Therapy while on meds » jay, posted by Cam W. on October 4, 2001, at 4:26:06
> Jay - I have been undergoing cognitive therapy to help me deal with my depression and grief for the last couple of months,. It is by far the best and most effective treatment I have ever undergone! I have learned so much about myself. I am working to build my self-esteem and self-confidence, control my negative self-talk, and to actually live in my body, rather than in my head (ie. I am learning how important emotions really are).
>
> What is really incredible is that my psychologist hasn't told me anything that I didn't already know. She has helped me connect my thoughts and beliefs to my actions; and how these developed throughout my life.I may come out of this a little closer to self-actualization, or at least become a little wiser (knowledge is not wisdom). As Dr. Betty says, it's time to get out of my head and return to my body.
>
> I have been to several therapists, but none have the intelligence and insight that Dr. Betty Stevens-Guille has. I would highly recommend her to anyone in the Edmonton, Alberta area. She is tough, but tender; you can't B.S. her for long, nor will she let you change the subject when she has you by the short curlys. But she has an honest, spontaneous laugh and a very witty sense of humour.
>
> I really do believe that in order either to "cure" exogenous (reactive) depression or to properly manage endogenous (genetic or life-long) depression, one needs some sort of cognitive shift. In other words, ya gotta fix the shit that caused the HPA axis to uncouple. Yes, I know, some forms of depression are not entirely a result of an extremely stressful past or present environment(s), but most are.
>
> I still think that learning to live with depression is as important, if not more important (in some cases) than medication. Pharmacotherapy is, in most cases of true MDD, absolutely necessary. Someone on this board has described medication as "putting the floor under one's feet". Antidepressants can allow psychotherapy to be understood.
>
> - a healing Cam
>
> "Sometimes you can see the light in the strangest places, when you look at it right."
> "Scarlet Begonias" - Robert HunterHi Cam:
Thanks for responding, and as I mentioned in my last post, using both talking-cognitive therapy AND medication I think is the best weapon we have against depression and bipolar illness. Both are far from perfect, but the combination provides both remision of symptoms, AND, a chance to grow, learn, and become a better person. I think the worst thing we can let depression do is rob us of our ability to learn from it.
Adding to your point about meds "putting the floor under our feet", Andrew Sololomen(sp?) in Noonday Demon (an amazing book...highly recommend it for ANYONE with depression/bipolar illness), he makes a great comment: "The unexamined life is unavailable to the depressed."
Hence, meds can allow the symptoms to ease up so we can open up and "examine", and then talk therapy gives us the tools to examine and change.I made the comment in my previous post that I couldn't understand why some people see therapy as so "threatening". I mean, it is like they are very vocal and angry when talk therapy along with their meds is suggested. Maybe they just never had the right therapist. I don't like to be judgemental, but I think some who refuse the value of talk therapy may have ego-type issues to deal with, and you get this feeling that they think they are too "smart" for therapy or something. Sorry if I sound a bit harsh and judgemental, but it is what at least I feel.
I have been mostly involved in group therapy, and find it amazing, and do one-to-one therapy once every few months. It is all new to me, and after nine years of getting little done on meds, this therapy plus meds is like *rocket fuel*.
Anyhow, I look forward to participating more on psych-social, and should have looked deeper into it before.
Thanks for the comments and support...
The best in healing..
Jay:-)
Posted by Dinah on October 4, 2001, at 8:08:56
In reply to Re: Social Support/Therapy while on meds » Cam W., posted by jay on October 4, 2001, at 6:05:05
Hi Jay,
I have to agree with you that medicine/therapy doesn't have to be an either/or proposition, but are often best used together.
Unfortunately, medicine has always been a double edged sword for me. It makes some aspects of life much better, but there has always been a price to pay in my own experience. I'm never quite as sharp mentally on psychotropic medicines and they tend to exacerbate the existing problems I have with not experiencing my emotions, leaving me with anhedonia, and an inability to feel appropriate sadness or anger.
I've also had some problems with cognitive behavior therapy in that the "energy" associated with any given symptom tends to express itself in another way if that symptom is dealt with. I think my body just has a need to express that psychic energy in some way.
Anyway, I work with both medicine and therapy and think that neither is the perfect answer, but both have the capacity to help me help myself.
I've purchased Noonday Demon and hope to read it soon. Right now I'm having trouble comprehending the comics.
Dinah
Posted by jay on October 4, 2001, at 14:50:10
In reply to Re: Social Support/Therapy while on meds » jay, posted by Dinah on October 4, 2001, at 8:08:56
> Hi Jay,
> I have to agree with you that medicine/therapy doesn't have to be an either/or proposition, but are often best used together.
> Unfortunately, medicine has always been a double edged sword for me. It makes some aspects of life much better, but there has always been a price to pay in my own experience. I'm never quite as sharp mentally on psychotropic medicines and they tend to exacerbate the existing problems I have with not experiencing my emotions, leaving me with anhedonia, and an inability to feel appropriate sadness or anger.
> I've also had some problems with cognitive behavior therapy in that the "energy" associated with any given symptom tends to express itself in another way if that symptom is dealt with. I think my body just has a need to express that psychic energy in some way.
> Anyway, I work with both medicine and therapy and think that neither is the perfect answer, but both have the capacity to help me help myself.
> I've purchased "Noonday Demon" and hope to read it soon. Right now I'm having trouble comprehending the comics.
> DinahDinah:
It seems that *energy force* is much of what feels like is "sucked out" of us in depression. We are too tired to do much; anxious because of the fatigue; don't sleep well because of being "over-tired" and anxious. I find that I can gauge my depression by some of my sleep. In particular, it is not *how long* I sleep, but that feeling whe I wake up that I just had some very light, restless sleep, no matter how long it was.
Regarding meds, (I know this is the 'psycho-social' board...but we can't split messages in two all the time..), have you ever tried quite lower than normal doeses of meds? (i.e. 1/2 to 1/3 the dose of the "lowest" reccomended dose.)
Dr. Michael Norden suggests this in his book "Beyond Prozac", and he was one of the first to report research using liquid Prozac in much, much smaller doses than suggested. Here are some of my past experiences with doses that have *worked* (my problem was in my social situation...being in abusive relationships, etc..)
If my current med stopped right-out working, I would go back to these. I have found we *must* really supercharge our ego to make this stuff work, and that is hard as hell when you are completely depressed, and don't even want to get out of bed. Remember, I am talking about a fraction of 'success' after dealing with this for almost 10 years!-5-10 mg's of Elavil (usually 5mg's)..although this was the first med I was on 10 years ago...and the reason I stopped was because not only was it my first med (I didn't know any better), but it did cause a bit of weight gain.
I honestly wouldn't reccomend this as 'first-line'.-12.5 mg's of Luvox (25mg in half.) Maybe even smaller if needed.
5-10 mg's of Nortriptyline. I found this med a bit "activating", so besides some extra anxiety, it helped with the "morning" part of depression.
-37.5 mg's of Effexor XR. (I can't tolerate even a tad more.) Most docs seem to start at 75mg's, but this drives me crazy.
Also, for the first few weeks,a benzo seems to help keep any anxiety in some check.
This is all anecdotal, and I would never say it *would* work for everyone else. I just think like our way of thinking and healing (and it is a constant battle...I will always consider myself a *depressive* treated with meds), we might have to be as unconventional as possible.
Sorry for the long post...I hope it doesn't sound like I am lecturing. I don't ever expect what applies to me would apply to anyone/everyone else.
Thanks...and take good care...you deserve it.
Jay
Posted by Dinah on October 4, 2001, at 18:55:36
In reply to Re: Social Support/Therapy while on meds » Dinah, posted by jay on October 4, 2001, at 14:50:10
I am currently taking almost no meds, only a small amount of Depakote and Klonopin to help me sleep, since I've had trouble with early morning wakenings for years. I hate 3-6 am.
I don't want to romanticize depression or anxiety or anything, but I am taking a med break because I have the feeling that the best parts of who I am come from the same personality characteristics that make me over-anxious and too easily stimulated. I am not saying that anxiety causes me to be a better person, just that as with many people, my best qualities are the flip side of my worst qualities. I can certainly foresee circumstances where I would rush back to my Luvox, which worked well for obsessions, but made me into a slow-witted automaton. Wellbutrin made me frankly suicidal in an agitated way. Remeron put me to sleep for days.
Right now, I am trying to live through what seems to be cycles of anxiety and depression with the help of a pretty terrific therapist. I can talk to him about the black thoughts that would distress my family (because they love me). That rids the thoughts of their energy and keeps the thoughts in line. It also helps to remember that the moods do pass. We also do some CBT, but I am somewhat resistant to that, I must admit. My therapist has to be pretty subtle to slip it in.
Sorry to go on so. My thoughts are not at their most organized right now.
Dinah
Posted by jay on October 4, 2001, at 20:43:15
In reply to Re: Social Support/Therapy while on meds » jay, posted by Dinah on October 4, 2001, at 18:55:36
Dinah:
You certainly don't have to apologize for the way you feel. When you get in that *rut* over and over again, and always switching meds, it can make you feel very tired and demoralized.
If you don't mind me asking, how is life outside of therapy...as in home life; relationships; finances; job..etc?
I am certainly not suggesting there is any simple answer. It's been ten years of searching for me, and counting!
I know antidepressants can antagonize anxiety, and can make you feel "numb", depersonalized. That's why I was curious if you have considered a much lower than normal dose, along with your klonipin and depakote. It appears both of these meds can quell some of the anxiety, insomnia, and 'depersonalization' caused by antidepressants.
Best of all, I think it's great to come back to the board for support, and even just to *rant*. Heck, even just reading through others posts seems a bit helpful.
I hope I don't sound too preachy. Last thing you want is somebody telling you what to do. If you have the energy, keep on posting about *anything*.
The fatigue and anxiety are pretty much equal to torcherous hell, and I think it's even impossible to express it fully in words. I don't think you will find much argument about that from folks on here.Please take care..
Jay
> I am currently taking almost no meds, only a small amount of Depakote and Klonopin to help me sleep, since I've had trouble with early morning wakenings for years. I hate 3-6 am.
> I don't want to romanticize depression or anxiety or anything, but I am taking a med break because I have the feeling that the best parts of who I am come from the same personality characteristics that make me over-anxious and too easily stimulated. I am not saying that anxiety causes me to be a better person, just that as with many people, my best qualities are the flip side of my worst qualities. I can certainly foresee circumstances where I would rush back to my Luvox, which worked well for obsessions, but made me into a slow-witted automaton. Wellbutrin made me frankly suicidal in an agitated way. Remeron put me to sleep for days.
> Right now, I am trying to live through what seems to be cycles of anxiety and depression with the help of a pretty terrific therapist. I can talk to him about the black thoughts that would distress my family (because they love me). That rids the thoughts of their energy and keeps the thoughts in line. It also helps to remember that the moods do pass. We also do some CBT, but I am somewhat resistant to that, I must admit. My therapist has to be pretty subtle to slip it in.
> Sorry to go on so. My thoughts are not at their most organized right now.
> Dinah
Posted by Dinah on October 4, 2001, at 23:11:38
In reply to Re: Social Support/Therapy while on meds » Dinah, posted by jay on October 4, 2001, at 20:43:15
Jay,
I appreciate your concern.
I'm afraid I may have made things sound worse than they are. I suppose you are thinking of my post on the other board. I knew that was a mistake even while I was posting it - very embarassing. It was like typing "pathetic loser" on my forehead. It caught me at a time when I was especially sensitive about depending on a paid professional, since I don't really like to depend on anyone.
I have a good life, a great family, and enough friends to suit an introvert like myself. It's just that I don't really feel comfortable burdening them with the darker stuff. People who aren't familiar with depression tend to overreact. That's all.
Posted by Krazy Kat on October 5, 2001, at 10:49:53
In reply to Re: Social Support/Therapy while on meds » jay, posted by Cam W. on October 4, 2001, at 4:26:06
Cam:
What an insightful post. Thanks!
- K.
Posted by Waterlily on October 5, 2001, at 12:41:32
In reply to Re: Social Support/Therapy while on meds » Cam W., posted by jay on October 4, 2001, at 6:05:05
Jay, I used to be dead-set against therapy. None of my doctors had said that it would be advantageous, given what I was telling them. When I was on medication, everything was just fine as far as I was concerned. My husband pushed me into therapy and I'm now unearthing some very unhealthy deap-seated beliefs. I was dead set against therapy because it made ME the one responsible for the way I am. I was the one to blame, not just an unlucky throw of the genetic dice. Of course, therapy is now bringing me to the understanding that not everything that is wrong in this world is my fault. I just wanted you to know why some people aren't real crazy about therapy.
Posted by madeleine on October 5, 2001, at 12:51:27
In reply to Re: Social Support/Therapy while on meds » jay, posted by Cam W. on October 4, 2001, at 4:26:06
>Someone on this board has described medication as "putting the floor under one's feet". Antidepressants can allow psychotherapy to be understood.
>
> - a healing Cam
>How true--I resisted taking any medication for my depression/anxiety until I reached a point where I could no longer endure the emotions that emerged during my sessions--the medications, although not perfect by any means, provide a much needed baseline that I can rely on and allow me to continue doing the hard work in therapy that I need to do. For me, therapy contributes at least 70% and the medications only about 30% towards my recovery--but without that 30%, the other
70% wouldn't happen.
Posted by Mair on October 5, 2001, at 13:17:43
In reply to Re: Social Support/Therapy while on meds, posted by madeleine on October 5, 2001, at 12:51:27
>
> I pretty much agree with all that has been written, but do you think the support for a meds/therapy combination can be explained in part by the fact that we regularly visit this board. Let's face it, if we were all doing wonderfully well, we probably wouldn't be here. It's been my observation that most of the people here are at least somewhat treatment resistent meds-wise and prone to relapses. Therapy, at least on a longer term basis, may be more necessary for someone in that category than for someone facing a situational depression who responds well to traditional monotherapies.Just a thought.
Mair
Posted by susan C on October 5, 2001, at 15:16:59
In reply to Another Thought, posted by Mair on October 5, 2001, at 13:17:43
> >
Mair's post got me thinking, this would be a good place to ask...1. are you on meds? yes no we won't get into what kind where etc...
2. Are you 'in' therapy? Yes, No
3. If Yes, than how often? (once a week, two times a week, once a month, as needed)
4. And, what kind CBT only, group, whatotherkindsarethere?
5. If no, why not?
6. Other comments...
My answers are:
1. Yes I take meds
2. No, I am not in any type of official talk therapy.
3.< >
4.< >
5. Current pdoc feels I have (and observes in visits with my hub present though not always accounted for) a very supportive environment and don't need to...a curi-m-ous-e
susan C> > I pretty much agree with all that has been written, but do you think the support for a meds/therapy combination can be explained in part by the fact that we regularly visit this board. Let's face it, if we were all doing wonderfully well, we probably wouldn't be here. It's been my observation that most of the people here are at least somewhat treatment resistent meds-wise and prone to relapses. Therapy, at least on a longer term basis, may be more necessary for someone in that category than for someone facing a situational depression who responds well to traditional monotherapies.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Mair
Posted by Greg on October 5, 2001, at 18:00:41
In reply to Now, for Something Completely Different: A Survey, posted by susan C on October 5, 2001, at 15:16:59
OK, I'll bite...
> 1. are you on meds? yes no we won't get into what kind where etc...
Oh hell yeah
>
> 2. Are you 'in' therapy? Yes, NoNope, but I should be.
>
> 3. If Yes, than how often? (once a week, two times a week, once a month, as needed)NA
>
> 4. And, what kind CBT only, group, whatotherkindsarethere?NA
>
> 5. If no, why not?When I lost my job I had to take my wife's HMO coverage and my therapist isn't covered under her plan. I just can't face starting all over with a new therp right now.
>
> 6. Other comments...Tell me that there are 400 billion stars in the sky and I'll believe you.
Tell me that a bench has wet paint and I have to touch it.
Go figure....
Greg
Posted by Willow on October 5, 2001, at 21:20:13
In reply to Re: Now, for Something Completely Different: A Survey, posted by Greg on October 5, 2001, at 18:00:41
OK, I'll bite...
>
1. are you on meds? yes no we won't get into what kind where etc...
>
> Oh hell yeah
> >
2. Are you 'in' therapy? Yes, No
>
Second round trip for me. Both psychologists had supported me being on medication.
> >
3. If Yes, than how often? (once a week, two times a week, once a month, as needed)
>
Approximately once a month.
> >
> > 4. And, what kind CBT only, group, whatotherkindsarethere?
>
I think it's called psychotherapy.
> >
5. If no, why not?> >
6. Other comments...
I would like to add #7. How long?
For myself:
First trip was about two years.
Second time round, has lasted three years and on going.Other comment: weighing therapy versus drugs
For myself:
I need both. Either one wouldn't be successful without the other.Mighty Mouse - I don't understand your pysh saying that therapy isn't needed because of support at home. It can help with deeling with these illnesses.
GREG
"Tell me that there are 400 billion stars in the sky and I'll believe you.
Tell me that a bench has wet paint and I have to touch it."I have a question for you. Have you ever been tempted to reach for the stars? In a literal sense, wanting to know more about them. Wouldn't that be the same as touching the wet paint?
Little Willow
Posted by Cam W. on October 5, 2001, at 22:22:59
In reply to Now, for Something Completely Different: A Survey, posted by susan C on October 5, 2001, at 15:16:59
1. are you on meds? yes no we won't get into what kind where etc...
• yes
2. Are you 'in' therapy? Yes, No• yes
3. If Yes, than how often? (once a week, two times a week, once a month, as needed)• weekly, for now.
4. And, what kind CBT only, group, whatotherkindsarethere?
• cognitive therapy, individual
5. If no, why not?
6. Other comments...
• I want to be what I was, when I wanted to be what I am today.- Cam
Posted by jay on October 5, 2001, at 23:50:46
In reply to Re: Social Support/Therapy while on meds » jay, posted by Dinah on October 4, 2001, at 23:11:38
Dinah:
I honestly didn't make the association with your name, and I was just adding the dire importance to leave no choices "untried". I honestly think that is really the key...never-ending hope. It's frustrating as hell, but I also think a beautiful human quality. Maybe that is why we all post on here, even if it's just to rant, to see how other people have dealt with a situation.
Please take care..
Jay :-)
> Jay,
> I appreciate your concern.
> I'm afraid I may have made things sound worse than they are. I suppose you are thinking of my post on the other board. I knew that was a mistake even while I was posting it - very embarassing. It was like typing "pathetic loser" on my forehead. It caught me at a time when I was especially sensitive about depending on a paid professional, since I don't really like to depend on anyone.
> I have a good life, a great family, and enough friends to suit an introvert like myself. It's just that I don't really feel comfortable burdening them with the darker stuff. People who aren't familiar with depression tend to overreact. That's all.
Posted by jay on October 6, 2001, at 0:26:22
In reply to Another Thought, posted by Mair on October 5, 2001, at 13:17:43
> >
> > I pretty much agree with all that has been written, but do you think the support for a meds/therapy combination can be explained in part by the fact that we regularly visit this board. Let's face it, if we were all doing wonderfully well, we probably wouldn't be here. It's been my observation that most of the people here are at least somewhat treatment resistent meds-wise and prone to relapses. Therapy, at least on a longer term basis, may be more necessary for someone in that category than for someone facing a situational depression who responds well to traditional monotherapies.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> MairMair:
Good question. I feel that our healing is actually a "life-long" process. Once we fall into deep mental health problems, we need consistent and pro-active support. Warding off future crisis, instead of waiting until they happen again, I think is smart, and something we should be promoting.
That's why I think we should all be coming back to this board, feeling "good" or "bad". We can find further sustained support to prevent further problems, and we can gain some good mental healthy feelings from supporting others.
So, my answer is yes, coming back here is a good part of "maintenance" mental health. I think like physical health, it should be a life-long process. If only our society looked at mental health as being as dire important as physical health, and maybe even one and the same, and that it should be constantly life-long maintained, *maybe* we could get somewhere. :-)
Jay
Posted by susan C on October 6, 2001, at 10:41:05
In reply to Re: Now, for Something Completely Different: A Survey, posted by Willow on October 5, 2001, at 21:20:13
> OK, I'll bite...
> >
> 1. are you on meds? yes no we won't get into what kind where etc...
> >
> > Oh hell yeah
> > >
> 2. Are you 'in' therapy? Yes, No
> >
> Second round trip for me. Both psychologists had supported me being on medication.
> > >
> 3. If Yes, than how often? (once a week, two times a week, once a month, as needed)
> >
> Approximately once a month.
> > >
> > > 4. And, what kind CBT only, group, whatotherkindsarethere?
> >
> I think it's called psychotherapy.
> > >
> 5. If no, why not?
>
> > >
> 6. Other comments...
> I would like to add #7. How long?
> For myself:
> First trip was about two years.
> Second time round, has lasted three years and on going.
>
> Other comment: weighing therapy versus drugs
> For myself:
> I need both. Either one wouldn't be successful without the other.
>
> Mighty Mouse - I don't understand your pysh saying that therapy isn't needed because of support at home. It can help with deeling with these illnesses.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
This is one of the reasons I asked this. I am not sure about therapy. I could say, heck, my mom is a retired pscyh nurse, my sister is a therpist with her own practice...so I am surrounded by people who know this stuff...at the same time, as I have been reading here, I have been wondering, perhaps my stubborn, its my sister and I am tired of her telling me what to do....and add to that I would need to find someonebecause theywould havetobegoodand Idon'tfeelliketryingtofindanyone
rightnow. So, todayI havetheflu andlastnightmydearhub who is home with the flu, held me in his arms and talked to me and stroked my head as i tossedandturned. And I had strange dreams all night. So, no I am back to bed. If you all dont hear from me, its cause I feel like flu crap.susan c
mighty not somighty mouse
>
>
> GREG
> "Tell me that there are 400 billion stars in the sky and I'll believe you.
> Tell me that a bench has wet paint and I have to touch it."
>
> I have a question for you. Have you ever been tempted to reach for the stars? In a literal sense, wanting to know more about them. Wouldn't that be the same as touching the wet paint?
>
> Little Willow
Posted by Greg on October 6, 2001, at 13:12:40
In reply to Re: Now, for Something Completely Different: A Survey, posted by Willow on October 5, 2001, at 21:20:13
> GREG
> "Tell me that there are 400 billion stars in the sky and I'll believe you.
> Tell me that a bench has wet paint and I have to touch it."
>
> I have a question for you. Have you ever been tempted to reach for the stars? In a literal sense, wanting to know more about them. Wouldn't that be the same as touching the wet paint?
>
> Little WillowHi Willow,
I guess what I was reaching for was how my belief system works.
I find it so much easier to believe in the intangibles around me. Those things I can't explain. I fully believe that I've been able to maintain almost 14 years of sobriety because I made the choice to put my life into the hands of a higher power, who I believe is god. I can't see him, or touch him, and I've certainly never talked to him, but I believe he's there. Just like I believe in those 400 billion stars that I'll never see. The things I can't explain have never let me down or caused me pain. They feel safe to me.
On the other hand, the tangibles in my life, especially my parents and my grandfather, have been tremendous sources of pain. Many of the things I could see, touch and feel have let me down in my life, destroyed my trust. I have trouble taking the good things in life at face value, I guess I don't feel deserving of being treated well. I rec'd a letter from AOL yesterday offering me a free pocket organizer for just filling out a questionaire and mailing it back to them. Them even sent a stamped envelope. I read the letter 6 times looking for the catch... I had to touch the paint.
I don't know if this makes any sense, but at 46, I'm still trying to grow up.
Greg
Posted by tina on October 6, 2001, at 23:18:02
In reply to Re: Now, for Something Completely - Willow, posted by Greg on October 6, 2001, at 13:12:40
> > GREG
> > "Tell me that there are 400 billion stars in the sky and I'll believe you.
> > Tell me that a bench has wet paint and I have to touch it."
> >
> > I have a question for you. Have you ever been tempted to reach for the stars? In a literal sense, wanting to know more about them. Wouldn't that be the same as touching the wet paint?
> >
> > Little Willow
>
> Hi Willow,
>
> I guess what I was reaching for was how my belief system works.
>
> I find it so much easier to believe in the intangibles around me. Those things I can't explain. I fully believe that I've been able to maintain almost 14 years of sobriety because I made the choice to put my life into the hands of a higher power, who I believe is god. I can't see him, or touch him, and I've certainly never talked to him, but I believe he's there. Just like I believe in those 400 billion stars that I'll never see. The things I can't explain have never let me down or caused me pain. They feel safe to me.
>
> On the other hand, the tangibles in my life, especially my parents and my grandfather, have been tremendous sources of pain. Many of the things I could see, touch and feel have let me down in my life, destroyed my trust. I have trouble taking the good things in life at face value, I guess I don't feel deserving of being treated well. I rec'd a letter from AOL yesterday offering me a free pocket organizer for just filling out a questionaire and mailing it back to them. Them even sent a stamped envelope. I read the letter 6 times looking for the catch... I had to touch the paint.
>
> I don't know if this makes any sense, but at 46, I'm still trying to grow up.
>
> GregMakes perfect sense to me.
Posted by Krazy Kat on October 8, 2001, at 9:24:37
In reply to Re: Now, for Something Completely - Willow, posted by Greg on October 6, 2001, at 13:12:40
> >
> I don't know if this makes any sense, but at 46, I'm still trying to grow up.
>
> GregYounger, I know, at 30, but am still working on it, and don't anticipate ever finishing. :) But perhaps those of us who continue to search, never do...
- K.
Posted by sar on October 10, 2001, at 0:13:12
In reply to Re: Now, for Something Completely » Greg, posted by tina on October 6, 2001, at 23:18:02
stay young
i want to burn my hands on the stove over & over 'cos it feels different each time, and it reaches me viscerally...
SALIENT KNOWLEDGE.
fate beliefs doing what you have to do oh this is so important your own drive but embrace yr peter-pannity, it will only endear you to the truest knowledge.
naively yours,
sar
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