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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Shortelise on December 17, 2004, at 3:17:09
This week I have a gig in my chosen profession. The thing that kicked me into therapy was my inability to cope with the very high anxiety of my job. I work a few times a month for a few days.
It's very high stress work. I quit for a few years, but have slowly gone back to it.
So, working this week, thinking about it, not able to sleep. Think, ok, I'll just get through this stress, just feel it, try to use it to my advantage (at one o'clock in the moorning when I NEED to be sleeping? But the thought counts). THen I thought, but NO, if I can cope with the stress, I don't need my wonderful doc anymore, and I won't be able to see him anymore. VAROOOOM! Up went the anxiety. Then I thought, well, that's idiotic, the whole point of the finking exercise was to learn to cope. After six years, here I am wanting to vomit again. Aieeeee. Up went the anxiety. Is the man on the moon looks anxious, blame me - my anxiety was that high.
Took a nice fat sleeping pill and went to sleep. Called the doc the next day, told him about it. He said, very intelligently, don't worry about not coming here anymore, just deal with the work part. Do what you do at work, and it'll be good enough. You don't have to shine, he said, you just have to be good enough.
It worked liked a charm, and I so far have not fallen back into the anxiety. I just kept saying to myself, I just have to be good enough.
I feel like a finking idiot though. This childishness is pathetic. Why oh why oh why do I feel a need to stay in this place of dependancy? Is it because I feel safe here? I don't understand. And I am embarrassed. I don't mind too much being embarrassed, though.
Argh. Any insights?
Thanks
ShortE
PS The words "fink" and "finking" come from the children's book by Louise Fitzhughes, Harriet the Spy. It remains one of my all time favourite books. I figure if it's good enough for a book for ten year olds, it's good enough for psychobabble.
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 7:07:09
In reply to idiotic, childish behaviour, posted by Shortelise on December 17, 2004, at 3:17:09
I'll do my best impression of my therapist here.
Defining your behavior in such negative terms is probably not all that helpful. There are reasons for what we do and dismissing those reasons rarely makes them go away. Can you think of some valid reasons for how you feel?
Posted by gardenergirl on December 17, 2004, at 9:20:52
In reply to idiotic, childish behaviour, posted by Shortelise on December 17, 2004, at 3:17:09
ShortE,
I think I understand the push/pull to dependency. In my case, it's fulfilling something I didn't get in childhood. I go back and forth between the comfort I get and the desire to be independent. I've seen myself even act a bit passive-aggessively at times when the dependency feels threatened, by my own strive towards independence or by other things. It is embarrassing for someone who considers herself to be otherwise reasonably competent and adult.But it's a necessary part of treatment. I think that initial gains are exciting but also very scary. I suppose its almost like a child who is learning to be securely attached. My guess it the child makes initial steps away from "mom" but then returns when it gets too scary. That's reinforcing, but so was the excited feeling of being independent. So as long as "mom" is always there and present, even if not "needed" at the immediate moment, the child will then continue to branch out and return, until it becomes a well-developed ability to be independent and yet secure in the mother's love.
At any rate, I think that's what's going on with me. Does this sound at all like what's going on with you?
And unless there are external reasons for ending therapy...such as insurance or geography or whatever, my own belief is that it is important to stay with the process even when that branching out gets more and more secure feeling. Becuase it is the presence of the mother figure in the background, supporting and available, which makes independence secure.
You are not idiotic at all. And child-like, rather than childish. How's that?
gg
Posted by Daisym on December 17, 2004, at 10:42:32
In reply to Re: idiotic, childish behaviour » Shortelise, posted by gardenergirl on December 17, 2004, at 9:20:52
I like what Dinah said - I'll add in, "why do you need to put negative labels on those feelings and judge yourself? Whose voice is that?"
And GG said the rest. You are facing your anxiety but still need the safety net. Nothing wrong with that. Not childish but actually very mature to recognize it, call for support and then deal with it. Bravo!
I've had this conversation a number of times with my therapist, about being afraid that I'm not going to let myself get better because I'm so attached to him. He just reassures me that he is going to be there, even when I'm 80 and he is 90, if I still need him. He reminds me that people need each other, we should be working towards interdependence, not striving to be alone with our independence.
...it's hard though, huh?
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 14:38:54
In reply to Re: idiotic, childish behaviour, posted by Daisym on December 17, 2004, at 10:42:32
> I've had this conversation a number of times with my therapist, about being afraid that I'm not going to let myself get better because I'm so attached to him.
Mine solved that by telling me I can come see him as often as I want for as long as I want even if I got all better. Which may sound awful to nontherapygoers, but it does take care of the not getting better problem, so I think it was a positive decision on his part.
> He just reassures me that he is going to be there, even when I'm 80 and he is 90, if I still need him.
LOL. Mine laughs about creaking up to the office in his walker, and being totally senile, and me not noticing the difference. :))
> He reminds me that people need each other, we should be working towards interdependence, not striving to be alone with our independence.
Bravo!!! That's my motto. Unfortunately *I* don't believe it one second. I am a rock, I am an island. Needing anyone else is unsafe. Silly me. Man wasn't made for independence. Man was made for interdependence.
>
> ...it's hard though, huh?You're right there. I spent the entire session today asking my therapist what would happen if he died - over and over and over again.
Something good came out of it though. He decided that having a therapist friend of his call his clients was probably a good idea and he's going to speak to his wife about it. He had never considered the problem before. (Eye roll. Some people just never plan.) I told him to try not to die before me though, and he agreed to try.
Posted by Shortelise on December 18, 2004, at 4:45:08
In reply to idiotic, childish behaviour, posted by Shortelise on December 17, 2004, at 3:17:09
Thank you each for what you have written - so much food for thought. I am so tired - worked 42 of the past 72 hours. My feet are killing me. Need to sleep, then to think. See doc on Monday.
This forum is so valuable to me. So much emotional intelligence, common sense, insight, knowledge and kindness. And more.
Thanks again.
ShortE
Posted by annierose on December 18, 2004, at 7:17:38
In reply to Re: idiotic, childish behaviour, posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 14:38:54
Dinah -
My husband's aunt was a T in NYC and died suddenly a few years ago. I remember feeling so sad for all her clients, the shock of it all. I kept asking my mother-in-law (her sister) questions about the clients, who is calling them, what are they saying, etc. etc. I couldn't go to the funeral, but my husband did. The T's daughter did all the phone calling (unbelievably hard) to the clients. And my husband said a ton of the them came to the funeral and introduced themselves to the family. And even now, people are still trying to call her for appointments (former clients needing to see her again). I just can't imagine and hope I never have to face that situation.
And again, Dinah, you have been in my thoughts and prayers. I am glad your T has been such a source of comfort and strength for you. He does care so much for you.
Posted by Dinah on December 18, 2004, at 21:32:02
In reply to Re: Death of a T » Dinah, posted by annierose on December 18, 2004, at 7:17:38
It's hard for me to understand why they don't plan those things better. It can't be easy for the family to have to make those calls, and they shouldn't have to. In addition to the fact that they aren't equipped to deal with extreme adverse reactions. I'm sure most therapists have therapist friends who could do that.
I think I'd feel funny about going to the funeral. I think I'd feel like it wouldn't be right for someone other than family being that distraught. The lady weeping and wailing at the funeral really ought to be the widow. :(
Oh well. He says he'll try to outlive me. :P
Posted by gardenergirl on December 18, 2004, at 22:18:09
In reply to Re: Death of a T » annierose, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2004, at 21:32:02
>The lady weeping and wailing at the funeral really ought to be the widow. :(
LOL. My mother used to tell me that you could hire people to weep and wail at a funeral. Maybe a niche market for therapy patients? ;)
But really, what an ordeal for all involved.
gg
Posted by annierose on December 19, 2004, at 7:08:13
In reply to Re: Death of a T » annierose, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2004, at 21:32:02
I agree with both of your posts. And I like the thought of hiring people to wail appropriately at the funeral. I visited the daughter of this aunt over the summer and she said they received heart warming letters from clients about her mother. The aunt's office was in a seperate entrance in her NY city appartment (pretty common there). Anyway, the letters were very helpful to her during her grief. But I wonder about the client's grief too.
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