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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by TofuEmmy on October 30, 2005, at 8:15:37
In reply to Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations?, posted by gardenergirl on October 29, 2005, at 23:30:36
It's the turnip thing sweetie. As you know, I'm oh so famliar with the problem. Seems like when anything emotional happens it's as if their ability to cope is overwhelmed and they revert to childhood behaviors...like pouting, causing ouchies, exiting grumpily, sulking, etc. I don't understand it either. Not that *I* haven't been known to engage in any of the above behaviors....but that's different. :-)
Really, I think our tolerance for emtional stuff, the good and the bad, is just higher. These gentlemen need a) to want to be different b) to work on adding healthy communication skills. I never got past "a" with mine. ("I yam what I yam...")
Miss ya snuggle buns, emmy
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 30, 2005, at 9:23:43
In reply to Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations?, posted by gardenergirl on October 29, 2005, at 23:30:36
((((gg))))
Im sorry things didnt well.
I think in time you can get those special times back, it just takes time.....sometimes
Hang in there
Posted by gardenergirl on October 30, 2005, at 21:59:47
In reply to Re: P.S. » gardenergirl, posted by All Done on October 30, 2005, at 3:26:54
Thanks sweetie. Yeah, he's not all bad. He just has this one way of acting, and a certain sort of timing that's pretty devastating. Next time I wish he's just send me an email to get my attention. And my attention is something he must be trying to get. Sigh.
But it's hard to get through the pain and anger to try to begin the healing process. Good thing he's in therapy, but it would be helpful if he would talk to his T about some of this.
Thanks.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on October 30, 2005, at 22:05:28
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations? » gardenergirl, posted by Tamar on October 30, 2005, at 6:17:44
Thanks for the hugs and support, Tamar.
> ... Sometimes people find the pressure too much and end up being neglectful…Yeah, I can relate to this. Although in this case, and on my birthday this summer, he not only was neglectful, but intentionally hurtful via his neglect. It wasn't benign neglect, but an active choice. That's the hardest part for me to cope with. Although he says he doesn't know what else to do when his feelings reach that point. So he wants me to help him express his emotions more and better before he finds himself in that place again. I asked him if he could see my dilemma in wanting to avoid this happening again...wanting to help him, but at the same time, not wanting to make myself vulnerable to his doing this ever again. I feel like I should cancel Christmas as a self-protective measure. sigh
> And yet, I agree with Laurie that the most special times are often those that haven’t been planned. I’m wishing you one of those very soon.
Thanks, me too. We're going to go out on a "date" next Saturday night. In the meantime, I've put away all reminders of our anniversary, because it's just too painful to think about the loss. I hope our friends and family are done calling us to congratulate us. It's hard to explain why that makes me cry and need to get off the phone. :(
>Still feeling sorry for myself,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on October 30, 2005, at 22:09:01
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations? » gardenergirl, posted by TofuEmmy on October 30, 2005, at 8:15:37
> It's the turnip thing sweetie. As you know, I'm oh so famliar with the problem. Seems like when anything emotional happens it's as if their ability to cope is overwhelmed and they revert to childhood behaviors...like pouting, causing ouchies, exiting grumpily, sulking, etc.
That's pretty much it. Tonight we got into yelling and sarcasm, too. Lovely.
>I don't understand it either. Not that *I* haven't been known to engage in any of the above behaviors....but that's different. :-)
Yeah, me too. But I don't know that intentionally hurting him has ever been on my radar. It's the admitted intentional part that I just can't get over.
>
> Really, I think our tolerance for emtional stuff, the good and the bad, is just higher. These gentlemen need a) to want to be different b) to work on adding healthy communication skills. I never got past "a" with mine. ("I yam what I yam...")Sorry about not getting past step A. Mine hasn't exactly admitted to wanting to change, either. Although he's at the point of admitting he made a mistake. I'm not sure he's apologized, and I can't feel any remorse. But then it's hard to empathize with a turnip.
>
> Miss ya snuggle buns, emmyYou too. Have fun at your upcoming thingy.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on October 30, 2005, at 22:09:32
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations? » gardenergirl, posted by rainbowbrite on October 30, 2005, at 9:23:43
Thanks rain. I'm trying.
Hope you're doing well.
gg
Posted by antigua on October 31, 2005, at 8:45:06
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations? » rainbowbrite, posted by gardenergirl on October 30, 2005, at 22:09:32
Sorry about this, but I can relate.
things changed for me when I quit expecting anything. I try to enjoy the celebrations for me, and not just for him. He's always bad about Thanksgiving (when my family comes) and Christmas Eve service, but now I just go along on my own, trying to make the day happy, and i've discvored that if I focus on me and not him, he actually surprises me sometimes!
How long have you married?
an old married woman,
antigua
Posted by alexandra_k on October 31, 2005, at 18:27:33
In reply to Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations?, posted by gardenergirl on October 29, 2005, at 23:30:36
((((gg))))) I'm sorry hon.
it really sucks how sometimes we just need someone to be a little caring and they just seem to close themselves off...is there any way you guys could work on it together?
i mean... maybe... its about pressure. maybe he feels a bit of pressure to be happy and expressive and he deals with that by kind of going numb and stuff. i do that sometimes too... but then i've also been on the other side of it and it really really sucks.
i'm sorry.
i hope your date goes well.
Posted by gardenergirl on October 31, 2005, at 22:58:31
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations?, posted by antigua on October 31, 2005, at 8:45:06
Hi,
Yeah, I suppose part of the problem was how much I was looking forward to things. Although he did the same thing on my birthday, and I wasn't really looking forward to or expecting anything then. Today in my therapy session, my T asked why I was so surprised that he did this again. Sigh.It's been 10 years now, although we've been together longer than that. This behavior is new in the last year.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on October 31, 2005, at 23:02:24
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations?, posted by alexandra_k on October 31, 2005, at 18:27:33
Hi,
Yeah, it really stinks. We're working on it bit by bit. It's going to take awhile, though. And it's not so much about pressure, at least I don't think. It's about his needs and hurts, and his inability to express them. And then when he feels bad enough, he does something like this.He is not someone with a lot of close friends. Pretty much none since we moved here. Not a good situation considering I'm pretty involved with school still. And even if I were not, I can't be his only friend. It's too much pressure on me. Being intensely needed is a very triggering thing for me. My whole life I never got anything out of being needed by others. It's always pretty much been a drain on my system. Comes from being around and involved with too many narcissists (parents).
So I suppose some of the intensity of my hurt is tied up with that old stuff. Which he really couldn't predict, probably.
Still. I really really hate it.
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on November 1, 2005, at 4:33:21
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations? » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on October 31, 2005, at 23:02:24
Hey. Yeah, I'm not really too sure about whats going on because I don't know that I've read all that much about this. But... I do remember you posting about your birthday and that one sounded really horrible :-(
I think it can be hard when one person has more outside friends / activities than the other. But I know what you mean about it being important for both of you to do that. Its something that is important to me too, so I get that.
And it can be hard to feel smothered too... Like someone is pretty much dependent on you. Because then I guess you pull away a bit, and then they panic a little and things escalate rather.
But sounds like...
You have been thinking about why it happens a bit...
Posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2005, at 6:29:53
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations? » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on November 1, 2005, at 4:33:21
> >
> But sounds like...
>
> You have been thinking about why it happens a bit...LOL, no choice but to do that. My T wouldn't let me wallow yesterday. :(
gg
>
Posted by Dinah on November 1, 2005, at 7:22:56
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations? » Tamar, posted by gardenergirl on October 30, 2005, at 22:05:28
I think I'd find the deliberate part hard to handle too. And you can't fool yourself that it's not deliberate if he admits it.
I'm sure he's upset and everything, but maybe he could schedule a Grievance Day enough ahead of the special day that things can be smoothed over by the time of the day you've looked forward to.
((((gardenergirl))))
Posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2005, at 9:51:22
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations? » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on November 1, 2005, at 7:22:56
> I think I'd find the deliberate part hard to handle too. And you can't fool yourself that it's not deliberate if he admits it.
Yeah, that's really a hard part of it. Even if I understand that he was upset, it's very cruel. And after the last time, he can't say that he couldn't predict how upset I'd be.
>
> I'm sure he's upset and everything, but maybe he could schedule a Grievance Day enough ahead of the special day that things can be smoothed over by the time of the day you've looked forward to.I told him to send me an email. sigh
Thanks.
gg
Posted by Damos on November 2, 2005, at 15:41:12
In reply to Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations?, posted by gardenergirl on October 29, 2005, at 23:30:36
Sorry GG only just catching up with this. Really sorry he wrecked your special day.
Question: Isn't this why they invented cast-iron frypans?
The deliberate part is what gets me. Just want to scream out "But why?" (amongst other things)
You said this behaviour is new in the last year or so, what's changed?
Well, all i can say is that everyday you're here with us is special to us.
((((((gg)))))
Posted by allisonross on November 3, 2005, at 10:41:17
In reply to Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations?, posted by gardenergirl on October 29, 2005, at 23:30:36
> Because he has the emotional expression skills of a turnip?
LOL, I love it; I lived with a turnip (or as I used to call him; the houseplant; never wanted to do anything or go...anywhere!) for THIRTY-ONE years (thatz right, folks), but I DID live my life the way I wanted to (always he** to pay afterwards, but i am a free spirit, and he couldn't pound it out of me), LOL
>
> Because he handles his negative emotions like an adolescent?
>
> Because I actually married a replicant of my father?We usually DO marry one of our parents (I inadvertently "married" my mother); took me a long time to figure that out, then I had to divorce my 'mother." LOL< LOL
>
> GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
>
> You know what? Once these special days are ruined, you can't ever get them back. And that just hurts more than words.I haven't read all your posts, etc., but I expect you've discussed this with him?
Say: when you do this, I feel.......fill in the blanks
Does he CARE how you feel?
If so, what is he willing to do to change the behavior that is causing you misery?
Those are a couple of excellent questions to ask the "rain on your parade" boy
My mother did it, and the ex did it; the first glimmer of excitement from ME, (which is pretty difficult for me to hide; being the efferfescent, excitable, joyful self I am, LOL) and BLAMMO-----rained all over me/ruined the joy, etc.....
> ggwrite me if you like: wacalice@aol.com
Posted by gardenergirl on November 3, 2005, at 12:14:45
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations? » gardenergirl, posted by allisonross on November 3, 2005, at 10:41:17
Thanks for your support. We are working on it slowly. Slowly....
gg
Posted by allisonross on November 3, 2005, at 13:01:38
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations? » allisonross, posted by gardenergirl on November 3, 2005, at 12:14:45
> Thanks for your support.
You are so welcome!
We are working on it slowly. Slowly....
Good for you; keep us posted. Love, Ally
>
> gg
Posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 20:12:56
In reply to Re: Why does my husband keep ruining celebrations? » gardenergirl, posted by allisonross on November 3, 2005, at 13:01:38
Well today I threw away the roses, because they were pretty dead looking. It made me sad, because now I have nothing to show, nothing lasting to commmemorate our anniversary. Now really, do I even want to remember it? Actually, I think I do. This is a new or maybe you could say emerging hurt about this whole mess.
I know I need to tell him this, but it seems a little funny to say, "Oh by the way honey, I resent that you didn't buy me a decent and durable gift." But that's how I feel, damn it! And that feels a bit childish, although I suppose I realize it's not.
Is it too late to get me to a nunnery?
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on November 15, 2005, at 22:02:37
In reply to Hmm, realization today, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 20:12:56
((((gg))))
i'm sorry
:-(
Posted by gardenergirl on November 17, 2005, at 8:18:47
In reply to Re: Hmm, realization today, posted by alexandra_k on November 15, 2005, at 22:02:37
Thanks, alex.
I talked to him about this. It was not pretty. He's got some very rigid ways of looking at the world. At behavior. Motivation. Etc.
It reminded me that he really doesn't "get" depression. It's all about motivation and will to him. Ha, if only. And toss in neurosis, and he's in way over his head.
Still, he pretty much said that this whole event was "my fault", since I didn't complete my D proposal, and thus did not "earn" a gift. We had a stupid agreement that I would get a certain anniversary gift if I got my proposal draft completed by that date. It was really a bad bad idea to do this. I thought it might motivate me, but I realize now that I was getting sucked into his view...that it was about motivation. It's really not.
But he started getting madder and madder that I wasn't doing it. Of course he never said anything. And in his rigid way, he could not see past that aspect to, oh, say the rest of our 10 years together, to feel moved to get me any kind of gift. You know, I didn't need the damned special gift. But having something that represents our 10 years together. Something that oh, say might last more than two weeks? That's important to me.
At the same time, I feel like a petty child for getting upset about this. But it's the meaning that gets me. Because of this stupid agreement, he can't see past it to reflect on what 10 years together means as a whole?
You know, I really enjoyed thinking about and getting him what I did. I was so excited to give it to him. It meant a great deal to me. I feel sad for him that he could not allow himself to have a similar feeling, and that he tells himself that it was "my fault". I've been a "bad girl."
Screw that.
We've got so much work ahead of us. And it's not easy. It's very painful. Good thing I love the blockhead. But I don't like him much right now.
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on November 17, 2005, at 13:06:57
In reply to Re: Hmm, realization today » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on November 17, 2005, at 8:18:47
((((((gg))))))
> Still, he pretty much said that this whole event was "my fault", since I didn't complete my D proposal, and thus did not "earn" a gift.:-(
Er... Thats not terribly helpful
:-(
(I'm sure you feel bad enough without anybody else 'assisting' you in that)>We had a stupid agreement that I would get a certain anniversary gift if I got my proposal draft completed by that date.
Yeah but... Those are the sorts of agreements that aren't really supposed to be delivered on... Sigh. Maybe its a girl thing??
> but I realize now that I was getting sucked into his view...that it was about motivation. It's really not.
Yeah. Getting it done... Symbolises a whole bunch of stuff. I think... A lot of people struggle with that. That last little bit. I anticipate... A similar struggle. Not this time around. But next time around.
Yeah. 10 years is a long time. I'm sorry gg.
> At the same time, I feel like a petty child for getting upset about this. But it's the meaning that gets me. Because of this stupid agreement, he can't see past it to reflect on what 10 years together means as a whole?Yeah. I think I understand. I think I'd be pretty upset too.
> You know, I really enjoyed thinking about and getting him what I did. I was so excited to give it to him. It meant a great deal to me. I feel sad for him that he could not allow himself to have a similar feeling, and that he tells himself that it was "my fault". I've been a "bad girl."
> Screw that.Yeah. Screw that.
> We've got so much work ahead of us. And it's not easy. It's very painful. Good thing I love the blockhead. But I don't like him much right now.I dont' like him much right now either :-(
I'm sorry.
I don't really know what to say...
Except... That I do understand about deadlines... And about how sometimes they don't happen. And about how other people making us feel worse about them... Doesn't help. It just hurts. I'm sorry.
Posted by allisonross on November 18, 2005, at 10:26:52
In reply to Re: Hmm, realization today » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on November 17, 2005, at 8:18:47
> Thanks, alex.
>
> I talked to him about this. It was not pretty. He's got some very rigid ways of looking at the world. At behavior. Motivation. Etc.My ex was rigid also; everything in black and white.
(that's why he is my ex, LOL---actually it was that pesky 31 years of abuse thing)
>
> It reminded me that he really doesn't "get" depression. It's all about motivation and will to him. Ha, if only. And toss in neurosis, and he's in way over his head.Has he gotten himself educated about it? And if so, does he just CHOOSE to believe what he wants to in light of hard facts?
We all construct our own versions of reality; too bad it is at your expense.
>
> Still, he pretty much said that this whole event was "my fault", since I didn't complete my D proposal, and thus did not "earn" a gift.I think I know this man; in my case, everything had STRINGS.
The words: "fault" and "earn" have no place between 2 adults; since when is he your parent?
We had a stupid agreement that I would get a certain anniversary gift if I got my proposal draft completed by that date. It was really a bad bad idea to do this. I thought it might motivate me, but I realize now that I was getting sucked into his view...that it was about motivation. It's really not.
What does an anniversary gift have to do with ANYthing else? You should get a gift to mark the occasion.
I of course, don't know the whole scenario, story, but it sounds like a parent trying to bribe a child.
>
> But he started getting madder and madder that I wasn't doing it. Of course he never said anything. And in his rigid way, he could not see past that aspect to, oh, say the rest of our 10 years together, to feel moved to get me any kind of gift. You know, I didn't need the damned special gift. But having something that represents our 10 years together. Something that oh, say might last more than two weeks? That's important to me.Yes, it was a normal----expectation!
>
> At the same time, I feel like a petty child for getting upset about this.Feelings are not right...or wrong....they just....are. They need to be honored, and payed attention to.
Tut it's the meaning that gets me. Because of this stupid agreement, he can't see past it to reflect on what 10 years together means as a whole?
I see CONTROL issue(s) here.
>
> You know, I really enjoyed thinking about and getting him what I did. I was so excited to give it to him. It meant a great deal to me. I feel sad for him that he could not allow himself to have a similar feeling, and that he tells himself that it was "my fault". I've been a "bad girl."This is a parent talking to a child thinking. I hear blaming and shaming. Punishment.
I hear: verbal abuse.
I could be wrong, because I am only reading words, but you might want to check out the book that saved my life: The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans.
Since 1 out of every 3 women are being abused (i believe it is more like 2 out of every 3), and verbal abuse is rampant in our society, and goes mostly....unnoticed, recognized, nor dealt with....
.it's the last...best-kept secret in the Universe; no one sees it, or understands what is going on. I'm on my soapbox here, but I am passionate about this subject; I counsel abused women;
60-75 percent of women going to a therapist.....are there....because of verbal (emotional) abuse.
I believe this book should be required reading for everyone on the planet.
>
> Screw that.
>
> We've got so much work ahead of us.Are you in counseling, or do you mean, working on the stuff without a therapist?
And it's not easy. It's very painful. Good thing I love the blockhead. But I don't like him much right now.
>
> gg
Hugs, Ally
Posted by antigua on November 18, 2005, at 16:40:24
In reply to Re: Hmm, realization today » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on November 17, 2005, at 8:18:47
Sorry about the trouble. Sometimes things build up and explode on special occasions. I remember one anniversary things were so bad that my husband totally missed our anniversary. I remembered, but didn't say a word. I wondered how long it would take until he noticed. It took several days.
Now, my husband is really a very nice guy but he doesn't get it sometimes. We celebrated our 25th recently, and yes I got roses, and that was very nice, but it was our 25th anniversary! He didn't get it. I was hurt, but marriages are ebb and flow. It's too bad that the ceremony itself can be used against the marriage.
Keep working on it; at this point it seems your marriage is certainly worth it.
good luck,
antigua
Posted by Damos on November 21, 2005, at 15:48:14
In reply to Hmm, realization today, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 20:12:56
Aw GG, that sux in so many ways. Can't believe he'd stick to the 'gift in exchange for' deal. Sadly sounds like something my dad would do. Well hopefully you'll be able to get a smile out of this.
http://www.pwwhite.com/mansong.swf
(((GG)))
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