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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2005, at 5:09:57
I was wondering to myself, how much of the AD effect of SJW is attributed to quercetin. Then I bumped on this study. This is a great little study. It shows that quercetin can essentially do what most AD's do. Decrease the responsiveness of the 5-ht2 system. I am delighted, absolutely delighted. And it might make you live longer too !!
http://www.ru.ac.za/academic/departments/pharmacy/news/2003/resday/01.htm
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2005, at 5:10:55
In reply to THIS is the study I was looking for !!!!, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2005, at 5:09:57
Disolve the capsules in olive oil for better absorption.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2005, at 5:12:09
In reply to Re: THIS is the study I was looking for !!!!, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2005, at 5:10:55
The drug might serve to reduce my movement problems associated with other psychiatric drugs.
See.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2005, at 5:13:56
In reply to DOUBLE BONUS!!!!, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2005, at 5:12:09
And 5mg/kg is not an unreasonable dose too.
Linkadge
Posted by tealady on June 19, 2005, at 5:20:11
In reply to DOUBLE BONUS!!!!, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2005, at 5:12:09
What dose are you planning on trying?
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2005, at 5:25:56
In reply to great news » linkadge, posted by tealady on June 19, 2005, at 5:20:11
I've got 400mg x 120 caps for $25. I'm going to do one a day for 3 weeks then go from there.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on June 19, 2005, at 11:32:39
In reply to Re: great news, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2005, at 5:25:56
Hi Link :-)
You're a star! Best of luck with quercetin.
~Ed
Posted by Jakeman on June 19, 2005, at 14:47:40
In reply to Re: great news, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2005, at 5:25:56
Link, thanks for the info. Quercetin also appears to reverse cognitive impairment caused by age or alchohol consumption.
~JFree Radic Res. 2003 Nov;37(11):1245-52. Links
Reversal of aging and chronic ethanol-induced cognitive dysfunction by
quercetin a bioflavonoid.Singh A, Naidu PS, Kulkarni SK.
Pharmacology Division, University Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Panjab
University, Chandigarh-160014, India.Cognitive dysfunction, one of the most striking age-related impairments seen in
human beings, has been correlated to the vulnerability of the brain to
increased oxidative stress during aging process. Quercetin is a bioflavonoid
with strong antioxidant properties. Experiments were performed to study the
possible effects of quercetin on cognitive performance of young, aged or
ethanol-intoxicated mice (an animal model for cognition dysfunction) using one
trail step down type of passive avoidance and elevated plus maze tasks,
respectively. Aged or chronic ethanol-treated mice showed poor retention of
memory in step-down passive avoidance and in elevated plus-maze task. Chronic
administration of quercetin (10, 25 and 50 mg/kg) for 30 days or its
co-administration with ethanol (15% w/v, 2g/kg per orally) for 24 days
significantly reversed the age-related or chronic ethanol-induced retention
deficits in both the test paradigms. However, in both memory paradigms chronic
administration of quercetin failed to modulate the retention performance of
young mice. Chronic quercetin administration for 30 days also reversed age
associated increase in TBARS levels and decline in forebrain total glutathione
(GSH), SOD and catalase levels. Chronic ethanol administration to young mice
produced an increase in lipid peroxidation, and a decline in forebrain total
glutathione (GSH), SOD and catalase levels, which was significantly reversed by
the co-administration of quercetin (10, 25 and 50 mg/kg). The results of the
present study showed that chronic quercetin treatment reverses cognitive
deficits in aged and ethanol-intoxicated mice, which is associated with its
antioxidant property.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on June 22, 2005, at 15:59:50
In reply to THIS is the study I was looking for !!!!, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2005, at 5:09:57
Actually, not all ADs decrease the responsiveness of the 5ht system. Tranylcypromine in normal doses (10-80mg/day) does not affect 5ht2 receptors in this way, but in high doses (approx 90-120mg/day up to 200mg/day), it does. I do not think bupropion affects 5ht2 receptors, either. If I am wrong here, please cite sources to the contrary.
One ubiquitous indicator of an AD effect is downregulation of beta adrenoreceptors.
Posted by tealady on June 22, 2005, at 18:37:59
In reply to Re: also helps cognitive impairment, posted by Jakeman on June 19, 2005, at 14:47:40
> Link, thanks for the info. Quercetin also appears to reverse cognitive impairment caused by age or alchohol consumption.
> ~J
>
> Free Radic Res. 2003 Nov;37(11):1245-52. Links
>
> Reversal of aging and chronic ethanol-induced cognitive dysfunction by
> quercetin a bioflavonoid.
>
> Singh A, Naidu PS, Kulkarni SK.
>
> Pharmacology Division, University Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Panjab
> University, Chandigarh-160014, India.
>
> Cognitive dysfunction, one of the most striking age-related impairments seen in
> human beings, has been correlated to the vulnerability of the brain to
> increased oxidative stress during aging process. Quercetin is a bioflavonoid
> with strong antioxidant properties. Experiments were performed to study the
> possible effects of quercetin on cognitive performance of young, aged or
> ethanol-intoxicated mice (an animal model for cognition dysfunction) using one
> trail step down type of passive avoidance and elevated plus maze tasks,
> respectively. Aged or chronic ethanol-treated mice showed poor retention of
> memory in step-down passive avoidance and in elevated plus-maze task. Chronic
> administration of quercetin (10, 25 and 50 mg/kg) for 30 days or its
> co-administration with ethanol (15% w/v, 2g/kg per orally) for 24 days
> significantly reversed the age-related or chronic ethanol-induced retention
> deficits in both the test paradigms. However, in both memory paradigms chronic
> administration of quercetin failed to modulate the retention performance of
> young mice. Chronic quercetin administration for 30 days also reversed age
> associated increase in TBARS levels and decline in forebrain total glutathione
> (GSH), SOD and catalase levels. Chronic ethanol administration to young mice
> produced an increase in lipid peroxidation, and a decline in forebrain total
> glutathione (GSH), SOD and catalase levels, which was significantly reversed by
> the co-administration of quercetin (10, 25 and 50 mg/kg). The results of the
> present study showed that chronic quercetin treatment reverses cognitive
> deficits in aged and ethanol-intoxicated mice, which is associated with its
> antioxidant property.
>
>
>OK you guys convinced me.
I ordered a multi from the chemist and put 50mg quercetin in it yesterday.
I realise not the same level as Linkage, but should help especially with the antioxidant properties and with luck maybe with depression :-)I didn't like SJW when I tried it..foget why now, woud have to search this foum I guess. Think it increased anxiety??
I read lately that SJW interferes/reduces with estrogen ..so that would increase anxiety in that way.
Hope that quercetin doesn't work the same.
If anyone is interested I'll try to find where I read that yesterday.tea
Posted by linkadge on June 22, 2005, at 18:54:15
In reply to Re: THIS is the study I was looking for !!!! » linkadge, posted by Chairman_MAO on June 22, 2005, at 15:59:50
"One ubiquitous indicator of an AD effect is downregulation of beta adrenoreceptors."
I am not posative of that. I read a study that said that citalopram had no effect on beta-adrenoreceptor function. I have been looking for the past hour to find data on SSRI's and beta adrenoreceptor function but I have found none. Can you find any studies on SSRI's and adrenoreceptors?Actually, I am starting to believe that AD effects are more due to a regional regulation of NMDA function. See:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9770644&dopt=Abstract
I think that the NMDA effect of citalopram in the amygdala reflects its efficacy in panic.
I believe that 5-ht1a agnonism is sufficiant to downregulate the 5-ht2a receptors.But this study seems to suggest that adrenoreceptor activation can also regulate the 5-ht2 system.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8788498&dopt=Abstract
This page is interesting too.
http://biopsychiatry.com/5ht2.htm
Also from:http://www.preskorn.com/books/omd_s6.html
A general rule in clinical psychopharmacology is that the brain adapts to the presence of drugs. For example, uptake inhibitors produce downregulation of the receptors for the specific neurotransmitter whose uptake pump has been inhibited (eg, some serotonin receptors in the case of serotonin uptake inhibitors and beta-adrenergic receptors in the case of norepinephrine uptake inhibitors).17 In fact, such downregulation has been postulated to mediate the antidepressant efficacy of these drugs.
Such downregulation likely also mediates the withdrawal syndromes that can be seen when some of these antidepressants are abruptly stopped. Anticholinergic withdrawal syndrome can be seen when high-potency muscarinic cholinergic receptor blockers (ie, TATCAs) are abruptly stopped. The symptoms of anticholinergic withdrawal syndromes (sometimes called "cholinergic rebound") are listed in Table 6.12
---------------------------------------------
Perhaps, in the case of parnate, the higher doses have more effect on serotogenic function leading to adaptation of this system as well. Nardil might lead to 5-ht downregulation at more clinical doses as it seems to be a litte more serotogenic.
If the elevated receptor densisties are reflective of a relative absence of that particular neurotransmitter, then it stands to reason that an effective antidepressant for you, would be the one that leads to a normalization of the system.
I stand to be corrected however.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 22, 2005, at 18:58:54
In reply to Re: THIS is the study I was looking for !!!!, posted by linkadge on June 22, 2005, at 18:54:15
Long after celexa and zoloft had all but completely pooped, I was able to find some surprising relief with combination of NMDA antagonists.
zinc, magnesium, vitamin C, and theanine.
Most AD's are functional NMDA antagonists.Linkadge
Posted by Jakeman on June 22, 2005, at 19:24:07
In reply to antioxidant quercetin ..linkage » Jakeman, posted by tealady on June 22, 2005, at 18:37:59
I take a vitamin C supplement that includes 200 mg of Quercetin along with some other bioflavanoids. I've been kind of lax about taking antioxidants in the past, but the arguments for them keep piling up in the research. Quercetin is plentiful in citrus fruits and apples...maybe that's why I find fresh squeezed OJ so refreshing.
best regards ~ Jake
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