![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 64bowtie on May 22, 2005, at 14:20:23
Since and because I stopped by Babble a year and a half ago, I now know what to say and how to say it. I know now the beginning, middle, and the end of the story. The difference is that I used to be messy at my life before, and now see my way clearly, clearly enough to dedicate my life to helping others to see clearly.
With freedom and happiness as the end game, I can now show and suggest dramatic changes to those in the throws of affective despair. I mean significant freedom and happiness, not just someone's knee-jerk opinion of freedom and happiness as “carefree-comfort” might be.
I suggest we stop behavior, feelings and motives long enough to discover which ones are our own. Equally important is to identify which behaviors, feelings and motives are really of any value to our lives. We can then salvage those elements that belong to us and are useful in our lives. The rest we simply let go of.
Change does not mean loss! We don't loose anything by giving up what/who isn't ours and/or what/who isn’t useful to us. The moment we discover that we have time free of struggle and free of upsetness and conflict, we may take an un-hurried/un-harried look into our mirror, allowing us to find our unattenuated self looking back. At this point, the living of a life we so long for may begin.
Rod
Posted by Dinah on May 22, 2005, at 20:22:23
In reply to Self Modality, posted by 64bowtie on May 22, 2005, at 14:20:23
Change always means loss, Rod. In order to reach out to grasp ahead, we have to let go of what's behind. And it might not always seem like something worth holding on to. Yet, it is. It has provided us with whatever security or comfort we've managed to hang on to in all these years.
If you want people to change, you have to make what they're reaching for look enticing enough to let go. And you have to stand there with your arms outstretched so that they won't be afraid of falling. And you have to be patient if at the last minute they are afraid and turn back.
My therapist has consistently done all those things. It's hard to make change look enticing to me. And I need to feel very safe to loosen my grasp on the familiar. And I do get scared and turn back.
And he's there when I do. Coaxing and teasing me on. Showing how solid he is, and how he can easily bear my weight should I fall.
I think it'll be easiest for you to help others move forward, Rod, if you understand how much you're asking them to give up.
Posted by 64bowtie on May 23, 2005, at 1:49:31
In reply to Re: Self Modality » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on May 22, 2005, at 20:22:23
> Change always means loss, Rod.
<<< » Dinah » judging from Babble reactions to my posts in the recent past, I don't dare say or do anything to disagree... I might get a PBC... I suspect you may have misunderstood the timber and intent of my comment... I hope... at least...
100% of the professionals, school teachers, employment couselors, ministers, University Professors, musicians, and even a couple of ex-convicts I have shared my thoughts with, are startled that anyone would grieve a loss as a result of simple change. Grieving a death as a change is obviously a different matter.
They all agree that anyone they know with an affective disorder seems to fall into the trap of seeking certainty, and that simple change seems an assault on certainty. Change, however, brings vibrant new and exciting results. Change is exciting to adults who accept their adulthood, I find to be so... sorta...
I got the clues for self-directed recovery from "The Road Less Traveled" by M. Scott Peck. After 30 plus years working with clients, he assures the reader that no change can come from the therapist, the 'mechanic' the client hires to fix them. Change is inevitable as well as the results are uncertain.
Our courage will carry us across the threshholds that our 'dependency-objects' no longer can, nor should, since we are all now adults.
Rod
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 1:55:38
In reply to » Dinah » What do I do now???, posted by 64bowtie on May 23, 2005, at 1:49:31
That philosophy may well work with those who aren't afraid of change. I was just trying to expand your horizons into other, unfamiliar, ways of thinking.
I do see loss in change. So does my therapist. And he's a huge Peck devotee.
Hmmm.... This would be easier with an example. Could you provide an example? I'll try to think of one, if you can't.
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 1:59:00
In reply to » Dinah » What do I do now???, posted by 64bowtie on May 23, 2005, at 1:49:31
If you don't wish to work with the harder cases, then as Emily Litella says... "Never mind".
Posted by 64bowtie on May 23, 2005, at 2:03:49
In reply to On the other hand..., posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 1:59:00
Posted by 64bowtie on May 23, 2005, at 2:28:29
In reply to Re: Oh Rod :) » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 1:55:38
> That philosophy may well work with those who aren't afraid of change. I was just trying to expand your horizons into other, unfamiliar, ways of thinking.
>
> Hmmm.... This would be easier with an example. Could you provide an example? I'll try to think of one, if you can't.<<< I'll work with anyone who embraces self-respect and disciplined discipline (Scott Peck)... It's about updating; a much less changey sort of change, I suppose... Freedom to update comes with emancipation... usually... Otherwise our whole lives consist of overcoming the torment that results from denial and indecision to meet the imposing demands of those we remain obligated to from our childhood(s)...
Thanx for the smiley face... Mine is \:^)
Rod
PS: Sure wish I could meet you gals at Chicago... My gal friend was expecting me on the 9th instead of the 3rd... But now she'll be outta town on the 10th, 11th and 12th, so I can't be there then either... Booo, Hooo!
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 9:30:00
In reply to I thought was Rosanna Rosanna Danna... (nm) » Dinah, posted by 64bowtie on May 23, 2005, at 2:03:49
No, she was "If it's not one thing, it's another."
Emily Litella was hard of hearing. So she'd give an editorial on "endangered feces" and at the end, Chevy would whisper that it was "endangered species."
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 9:31:18
In reply to Re: Oh Rod :) » Dinah, posted by 64bowtie on May 23, 2005, at 2:28:29
Yeah, me too.
I'd be happy to continue this conversation, but i still think it'd best be done with concrete examples.
I'll give it some thought.
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 11:34:01
In reply to Re: Oh Rod :) » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 9:31:18
Ok. I used to think that I was responsible for everything, because in my family of origin, my parents allowed me to think I was responsible for everything.
Over time, I've changed quite a bit, thanks to my therapist.
But I did give something up in changing.
I gave up the illusion of power, and the illusion of the safety of thinking you have control over something you really can't control.
You might say an illusion is nothing to give up. But it is something very important to someone who grew up with minimal stability. The illusion of control is a lot indeed.
I was able to give that up *only* because my therapist recognized what a big sacrifice it was for me to give it up, gave me alternatives, and stood by so that I felt safe letting go.
If he had said I wasn't giving anything up, I would have clung tightly to what I had, because I would have realized that he didn't understand how really important it was. And how can you give something up on the advice of someone who doesn't understand what they're asking you to do?
Posted by sunny10 on May 23, 2005, at 12:37:40
In reply to Re: Oh Rod :) » Dinah, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 11:34:01
and the funniest part is that Rad stopped ME with the suggestion that I could stop reacting at all...(smile)... If I could do THAT, my entire psychosis would be "cured" !!! Much less actually having to grieve a loss (change)... aaaack...
Yours truly,
sunny10
MDD, GAD (thus catastrophizer)P.S. One size truly does not fit all...
Posted by 64bowtie on May 25, 2005, at 0:58:36
In reply to Re: Oh Rod :), posted by sunny10 on May 23, 2005, at 12:37:40
Sunny, I have always indicated that as I moved away from my nuttiness, I saw myself move toward Freedom and Happiness. My cravings fell away and Freedom and Happiness became more attractive.
More attractive than what you might ask? That's my point about my not assuming 'one size fits all'. I am not insisting that my degree of attraction is the only version of this story. It is my version though....! And my version is conclusive enough and works well enough for those, with even a tiny bit of courage, to try on and see what fits and what doesn't........
I enjoy sharing....... That's all I'm about..... Sharing! I got some extras, so I invite you to take a few of this and a few of that! I do hope you will share your glee or disgust by telling me how these things might fit...............
Rod
Posted by 64bowtie on May 25, 2005, at 1:06:01
In reply to Re: Oh Rod :) » Dinah, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2005, at 11:34:01
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.