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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cydnie on November 2, 2010, at 8:42:42
I stopped taking pristiq last Monday (it wasn't working for my depression) and am glad to be off, but am still so depressed and today feel worse than usual. I have a bunch of supplements that I would love any input on to boost my mood because I am so depressed, and have to take care of my baby and today is my long day without help. I usually take adderall, but felt I wanted a holiday from that and wanted to try my supplements to feel healthier. I have been taking a blend of 20 free form amino acids, take omega 3, dha, and deplin (methly folate). What I can in my cabinet: dlpa, gaba, gingko, holy basil, green tea extract, l-theanine, 5-htp. I had originally wanted to do this naturally, but decided I needed to go faster so went to my doc. Anyway, since I'm off my pristiq, I can take these, and would love any suggestion on something that may work fast, give me energy, a quick lift out of this (I hope without having to resort to my meds today, but if I have to, I will) but would love anyone's gentle input. I feel even more sensitive than usual today, down, introverted, and exhausted from life. I read about trying a nutmeg tea, but all I have is my old nutmeg in my spice drawer, doubt that will help. Any ideas are welcome. Thank you!
Posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 12:00:05
In reply to Need help today if anyone can help, posted by Cydnie on November 2, 2010, at 8:42:42
>What I can in my cabinet: dlpa, gaba, gingko, holy basil, green tea extract, l-theanine, 5-htp.
I think all of these are worth a shot, even at the same time if you are really feeling bad. I'm not crazy about 5-htp, but that's only because I'm very sensitive to it. If you are not, I think it can be great in the short run. I read that it's not as effective in the long run. I also read that it could possibly cause liver problems and even aggravate asthma, mainly with long term use. But, if you really need it and haven't figured out a more long term solution yet, I say go for it.
The green tea extract I would take on a regular basis just for health maintanence.
Just curious, how have you responded to holy basil? Or have you not tried it yet?
What about Rhodiola? Have you tried it? If you do, go with GAIA, New Chapter, or Mind Body and Spirit.
A few more you might want to think about:
St. John's Wort-a superior brand-Kira, Perika, New Chapter's SC27 or Serofin
Turmeric/Curcumin-Lonvida and Meriva may be best
Aswhagandha-A brand using Sensoril, or, Himalaya or Avesta
Magnesium-glycinate, malat, citrate, aspartate, or taurinate-magnesium is believed to positively impact the serotonergic systemSorry your feeling crappy. I wish you good luck in your pursuit to be off pharmaceutical antidepressants.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 12:01:43
In reply to Re: Need help today if anyone can help, posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 12:00:05
>Turmeric/Curcumin-Lonvida and Meriva may be best
OOps, I meant Longvida.
I bet you were aware of most of my suggestions. Just thought I'd throw them out there.
Posted by Cydnie on November 2, 2010, at 12:34:36
In reply to Re: Need help today if anyone can help, posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 12:00:05
Thank you so much - these are a lot of things I hadn't heard of before! Like Longvida, meriva, and actually any of the things after ashwaganda! I wish I had these things here today, but I have my baby and my husband has the car, so I will have to make do with what I have for today (I do have the l-theanine, and green tea, and holy basil which I did try last night and didn't see any effect at all - how long do you need to take it?) I will take the green tea for health, and I also have rhodiola (also saw no effect from that, but am going to try it again today!) Thank you so so much, I've been just a desperate crying mess, and hate my baby to see that! I did take 100 mg of 5-htp last night and for about the last week (haven't seen any effect as far as I know). When you say sensitive to it, do you mean your stomach? Or asthma? I know I've been nauseous. I've heard great things about ashwaganda too! Do any of these things help quickly? Oh, thank you so so much, Morgan, for writing back to me. I can hear my baby crying, sounds like nap time's over. Thank you again, I'll check back here later when I can! Best, Cydnie
Posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 13:49:23
In reply to Re: Need help today if anyone can help » morgan miller, posted by Cydnie on November 2, 2010, at 12:34:36
No problem Cydnie,
The curcumin may take some time to positively impact mood, but as with anything, it could act immediately. One thing to watch out for with curcumin is combining it with other serotonergic agents. You may be perfectly fine with combining curcumin with other things that impact serotonin, you never know until you try. I've taken turmeric/curcumin extracts with SSRIs and felt fine.
I would just take everything in your current arsenal right now, at least the things you know you respond positively to.
Are you thinking about taking another antidepressant?
Have you ever tried a superior SJW extract?
I'm wondering if a capsule or two of lithium orotate would help right now(the best may be Vitamin Research Products). Hmm...
Hang in there!
Morgan
Posted by Cydnie on November 2, 2010, at 18:29:05
In reply to Re: Need help today if anyone can help, posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 13:49:23
Morgan, do you think lithium orotate would help really fast if I went out and bought some tonight? Or do you think ashwagandha might help faster? I tried just about everything I had in my cabinet and still feel desperately depressed and ready to drive to the nearest vitamin store for the things you suggested, which ever might work faster. I am so depressed, I am considering going back to antidepressants, though I know they take time too. I just feel so awful tonight. Thanks again, Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 20:45:53
In reply to Re: Need help today if anyone can help » morgan miller, posted by Cydnie on November 2, 2010, at 18:29:05
Hmm, lithium orotate may have an immediate mood stabilizing effect that could numb you from feeling some of your depression. It's worth a try, and cheap too.
You tried everything you have? Nothing is helping much at all, huh. That sucks.
I can't think of anything other than 5htp that will have a profound immediate effect on depression. I wish there was a powerful natural opiate you could get your hands on, that would definitely help.
Is your anxiety bad as well? If you took things to treat anxiety would that help your depression symptoms some?
Ashwagandha is probably better for anxiety than depression. It's still worth trying as it does calm the mind and help you cope with stress better.
I think lithium orotate would be the most powerful stabilizing agent you could get your hands on. I'm not sure if your local vitamin store would carry it though. There is a possibility it could depress you further. You won't know until you try it of course.
Why did you stop taking effexor? It was effexor wasn't it?
What other antidepressants have you tried?
Posted by Cydnie on November 3, 2010, at 16:13:10
In reply to Re: Need help today if anyone can help, posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 20:45:53
Morgan, thank you so much for your thoughtful responses! My husband actually went out last night late and found a place open with both ashwagandha and curcurmin, so I took both. I have been very depressed all day, but something you wrote struck me - "I wish there was a powerful natural opiate you could get your hands on, that would definitely help." I had been trying vitex for a very long time just for that reason, but I also have a very strong percocet because I am a chronic pain sufferer. I had been trying to go without it for a few days (just had decided to go natural for a few days) but have just decided if I am this low, and am in pain as well, maybe you are right that that would definitely help. It's written to take as needed for pain which I am almost constantly in, so I am not overdoing it, and maybe it really will help my mood. It couldn't hurt, could only help at the very least get rid of this pain I've been trying to live with. It may seem silly to have tried to live with it to some people, but sometimes I just want to be natural, not take another ssri, find a wonderful all natural powerful opiate that would take away my pain! Oh! But it is beginning to look clearer and clearer to me, if you need medication, you need medication. Maybe for now it will take away both of my pains. I just can't feel this depressed anymore and do the things I need to (take care of my baby, get out of bed and get dressed, let alone socialize!) I wish I could go back to just a little anxiety instead of this post partum depression, or whatever it is. I feel so alone and desperate. Thank you ssoooo much for your caring and thoughtful responses. Best to you!
Posted by morgan miller on November 3, 2010, at 16:54:29
In reply to Re: Need help today if anyone can help » morgan miller, posted by Cydnie on November 3, 2010, at 16:13:10
No problem Cydnie, sorry you are feeling so bad.
If you up the dose of curcumin, and continue taking it, in time it may help both your chronic pain and mood. Check out Longvida and Meriva online, they may be the best curcumin supplements out there. If you get back on a serotonergic drug, just watch the effects of curcumin, you may have to lower the dosage, maybe not.
So I guess 5htp isn't helping much. Same goes for DLPA huh.
What SSRIs have you been on?
Have you ever tried a superior st. john's wort brand?
I can't remember, did you say you do take fish oil? High doses of EPA in fish oil can act as a powerful anti-inflammatory. I don't know if your pain is related to inflammation or not.
Hang in there. You may have to get back on an antidepressant that works well with minimal or no side effects. I'm sure there is one out there for you. Just remember, depression can do way more damage that some of these antidepressants can ever do.
Morgan
Posted by Cydnie on November 5, 2010, at 12:38:25
In reply to Re: Need help today if anyone can help, posted by morgan miller on November 3, 2010, at 16:54:29
Just wanted to post back. I do take an EPA-DHA it says 2:1 ratio (400 mg EPA to 200 mg DHA) and it says take 1 or 2, so I usually just take 1. I also take vitamin d 1000mg, a multivitamin (it's a prenatal from when I was breastfeeding), evening primrose oil, and magnesium citrate. For SSRIs, I've taken celexa, lexapro, oh I can't remember all of them, but I think the only one I haven't is prozac! I've done pristiq and wellbutrin. The best effect I've had from any meds with the least side effects and most benefits has been from adderall. It really pulled me out of my hole for quite awhile. I think you are right though that at this time, depression can do worse than an antidepressant. I'm interested in emsam for so few side effects, and my doc wants lamictal, but I dread the side effects, I'm a chronic migraine sufferer. Anyway, it's almost the weekend & the doc didn't call back, so I am going without anything new. I'm sticking with the ashwagandha and the curcumin and will up the dose on that and see how I do! Thanks so much for asking! Best to you!
Posted by morgan miller on November 5, 2010, at 20:19:32
In reply to Re: Need help today if anyone can help » morgan miller, posted by Cydnie on November 5, 2010, at 12:38:25
Hey Cydnie, you might want to double or even triple your fish oil dose, depending on how concentrated the pills are.
Did you take the percocet? Did it give you relief?
I would stay away from Lamictal, it has much more potential to cause short term and long term issue than SSRIs do, IMEO. Hopefully you and your doctor come up with something better than Lamictal soon. I'm think Cymbalta, Zoloft + Nortriptyline if your doctor goes for it, or one the antidepressants you've been on before that worked well.
How was lexapro? Do you remember what Zoloft was like?
Hope your doing a little better!
Morgan
Posted by Cydnie on November 6, 2010, at 17:22:36
In reply to Re: Need help today if anyone can help, posted by morgan miller on November 5, 2010, at 20:19:32
Morgan,
I do get some relief from percocet, just don't want to take too many, but for times like today (had a rough time after seeing my extremely judgmental father in law, always end up feeling so much worse about myself after his comments) when I am feeling hopeless, I feel it's necessary (for both the phsyical and mental). I talked to my doc and he was adamant about not giving me an MAOI emsam patch, but instead insisted on lamictal which I had so many reservations about. That's all he offered, and then left for vacation. So I am very on my own, and was looking online for some other suggestions and another site talked about something I haven't tried called kratom, but I can't quite figure out what it is, but everyone was saying it has rapid antidepressant effects. I am also trying extra EPA & DHA, coq10, and threw in some extra zinc today. But I need something more because I feel like a small push from another hurtful person like my father in law could push me over the edge, beyond the edge of reason (I never hurt anyone else, just myself). I'm so desperate, so alone, and have no clue what to do. I did read that lithium and TCAs have a rapid antidepressant effect, and still have a little nortriptylene, and thought about what you suggested, lithium orotate. Maybe that or kratom, if I can find out more about that. Anything to keep me from going over that edge. Just feels like it's getting a little worse every day, and I'm so scared.
Posted by morgan miller on November 6, 2010, at 22:27:18
In reply to Re: Need help today if anyone can help » morgan miller, posted by Cydnie on November 6, 2010, at 17:22:36
So you've tried Nortriptyline? I'm sure you've read here that an SSRI(especially Zoloft) plus Nortriptyline, can be a very effective treatment for depression.
You might want to get a hold of some lithium orotate. If it helps some, you could use it until you get stabilized on something else.
Why did you stop taking Effexor? Just curious.
Sorry about your father in law. I know it's hard but try to have a thick skin and tell yourself that he is the one with the problem not you.
Hang in there,
Morgan
Posted by Lao Tzu on November 12, 2010, at 10:01:30
In reply to Need help today if anyone can help, posted by Cydnie on November 2, 2010, at 8:42:42
Some supplements that have helped me for a few years now are the following:
vitamins C and E, B1, B2, B6, B12, selenium, zinc (for some people), calcium and magnesium, fish and borage oils. I recommend taking calcium and magnesium at bedtime to help with sleep, and this may help with anxiety and depression the following day. Try a 1:1 ratio of Calcium citrate with magnesium Citrate. Both of these are effective. I wouldn't say you would experience a dramatic increase in energy, but it will help to take these vitamins. These are the dosages I take:
Vitamin C--500mg per day
Vitamin E--200IU in the morning and 400IU at bedtime
Vitamin B1---100mg in the morning and bedtime
Vitamin B2---50mg at bedtime
Vitamin B6---100mg per day
Vitamin B12---375mcg per day. This is variable for each person. Initially, I took 750mcg for a few months until my B12 status was normal. After that, you may find that you don't need so much. B12 shots from your doctor are also good.Selenium---50mcg during the day and 50mcg at bedtime
Zinc---Variable. Try zinc picolinate form. Works very well.
Calcium Citrate/Magnesium Citrate---500mg of each at bedtime
Fish oil---1,000mg or more per day
Borage Oil---1,300mg per day. Initially, may require more until reach a steady state, then you may find that you only need one capsule per day. I like to take my fish oil, wait 20 minutes, then take the borage oil. It seems strange, but I find that this method works the best as far as absorption.Also, DL-Phenylalanine (Thorne Research Brand) may also help with depression and give you a boost. Some people prefer Tyrosine over DLPA. Experiment to see which one you might like better. Definitely, 5htp would be good for increasing serotonin, but I've heard that taking 5htp alone would deplete other neurotransmitters (????), so it is recommended to take both 5htp along with tyrosine or DLPA.
Lao
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