![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 39. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 19, 2005, at 17:50:19
Hi everyone,
Things in therapy have been going okay for me, mostly. Until yesterday. My session was so weird. After I left, it bothered me more and more. We talked about a certain subject, at my request, leaving other things behind for now, because I'm so stressed about it I can't focus on anything else. Has to do with me needing to find a part time job, and why I seem to be so scared of some of the steps needed to do so. To my surprise, it's triggering all sorts of feelings of worthlessness, incompetance (sp.?), self-loathing - all sorts of nasty stuff. I knew I was sensitive around this, but not to THIS degree. Meaning I cried a good portion of the time. There is nothing unusual about that, and I am okay with all sorts of reasons for crying in session with him. Normally, although it's hard to pin down what he says or does, he helps with the feeling so bad and the tears somehow, just by validating things, and contradicting those that are just way out there (negative). And also by *being* in the room in a certain way. Who can articulate this? Not I, but I trust most know what I mean. Well, yesterday he was so not there :-(
So what happened? Somehow, even though I think I recall saying plenty of bad stuff about myself, he just wasn't "there" to soften it or argue with it. Just kept taking notes and saying nothing. It was like we were complete strangers in the room. I make only occasional eye contact, but this time was worse than ever. I remember worrying I'd look up and find a bad look on his face - bored, angry at my stupid ramblngs, or staring off into space - something. And when I did peek, I noticed his foot tapping like crazy. Now he does this some, but never this much. Every time I peeked, his foot was going 100mph. Maybe this is my stuff, but I used to do that too, before ADD meds and a calmer mindset, etc. Quite often for me, it did mean I was bored, impatient, needing out of the situation. So that's how I felt he felt.
More than that, there were a few too many, "Mmm-hmms," and "uh-huhs" for my taste. That can get really dismissive and patronizing to my ears. Is this crazy? Am I projcting all over the place? We talked about my projecting a lot yesterday, and I agreed that when I'd say I thought he should laugh at me, or think I'm a failure, or an idiot, or a waste of human flesh - that YES, those were my thoughts about myself I was attributing to him.
But. Everything can't be chalked up to projection, right? I mean, the man has to be available with his own thoughts and feelings part of the time, right? So I can test out things with him, and have some give and take. And most of all stay connected. (I swear sometimes I'd do anything for that connection. Frantic. Desparate about it.) Yesterday, he seemed like a stone, or almost a blank slate (and he's NOT a blank slate T.) or something. I just felt so ALONE in there. But I can't think of something to say he was doing or saying to cause this. I also felt, very early on but I don't know when, that all the safety just left the room. Felt like the rest of the session was a fake interaction. A business meeting, or a bad interview. Yukky.
So....I send him an email this a.m., briefly explaining how badly I felt, how I was worried what he was thinking yesterday, that we felt like strangers, I didn't feel safe, etc. I also asked for an extra session (I go 1x/week on Wed.). Felt like an idiot sending that, but when I agonzed over it, I thought better to fight this through, no matter how confusing or uncomfortable, than to hold it in for a week.
I'm already having "depression-lite" and working to keep it from escalating, if I can. Hard to apply for jobs if you slide downward, obviously. So I was afraid not to address this. I'll admit, I was testing him, too. Not consciously when I wrote/sent the email, but now I realize I was. I HAVE to find out how valuable this therapy with me is to HIM. He knows I'm anxious about losing it if I don't start working (the copay will become impossible in a couple months, tops). But if HE doesn't "care enough," then how can I? Well, he sent the following email back, leaving me feeling quite a bit better. Wondering what you guys think:
"I am so sorry that you feel this way. Upon reflection, I am at a loss (which is not good) to identify how or when the safety was sucked out of the room. It sounds to me like you are more than worried, you sound wounded. It would never be my intent to leave you feeling wounded or to send the message that I don't care. Can you come in tomorrow at 1030? I would like to give you the opportunity to address this before the weekend."?? Probably nothing monumentally wonderful, but I was relieved. Anyone who leaves voicemails/emails for their T's know what I mean? The doubts you have after, that you'll get an answer you can't stand, or no answer, or he'll misunderstand, or be all prickly-sounding..?
(Dinah especially) Does this sound like fighting to relationship? It is very confusing and hard. I doubt my own gut instincts more with this T. more than anywhere in life. I know it's only been 6 months with him - hard to compare to your long relationship, but... I guess I'm looking for reassurance he's reasonably caring about me. That we both sound like we're on the right track to strengthen the relationship.
This post didn't flow so well, but I'm not very focused. Too worried about tomorrow. Don't know how to approach it. If he didn't notice anything, then maybe I'm making it all up?! But I can't be - something WAS wrong. How can I explain it to him, though? Guess I'm pretty scared of leaving there two times in a row feeling empty and like we just met.
Because that feeling sucked :-(
Posted by pegasus on May 19, 2005, at 18:25:27
In reply to Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long), posted by 10derHeart on May 19, 2005, at 17:50:19
Oh, I hate sessions like that. Good for you for letting him know how it felt to you. And his reply seems good to me. I hope that now that you've alerted him to your feelings about that session, he'll be working extra hard to make the next one (tomrorrow) feel more connected. Or at least address whatever was going on directly. It seems like you were willing to do that, and started the whole process with your email.
Much luck in your next session. I hope you feel much better afterwards. I know you must be anxious about feeling even worse, but your T's email sounds promising.
pegasus
Posted by Dinah on May 19, 2005, at 19:12:43
In reply to Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long), posted by 10derHeart on May 19, 2005, at 17:50:19
10der, it sounds very good to me. He sounded concerned and empathetic. I'm sure that you'll get through this with a deeper understanding of what is happening in the therapy room. And yes, that is part of fighting to relationship.
My guess is that he really wasn't there as much as usual. That's good in a way, because it means he's all the way there an awful lot. No one can be one hundred percent always there.
I get frantic when I can't feel that connection, even now. But I'm a lot more aware while it's happening.
So my first line of attack is to try to draw him into the interaction subtly. If that doesn't work, I now tell him outright "It doesn't feel like you're completely here today. I don't feel comfortable talking about something important to me unless you're completely here." That usually brings him the rest of the way into the room, along with an occasional apology or brief explanation. But even if he doesn't realize he wasn't fully there, my saying so usually rectifies the problem. I must admit to liking it better when I can draw him in indirectly, shades of teasing my parents into a good humor I suspect.
If it still doesn't fix the problem (very rare nowadays), I leave feeling anxious and distressed. Much like an infant must feel when Mom is distracted and not totally there.
Can you ask him if he would mind if you ask next time? That if you sense that he's not fully engaged, is it ok to ask if he's really all there today?
Because I think the biggest part of emotional holding is both persons being fully engaged in the moment, and both persons contributing their fair share of emotions.
Posted by Shortelise on May 19, 2005, at 19:24:17
In reply to Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long), posted by 10derHeart on May 19, 2005, at 17:50:19
My T has helped me to understand that I have to do reality checks with people. Esp with him and my husband. And when in reality check mode, I have to HAVE TO get an honest answer.
So, when I say to my husband, you seem a little angry about something - Are you angry at me, if he is a little p/o'ed about something, anything, no matter how trivial, he HAS to tell me. With my T it's the same thing. He is very very good - he stops and thinks, kind of examines his own psyche - and sometimes he will say, yes, I am feeling a little impatient (or whatever), I'm sorry, it's something I struggle with. Or he'll tell me he's been on call all weekend and is tired. Or he'll tell me that no, he isn't anywhere but there in the room with me.
It astonishes me that he can be so honest. He admits if he has screwed up. SOmetimes he'll come back the next week and apologize or explain about something he said that he felt he shouldn't - and I hadn't even noticed.
So, I know we've talked about this here before, and I've probably written the above before, but it illustrated to me the importance of a T putting the needs of the client before his own. It's hard to say, y'know, I am just having a lousy day and maybe I'm not the best T right now. It's ok for a T to have a lousy day, to act a little oddly (snort!) once in a while, BUT THEY MUST ADMIT THAT IT'S THEM, NOT US. Because sometimes it IS them, sometimes it's not projection or whatever. It's not as if T's are inhuman.
It was my T who helped me to understand that when I was a little one I often had to guess at how those around me were feeling as they would say one thing when they were feeling another, my mother in particular for some reason couldn't admit to her feeings, but her actions always belied them.
Now, in therapy and with my husband, it has to be clear and honest. They have to let me know what is them and what is me when it comes up for me.
I know I've over explained this, forgive me, but it's so essential to my well-being that I wanted to be very clear. I hope it helps.
ANd, by the way, it might also help if you tell your T what it was you needed from him, what you expected and were not getting.
ShortE
Posted by 10derHeart on May 19, 2005, at 19:24:41
In reply to Re: Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long), posted by pegasus on May 19, 2005, at 18:25:27
Thanks, pegasus
Your post had a nice, calming effect on me.
Maybe he was having a bad day in some way and it showed through. I can be super-sensitive to little things. (But aren't we all with T's!) I know some folks here have said that a bad session is usually followed by a good one, so I'm hopeful. For him to write that's he "so sorry" about my feeling bad touched me. That was important.
I guess anything that truly matters is worth the discomfort of fighting to keep it safe and strong, right?
PS - I try to keep up even when I never post to some people....how's the little one? Get to do anything with two hands today?
Posted by sleepygirl on May 19, 2005, at 23:10:40
In reply to Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long), posted by 10derHeart on May 19, 2005, at 17:50:19
hey,I'm appreciating your post, and oh so shaking my head to that fear I know so well. Addressing whatever slights I perceive from my therapist is so terrifying to me, I can't stand risking that what I feel might be true. But, I'm glad you got a response, and good for you for addressing it. May you breathe a little easier soon. Hope it helps you work some stuff through(that's me searching for the silver lining). take good care of yourself.
Posted by LadyBug on May 19, 2005, at 23:49:43
In reply to Re: Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long), posted by sleepygirl on May 19, 2005, at 23:10:40
Your post reminds me of myself about 3 years ago. I was suffering from a deep depression. I thought about suicide all the time. I knew I needed to find a job, though my self esteem was in the toilet. Our finances were a disaster. I didn't have what it took to pound the pavement to land a job. Things were hard for me and my therapist. She had me calling her every night, just to check in and make sure I was ok. I became too much for her and she got angry with me and changed all my boundaries/rules in a matter of the last remaining 20 min. of our hour together.
I left my appointment crying vowing never to return. She hurt me deeper than I'd ever been hurt. But I had to face the hard stuff about myself and try to put myself back together. It was hard as hell, but I did it. I went back to my T. and we managed to recover from our "Black Day". That was a ton of work. It took us a few years.
I looked everyday for a job. ANY job. I finally got a great job that I loved. It was the best thing that could have happened to me at the time. My self esteem grew like crazy. The people I worked with appreciated me and told me how good I was!!! That was over 2 years ago and I feel blessed to have found the job that was right for me. I haven't made a ton of money, but it's helped me grow in ways I wouldn't have grown otherwise.
I wish you strength in what you need to get what you want. If I can pull myself up from the black hole I was in, I think anyone can.
Keep working at it and you will find the answers.LadyBug
Posted by messadivoce on May 20, 2005, at 0:11:12
In reply to Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long), posted by 10derHeart on May 19, 2005, at 17:50:19
Yikes, 10der, I can't imagine needing that safe place and having it be a void instead!! That is so amazing that he had no clue that you were feeling that way, and in his e-mail was not able to pinpoint why the safety net went away. I'm so glad he is not going to let this sit over the weekend. It will probably make him feel better too, if you're feeling bad. Sounds like he's a caring person. I'm glad for that. Let us know how tomorrow goes.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 20, 2005, at 9:06:55
In reply to Re: Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long), posted by Shortelise on May 19, 2005, at 19:24:17
ShortE,
This was great. I don't think you over-explained it at all. At least not for my brain - it was just right.
And it makes tons of sense. For some reason, though, when I imagine saying certain things about emotions - his, not mine - to my T.. I cringe inside and am not sure I can say them. I agree with all you wrote and I suspect my T. is VERY capable of admitting if and when he messes up.
No, I don't suspect, I actually know. Although it was sort of a small thing. A few months back, he used a DSM diagnosis for my insurance without talking to me first. Because my history is that I was in therapy with a pdoc he knew slightly, and to him I clearly had MDD symptoms, he assumed I'd always had that diagnosis. Oops. Wrong. Just so happens my ex-T (the pdoc) just never went there - for a psychiatrist he just isn't a dx kind of guy. More interested in the here and now and the person - the DSM was an annoyance to him sometimes. Cool guy :-) So, the only DSM codes I'd ever seen in my records were for ADD (my presenting problem 3 yrs. ago) and maybe an adjustment disorder for a brief time.
So, to get this copy of the insurance authorization for therapy for the next 6 months, and see "Major Depressrive Disorder, Recurrent Episodes, Moderate," really freaked me out. Now, I got over it quickly. I completely agree that I fit the criteria to a "T" (bad pun, sorry). But the thing was - TALK to me first. Don't assume. Don't forget. Don't EVER think something I see in writing that came from you won't have a strong effect on me.
Well, he was great. He was so flustered and flipped back in his notes, muttering to himself he thought I'd, 1) already had this dx, and 2) that we'd briefly talked about it. Nope. I told him no, that my memory was clear. And he checked, and he looked SO upset with himself and IMMEDIATELY said it was his fault, that was a big mistake, that he understood totally how reading it on some impersonal letter would make me feel like cr*p. I wanted to comfort him, he apologized so profusely and sincerely for his faulty memory and assumption. It turned into a very good moment.
Sorry...got carried away story-telling. Point is, he's got it in him. BUT, today, if he really didn't sense anything, and I sensed everything....I already doubt myself. It'll be hard for me to hold the self-confidence I need long enough to describe his body language, lack of feedback, etc. I feel somehow it's wrong of me to watch his body language,or "accuse" him of not giving me enough emotional involvement the other day. My head has it, but my heart is afraid.
But I'll give it my best shot. I surely have his attention now, so maybe he'll help a lot. Hope so. Your post helps. I printed it to read over before I go in. I'll let you know what happens.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 20, 2005, at 9:22:57
In reply to Re: Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long) » 10derHeart, posted by Dinah on May 19, 2005, at 19:12:43
Hi Dinah,
You must have a sixth sense, or I'm just so fortunate you were checking this board so soon after I posted. I really wanted your take on this before I went back this morning.
> My guess is that he really wasn't there as much as usual. That's good in a way, because it means he's all the way there an awful lot. No one can be one hundred percent always there.
What a great point. I may say this to him. I think it would be a nice thing to point out. We've been disconnected before - recently - but it wasn't like this. It was more me. So in six months, this seems like the 1st time. Pretty good track record ;-)
> I get frantic when I can't feel that connection, even now. But I'm a lot more aware while it's happening.
Yeah. Awareness I'm usually pretty darn good at. But I was so distressed about trying to explain my fears of finding a new job, I was less "myself" than usual. My mistake was not pausing to let the "subtext" running through my head the other day come out. It wasn't really up at the surface till I was leaving...and you know how that can feel. Time's up, gotta go, great - can't say the most important thing.
>I leave feeling anxious and distressed. Much like an infant must feel when Mom is distracted and not totally there.
This resonates so much with me I can't stand it.
Perhaps that child is me is stirring and trying to teach me some things more than I want to admit right now.> Can you ask him if he would mind if you ask next time? That if you sense that he's not fully engaged, is it ok to ask if he's really all there today?
Sure. I likely can say that. I'm generally fairly bold about these things. I almost don't have to ask. He would wholeheartedly endorse me doing that, I know. I just didn't this time. Perhaps being caught off guard or something.
> Because I think the biggest part of emotional holding is both persons being fully engaged in the moment, and both persons contributing their fair share of emotions.
This may be the most important thing you wrote to me. You put it so well. Your post is getting printed off, along with ShortE's. Like I told her, I seem to have some fear of talking about his emotions. Don't know if I sound like I'm attacking his skills, or demanding something he should only have to give as he sees fit, or what. But if I'm determined, I'll tell him I'm hesitating and why, and it will come out anyway.
Wish me determination and focus. And not to deflect with jokes. He won't go for that, I'm sure, but I may try it to relieve the tension and stall that way. I'm so predictable.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 20, 2005, at 9:26:35
In reply to Re: Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long), posted by sleepygirl on May 19, 2005, at 23:10:40
sleepygirl,
Thanks for your reply. It's always good to hear how someone "gets" what the fear is about. It's frustrating, because usually, I am fairly far along the road here - when it comes to NOT fearing these conversations with a T. So when, for me, I slip backwards, that part is as upsetting and confusing as the actual issue.
I'm sure your silver lining will be exactly what I'll find. I'll let you all know.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 20, 2005, at 11:20:35
In reply to Re: Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long) » sleepygirl, posted by 10derHeart on May 20, 2005, at 9:26:35
Your post reminded me so much of the bad session I had several weeks ago. It's such an awful feeling. I know I was an absolute mess. I never felt like I was absolutely floundering, even drowning at times as I did then. I still bring it up in sessions, to highlight something about the relationship or something.
I'm so glad you called your T. I wanted to call mine, but I didn't, so I had to wait a whole week. And his response was great. I hope the session today goes well and it helps you feel connected again.
Good for you for confronting it directly.
(((10der)))
gg
Posted by Jazzed on May 20, 2005, at 12:28:22
In reply to Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long), posted by 10derHeart on May 19, 2005, at 17:50:19
> Hi everyone,
>
> Until yesterday. My session was so weird. After I left, it bothered me more and more. We talked about a certain subject, at my request, leaving other things behind for now, because I'm so stressed about it I can't focus on anything else. Has to do with me needing to find a part time job, and why I seem to be so scared of some of the steps needed to do so. To my surprise, it's triggering all sorts of feelings of worthlessness, incompetance (sp.?), self-loathing - all sorts of nasty stuff. I knew I was sensitive around this, but not to THIS degree. Meaning I cried a good portion of the time. There is nothing unusual about that, and I am okay with all sorts of reasons for crying in session with him. Normally, although it's hard to pin down what he says or does, he helps with the feeling so bad and the tears somehow, just by validating things, and contradicting those that are just way out there (negative). And also by *being* in the room in a certain way. Who can articulate this? Not I, but I trust most know what I mean. Well, yesterday he was so not there :-(
>
> So what happened? Somehow, even though I think I recall saying plenty of bad stuff about myself, he just wasn't "there" to soften it or argue with it. Just kept taking notes and saying nothing. It was like we were complete strangers in the room. I make only occasional eye contact, but this time was worse than ever. I remember worrying I'd look up and find a bad look on his face - bored, angry at my stupid ramblngs, or staring off into space - something. And when I did peek, I noticed his foot tapping like crazy. Now he does this some, but never this much. Every time I peeked, his foot was going 100mph. Maybe this is my stuff, but I used to do that too, before ADD meds and a calmer mindset, etc. Quite often for me, it did mean I was bored, impatient, needing out of the situation. So that's how I felt he felt.
>
> More than that, there were a few too many, "Mmm-hmms," and "uh-huhs" for my taste. That can get really dismissive and patronizing to my ears. Is this crazy? Am I projcting all over the place?
>
>
I think it's great that you jumped right in there and wrote and sent that email to your T. I think it helps them to be more effective with us when we question where they are, and they they are there with us. I would guess that they can be distracted or get bored with us, esp. when things aren't fresh and new, but it's good that your T got right back to you with such a kind and caring response. I hope I find one as nice.
BTW, I've read a lot of ppl email their T's is it commone for them to give us there email addy? Just curious.I hope now that you've raised the issue with him he can be more in the present with you. Did you tell him about the foot tapping? That would drive me batty, but it's something I do all the time.
Jazzed
Posted by Jazzed on May 20, 2005, at 12:31:05
In reply to Re: Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long), posted by LadyBug on May 19, 2005, at 23:49:43
> Your post reminds me of myself about 3 years ago. I was suffering from a deep depression. I thought about suicide all the time. I knew I needed to find a job, though my self esteem was in the toilet. Our finances were a disaster. I didn't have what it took to pound the pavement to land a job. Things were hard for me and my therapist. She had me calling her every night, just to check in and make sure I was ok. I became too much for her and she got angry with me and changed all my boundaries/rules in a matter of the last remaining 20 min. of our hour together.
> I left my appointment crying vowing never to return. She hurt me deeper than I'd ever been hurt. But I had to face the hard stuff about myself and try to put myself back together. It was hard as hell, but I did it. I went back to my T. and we managed to recover from our "Black Day". That was a ton of work. It took us a few years.
> I looked everyday for a job. ANY job. I finally got a great job that I loved. It was the best thing that could have happened to me at the time. My self esteem grew like crazy. The people I worked with appreciated me and told me how good I was!!! That was over 2 years ago and I feel blessed to have found the job that was right for me. I haven't made a ton of money, but it's helped me grow in ways I wouldn't have grown otherwise.
> I wish you strength in what you need to get what you want. If I can pull myself up from the black hole I was in, I think anyone can.
> Keep working at it and you will find the answers.
>
> LadyBugtHIS is so wonderful, "Im glad it worked out so well for you. I probably would've quit T after a day like that, I'm so thin skinned.
Jazz
Posted by Jazzed on May 20, 2005, at 12:37:31
In reply to Re: Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long) » Shortelise, posted by 10derHeart on May 20, 2005, at 9:06:55
>
> No, I don't suspect, I actually know. Although it was sort of a small thing. A few months back, he used a DSM diagnosis for my insurance without talking to me first. Because my history is that I was in therapy with a pdoc he knew slightly, and to him I clearly had MDD symptoms, he assumed I'd always had that diagnosis. Oops. Wrong. Just so happens my ex-T (the pdoc) just never went there - for a psychiatrist he just isn't a dx kind of guy. More interested in the here and now and the person - the DSM was an annoyance to him sometimes. Cool guy :-) So, the only DSM codes I'd ever seen in my records were for ADD (my presenting problem 3 yrs. ago) and maybe an adjustment disorder for a brief time.
>
> So, to get this copy of the insurance authorization for therapy for the next 6 months, and see "Major Depressrive Disorder, Recurrent Episodes, Moderate," really freaked me out. Now, I got over it quickly. I completely agree that I fit the criteria to a "T" (bad pun, sorry). But the thing was - TALK to me first. Don't assume. Don't forget. Don't EVER think something I see in writing that came from you won't have a strong effect on me.
>
>
ARGH! I can see how you could get a real shock out of that dx when you're not expecting that. I made up a list of questions to ask perspective Ts for when I decide to go back, and one of them is "will you give me the same diagnosis as the p-doc, and if not will you discuss the dx with me before you assign it" I'm really sensitive when it comes to this kind of stuff.BTW, your T sounds like a winner!
Jazzed
Is there somewhere where ppl recommend particular T's in the various cities? I think I'll go with a T in my p-doc's office, but could go somewhere else.
Posted by Shortelise on May 20, 2005, at 13:14:40
In reply to Re: Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long) » Shortelise, posted by 10derHeart on May 20, 2005, at 9:06:55
10derheart,
one last thing: you say you feel you shouldn't examine your T's reactions so closely.
My T has been a mirror for me. I watch him carefully, looking for reations. He's a gauge for me. I need that. He is my ulimate reality check. That is what he is for, among other things. We are supposed to watch so carefully - it's part of therapy. It's that relationship thing. You see, if I can learn to say to him, hey, you said blah and I feel blah about it, then I can learn to ask the pharmacist who is always nasty with me to please not speak to me like that, and do it in a kind way. And I have.
To see a dx like that would have thrown me into a horrible state, as I know it did you. I'd like to diagnose the twits who write that dastardly thing!
I'm so happy my post helped. That makes me feel great.
Hope it goes well.
ShortE
Posted by pinkeye on May 20, 2005, at 15:01:24
In reply to Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long), posted by 10derHeart on May 19, 2005, at 17:50:19
Nowadays I am coming to realize more and more, that even though external circumstances are responsible 50 %, the way I react to it is what is important for me.
For instance, I have had several communication gaps with both my ex T and my current T. But the way I reacted to my ex T was 100 times more intense than the way I react to my current T. I have had bad sessions (email sessionS) with my ex T and I have had bad sessions (face to face) with my current T. But I would react so much more vigorously to something slightly wrong that my ex T had said, and I might let go off a huge mistake on my current T. Just because I am so intense with my exT and not at all intense with my current T.
The point is, even though the other party is responsibly for what they do, the way we react to it - that part - we can control.
So if you react too badly to something which you know in your heart you shouldn't be, a good thing to do would be to explore that and see where your reaction is coming from, rather than focussing on if your T missed out something. Every T misses out something many times.
Posted by pegasus on May 20, 2005, at 16:39:57
In reply to Re: Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long) » pegasus, posted by 10derHeart on May 19, 2005, at 19:24:41
Thanks for asking about my baby! And I'm glad my post was calming.
My little girl is great. Sleeping a lot today, so I'm getting some email done. Unfortunately, she seems to like to sleep to this baby einstein CD that is pretty inane, and tends to drive her parents crazy. But anything to get the baby to sleep!
good luck again!
pegasus
Posted by Dinah on May 20, 2005, at 21:48:21
In reply to Re: Relationship with T/Bad Session (very long) » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on May 20, 2005, at 9:22:57
Posted by 10derHeart on May 20, 2005, at 23:42:31
In reply to How'd it go? (nm) » 10derHeart, posted by Dinah on May 20, 2005, at 21:48:21
Thanks for asking. I suspected you might ;-)
We talked really openly. I mean - I always do, but with my eyes staring down and just about my stuff. Not much directly about his behavior until now. It took on a different tone. I was clear about almost all the stuff I wrote in my long post. And more stuff I thought of at the time.
He said all the right things. He was more engaged today. He said he truly can't think of a thing that was bothering him from outside life, in his head - nothing at all the other day. I'm glad he kept steadily saying that, instead of seeming to hem and haw and agree with my perceptions just to "over-validate" them, which I told him I would pick up as a form of dishonesty, and probably come close to a mini-tantrum. He seemed to get that.
I'm glad he stuck to his position (though he kept stressing how it was WAY more important to find out he did things that made the room feel unsafe than whether or not we both could tell he was doing it) because that gave me the opening to let myself just dissolve in tears. Which I pretty much did.
I said that if he didn't see it AT ALL, then I didn't trust my perceptions, or interpretations of a d*mn thing going on in the room. Because how could we see it in such utterly opposite ways? That I was a big idiot. That one didn't get by. I was deemed NOT to be an idiot.
That led to a good talk, I know. But darned if I can tell you about it, because therapy-amnesia has nicely erased it. I so hate that. But the remaining vague memory is that he said nice stuff and I felt better.
I don't know. It was still a little odd. It's okay not to be totally fine in one session. I made a LOT of eye contact today, and felt like I was making sense and had a good "flow" in explaining to him all the stuff that happened to make me feel so alone last time. That felt different and good.
But there's still an emotional distance that feels sad to me. We even talked about that, and it stayed the same. I suppose I was imagining it would go away, and we'd feel closer the minute I talked about it. Uhhh - no.
It was jumbled a lot. My ex-T came up many times - that is unusual. At one point I answered a question (forgot what it was) by saying something about that I couldn't tell him certain things with the "wrong" words, because then he "wouldn't like me." The second I said it I wanted to take it back. I heard myself say it in a small, soft voice. And - big surprise - he started to say something like, "That sounded like an answer not from the adult sitting here with me, but..." I cut him off and told him he didn't have permission to go there.
He backed off right away. He's said before he feels it borders on abuse of his role/power to ever push a topic or a path. We only go if I start first, or, if I tell him explicitly to push me. He is VERY nondirective, obviously. I liked that moment. It felt very safe and powerful for me to decide NOT to talk about any child-part of me today.
Maybe the best thing was right before we stopped and changed to, "here's your check" mode, he scoots to the edge of his chair and asks, "Are you okay?" Sounds so dumb and simple. But he usually doesn't say that. It seemed to bring full circle the fact I wasn't last time, or when I came in today. I told him I was 90% okay, but would have to process the session the rest of the day to get a better sense.
I feel a whole lot more settled, so I guess that's pretty important.
There's more, but I should get a PBC for post length. It's uncivil to subject you to a missive this long. And poorly written at that. It feels awfully good to write about it, though.
Maybe in coming days I can post little bits of the "rest." Provided I get a clue how to be succinct like you are.
Posted by Shortelise on May 20, 2005, at 23:59:41
In reply to It Seems Mostly Alright Now » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on May 20, 2005, at 23:42:31
Thanks for posting 10derheart. Been thinking about you today.
ShortE
Posted by 10derHeart on May 21, 2005, at 0:42:24
In reply to Re: It Seems Mostly Alright Now » 10derHeart, posted by Shortelise on May 20, 2005, at 23:59:41
That's so sweet :-) Thanks.
(((ShortE)))
Posted by Annierose on May 21, 2005, at 6:34:31
In reply to Re: It Seems Mostly Alright Now » Shortelise, posted by 10derHeart on May 21, 2005, at 0:42:24
Your T sounds very thoughtful and sweet. I think those connected feelings will come back. It may take another session or two. I am so glad he was able to see you yesterday, rather than let this brew over the weekend.
Don't apologize over the length of your post. Sometimes it takes lots of words to get it all out, and that is okay. We wanted to know how it went.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 21, 2005, at 8:34:33
In reply to Re: It Seems Mostly Alright Now, posted by Annierose on May 21, 2005, at 6:34:31
>>Your T sounds very thoughtful and sweet.
Well, coming from you I'd have to say...takes one to know one? :-) Thanks for caring - and reading all that.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 21, 2005, at 12:34:00
In reply to Re: It Seems Mostly Alright Now » Annierose, posted by 10derHeart on May 21, 2005, at 8:34:33
I don't think your post was too long. (But then I get a bit wordy, myself.) :)
But you had an entire session to report on, and that's a lot of stuff.
I remember the "wanting everything to be allright in that next session back" feeling. In fact, a lot of that session, after we talked about the prior session stuff, was about exactly that...how I still didn't feel safe or connected, and how bad THAT still felt. It was hard to leave that day knowing it wasn't "all fixed". I'm glad your T recognized that you might still be upset when he asked if you were okay at the end. I would imagine that felt great when he asked. And I'm glad he respects your boundaries. It sounds like you two have a good working relationship. Sometimes the work, though, is about the relationship, and that always seems more intense.
It will get better if you keep talking. It's getting better for me, but it is also fundamentally changed, knowing that he can make mistakes. It's hard when idealized folks come down off the pedestal. Makes things much more vulnerable.
Thanks for sharing this with us.
((((10)))))
gg
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