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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 44 to 68 of 68. Go back in thread:
Posted by barbaracat on December 17, 2004, at 17:48:56
In reply to Re: Li Or. and Light Boxes » barbaracat, posted by katia on December 17, 2004, at 15:21:24
> Thanks Barbara for your kind words...however, I just hide it well. Even the lady at Macy's couldn't believe that nothing was fitting. It's too long in the legs, too big in the waist and too tight in the, um, bottom area. I have a disfigurment!
**A disfigurement! Nobody listen to her! You are so full of ka-ka!!! (Hmmm, maybe that's your bum problem....). Seriously though, ha ha, those 'tummy slimming' panties work wonders ('bummy slimming'?).
**Here's what I would do. I would NOT phase off Paxil too quickly until you definitely feel a lift from the SJW. It may not work for you and you don't want to be without. The only reason I was meandering back there about one brand over another and dosages was like thinking out loud. I definitely felt at my best after a very long hard spell when I was doing 2 HBC Protocols and 2 Floras a day. This might be because I had been in such a dark place that I just needed the extra SJW in the form of the Flora which I eventually ran out of. It might also be because I had both on hand and wanted to use up both. I only know that one day I woke up and saw light shining around life again.
If SJW is going to work for you, as a bipolar you can't do any better than the HBC Protocols, especially because it's smooth and even, compared with all the other pharmaceutical grade brands, PLUS it contains a higher dosage of both active constituents, where most contain only one constituent (hyperforin or hypericin) or the other. It's also waaaaayyyy cheaper than any other brand. It's the cadillac, in my opinion of pharmaceutical SJW.
I heard my husband praising it's virtues to a friend the other day. He did OK on zoloft for a while then it pooped. He's had nothing but good to say for SJW. He is not bipolar but he is dysthymic and probably has SAD and he could be the SJW poster-child, although I'd be more assured if he were also BP).
The only unknown is whether there's something else going on that hasn't been isolated, that's in the whole plant, such as the Flora brand, that acts just a wee bit more effectively as I found after my long dark haul last winter. So, I was just then (and now) meandering, trying to pry it out how I could experiment on myself, but keep you aware of the various forms the different effects SJW can take. It's so unlike a standardized capsule and it just takes experimentation.
No, I haven't called her. I will, I definitely will. If you get a chance to talk to her and mentioned me, let her know it will happen. This time of year is just so crazy. No excuse, but at least an explanation. - Luv, B.
>
> Wow! you really do need test tubes! I'm just hoping that the stuff I ordered (from your recommendation) works and I can phase out of the Paxil. I have constant nausea and dizziness. I"m not sure what it is from. Maybe the light box, maybe the paxil...it really sucks and wears me out quickly.
>
> Have you contacted that referral yet? :-)
> take care love,
> Katia
Posted by doug9732 on April 19, 2005, at 22:42:42
In reply to Re: anyone tried lithium orotate?, posted by bruce_w6 on April 17, 2004, at 14:53:08
I've been taking one Advanced Research 120mg tablet a day since last August, and after two weeks my 50+ year old obsessional anxiety problem had noticeably improved. I have a high body weight, so it's impressive to get noticeable results on one tablet a day. I also take tri-methyl-glycine ( TMG ) for depression; it's an s-adenosyl-methionine precursor, and my experience indicates it is better than all of the alternatives, and also excellent for general health!
Posted by KaraS on April 25, 2005, at 15:04:01
In reply to Re: anyone tried lithium orotate?, posted by doug9732 on April 19, 2005, at 22:42:42
> I've been taking one Advanced Research 120mg tablet a day since last August, and after two weeks my 50+ year old obsessional anxiety problem had noticeably improved. I have a high body weight, so it's impressive to get noticeable results on one tablet a day. I also take tri-methyl-glycine ( TMG ) for depression; it's an s-adenosyl-methionine precursor, and my experience indicates it is better than all of the alternatives, and also excellent for general health!
There have been various threads on this in the past. Some have found it very helpful, others didn't. "LOOPS" takes it so if you do a search, you might want to include her posting name.
Posted by katia on May 5, 2005, at 14:44:56
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate » Barbaracat, posted by Rob25 on December 16, 2004, at 22:40:05
Anyone tried this? Results?
Posted by katia on May 19, 2005, at 15:52:17
In reply to Re: anyone tried lithium orotate?, posted by stebu on March 8, 2004, at 21:52:06
Hi,
Are you still on Li. Orotate? How much? And how much Trileptal? I'm on 450 of Tril. and 12.5 Seroquel and st. jOhn's Wort. However, I feel a depression creeping in. I just ordered Li. Orotate (nasal spray) and am wanting to take it for the depression and along with that reduce my Trileptal to 300mg a day.How has it helped with depression?
Thanks-
Katia> I've been on Lithium Orotate since I wrote in Sept/93. My depression has not come back. I've been able to titrate off my effexor. This is the time of year when I become hypomanic. As I began to speed up my pdoc increased my Lithium orotate, and I responded right away. I do have a tiny blood level of lithium, and continue to take a small dose of trileptal. I don't have any side effects from Lithium Orotate. I think it's great.
Posted by katia on May 20, 2005, at 15:12:24
In reply to Re: anyone tried lithium orotate? » stebu, posted by katia on May 19, 2005, at 15:52:17
Anyone ever experience this?
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 9:11:29
In reply to Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate?, posted by katia on May 20, 2005, at 15:12:24
> Anyone ever experience this?
That's an acknowledged side effect of lithium itself. Try a lower dose.
Lar
Posted by katia on May 21, 2005, at 12:38:34
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate? » katia, posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 9:11:29
> > Anyone ever experience this?
>
> That's an acknowledged side effect of lithium itself. Try a lower dose.
>
> LarYes, I realize that. But I thought that the advantages of Li. Orotate were to eliminate that side effect. I got it terribly on Li. Carb and was hoping that it wouldn't be the same. That was more my question....
I can't take a lower dose because I'm doing the nasal spray and only doing one squirt. I started two days ago and am finishing my last quarter in grad school and have lots of reading. It took me all day to read only 30 pages!! I have to finish the entire book of 200 pages by next week. I don't have time to be slow and stupid.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 13:57:30
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate?, posted by katia on May 21, 2005, at 12:38:34
> I can't take a lower dose because I'm doing the nasal spray and only doing one squirt. I started two days ago and am finishing my last quarter in grad school and have lots of reading. It took me all day to read only 30 pages!! I have to finish the entire book of 200 pages by next week. I don't have time to be slow and stupid.
I had never heard of nasal lithium orotate.....the website says one spray provides about 3 mg of lithium orotate (4 sprays is 14 mg). http://www.lithiumorotate.com/dosage.html
That is a trivial amount of lithium, really. I have no idea just how the pharmacokinetics change with nasal delivery, but that is not much to think about. The tablets of lithium orotate that I have supply 120 mg.
Maybe it's the GABA? The thing is, if the spray isn't helping, then it's no good for you.
Lar
Posted by katia on May 21, 2005, at 14:13:54
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate? » katia, posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 13:57:30
Hi,
That's exactly what I have the HBC one. I'm really sensitive though to EVERYTHING so I didn't take it today and I feel a lift. However two days of it....I'm not sure. It could be the mild depression I feel. But I feel a lift today, so who knows! I'll monitor from here. I also went from 450 mg of Trileptal to 300mg two days ago as well. Maybe that's helping with a fog/mild depression. I'll do one thing at a time. I'll give this reduction a few days and then add the Li. again and see what happens (only if my mood doesn't remain lifted). My main thing is depression so being on just a mood stablizer seems silly...but I also took some opium last night (hehe....ok, not opium but just 1/2 of a vicodin for a terrible headache). That definitely mellows one out nicely.
thanks for your comments.
Katia
Posted by barbaracat on May 21, 2005, at 14:43:04
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate? » Larry Hoover, posted by katia on May 21, 2005, at 14:13:54
Vicodin, or hydrocodone, is enough to lift me out of a terrible mood. I wish doctors's would consider it as first line mood therapy. I have never gotten addicted to it. I use it for fibromyalgia pain, but it has the nice secondary quality of removing my depression, sometimes for good because I end up having a terrific time on it.
I hope you keep up that Li Orotate nasal a while longer to see, for the rest of us, if it's really doing anything. Cheers and hope you're feeling better, Ms. Kitty. - Barbara
> That's exactly what I have the HBC one. I'm really sensitive though to EVERYTHING so I didn't take it today and I feel a lift. However two days of it....I'm not sure. It could be the mild depression I feel. But I feel a lift today, so who knows! I'll monitor from here. I also went from 450 mg of Trileptal to 300mg two days ago as well. Maybe that's helping with a fog/mild depression. I'll do one thing at a time. I'll give this reduction a few days and then add the Li. again and see what happens (only if my mood doesn't remain lifted). My main thing is depression so being on just a mood stablizer seems silly...but I also took some opium last night (hehe....ok, not opium but just 1/2 of a vicodin for a terrible headache). That definitely mellows one out nicely.
> thanks for your comments.
> Katia
Posted by katia on May 21, 2005, at 15:05:27
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate? » katia, posted by barbaracat on May 21, 2005, at 14:43:04
Thanks Ms. BarbaraCat,
I will retry it in a couple of days. I want to do one thing at a time.
I'm still eyeing that cymbalta too.
Is it as terrible with the w/drawals as Effexor, do you know? That's what I'm FRIGHTENED of.
Posted by barbaracat on May 21, 2005, at 15:43:18
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate? » barbaracat, posted by katia on May 21, 2005, at 15:05:27
I forgot to take Cymbalta a couple days and if anything I felt better. As long as I don't drink, the day starts out pretty good, and that's when I notice the effects of Cym best - the morning after.
Supposedly, because it has a 12 hours half life it's been said to be rough, with some people feeling withdrawal the same day. I never had that experience. But maybe because my dose is so low.
I'm up to 60 pellets now, hoping to wipe away some depression that snuck up on me around my brother/me issues and bringing up grief for my Mom that just isn't healing. I think I need some therapy. I'm feeling alot of sadness lately. It's all appropriate sadness, of course, but I'd also like to experience a little happiness too cause I have a lot to get done and depression is soooo counterproductive. Love, B.
> Thanks Ms. BarbaraCat,
> I will retry it in a couple of days. I want to do one thing at a time.
> I'm still eyeing that cymbalta too.
> Is it as terrible with the w/drawals as Effexor, do you know? That's what I'm FRIGHTENED of.
>
Posted by Trendy Wendy on July 7, 2005, at 20:26:41
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate? » katia, posted by barbaracat on May 21, 2005, at 15:43:18
Just HAD to chime in here - have found all info in previous posts of high interest. I have recently come to accept my diagnosis of bi-polar (accepted long ago that I have borderline personality disorder and a couple other problems). We have yet to find anything that truly relieves my depression and luckily I only suffer from hypomania, but that's enough. I, too, tried lithium orotate and while I didn't experience a dramatic parting of the clouds, I sure as hell had a plunge in mood when I went OFF (3 different times), so I guess it was doing something. I have continued until this week when my latest psychiatrist Rx'd lithium carbonate and I'm switching over; we'll see what happens. I'm also titrating on Lamictal, so who knows...
Posted by Arabela on September 24, 2005, at 3:19:44
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate? » katia, posted by barbaracat on May 21, 2005, at 15:43:18
After my son commited siucide almost 2 years ago,I started having depression problems.I only slept and went to my one job,I lost the other.Did not want to go on prescription drugs and so I started Li orotate 2 weeks ago.I sleep better,I funcion better.I have more energy.I also was taking 5HTP before for extended period of time for my migraines,those are gone now too.I feel more "normal" now compare to just few days ago.I wonder if I could take the 5HTP w/Li orotate.Could it work together even better?
Posted by LOOPS on September 24, 2005, at 8:47:24
In reply to nubby here on Li Orotate, posted by Arabela on September 24, 2005, at 3:19:44
Hi Arabela -
I've taken lithium orotate with 5htp before with success. However be careful not to take too much - I found 100mg with 2 tabs lith orotate made me very tired, antisocial and 'blah'. One tab and 50mg 5htp works a treat if I'm feeling very mixed up /anxious.
Both 5htp and lith orotate both work on anxiety for me - not really depression, although the lith effect must be quite subtle. The combo might have a different effect on you depending on how 5htp makes you feel?
THese days I take them at different times of the day - lith in the morning and 5htp in the evening (sometimes anyway).
Loops
Posted by doug9732 on September 24, 2005, at 12:42:33
In reply to nubby here on Li Orotate, posted by Arabela on September 24, 2005, at 3:19:44
5-HTP is converted in the body to serotonin and then melatonin, so it should normally be taken in the evening before sleeping.
Lithium orotate may cause lethargy in some, but not drowsiness, so it can be taken at any time of day. I use one a day for anxiety, not depression, and it seems to help.
TMG ( tri-methyl-glycine ) is my favorite anti-depressant. It is safe, fast acting, and can be taken at any time of day. It is good for avoiding heart attacks by lowering homocysteine, avoiding cancer by enabling DNA repair, and improving mood by raising s-adenosyl methionine levels. TMG is an unpatentable wonder-drug that few people know about.
Posted by LOOPS on September 24, 2005, at 15:44:18
In reply to 5-HTP can cause drowsiness, posted by doug9732 on September 24, 2005, at 12:42:33
Hi -
not to put anyone off as everyone reacts differently, but I really disliked TMG. It made me very dysphoric and put my anxiety through the roof. I was an angry crying mess by the end of the day - I took about half the usual dose - 400mg? However I have heard many positive anecdotes - guess it just depends how you're brain's wired.
People say TMG is similar to taking SAM-e but cheaper - well not quite for me - SAM-e made me anxious too, and gave me wicked insomnia with very fast heartbeat. Both things made me feel really weird, but SAM-e gave me racing thoughts.
Loops
Posted by Arabela on September 24, 2005, at 22:24:09
In reply to 5-HTP can cause drowsiness, posted by doug9732 on September 24, 2005, at 12:42:33
Did not know about TMG.5HTP worked well,I took 2 at night,1-2 during the day.I don't have migraines anymore only weaker one evey now and then.I was On Zoloft 4 years ago,but 4 months later I took myself off-slowly,I could not sleep,thats why I went to 5HTP.I did try Prozac and had strange side effects.Now it even make sense to me why I don't have my anxiety attacks-5HTP!I have mild OCD too and use to go through stages of bad anger-up and down all my life.After my sons death I just slipped in coma like life.It is easier now and the li orotate seems work but I feel really hyper at times,more than usually.I will try the TMG,but can I take it together w/li orotate?Thank you all for info!
Posted by barbaracat on September 25, 2005, at 15:13:00
In reply to TMG, posted by LOOPS on September 24, 2005, at 15:44:18
Hi Loops,
I'm sure you're familiar with Pfeiffer Institute/Dr. Walsh orthomolecular theories of mood disorders but the fact that you have such a pronounced negative reaction to TMG struck me as a possible over-methylation condition.There's much about Walsh's theories that are contradictory and I wish someone else would pick up the ball on his research, but if you haven't already explored this route, you might get some clues.
Here's a link:
Posted by LOOPS on September 25, 2005, at 15:45:22
In reply to Re: TMG » LOOPS, posted by barbaracat on September 25, 2005, at 15:13:00
Hi Barbaracat -
thanks for the link - I had heard about that stuff but hadn't seen that particular table. Very interesting reading - but a shame nothing seems to fit me completely! However the personality stuff fitted.
Loops
Posted by barbaracat on September 25, 2005, at 16:10:12
In reply to Re: TMG, posted by LOOPS on September 25, 2005, at 15:45:22
Take that information with a grain of salt.
There are alot of inconsistencies with Walsh and Pfeiffer's conclusions. Probably the most glaring are the thoughts on folic acid, since folates are needed to produce methyl doners, but they state that under-methylators must avoid folates. Same with conflicts on B6. And I don't know what to think on that bit of liking music or not. So, I don't go by those rules, only that there's value that might pop up other clues.The Pfeiffer folks seem to have a good handle on Autism but I haven't heard much glowing praise on any other condition. I think you have to be your own explorer or find someone who has done some further research in this field. But still, the orthomoledular avenue is intriguing and you might indeed be an over-methylator and hopefully will discover more relevant and updated info that can help. - BCat
> Hi Barbaracat -
>
> thanks for the link - I had heard about that stuff but hadn't seen that particular table. Very interesting reading - but a shame nothing seems to fit me completely! However the personality stuff fitted.
>
> Loops
Posted by LOOPS on September 26, 2005, at 19:00:02
In reply to Re: TMG » LOOPS, posted by barbaracat on September 25, 2005, at 16:10:12
Hi -
B6 has always been good to me. However so has lecithin in small dosages - although it does aggravate eczema (soy I think). DMAE was somewhat useful but did turn off my creative side for many months taking it. B3 was useful too but seemed to aggravate my eczema - possibly raising histamine too much? Never tried manganese supplements - get the feeling might make me go loopy though.
I've tried soooo many things. Basically my mainstays are lowish dose B vits (+P5P), vitamin C, cal/mag/zinc, fish oil, low dose vit E, cod liver oil, GLA, occasional NAC, lithium orotate, 5htp/tryptophan and various ginsengs. None of these things ever aggravate my mood swings. One of the best cheapo multivits I found was Berocca plus, which combines B vits, cal/mag/zinc and vitamin C in good dosages. Taking that cuts down the amount of pills I have to cart around.
And that's after years of spending tons on this and that!
The folate connection is interesting, because I always feel a lot better if I'm getting my green leafies in.
Talking of autism, I just found out my grandpa suffered from aspergers and my grandma was in fact 'strongly bipolar' - I never knew this until really grilled my father - it never ocurred to him to tell me!
Loops
Posted by Arabela on October 19, 2005, at 0:20:46
In reply to nubby here on Li Orotate, posted by Arabela on September 24, 2005, at 3:19:44
Friend of mine has husband on Lexapro and would like to know if he can take li/orot.w/it or switch.Is anybody here who has any info or experience?He is in his 60's,no energy and depressed,otherwise no other problems or medications.Thanks.
Posted by FranLeigh on December 30, 2008, at 11:44:38
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate « Michael Motter, posted by Dr. Bob on December 22, 2003, at 16:35:31
Hello Dr Bob,
Re: Lithium carbonate contains 18.8mg of elemental lithium per 100mg per 100mg (57mg per 300mg, 113mg per 600mg). Most lithium orotate compounds contains 3.83mg of elemental lithium per 100mg (4.8mg per 120mg). Thread link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031218/msgs/292479.htmlOne of the supplement vendors used by our Naturopathic Physician is Vital Nutrients (based in Middletown, CT). They claim their lithium (orotate) 20mg (stated on the label that way) provides 20mg of elemental lithium. Based on your information provided in an email to the forum dated December 22, 2003, I feel that information is not correct.
Could you provide literature I could share with Vital Nutrients explaining the difference between LiO and elemental lithium?
I appreciate any info you can provide.
FranLeigh
This is the end of the thread.
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