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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by deerock on December 12, 2009, at 9:28:57
i think my therapist may have been scared of me. how can i trust someone who thinks im capable of hurting them?
has anyone ever had a therapist feel endangered by them and then you were able to move beyond it? im wondering, since it seems my therapist was scared by me and called today and wants to keep working together.
how can i ever trust this woman knowing she actually thought i was going to harm her?
Posted by Nadezda on December 12, 2009, at 17:17:00
In reply to trust and therapeautic alliance, posted by deerock on December 12, 2009, at 9:28:57
Could you explain how her fear of you would undermine your trust in her? I can see how it might undermine your confidence that you can control your anger, or that you might fear that if you lost control again, the working alliance could be permanently ruptured. If so, that might be a question you really need to discuss with her.
It seems that she had a response immediately after you told her yet is open to continuing.. Her response could give you valuable information about how scary you are when you're enraged, assuming you had decided that you could trust her previously.
If I recall correctlly, she didn't say definitely that she couldn't work with you, but that she had some concerns. She may have thought that, given your anger, you might feel that you couldn't work with her-- or that your anger might get in the way in the future. Or she might be concerned that it's a sign that you don't trust her enough for the work to continue.
Without discussing it further with her, even if you do terminate, you won't have much understanding of what really happened.
Nadezda
Posted by deerock on December 12, 2009, at 17:33:32
In reply to Re: trust and therapeautic alliance, posted by Nadezda on December 12, 2009, at 17:17:00
I agree. I am discussing it with her on Tuesday. I am really confused because I was not enraged. I simply shared a fantasy I had that was an enraged fantasy. But I was quite calm and tactful about it. I first asked if it was ok if I shared something disturbing. She said she was ok with it. And then I shared it and she started crying. I was calm while I was saying it but it was pretty messed up since it involved harming something very dear to her.
If someone was afraid of you, Nadezda, would you trust them? If they are scared of you, clearly their opinion of you is that you are potentially dangerous. If someone saw you this way, you would trust them? I don't understand why you're confused about that or trying to parse it out. It's simple, isnt it? If my rageful fantasy was enough to cause her to ask me to seek a consult and consider terminating me, then clearly she thinks that something bad is happening between us. If she is unable to navigate it and steer it to resolution, then I don't feel safe sharing my feelings with her.
Maybe I am confused though. To my mind, saying I am having a fantasy and sharing it in an objective way is quite different than laying out a threat. So I likely need more information about what lead to her feeling unsafe or that something really bad was brewing. Her words were "this is destructive and i do not want to participate in it." she was referring to our relationship.
i guess it falls on me because i seem to have a knack for bringing people to their breaking point. i just didnt think she was ignorant enough to fall for it. and i guess i also didnt realize i was doing it.
Posted by southernsky on December 12, 2009, at 18:16:07
In reply to trust and therapeautic alliance, posted by deerock on December 12, 2009, at 9:28:57
Because my T is honest with me, even with stuff that 'I don't want to hear', it makes all the difference in the world for me...it is an indication he is accepting me for who I am, rather that who he thinks I should be or who he woudl want me to be-because he wants me to be nobody but me....flaws and all.
From what I have read and especially from some Ts I have experienced, not all Ts are that honest, by far.It seems she is so genuine and honest with you......that says 100% trust to me.
After all she can't really control her ability to actually feel fear....can anyone really control whether or not to feel that emotion? How would she have known what the fantasy was going to be?From the outside, it seems she truly wants to help you be your best....even if it might be uncomfortable for her in doing so.
If you tend to push people away from you out of fear of __________ (fill in the blank-many of us do this), then perhaps revealing the fantasy was an unconscious attempt on your part to push her away from you.If you've put up defenses all these years in terms of relationships-its tough to let go, to change. It could be your pattern in how you relate to others, which could give you a lot of insights if you work this out with her....
also not trusting her because she felt fear, basing a decision on whether to stay or go, could be a defense to avoid becoming (emotionally) intimate with her, rather than what it seems on the surface.
Could be, in actuality, that you are scared because she still accepted you for your true self-despite having been that scared. For anyone hiding their true self for years, whatever your age may be, if that is the case, it would be very scary for someone to accept you as you are if you have not exposed your true self to anyone since childhood....Plus we can still love others and be scared at the same time-mother/son, for example. We can still love others when we are angry with them-it happens all the time.
I can see your reasoning, but imo have no doubts you should definitely continue with this T and you'd be making a huge mistake to quit now. You might not like this idea, but I also think you should thank her for sticking with you.
Posted by deerock on December 12, 2009, at 22:19:26
In reply to Re: trust and therapeautic alliance, posted by southernsky on December 12, 2009, at 18:16:07
thanks for your input. i guess i have a lot of mixed emotions. on one level, i am thankful she is sticking with me. on another level, i feel if she was any good at what she does things would have never gotten to a point where my rage was as intense as it was. im definitely going to stick it out with her and i appreciate that she is willing to do so.
im curious why you think i should thank her for sticking with me. is the idea that she is half responsible for my becoming so enraged really a total delusion? i guess somewhere inside me i have a feeling that if she did certain things differently, i have no idea what, this would not have exploded the way it has.
Posted by southernsky on December 14, 2009, at 15:38:03
In reply to Re: trust and therapeautic alliance » southernsky, posted by deerock on December 12, 2009, at 22:19:26
Hi again, I wanted to answer your question...
"im curious why you think i should thank her for sticking with me. is the idea that she is half responsible for my becoming so enraged really a total delusion? i guess somewhere inside me i have a feeling that if she did certain things differently, i have no idea what, this would not have exploded the way it has."
Yes-I'm think it is delusional to think she is half responsible for your rage and think it has nothing to do with her, but is a transference feeling from childhood relations - which is by its definition somewhat delusional but of course very common and i think perfectly normal.
I think you've alreayd figured out everything, but didn't want to leave your question unanswered. I know Ts can push our buttons sometimes, but her willingness to allow you to share your fantasy seems to indicate she could not be the 'cause' of the rage within you. It seems to me you own those feelings, and she just encouraged you to share it with her, rather than being the cause of it. I don't see how she would be half responsible for your becoming enraged as you said above...I only see her responsible for encouraging you to share it. That's just my observation.
As far as thanking her...that crossed my mind because she seems so committed. A T doesn't have to treat any of us if they are uncomfortable with. It seems like your therapeutic relationship is intense. I think she is really committed to you and really cares about your progress but it must be very difficult to continue absorb another's anger and thats basically what it comes down to-her willingness to continually absorb your anger in her willingness to help you.
While it's Ts "job", they are only human and it sounds emotionally exhausting...any T can say I don't want to deal with this because its too difficult...and decide to only take on 'easier' patients..meaning, perhaps, patients who don't continually project anger onto the T. Not saying this in a negative way, because we are all different..and not saying I'm an easy or totally pleasant patient, but I don't (or haven't yet) have anger against T. All my feelings towards him are positive. Not that it won't happen later...but just an example of different patients, different types and levels of intensity.
I think you've showed a ton of insight, and before you know it, will arrive at the next step in your progress. :)
Posted by deerock on December 15, 2009, at 6:28:17
In reply to Re: trust and therapeautic alliance, posted by southernsky on December 14, 2009, at 15:38:03
thanks southernesky. im seeing her tonight. we will see how it goes.
is your T same sex as you or different?
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