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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage on August 14, 2011, at 7:52:39
Hey Guys,
im still trying to kick depression and its hard. Nardil showed some promising days, but other days it lets me down again. Im speaking here for zonked, too, i believe since we are in the same boat.
Sorry i post similar things over and over again but i really need some help!
Dont wanna fall into just another deep depression. Right now i have i would say something from moderate depression to dysthymia, fluctuating between the two. Nardil does something for sure. I suspect my dosage was too high and im trying a lower dosage before changing anything else with my med/supp regimen.Just a couple questions..
Can i take a lower dosage of NAC and draw some benefit of it? I cant afford a lot of methylfolate so i wanna boost that.
Do you have any other ideas what might be a good "kick starter" for nardil and against depression in general?
Please dont overwhelm me with security warnings etc. You can die from an overdose of water. Its all a question of dosage and careful titrating.
We dont wanna build the safest car in the world with 12+ airbags and bullet proof glass and steel, no we wanna make it to the damn target line! (sorry for being intense here, im just real fed up with this crap. I pray to god i can feel like i did again sometime. I hope he will take me back and will never again let me go)Thanksin Advance,
Lamdage
Posted by bleauberry on August 14, 2011, at 14:29:56
In reply to Looking for a 'natural' booster for Nardil, posted by Lamdage on August 14, 2011, at 7:52:39
Hmm, what a coincidence. The first thing that came to my mind was the first thing you mentioned. NAC. Whatever kind you get, make sure it is tablets. That way it is easy to break into custom sizes so you can start small. I say that primarily because with maoi, it might be uncharted waters and caution is probably deserved? I honestly don't see any problem, but when it comes to an maoi, I think it comes with the territory that all new things have to be approached with respect. Because we just don't know.
Now, NAC is not going to impact the levels of neurotransmitters directly, so I don't see any problem. What it does is mop of whatever crap is screwing with the receptors, so your neurotransmitters can do what they are supposed to do without fighting against competition.
I was also going to maybe mention rhodiola, but no, that just instinctively feels a bit too risky to me.
Posted by Lamdage on August 14, 2011, at 15:10:25
In reply to Re: Looking for a 'natural' booster for Nardil, posted by bleauberry on August 14, 2011, at 14:29:56
> Hmm, what a coincidence. The first thing that came to my mind was the first thing you mentioned. NAC. Whatever kind you get, make sure it is tablets. That way it is easy to break into custom sizes so you can start small. I say that primarily because with maoi, it might be uncharted waters and caution is probably deserved? I honestly don't see any problem, but when it comes to an maoi, I think it comes with the territory that all new things have to be approached with respect. Because we just don't know.
>
> Now, NAC is not going to impact the levels of neurotransmitters directly, so I don't see any problem. What it does is mop of whatever crap is screwing with the receptors, so your neurotransmitters can do what they are supposed to do without fighting against competition.
>
> I was also going to maybe mention rhodiola, but no, that just instinctively feels a bit too risky to me.Thanks for your post!
Desperate as i am i already ordered the stuff. 100g powder for 40 bucks. Does it have something to do with methylfolate? I mean can i get away with a lower methylfolate dosage when adding ACC? The sh*t is expensive..
Anything else that makes sense and is inexpensive?
Posted by bleauberry on August 14, 2011, at 15:36:21
In reply to Re: Looking for a 'natural' booster for Nardil, posted by Lamdage on August 14, 2011, at 15:10:25
>
> Desperate as i am i already ordered the stuff. 100g powder for 40 bucks.I wouldn't say that is desperate. It just comes with the territory. People want to get better. When doctors can't do it, we do it ourselves. I would call that sad, not desperate.
>Does it have something to do with methylfolate? I mean can i get away with a lower methylfolate dosage when adding ACC? The sh*t is expensive..
No. It is not a vitamin. It is an amino acid. It is a precursor to glutathione, which has remarkable processes in the body and brain. None are directly related to mood, but can benefit mood by removing the biochemical insults impacting mood. Expensive? Well for a blind test yes. If it helps, no.
A common dose on bottles is 600mg per day. Doses cited in clinical studies are double or triple that. I personally think it should be started at 300mg, and increase it by 150mg every week until finding a sweet spot. Overkill can happen, not just with this substance, but any. Since you ordered powder, unless you have a scale I don't know how you will measure it. I guess it could be measured by sight, for example starting with 1/8 or 1/16 teaspoon and increasing in similar sizes?
Anyway, this one is for the long haul so no matter what happens in the early days, just keep the eye on the horizon.
>
> Anything else that makes sense and is inexpensive?
>
>Well, the B vitamins. But not just any Bs. We need a mixture of the common ones but also the bio-available ones that bypass any possible genetic or biochemical flaws. That means the active form of B6, active niacin, active B12. The only manufacturer I am aware of that makes those kind of B's is Thorne Research. They all have a wide mix of all the B's, each in different forms, and various versions where one will for example highlight extra B12 while another highlights extra niacin, and so on. I've seen miracles happen with the right Bs, but not as much as I would like to see.
I'll have to think about this one. What to go with nardil? Hmm. Well, I guess it is safe to assume you have plenty of neurotransmitters....with nardil on board there is no shortage, guaranteed. So the problem is something else. But what? Inflammation? Stealth infection? Toxins? What kind? NAC should do a decent job of making a dent in any of those but I'll have to ponder this topic some more.
Posted by Lamdage on August 16, 2011, at 16:30:51
In reply to Re: Looking for a 'natural' booster for Nardil, posted by bleauberry on August 14, 2011, at 15:36:21
Since you ordered powder, unless you have a scale I don't know how you will measure it. I guess it could be measured by sight, for example starting with 1/8 or 1/16 teaspoon and increasing in similar sizes?
Its real simple: i use my capsule maker and put the whole 100g thing into caps. Then its 100.000 mg divided by the number of caps. equals mg per capsule
>
> Anyway, this one is for the long haul so no matter what happens in the early days, just keep the eye on the horizon.
>
> >
> > Anything else that makes sense and is inexpensive?
> >> I'll have to think about this one. What to go with nardil? Hmm. Well, I guess it is safe to assume you have plenty of neurotransmitters....with nardil on board there is no shortage, guaranteed. So the problem is something else. But what? Inflammation? Stealth infection? Toxins? What kind? NAC should do a decent job of making a dent in any of those but I'll have to ponder this topic some more.
I had a food intolerance test done and all the parameters were close to 0. My doc said this is a hint for excess heavy metal toxins.
By the way. Low dose nardil kicks way more than high dose for me. Didnt sleep at all last night and right now im full of hypnotics, thats why im out for today. gn8 :D
Posted by Lamdage on August 16, 2011, at 23:22:00
In reply to Re: Looking for a 'natural' booster for Nardil, posted by bleauberry on August 14, 2011, at 15:36:21
Ok after 3 1/2 hours of sleep (need to change my rythm, work will start tomorrow at 5am) i got time to thoroughly answer
> A common dose on bottles is 600mg per day. Doses cited in clinical studies are double or triple that. I personally think it should be started at 300mg, and increase it by 150mg every week until finding a sweet spot. Overkill can happen, not just with this substance, but any. Since you ordered powder, unless you have a scale I don't know how you will measure it. I guess it could be measured by sight, for example starting with 1/8 or 1/16 teaspoon and increasing in similar sizes?
So whats a good dosage to aim for roughly? 800-1500mg type thing?
> Anyway, this one is for the long haul so no matter what happens in the early days, just keep the eye on the horizon.
I will try. Really need to work on my patience.
>
> Well, the B vitamins. But not just any Bs. We need a mixture of the common ones but also the bio-available ones that bypass any possible genetic or biochemical flaws. That means the active form of B6, active niacin, active B12. The only manufacturer I am aware of that makes those kind of B's is Thorne Research. They all have a wide mix of all the B's, each in different forms, and various versions where one will for example highlight extra B12 while another highlights extra niacin, and so on. I've seen miracles happen with the right Bs, but not as much as I would like to see.Thorne Research.. im guessing you mean basic b-complex? It would be available to my country and i agree it sounds very good. (just checked it out)
>you have plenty of neurotransmitters....with nardil on board there is no shortage, guaranteed. So the problem is something else. But what? Inflammation? Stealth infection? Toxins? What kind? NAC should do a decent job of making a dent in any of those but I'll have to ponder this topic some more.
>I agree on nardil. Id love to visit a doc who can search for all these possible problems. Like i said a doc in the us told me i might want to do mercury detox. But at the time i was not stable enough for the provocation test.
I think whats key now for me is not to do any major changes in my med/supplement regimen. Need a calm hand, improvements of whats there already and only slight changes. Smooth sailing hereafter, at least for a while.
But of course, searching for underlying problems is never wrong, so i wanna do that.
Peace
Ld
Posted by Lamdage on August 16, 2011, at 23:25:41
In reply to Re: Looking for a 'natural' booster for Nardil, posted by Lamdage on August 16, 2011, at 23:22:00
Posted by sigismund on August 17, 2011, at 0:29:34
In reply to Re: Looking for a 'natural' booster for Nardil, posted by Lamdage on August 16, 2011, at 16:30:51
>. Low dose nardil kicks way more than high dose for me.
Very interesting.
What is low dose for you?
Posted by Lamdage on August 17, 2011, at 14:24:35
In reply to Re: Looking for a 'natural' booster for Nardil, posted by sigismund on August 17, 2011, at 0:29:34
> >. Low dose nardil kicks way more than high dose for me.
>
> Very interesting.
>
> What is low dose for you?
Well i will correct myself, lower dose than before.. I went from 105 mg to 90 mg and felt better. Went back to 105, felt sh*tty. Now im on 75 doing ok.Btw Is weight gain a dose dependent side effect? Cuz i dont remember having gained so much weight last time i took it. I went manicky on 45mg lol.
Maybe i should go back to that and see whats up. I had no problems to climax and i had no weight gain issues and i had strong euphoria.. well i wouldnt call it just euphoria, it was sort of a feeling like being back in moms womb, floating, feeling lightweight and CLEAN inside. It was kinda like nardil turned me from a panicky john into a buddist monk type of thing.
It was a profoundly spiritual experience.
Posted by Lamdage on August 17, 2011, at 14:51:04
In reply to Re: Sigi, btw is weight gain dose dependent?, posted by Lamdage on August 17, 2011, at 14:24:35
you can think im a nutcase but that one day i reached a mental state that one day that is best described as something like nirvana. It faded towards the evening but i still felt very much awesome. Did this with the help of my therapist and INTENSE introspection for weeks, essentially all the time i was on nardil. Well i dont know if i did this or nardil or whatever else did, but i know it happened.
It is unbelievable how much joy and bliss one can experience. Albeit many if not most people live in complete denial, its not even dawning on them that something is way off.
Yeah so basically this is my measuring point, even though its not always helpful. I want this back so badly
Posted by sigismund on August 19, 2011, at 13:53:32
In reply to Re: Sigi, btw is weight gain dose dependent?, posted by Lamdage on August 17, 2011, at 14:24:35
>. I had no problems to climax and i had no weight gain issues and i had strong euphoria.. well i wouldnt call it just euphoria, it was sort of a feeling like being back in moms womb, floating, feeling lightweight and CLEAN inside. It was kinda like nardil turned me from a panicky john into a buddist monk type of thing.
It was a profoundly spiritual experience.Oh my goodness. That sounds excellent.
It is said of Nardil that it helps most people but most of them give it up because of the side effects. Therefore I wondered how low you could go and still get some benefit.
I imagine weight gain is dose dependent, but really don't know. Scott or Jedi would have the most experience.
Posted by Lamdage on August 21, 2011, at 9:53:16
In reply to Re: Looking for a 'natural' booster for Nardil, posted by bleauberry on August 14, 2011, at 15:36:21
> I'll have to think about this one. What to go with nardil? Hmm. Well, I guess it is safe to assume you have plenty of neurotransmitters....with nardil on board there is no shortage, guaranteed. So the problem is something else. But what? Inflammation? Stealth infection? Toxins? What kind? NAC should do a decent job of making a dent in any of those but I'll have to ponder this topic some more.
Ok first of all sorry for the bragging.. its just kinda tough cuz i got to get used to not flipping into "a better world" all the time. You can only awake from denial once.. Especially if its that thoroughly. Of course not to be said in the long term i can reveal even more about my history and rid myself of the long term effects.. but this massive epiphany is a very rare thing and i better get used to not having this kind of experiences anymore. If it happens, wich i secretly pray for, thats good but i need to be able to be content if it doesn't.
Anyway back to the topic:Inflammation: I am and especially have been prone to inflammation a lot. Talking about chronic strain inflammation. Tennis-Elbow. Epicondolytis. Impingement syndrome of the shoulder. I did a lot of sports and lifting and some mistakes therein but i am definitely more prone to chronic inflammation stuff than others.
Stealth Infection: I got the eppstein-barr virus. Other than that nothing known. I think there is nothing else.
Toxins: Not sure about that.. Think its unlikely except for heavy metals. Will talk to a doc though.
I found 3 doctors within reach of my monthly bus ticket who are in a organization called something like "Society of doctors for clinical metal-toxicology".
That homepage spit these 3 names out. Sounds like they are people with some real expertise with heavy metal issues. Ill see what they say. Maybe i even find a good general practitioner with whom i can work together in midterm future.I got some memantine lying around, too. Thinkin about going low dose just for the heck of it. I know I'm all over the place with what I'm doing and taking but I'm going to figure out what works.
PeaceLd
Posted by Lamdage on August 23, 2011, at 15:57:01
In reply to Re: Sigi, btw is weight gain dose dependent? » Lamdage, posted by sigismund on August 19, 2011, at 13:53:32
> >. I had no problems to climax and i had no weight gain issues and i had strong euphoria.. well i wouldnt call it just euphoria, it was sort of a feeling like being back in moms womb, floating, feeling lightweight and CLEAN inside. It was kinda like nardil turned me from a panicky john into a buddist monk type of thing.
> It was a profoundly spiritual experience.
>
> Oh my goodness. That sounds excellent.You know it! Would be nice to get some of that "like a bird, cleansed and joyful" back but even in this moment Nardil is still the best med I've ever taken.
> It is said of Nardil that it helps most people but most of them give it up because of the side effects. Therefore I wondered how low you could go and still get some benefit.
>
> I imagine weight gain is dose dependent, but really don't know. Scott or Jedi would have the most experience.Yeah I'm going to try to go lower to see whats up. I can only make guesses about whats doing what as i take quite a bit of stuff, but thats fine with me. Good ol shotgun approach.
Ups and downs for sure but the tendency is remission i think, some nice moments in there today.
Lets get well NOW!Ld
Posted by torrid on September 29, 2011, at 19:27:39
In reply to Looking for a 'natural' booster for Nardil, posted by Lamdage on August 14, 2011, at 7:52:39
I take Jarrow sustain NAC and swanson NAC, I'd rather just take Jarrow but it's pricey and I'm shooting for 1g twice a day. I wasn't sure the NAC was working until I ran out and within days depression was creapping back.
Posted by former poster on October 23, 2011, at 19:28:35
In reply to Re: Sigi, btw is weight gain dose dependent?, posted by Lamdage on August 17, 2011, at 14:24:35
>>well i wouldnt call it just euphoria, it was sort of a feeling like being back in moms womb, floating, feeling lightweight and CLEAN inside.<<
I had the same experience while on Nardil and Xanax. I thought maybe I had accidentally taken an extra pill. It was very similar to how you described.
I used to take Sam-e and Nardil. Took it for quite some time. I stopped the Sam-e when I read about the danger of the combo. My mood really crashed at that point.
This is the end of the thread.
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