![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MoparFan91 on March 22, 2005, at 19:50:19
In addition to my medications of Lamictal, Geodon, and Klonopin (as needed) for Bipolar II, I'm taking the following meds/supplements many of which my doctor recommended:
To Help with Mood Stabilization:
Lamictal 100mg 2xday (200mg total)
Magnesium Glycinate 600mg 3xday (1,800mg total)
Fish Oil 1,800mg EPA/DHA 3xday (5,400mg EPA/DHA total) - I get this with 18 capsules total of Wal-Mart brand Fish OilTo Help Lift Depression:
Geodon 10mg 2xday (20mg total)
5-Hydroxy Tryptophan 100mg at bedtime and 50mg morning and noon (200mg total)
L-Tyrosine 500mg daily (30 minutes before waking up in the morning)To Help with Anxiety:
Taurine 500mg nightly
Niacin(amide) 500mg 3xday (1,500mg total)To Even Out Blood Sugar:
Chromium Picolinate 400mcg 2xday (800 mcg total)For Thyroid Health:
Zinc 50mg 2xday (100mg total)
Selenium 200mcg in the morning
Kelp/Iodine 1 TabletAugmenting Nutrients:
Vitamin C 4,000mg 3xday (12,000mg total)
Vitamin E 400IU 3xday (1,200IU total)
Vitamin B-Complex 1 Tablet in the morning
Vitamin B6 200mg 2xday (400mg total)
Vitamin B12 2,000 mcg 2xday (4,000mcg total)
Multi-Vitamin 2 Tablets in the morningAs Needed:
Klonopin 0.5mg for mixed states/anxiety
Extra Taurine 1,000mg-2,000mg for mixed states/anxiety
Glycine 2,000mg to calm hypomania
Melatonin 1mg for sleepI've been taking most of these consistently for about a month, and I seem to be getting some relief along with my meds. I seem to be getting the most benefits from Magnesium Glycinate, Fish Oil (been taking this for almost 2 months), 5-HTP (been on it for almost 2 weeks), and possibly Vitamin C (been on for a few weeks). I'm probably getting some benefit from the others as well.
I intially started on 800mg of Mag Glycinate a day but moved up later on. I have been at 1,200mg or higher of Magnesium Glycinate for almost a week recently moving up to 1,800mg. Since moving to higher doses of Magnesium Glycinate, my sleep quality seems to be improving some. I think 5-HTP may be playing a role here as well. I also think the Tyrosine helps keep me more alert during the day, but if I go over 500mg, my anxiety goes up. Fish Oil seems to be helping me keep afloat and also seems to give me more brain power. Vitamin C seems to have a mind-clearing effect on me as well (someone mentioned it has anti-psychotic properties at high doses).
Does anyone take any of these supplements listed above?
What are your experiences with them? Did you get any therapeutic benefits?
Posted by Chris O on March 23, 2005, at 14:58:06
In reply to My supplement regimen, posted by MoparFan91 on March 22, 2005, at 19:50:19
Mopar:
Wow, that's really a lot of stuff to take all at one time. I've taken many of the supplements you've listed, but never all together. Right now, I am taking 200mg of 5-HTP a day to manage my anxiety and depression. It seems to be having a mild effect...like a very mild-SSRI is how I would describe it. I accidentally took 200mg close together last night and my sleep was much better: smoother, longer, did not wake up much (usually wake up every 2 hours or so). I have also been trying a Country Life Amino Acid Mood Factors mix, which has Taurine, Tyrosine, B-6, C, and Zinc. It seems to offer a mild energy boost, but nothing big. I've never taken Taurine or Tyrosine in large doses on their own, but I suspect their affect on my me would be pretty mild. I've also tried large doses of Niacin in the past, but that never did anything for me. Fish Oil: I just did a two week experiment with high doses of Carlson's Fish Oil (6-10grams/day) and had mixed results: It did relieve some of my physicalized anxiety, but left me feeling very...weird, brain-fogged and strange. The fish oil relieved my physical anxiety but also increased another kind of anxiety. Hard to explain. I know I slept a bit better on the fish oil though, despite the increased anxiety. Melatonin, I've tried several times...and it is just not very powerful for me. It makes me slightly more tired, but does not really improve my sleep. Interesting what you say about Vitamin C. Maybe I'll have to give that (high doses) a try sometime.
Good luck,
Chris
Posted by Mistermindmasta on March 23, 2005, at 23:15:22
In reply to My supplement regimen, posted by MoparFan91 on March 22, 2005, at 19:50:19
> Magnesium Glycinate 600mg 3xday (1,800mg total)That amount of Mg is too high for me. I feel spacy and fatigued. You can tolerate this dose easily?
> Fish Oil 1,800mg EPA/DHA 3xday (5,400mg EPA/DHA total) - I get this with 18 capsules total of Wal-Mart brand Fish Oil
Very nice amount. I've found that a high dose of fish oil is good so long as I don't get any GI disturbances from it.
> 5-Hydroxy Tryptophan 100mg at bedtime and 50mg morning and noon (200mg total)The increased serotonin in my GI tract gives me loose bowels. I enjoy 5-HTP, but it's rough on my tummy.
> L-Tyrosine 500mg daily (30 minutes before waking up in the morning)
BEFORE waking up?? You mean you take it while you're still in bed?
> To Help with Anxiety:
> Taurine 500mg nightlyTaurine is nice for anxiety.
> Niacin(amide) 500mg 3xday (1,500mg total)
>Never took it.
> To Even Out Blood Sugar:
> Chromium Picolinate 400mcg 2xday (800 mcg total)Never found results from Chromium.
> For Thyroid Health:
> Zinc 50mg 2xday (100mg total)
> Selenium 200mcg in the morning
> Kelp/Iodine 1 TabletSounds good. I don't take such high doses but might consider it.
> Augmenting Nutrients:
> Vitamin C 4,000mg 3xday (12,000mg total)
> Vitamin E 400IU 3xday (1,200IU total)
> Vitamin B-Complex 1 Tablet in the morning
> Vitamin B6 200mg 2xday (400mg total)
> Vitamin B12 2,000 mcg 2xday (4,000mcg total)
> Multi-Vitamin 2 Tablets in the morning
>Do you notice increased anxiety from such high doses of B vitamins? I do.
> Melatonin 1mg for sleep
I get groggy the next day from any quantity of melotonin.
I might mention that at one point, I was doing 300 mg 5-htp / day, 1,000mg tyrosine per day as well as ashwaghanda which seems to have benzo/nicotine-esque nootropic/relaxing effects. I don't suggest that with your meds, but maybe sometime in the future...
Good luck. Nice supp regimen you got there. Certainly better than mine and it motivates me to improve my own.
Posted by joebob on March 24, 2005, at 9:36:16
In reply to Re: My supplement regimen, posted by Mistermindmasta on March 23, 2005, at 23:15:22
the drive/desire to smoke?
do you have any opinions on the extract mentioned here:
Sensoril™Sensoril™ is a patented proprietary extract of roots and leaves from Withania somnifera Dunn, known as Ashwagandha in Ayurvedic medicine. Developed by researcher Dr. S. Ghosal, who has published many scientific papers on the anti-stress action of various Ashwagandha compounds, Sensoril is standardized to contain the proper amounts of glycowithanolides, Withaferin-A, and oligosaccarides that research has shown to promote optimal anti-stress activity.
thanks,
joebob
Posted by MoparFan91 on March 24, 2005, at 21:38:56
In reply to Re: My supplement regimen, posted by Mistermindmasta on March 23, 2005, at 23:15:22
>
> > Magnesium Glycinate 600mg 3xday (1,800mg total)
>
> That amount of Mg is too high for me. I feel spacy and fatigued. You can tolerate this dose easily?I tolerate it pretty easily. I seem to need about this much for it to help stabilize my moods. I went to a web page on thewayup.com and took a test for Magnesium deficieny. A score of 30-50 means you're likely Magnesium deficient. A score over 50 indicates that you're most definitely magnesium deficient. I scored 58!!! The site says that every 600mg of Magnesium Glycinate should reduce the score by 15 points. Hence, the 1,800mg for me. Here's the URL for the site:
http://www.thewayup.com/newsletters/081501.htm
Also, here's a testimonial on magnesium for depression:
http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html
>
> > Fish Oil 1,800mg EPA/DHA 3xday (5,400mg EPA/DHA total) - I get this with 18 capsules total of Wal-Mart brand Fish Oil
>
> Very nice amount. I've found that a high dose of fish oil is good so long as I don't get any GI disturbances from it.
>I don't seem to be having any side effects from this amount. No fish burps either :-) ! I'm told that the Wal-Mart brand is clean from mercury/contamination.
> > 5-Hydroxy Tryptophan 100mg at bedtime and 50mg morning and noon (200mg total)
>
> The increased serotonin in my GI tract gives me loose bowels. I enjoy 5-HTP, but it's rough on my tummy.
>Magnesium Glycinate seems to make this work better for my symptoms.
I've been having some problems with loose bowels since being on these supplements. I'm not sure if the 5-HTP is causing it in my case or not.
> > L-Tyrosine 500mg daily (30 minutes before waking up in the morning)
>
> BEFORE waking up?? You mean you take it while you're still in bed?
>Yes, I take it while still in bed. Strange as it may sound :-D . This way, it seems to make it easier to get up once and for all in the morning. This is more convenient since it has to be taken on an empty stomach (30 minutes before eating) so that it gets into the brain. I keep a bottle of Tyrosine on my bedside table and swallow it 30 minutes before waking up out of bed.
Too much Tyrosine (greater than 500mg) makes me irritable, anxiety-ridden, and a little paranoid. 500mg helps with motivation and energy.
> > To Help with Anxiety:
> > Taurine 500mg nightly
>
> Taurine is nice for anxiety.
>Taurine seems to be great for this. Dr. Stoll says that it seems to work well for rapid-cycling bipolar disorder. I take extra Taurine when having mixed states or beginnings of anxiety attacks.
> > Niacin(amide) 500mg 3xday (1,500mg total)
> >
>
> Never took it.
>This seems to provide some coverage for anxiety during the day. Since I have high cholesterol, this is supposed to help lower cholesterol levels.
> > To Even Out Blood Sugar:
> > Chromium Picolinate 400mcg 2xday (800 mcg total)
>
> Never found results from Chromium.
>I've been taking this for about a month now. I'm not too sure what results I'm having from this, but I heard it's supposed to help improve body composition and prevent spikes and crashes of blood sugar. They say it also helps insulin sensitivity. Today, I bought the 500mcg tablets and am now taking 1 twice a day (for 1000mcg Chromium).
> > For Thyroid Health:
> > Zinc 50mg 2xday (100mg total)
> > Selenium 200mcg in the morning
> > Kelp/Iodine 1 Tablet
>
> Sounds good. I don't take such high doses but might consider it.
>I take Zinc because I'm definitely zinc deficient. I have white spots on my nails which indicate this. Since I'm Zinc deficient, I'm likely deficient in some other stuff.
> > Augmenting Nutrients:
> > Vitamin C 4,000mg 3xday (12,000mg total)
> > Vitamin E 400IU 3xday (1,200IU total)
> > Vitamin B-Complex 1 Tablet in the morning
> > Vitamin B6 200mg 2xday (400mg total)
> > Vitamin B12 2,000 mcg 2xday (4,000mcg total)
> > Multi-Vitamin 2 Tablets in the morning
> >
>
> Do you notice increased anxiety from such high doses of B vitamins? I do.
>Not too sure. I take high doses of B6 mainly because I possibly have mild aspergish tendencies (I act a little odd at times). High doses of B6 have been reported to help autism. I was upped to 600mg 2xday since at least 1 gram is needed to help.
Today, I punted the B-Complex and Multi-Vitamin because they had folic acid. I figured that the Folic Acid was possibly making my OCD worse, and I read that it was a no-no for OCD people. I also punted the B12 as well.
Vitamin C and Vitamin E augment the Fish Oil. They are supposed to make the Fish Oil work better. They are antioxidants, and they are supposed to keep the fish oil from oxidizing. So, it helps it to work more efficiently. Vitamin C also (according to what I read) has antipsychotic properties at high doses.
> > Melatonin 1mg for sleep
>
> I get groggy the next day from any quantity of melotonin.
>Too much Melatonin can give me a hangover the next day at the least and can worsen depression for me.
> I might mention that at one point, I was doing 300 mg 5-htp / day, 1,000mg tyrosine per day as well as ashwaghanda which seems to have benzo/nicotine-esque nootropic/relaxing effects. I don't suggest that with your meds, but maybe sometime in the future...
>Anything over 500mg Tyrosine makes me more anxious and irritable. Also, the higher dose makes me a little paranoid at times.
Early in the year, I was taking 2000mg Tyrosine 2xday, 1,200mg DL-Phenylalanine (DLPA) 2xday, and 500mg Glutamine 2xday MIXED with 300mg of Wellbutrin XL. This stuff set me up for serious anxiety. I felt extremely tense, clearly agitated, and felt like I was always on the verge of an anxiety attack. A doctor I saw (a GP, not a psychiatrist) early in the year OK'ed these supplements in addition to the Wellbutrin. Now my new Psychiatrist I started seeing recently punted the Wellbutrin and put me on Lamictal. He also suggesting lowering the Tyrosine/DLPA a bit. The anxiety got better. He also suggesting the Niacin, Fish Oil, and 5-HTP.
> Good luck. Nice supp regimen you got there. Certainly better than mine and it motivates me to improve my own.
Yeah, this supp regimen seems to be doing some good things so far along with my meds.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 25, 2005, at 17:11:37
In reply to My supplement regimen, posted by MoparFan91 on March 22, 2005, at 19:50:19
> In addition to my medications of Lamictal, Geodon, and Klonopin (as needed) for Bipolar II, I'm taking the following meds/supplements many of which my doctor recommended:
>
> To Help with Mood Stabilization:
> Lamictal 100mg 2xday (200mg total)
> Magnesium Glycinate 600mg 3xday (1,800mg total)
> Fish Oil 1,800mg EPA/DHA 3xday (5,400mg EPA/DHA total) - I get this with 18 capsules total of Wal-Mart brand Fish Oil
>
> To Help Lift Depression:
> Geodon 10mg 2xday (20mg total)
> 5-Hydroxy Tryptophan 100mg at bedtime and 50mg morning and noon (200mg total)
> L-Tyrosine 500mg daily (30 minutes before waking up in the morning)
>
> To Help with Anxiety:
> Taurine 500mg nightly
> Niacin(amide) 500mg 3xday (1,500mg total)
>
> To Even Out Blood Sugar:
> Chromium Picolinate 400mcg 2xday (800 mcg total)
>
> For Thyroid Health:
> Zinc 50mg 2xday (100mg total)That's too much zinc. You'll suppress copper uptake at that dose. Maximum should be around 40 mg/day.
> Selenium 200mcg in the morning
> Kelp/Iodine 1 Tablet
>
> Augmenting Nutrients:
> Vitamin C 4,000mg 3xday (12,000mg total)
> Vitamin E 400IU 3xday (1,200IU total)This should be a mixed tocopherol supplement. Recent evidence has demonstrated that the alpha-tocopherol (synthetic E) supps can cause lasting deficiencies of gamma-tocopherols, which have independent antioxidant effects in vivo. It's really worth seeking out a mixed tocopherol vitamin E supp. Make sure it contains gamma-tocopherols.
> Vitamin B-Complex 1 Tablet in the morning
> Vitamin B6 200mg 2xday (400mg total)
> Vitamin B12 2,000 mcg 2xday (4,000mcg total)You only need that amount for about one month, to get your body stores maxed out. After one month, you could take that much once a week.
> Multi-Vitamin 2 Tablets in the morning
>
> As Needed:
> Klonopin 0.5mg for mixed states/anxiety
> Extra Taurine 1,000mg-2,000mg for mixed states/anxiety
> Glycine 2,000mg to calm hypomania
> Melatonin 1mg for sleep
>
> I've been taking most of these consistently for about a month, and I seem to be getting some relief along with my meds. I seem to be getting the most benefits from Magnesium Glycinate, Fish Oil (been taking this for almost 2 months), 5-HTP (been on it for almost 2 weeks), and possibly Vitamin C (been on for a few weeks). I'm probably getting some benefit from the others as well.
>
> I intially started on 800mg of Mag Glycinate a day but moved up later on. I have been at 1,200mg or higher of Magnesium Glycinate for almost a week recently moving up to 1,800mg. Since moving to higher doses of Magnesium Glycinate, my sleep quality seems to be improving some. I think 5-HTP may be playing a role here as well. I also think the Tyrosine helps keep me more alert during the day, but if I go over 500mg, my anxiety goes up. Fish Oil seems to be helping me keep afloat and also seems to give me more brain power. Vitamin C seems to have a mind-clearing effect on me as well (someone mentioned it has anti-psychotic properties at high doses).
>
> Does anyone take any of these supplements listed above?
>
> What are your experiences with them? Did you get any therapeutic benefits?I certainly obtain a sense of resiliency, and of mood stabilization. I'm less irritable. I know I'm still mentally ill, but there just aren't extremes like before. I bounce back better. That sort of thing.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 25, 2005, at 17:14:04
In reply to are you saying that ashwaghanda might decrease » Mistermindmasta, posted by joebob on March 24, 2005, at 9:36:16
> the drive/desire to smoke?
> do you have any opinions on the extract mentioned here:
>
>
> Sensoril™
>
> Sensoril™ is a patented proprietary extract of roots and leaves from Withania somnifera Dunn, known as Ashwagandha in Ayurvedic medicine. Developed by researcher Dr. S. Ghosal, who has published many scientific papers on the anti-stress action of various Ashwagandha compounds, Sensoril is standardized to contain the proper amounts of glycowithanolides, Withaferin-A, and oligosaccarides that research has shown to promote optimal anti-stress activity.
>
> thanks,
> joebobI found Ashwaghanda to have potent effects, but it gave me worsening of my insomnia. I have to put sleep first.
Lar
Posted by ed_uk on March 26, 2005, at 10:46:45
In reply to Re: My supplement regimen » MoparFan91, posted by Larry Hoover on March 25, 2005, at 17:11:37
Hi Lar,
> I know I'm still mentally ill, but there just aren't extremes like before.....
I hope you don't mind me asking, what mental health problems do you have? I know you used to drink too much but not anymore, I know you suffer from insomnia, I think you may also suffer from depression but I'm not sure. I vaguely remember that you've had some bad reactions to drugs, possibly SSRIs at 'standard' doses.
I read many of your posts, you help people a lot. I don't know much about *you* though.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 12:28:30
In reply to Re: Lar » Larry Hoover, posted by ed_uk on March 26, 2005, at 10:46:45
> Hi Lar,
>
> > I know I'm still mentally ill, but there just aren't extremes like before.....
>
> I hope you don't mind me asking, what mental health problems do you have? I know you used to drink too much but not anymore, I know you suffer from insomnia, I think you may also suffer from depression but I'm not sure. I vaguely remember that you've had some bad reactions to drugs, possibly SSRIs at 'standard' doses.
>
> I read many of your posts, you help people a lot. I don't know much about *you* though.
>
> Regards,
> Ed.Yes, I have horrible reactions to nearly all pharmaceutical drugs I've ever tried, particularly the SSRIs. I think that is a characteristic component of a large percentage of people with PTSD.
I come from a bloodline with 100% mood disorder incidence in the males. I have two sons. Makes me wonder, what their future holds.
I have been diagnosed with major depression (recurrent, treatment resistant) overlaid on top of dysthymia. The combination is sometimes known as "double depression".
I also have PTSD (chronic), and recently experienced PTSD (acute). I also have IBS, insomnia, and chronic fatigue syndrome.
Some of the diagnostic categories (obviously) overlap in symptoms. Frankly, I see myself as having a single disorder, which manifests in multiple dimensions, in response to environmental circumstances.
Other than that, I am fine. ;-)
Lar
Posted by ed_uk on March 26, 2005, at 12:38:15
In reply to Re: Lar » ed_uk, posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 12:28:30
Hi Lar :-)
>Yes, I have horrible reactions to nearly all pharmaceutical drugs I've ever tried.......
The gabapentin looks good so far!
>Some of the diagnostic categories (obviously) overlap in symptoms. Frankly, I see myself as having a single disorder, which manifests in multiple dimensions, in response to environmental circumstances.
Yes, I know what you mean. I have fitted the criteria for trillions of different diagnoses at different times in my life, I do think a lot of my problems are linked though.
>Other than that, I am fine. ;-)
How are you at the moment?
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 21:52:02
In reply to Re: Lar » Larry Hoover, posted by ed_uk on March 26, 2005, at 12:38:15
> Hi Lar :-)
>
> >Yes, I have horrible reactions to nearly all pharmaceutical drugs I've ever tried.......
>
> The gabapentin looks good so far!Works great on the neuropathic pain, but it's less clear just what the psychotropic effects will be. I'm going to reserve judgement.
> >Some of the diagnostic categories (obviously) overlap in symptoms. Frankly, I see myself as having a single disorder, which manifests in multiple dimensions, in response to environmental circumstances.
>
> Yes, I know what you mean. I have fitted the criteria for trillions of different diagnoses at different times in my life, I do think a lot of my problems are linked though.Trillions? Oh, my!
> >Other than that, I am fine. ;-)
>
> How are you at the moment?
>
> Kind regards,
> Ed.I'm tentative, thanks. Fair to middling, with some hope, but some reserve.
I've got to manage my energy closely. I cannot risk going into "energy overdraft". There is no reserve to draw on.
How are you doing, yourself?
Lar
Posted by ed_uk on March 27, 2005, at 17:16:33
In reply to Re: Lar » ed_uk, posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 21:52:02
Hi Lar!
>Trillions? Oh, my!
OK, maybe not quite that many!
>How are you doing, yourself?
No OCD or anxiety atm, which is good :-) I'm feeling very lethargic though :-(
Ed.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.