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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 10derHeart on September 25, 2005, at 16:37:37
I can almost never just eat
Part of something
Not a little bit
Not a few
Not some
Not a serving
No "saving some for tomorrow"
Not "just a bite"Nope.
Has to be
A lot
All of it
Finish it
Go back to it
Every bite
Every little bitIt's sickening.
I hate this behavior.
But apparently not enough to change it :-(
The discomfort of
Control, portions, stopping
Is worse than what I'm doing to
Myself, my body, my weight
Apparently.My T. and I both know
I'm trying to fill up some
Bottomless pit of need
Duh. I figured that one out
On my own long ago.So what now?
Too weak to stop or change.
I'm disgusting.
I hate this :-((why does writing about this hurt so much?)
Posted by crazy teresa on September 25, 2005, at 19:13:44
In reply to Never Enough, posted by 10derHeart on September 25, 2005, at 16:37:37
Because it makes it more real and we have to face it full on. And it sucks.
>Too weak to stop or change.
If you were really too weak, you wouldn't even try, but you are! You really ARE!
>I'm disgusting.
NO YOU'RE NOT!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe you should consider the behavior itself in this way, but not YOURSELF!!!!!
For example: Poop in itself is pretty disgusting. Do you consider yourself disgusting because you poop? NO!!!! Just because you poop does not make you disgusting.
Hugs to you from crazy t
Posted by Racer on September 25, 2005, at 20:39:19
In reply to Never Enough, posted by 10derHeart on September 25, 2005, at 16:37:37
I don't know if this would help you, but I've found that choosing to have a reasonable sized portion of a goodie really helps me limit the amount I eat. I know, from an anorexic that sounds beyond sick, but what I mean is that my "anorexic" ice cream bowls were three scoops of ice cream -- the scoop I used was one of those cookie dough scoops, the kind that holds about a tablespoon of dough to make your cookies the same size? It was hard as nails not to go and have another bowl after the first one, as you can imagine. Now, though, when I make my bowl of ice cream, using a normal sized scoop and about one and a half to two scoops, I'm fully satisfied by it.
Same if I make a cake: if I try to have a "tiny sliver" of cake, it's not satisfying, and I find myself heading back for "another tiny sliver" and probably have as much or more than if I had just cut a 'normal' sized piece in the first place.
I think my real point, though, is that if you consider yourself to be disgusting because you're eating 'too much' or anything like that, I'll bet that you're also kinda punishing yourself through this eating. "If I weren't so disgusting, I wouldn't do this. I'm so disgusting that I may as well eat that ice cream, just to prove how disgusting I am." Maybe if you could change that sort of self-flagellation, all this would improve? Maybe saying something like, "I am a caring, considerate person who likes ice cream. Today I would like a bowl of ice cream, so I will have it. I like myself so much that I will give myself what I like." What do you think?
I hope I'm not overstepping the bounds here, by the way. A lot of what I've written is the sort of thing that I do to myself, so all of it may be nothing more than projection.
Oh, another thing to consider: do you think that you're trying to "fill up" because you're actually hungry? I know, that's a crazy idea, but I have been finding that when I try to meet my meal plan, instead of making excuses to restrict, I don't have the same kind of cravings for goodies, and am much more easily satisfied. The key, according to my nutritionist, is not to let myself get too hungry. When I try to do what she has assigned me -- eat about every two and a half to three hours -- I don't have the same cravings for treats, and I don't feel nearly so out of control when I do eat. Just another thought.
I hope something in there helps you. I know how [expletive deleted]-ty I feel when I get into that out of control feeling with food.
And I'm sorry your T hasn't been more helpful with this. I hope you find your answers soon.
Posted by 10derHeart on September 26, 2005, at 0:16:21
In reply to why does writing about this hurt so much? » 10derHeart, posted by crazy teresa on September 25, 2005, at 19:13:44
Thanks, crazy T,
I was pretty embarrassed for posting this, and was afraid to even look back here...
But you made me feel better..and laugh, too.
Disgusting is a harsh word, isn't it? Thanks for "yelling" at me about it. I needed that.
The very word poop just cracks me up for some reason. I get your point....but as as good little messed up people can do...I would argue back...no, I'm not disgusting because I poop...but to continue a fairly gross analogy....if you started pooping all the time...right after you had finished pooping and should be fine...but you just insisted on going back to try to poop more - every day - for no da*n good reason, and you considered pooping a most favorite recreational activity....well, that's sounding pretty disgusting...
I know I have a warped relationship with food. I don't take time to enjoy my meals amy more. I enjoy certain foods, but it's far more about planning, and sitting down with my 'friend' - the food - than it is about nourishment or anything nice and sensible.
But like you said, I am trying - a little. At least I'm still thinking about it as a problem. It's just so hard to see myself as strong when I try many little changes and tricks to cut down the amount of mindless snacking and I relapse after about a day each time :-(
Not giving up. I have to try - my health is at stake, and life at this size is getting more and more uncomfortable. I feel the real "me" is lost in here somewhere....
((crazy t))) hugs back to you - I appreciate you being here...
Posted by ButterflyHigh on September 26, 2005, at 0:29:19
In reply to Never Enough, posted by 10derHeart on September 25, 2005, at 16:37:37
Posted by 10derHeart on September 26, 2005, at 0:40:51
In reply to Re: Never Enough » 10derHeart, posted by Racer on September 25, 2005, at 20:39:19
Hi Racer,
That was a great post - thank you so much.
You made me think - it is possible that *sometimes* (maybe as much as 50%) I could be more easily finshing off things because I am physically hungry. Those days where I don't balance things - am not filled up with fiber, for example, it's possible, without realizing it, I am truly hungry enough to eat a LOT of whatever...because I didn't eat enough at that point - period. I'm been so focused on the obvious emotional eating (and there is PLENTY of that) I may have stopped noticing something a lot simpler to remedy. Thanks! Maybe I'll write it all down for a week or two (although I have major issues with food diaries from prior failed weight control attempts...). If only *I* am looking at them for now, I might could do it...
You haven't overstepped a thing. Like you wrote before...two sides of the same mountain, perhaps?
About the self-talk...it's seems so complicated. It isn't about giving into that feeling of giving up and eating one - or even many - "unhealthy" foods because I'm feeling disgusting...it's more like...autopilot at this point? And all about the portions. Not to brag, but I am SO knowledgeable about food groups and what's good for people, it's ridiculous. I've learned so much I could teach nutrition, I swear.
I'm awkwardly trying to say, I know WHAT to eat, and I generally do - say 80% of the week or more. I have few unhealthy foods in my house. But for the life of me, being able to STOP seems impossible right now. Because I can choose the best stuff in the world, but if I demolish bags/containers, etc., in one night, I'll pile on calories. This is mostly the emotional sensation of needing to feel something good and comforting -right now! Then, to not care if I stop eating whatever it is... I try nice baths and tea and taking a nap, drinking water, reading and calling a friend and blah, blah, blah....but I still want and *will have* some food WITH those other comforting things. <sigh>
About my T. - didn't man to imply he can't help me. He can't yet -because I will NOT allow this topic to be discussed. He knows I want to. He knows I'm trying. He knows the basic issue, from little half-jokes we've both made (he's overweight, too) and single sentences I'll utter. But so far, if he asks one thing, I feel awful and tear up and tell him DON'T ask me that. I can't talk abut it. He backs off - his style is not to push - unless I ask him to - then he will immediately. I hate that, though.
But soon, soon - I will. He probably can help me to understand the extreme need to fill up, which I know is about love and lonliness and so on. But not if I won't speak and just hide behind pillows feeling huge and gross and exposed....
It is hard.
Posting here to awesome people like you helps me not give up.
Posted by Racer on September 26, 2005, at 1:59:14
In reply to Re: Never Enough » Racer, posted by 10derHeart on September 26, 2005, at 0:40:51
If you've read my other posts tonight, you'll know that I'm posting while severely impaired. Suddenly got way too tired to keep my brain working. {shrug} Don't know why it hits me that way.
Thank you for all the nice things you said -- feels awfully good, especially since I'm kinda down on myself just now.
Meanwhile, both my T and my nutritionist recommended a book called "Intuitive Eating" which might help you, too. It's about identifying your triggers, and learning to bypass the triggers in favor of learning to listen to your body and eat when you're hungry. I can't say it's doing great things for me -- YET -- but I have found it helpful. Might be worth checking out?
Also, are you on any medications? Some of them pack on the pounds.
My friend's daughter had bariatric surgery a year or so ago, because she was over 250 pounds at 5'1" -- and after years of taking Paxil, which is the most weight-gaining of all the newer anti-depressants. I find it absolutely inconceivable that any halfway competent doctor would prescribe it to someone with a preexisting weight problem without warning her or doing something to try to counter it. If you're taking any medications, psychotropic or otherwise, it might be worth checking the meds board here to see if it might be adding to your eating.
There are a few drugs that you might want to check into, too, like Topomax which is being used for binging in bulimics. I know a few people who've had great luck with it. {shrug} Just a thought.
I'm sorry my poor brain can't form thoughts just now. I hope there's something useful here anyway.
Posted by 10derHeart on September 27, 2005, at 0:34:36
In reply to Re: Never Enough » 10derHeart, posted by Racer on September 26, 2005, at 1:59:14
I do want to check out that book. There's bound to be things in there that will help. You've mentioned it a few times, so I've been getting pretty curious...and I even have a gift certifiate at Amazon in case I want to own it :-)
It's not the meds. Oh, if only I could point the finger there. But it's not. I take Strattera for ADD, a beta blocker and a diuretic for high blood pressure, and that's it. Other than some fish oil, a multi-vit, and x-tra calcium and magnesium, that is. Been off AD (Prozac) for nearly 2 years now. I managed to lose some weight while on the AD, actually.
My life changed drastically when I retired from the military last year, and I went through other losses that brought on bouts of depression, anxiety - whatever....which coincided exactly with the eat, eat, eat for comfort and "let's never exercise anymore 'cause we s*ck and we just don't care..." attitude. Ridiculously predictable, but I allowed it to happen anyway. A long, unfortunate slide from my at least minimal level of fitness before (had no choice, really)
Need to talk to T. See him Wed. - maybe I will be brave enough to start at least.
Posted by Maxime on October 4, 2005, at 12:24:55
In reply to Never Enough, posted by 10derHeart on September 25, 2005, at 16:37:37
> So what now? YOU KEEP FIGHTING
> Too weak to stop or change. ~~YOU WILL FIND THE STRENGTH ONE DAY~~~
> I'm disgusting. ~~ NO YOU ARE NOT!~~~
> I hate this :-( ~~~I WOULD HOLD YOU AND LET YOU CRY IF YOU WERE HERE IN REAL LIFE.~~~
>
> (why does writing about this hurt so much?)
~~~ BECAUSE SEEING IT WRITTEN MAKES IT EVEN MORE REAL ~~~~I cried when I read your post. I feel your pain. I have a friend who suffered from bulimia from age 11 to age 25. She would purge EVERYTHING she ate so her weight was that of someone with anorexia. I only knew her online but I felt very connect to her. I travelled across the United States from Canada to see her and take care of her because she was so weak. I was so scared that she was going to die. Not only was she emaciated but all the purging had taken its toll. I brought her to the ER several times. Finally she decided to accept treatment. She went to River Oaks treatment center. She stayed there for 9 months. 9 months! She came out healthy - both mentally and physically. We set up an outpatient program for her so she could stay on track. 4 years later she is still on track and finishing her Masters degree in Social Work. She still has slip ups but she has a contract with her T that if it gets bad she will go back into the hospital. So far she hasn't had to.
It can be done. She never had enough either. She is still paying off the cost of her treatment and probably will for a long time. But she is whole again. She is alive and living. She is going on to help other people.
So you may feel too weak to change right now but eventually you will find that strength from somewhere. Hopefully you will have a friend or family member who can help you. My friend had no one. Her family wanted nothing to do with her because it had been going on for so long. But we found each other on the net and I was able to support her online and then in real life. I gave up my job and I don't regret it for one moment. We are connected now forever.
There is hope even if you don't see it. It can be hidden in the oddest of places. It will find you.
Hugs,
Maxime
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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