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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Shortelise on May 13, 2005, at 1:17:20
I wish I understood.Events trigger depression. Kind of pulls the rug out from under me. Whump, down I go. Sometimes it's just sadness for a day, other times it gets me, and it's got me this time.
I don't know why. Is it chemical? Is it habit? Is it a combination of both? I want to pace, pace, pace. Or sit and rock. Someone stole my rocking chair from my front porch. There is a particularly hot place in hell for that person.
I have let my house get in such a mess. It's been spiralling downward for weeks, though my mood has been fine. Now everywhere I look I see just a big, bigger biggest mess and what I want is to gaze on the clean serenity of a Zen garden.
Lots of us here are asking for help just now, and right at the moment I can't do much, so I do understand if others are finding themselves in the same space. But if you have some ideas about this, I'd sure appreciate it. I don't need housekeeping advice, thanks, but I do wonder if anyone has any ideas about why this happens. What these cycles are.
I did phone my T and we talked and he pointed out how these things are transitory, they are part of a continuum. I said I'd like to talk with him about that when I see him. But I am trying to hold on tothat. It's the "this too shall pass" thing, I think, but there may be more to it than that.
Thanks very much.
ShortE
Posted by alexandra_k on May 13, 2005, at 5:39:45
In reply to another cycle, posted by Shortelise on May 13, 2005, at 1:17:20
I don't know why
I don't know why
But if you find that out
I'd like to know myself.I do go up and down a bit...
But I don't understand why it is that sometimes the downs just last a day or two
And why other times they just seem to deepen and intensifyI don't know whether the habit / brain chemistry distinction works...
Change in habit is correlated with neural changes...
But it is impossible to establish cause from correlation.
Does the change in habit cause the change in chemistry which causes the change in feeling?
Does the change in chemistry cause the change in habit which causes the change in feeling?
Does the change in feeling come before the habit and / or the chemistry?Who knows...
I don't know whether there is an answer to that.
They are interrelated.
Each affects each other.
Or... Possibly...
They are all the same thing: the habit, the chemistry, the feeling. Different modes of presentation of the same thing (the thing being brain activity..)Maybe your t can see some patterns in the relationship between your environment and your moods or something that you haven't thought of.
I don't know
Posted by Dinah on May 13, 2005, at 7:59:33
In reply to another cycle, posted by Shortelise on May 13, 2005, at 1:17:20
I've looked for years to tie it to hormones, with no luck. I still think there's something plainly physical about it. My diagnosis is cyclothymia, though I'm not sure that really fits either.
The only other possibility I can think of is one they've raised about my son. That he's so good for so long, and it gets to be too much internal pressure. At that point, even a small trigger can cause a bout of crying.
But that doesn't quite fit for me, either. Although it pretty clearly fits for him. There just doesn't *appear* to be a clear enough pattern for that.
I still lean to some not terribly obvious subgroup of hormones. But I have zero medical knowledge and nothing to back that theory up. :)
Posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 10:35:41
In reply to Re: another cycle » Shortelise, posted by Dinah on May 13, 2005, at 7:59:33
I think we all have different pieces of ourselves, some larger and some smaller, that cope differently with situations. And I think we work hard to keep our strongest pieces up front, to cope with the hard stuff. But when something triggers the old stuff, the more fragile piece, that comes to the forefront, and down we go.
I think those competent parts are just dismayed that "we" can "still" feel hurt, confused, sad, anxious, or any of the above about what seems to not be an overwhelming situation. So we put pressure on ourselves to handle it, to do better, to not cry over spilled milk. And we insist we can hold it, deal with it ourselves...because after all, haven't we spent years in therapy learning to recognize these distorted responses and know where they are coming from?
I think every time these sad parts get triggered, we mourn all over again. Some of us mourn the fact that we have these parts at all!
I think it is interesting that when we have periods where we feel silly, or naughty, or irresponsibly childish, we don't beat ourselves up over these. We kind of like the break from the upfront grown up.
I don't really have an answer for you. My therapist would say don't stuff these feelings away, let yourself feel it fully. I hate that! He would also encourage me to try to tackle some of the disorganization -- make a list, clean one room, make the bed -- whatever you can do to create a carved out peaceful spot for yourself right now. He would also say eat right, rest but not too much and try to take a walk and call him if I needed to just touch base.
I hope you find a way to have a peaceful weekend.
Posted by Shortelise on May 13, 2005, at 11:46:16
In reply to Re: another cycle » Shortelise, posted by alexandra_k on May 13, 2005, at 5:39:45
> I do go up and down a bit...
> But I don't understand why it is that sometimes the downs just last a day or two
> And why other times they just seem to deepen and intensifyThat's what makes me really wonder - how is can last just an afteroon sometimes, and other times, as you put it, the sadness deepens and intesifies.
What I fear, really fear, is that some part of me is saying, oh, I know this! I like this! And I somehow leap on the gearshift and shift into depression mode, back onto that well-worn neural pathway.
Who knows is right. I sure don't.
I will ask my T about this, about patterns. And believe me, if I ever figure any of this out, I'll write it all out here.
Thanks Alex
Posted by Tamar on May 13, 2005, at 12:04:58
In reply to another cycle, posted by Shortelise on May 13, 2005, at 1:17:20
I'm outraged that someone stole your rocking chair! Now that calls for a blues song!It's a horrible feeling when it gets you. And I know about the messy house thing. Somehow that just makes it feel worse. I'd prefer to have a tidy house when I'm staring at the walls, but it's too much effort to clean up.
I'm glad you phoned your T. I suppose he's right when he says it will pass, but it's hard to know why some things can be coped with and others are just so hard to deal with.
I wish I had answers for you, but all I have are hugs and ice cream which I send virtually, through the ether.
Thinking of you.
Tamar
Posted by Shortelise on May 13, 2005, at 12:05:38
In reply to Re: another cycle » Shortelise, posted by Dinah on May 13, 2005, at 7:59:33
Ah, horomones.
I think that's got to be a part of it. There is so much about brain/body chemistry we don't know. There is no doubt we manufacture just the right little devil of a hormone that slots our mood to where we may or may not want it to be. But WHY?
For some of us, it's all about chemistry. For others, events have changed our chemistry, or caused our chemistry to alter.
The bouts of crying with your son - that's familiar! I had the same thing, but not for a few years. Having learned to express the stuff that builds up has helped, and for me, I think it was a way of telling my husband I needed loving attention. Now Ican just say it, and talk to him and others about the things that gnaw.
But before, there would be my brain saying, hey, we gotta make some of those screaming, crying hormones.
Thanks, Dinah. I looked up cyclothymia. What can I say but that there are more people in the world than there are diagnosis in the DSM.
ShortE
Posted by Shortelise on May 13, 2005, at 12:21:45
In reply to Re: another cycle, posted by daisym on May 13, 2005, at 10:35:41
> I think we all have different pieces of ourselves, some larger and some smaller, that cope differently with situations. And I think we work hard to keep our strongest pieces up front, to cope with the hard stuff. But when something triggers the old stuff, the more fragile piece, that comes to the forefront, and down we go.
That's is so true, Daisy, and does me good to read it so clearly explained.
> I think those competent parts are just dismayed that "we" can "still" feel hurt, confused, sad, anxious, or any of the above about what seems to not be an overwhelming situation. So we put pressure on ourselves to handle it, to do better, to not cry over spilled milk. And we insist we can hold it, deal with it ourselves...because after all, haven't we spent years in therapy learning to recognize these distorted responses and know where they are coming from?
>
> I think every time these sad parts get triggered, we mourn all over again. Some of us mourn the fact that we have these parts at all!Now I see that one of the things that is really bothering me is that I don't know what the trigger is here. I mean, my post from a few days ago explains the situation, and it certainly brought back very bad memeories, but why this slide? Why this awful sadness? Yes, it's a failure of the front guard. And I do mourn my inability to roll with this punch. But most of all, I am confused. Why? Where is the depth of this coming from?
I have been trying all week to clean my room. My Room. I have my very own room, with a desk, a sewing machine, my art, all my things, and it's where I sleep because my husband snores unbearably. I love my room. But everything I try to do overwhelms me, except cooking.
Thanks very much, Daisy.
Posted by Shortelise on May 13, 2005, at 12:23:00
In reply to Re: another cycle » Shortelise, posted by Tamar on May 13, 2005, at 12:04:58
Your post brought tears to my eyes, Tamar. Thanks very kindly. ShortE
Posted by pinkeye on May 13, 2005, at 13:49:05
In reply to another cycle, posted by Shortelise on May 13, 2005, at 1:17:20
Hi ShortE,
From what I understood from myself, things happen all the time - bad things and good things. But depending on the state of midn that I am in, I either let the good things occupy my mind or the bad thing occupy my mind.I guess it is just a way your brain chemicals are functioning at that particular point.
One day, I might let a fight with my hsuband go without cribbing about it, the other day, I might make a big hue and cry for even a smaller fight.
I have learnt that to keep my mind and heart in balance, some kind of meditation helps and religious outlook helps. Or if you have a very nice and happy person around, that might help too. The thing is to always have some positive input around you which you can lean on when you have troubles in your life - be it either God or social support or husband or garden or something.
Posted by Shortelise on May 14, 2005, at 0:56:49
In reply to Re: another cycle » Shortelise, posted by pinkeye on May 13, 2005, at 13:49:05
THanks Pinkeye.
SHortE
Posted by daisym on May 14, 2005, at 18:03:22
In reply to Re: another cycle, posted by Shortelise on May 13, 2005, at 12:21:45
>>>>>>Now I see that one of the things that is really bothering me is that I don't know what the trigger is here. I mean, my post from a few days ago explains the situation, and it certainly brought back very bad memeories, but why this slide? Why this awful sadness? Yes, it's a failure of the front guard. And I do mourn my inability to roll with this punch. But most of all, I am confused. Why? Where is the depth of this coming from?
<<<<I've been thinking about what you wrote above on and off. Why? is such a tough question. I want to say it is because you have a soul, and an awareness of your feelings. Is that too trite? But really, I think you've learned not to wall off your feelings or ignore them. So you are more aware of them.I also thought that maybe some of your sadness about termination was mixed in here. You fought with yourself about calling your therapist and this brings home all these feelings about having to bear it alone. Or at least without him.
I question often whether being in touch with my feelings is such a great thing. Especially when I'm low and alone. I guess I change my mind to the answer every day.
I hope today is better for you and this swing down passes quickly.
Hugs from me.
This is the end of the thread.
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