![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 25 to 49 of 49. Go back in thread:
Posted by tealady on February 19, 2005, at 19:36:12
In reply to Re: Fish oil-Aussie brands, how is no smell/taste done, posted by sabre on February 18, 2005, at 22:24:47
Fish oil , just one capsule a day usually gives me acne..severe enough for doc to comment on when I visit him for other things, as well as flatulence!
Also I suspect I get that increase in anxiety that Loops commented on. I tried it for many months then gave up. I finally tolerated one capsule but had some effects when I tried increasing to 2 caps a day.
Recently I've tried flaxseed ground on my brekkie oats and flaxseed oil and that feels much better.
I've always loved EPO (just one a day), and just bought some more again.
I'm trying now fish oil + EPo + flaxseed...
I think that helps but I'm adding in B5 to see if I can tolerate better. B5 helps one's body break down the oils and use them supposedly.(posted on b4)
Still experimenting.
Personally I won't go above 2 caps a day of fish oil probably with one cap a day of EPO and a tablespoon of linseed meal(flaxseed). I'm just using up some flaxseed oil on my skin as well.Loops seems to be saying she has found a similar combo best for her as well.
I suspect this is more of a 'female" combo, with males doing better on plain fish oil or a fish oil /cod iver oil combo in colder climates/winter?
I do know flaxseed is not great for males(prostrate cancer), and EPO does help with estrogen I think..not sure on that one..poor memory.I got those odourless fish oil caps for Dad. I've started him on cod liver oil, then added in 2 caps of fish oil a day and 1 cap of EPO for GLA. Seems to maybe be helping.
He noticed a softening of motions on the cod liver oil, which has remained on the fish oil caps.
I notice this softening as well... both not constipated before though.
Other than that, I think the flaxseed seems to help with eye moisture, and perhaps moisture levels of whole body(but that could be something else I'm taking too like estrogen). But I suspect that fish oil may take away from the other omega 3 oils in our body creating a slight imbalance that is helped by a little flaxseed. I think this idea is backed by some research I've read on omega balances when adding in fish oil it seems to "replace" the other long chain fatty acids first from memory. ..Lar probably knows this stuff. Anyway I figure that is why I need the lot for a better balance.
So just trying this at present with the B5 to help break down and utilize all this extra fatty acids.
I really hated fish oil by itself though, increased anxiety and "edginess" I think as well as just not feeling right and other physical symptoms mentioned above.
iT took a long time after stopping to start feeling as before again.(months, but I guess that makes sense.
IMO 3 caps of fish oil is enough for most(unless you are a big build, as intake should be proportional to weight). I've spoken to researchers(average size males) in omega3 etc. and that's what they take, and I figure they probably know as much as anyone .
Jan
Posted by sabre on February 21, 2005, at 0:15:44
In reply to Re: Fish oil-Aussie brands, how is no smell/taste done » sabre, posted by tealady on February 19, 2005, at 19:36:12
Thankyou Jan.
I can't say I have noticed anything from taking the fish oil....on it or off it. I think I might try the flaxseed oil instead of the fish oil after reading your post.
I wish there was an easier way of determining what will work and at what dosage.
sabre
Posted by banga on February 22, 2005, at 8:30:42
In reply to Re: fsih oil - other brands? » banga, posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 17:09:34
Hi Larry,
Sorry I haven't visited this board in a while. I studied supplements feverishly a year ago and got researched out. It is especially depressing because I am faced with the fact that I can research all I want, but a month later I will have forgotten 60% of what I read.So: The thing is when I am depressed I eat very little, so I really am missing just about everything in terms of nutrition.
But I agree, I have heard conflicting research. I have too read that if anything we have too much omega 6 proportionally. Then you hav Joan Larsen (was the book Depression free naturally?) saying omega 6 deficiency has been linked to depression and alcoholism. Evidence in both directions.
I admittedly have not studied up on omega 9 as much.
Flax oil----not always can ALA be converted to DHA and EPA so you need fish oil as a source of omega 3, however it has other benefits.But thus I take still extra fish oil for its benefits--so I do take more omega 3 than this formula.I am sure we can match oil formulas with ease and less expensive, that is definitely true and they rip us off. I however do not want to drink oil daily, so I will spend the money and take the sofgels thank you!
Posted by tealady on February 25, 2005, at 3:33:48
In reply to Re: Fish oil-Aussie brands, how is no smell/taste done, posted by sabre on February 21, 2005, at 0:15:44
reading a bit more on this stuff...I think adding in some omega9's as well as the omega3's is important in the mix too.
Olive oil contains omega9's (oleic acid)..there are other types too, but perhaps this is one of the best ones...google on omega9
I've , well for a no of years anyway used olive oil in cooking..and eaten almonds etc.
Flax apparently has a little omega9 too.
Taking both omega9 + omega3's really helps reduce the omega6's and bring them into balance...a lttle saturated fat added in helps too(like I use unrefined coconut oil on my skin sometimes as a moisturizer and use butter and avocados in place of margarine).http://fst.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/9/5/329
I've always bought "sardines in olive oil" in tins, I'm not going to fry them though...maybe they are already cooked this way?Just trying to balance the ratios..and I guess this means reducing omega 6's and eliminating trans fats wherever possible, kinda what I've been doing for years anyway. Gee I should be healthy!
http://www.mercola.com/2003/jul/19/trans_fat.htm
Jan
Posted by tealady on February 25, 2005, at 4:43:02
In reply to Re: fsih oil - other brands? » banga, posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 17:09:34
> > I am taking a NOW formula that I like--
> > NOW Omega 3-6-9
> > I like it because it has a variety of oils--all but fish oil that I add separately.
> > flax seed oil-1400mg
> > Evening Primrose Oil 300mg
> > Canola Oil 260mg
> > Black Currant Oil 20mg
> > Pumpkin seed Oil 20mg
> >
> > I heard not taking omega 9 with the others can cause an imbalance.
> >
> > For the person on Evening Primrose Oil, how much do you take? How is it supposed to help with hormone imbalances?
>
> Omega-9 fatty acids are not deficient in most people's diets, and there is no imbalance associated with their lack.
>
> With the advent of modern food processing over the last century, and the novel availability and amount of vegetable oils in our diets (from an evolutionary perspective), I cannot conceive that anyone is deficient in omega-6 or omega-9 fatty acids. We currently get about 60 times as much as our ancestors had in their diets. Simultaneous to that increase, we've lost half our omega-3 intake.
>
> I was able to exactly match a commercial (Udo's) 3-6-9 oil blend by simply proportioning canola, olive and flax oils appropriately. Hocus-pocus oil, IMHO.
>
> Just my perspective.
>
> Lar
>
Hi Lar(or anyone else with an interest),
I used to have somewhere a table of oils (n3,n6 and maybe n9's) in various foods, but I can't find it. Just wondering if you have one somewhere you can easily lay your hands on..or a ref.
Also re n9's ..what is a typical percentage in human membranes..or diet? I can't seem to find that out for humans either...and how has it changed in recent (last 100 ys) consumption. I've heard a lot about omega6/omega3 ratios but nothing on omega9's.Jan
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 2, 2005, at 16:33:19
In reply to Balance of oils/fats n3,n6,n9 , saturated, trans » sabre, posted by tealady on February 25, 2005, at 3:33:48
> reading a bit more on this stuff...I think adding in some omega9's as well as the omega3's is important in the mix too.
> Olive oil contains omega9's (oleic acid)..there are other types too, but perhaps this is one of the best ones...google on omega9Human beings can synthesize oleic acid from carbohydrate, or from the saturated fat stearic acid (via delta-9 desaturase). Cooking with olive oil is good for you, if you must use oil, but you don't need to purposely take some as a supplement, IMHO.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 2, 2005, at 16:36:59
In reply to oil mixtures » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on February 25, 2005, at 4:43:02
> Hi Lar(or anyone else with an interest),
> I used to have somewhere a table of oils (n3,n6 and maybe n9's) in various foods, but I can't find it. Just wondering if you have one somewhere you can easily lay your hands on..or a ref.I hope this isn't too detailed:
http://web.archive.org/web/20031119104251/http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~ah/food/You can cross-reference the names with the structures here:
http://hec.osu.edu/people/shertzler/Lipid%20metabolism%20part%201.pdf> Also re n9's ..what is a typical percentage in human membranes..or diet? I can't seem to find that out for humans either...and how has it changed in recent (last 100 ys) consumption. I've heard a lot about omega6/omega3 ratios but nothing on omega9's.
>
> JanOmega-9 is not generally found in membranes. It's stored in adipose tissue for energy production.
Lar
Posted by itsme2003 on March 23, 2005, at 2:17:51
In reply to Re: fsih oil - other brands? » banga, posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 17:09:34
>
> Omega-9 fatty acids are not deficient in most people's diets, and there is no imbalance associated with their lack.
>
> With the advent of modern food processing over the last century, and the novel availability and amount of vegetable oils in our diets (from an evolutionary perspective), I cannot conceive that anyone is deficient in omega-6 or omega-9 fatty acids. We currently get about 60 times as much as our ancestors had in their diets. Simultaneous to that increase, we've lost half our omega-3 intake.
>
> I was able to exactly match a commercial (Udo's) 3-6-9 oil blend by simply proportioning canola, olive and flax oils appropriately. Hocus-pocus oil, IMHO.
>
> Just my perspective.
>
> Lar
>Keep in mind that there are two important items about a particular fatty acid. The position of the first double bond (the omega) and the chain length. The body can shorten the chains fairly easily, but has a lot of difficulty making the chain longer. Thus you can't really take flax oil (a shorter chain omega-3) and expect to get the benefits that you would get from fish oil (a longer chain omega-3).
I have read that the standard American diet is deficient in Gamma Linolenic Aid (GLA) which is an omega-6 fatty acid. Thus a person could be in a position of ingesting way too much omega-6 fatty acid, yet not get enough of one particular omega-6 fatty acid.
I agree that the average person has no deficiency of omega-9 fatty acids. These come along naturally in all of the named ingredients in this oil. Besides from a marketing perspective, omega 3-6-9 oil probably sounds better than omega 3-6 oil.
Posted by banga on March 26, 2005, at 11:12:38
In reply to Not all Omega-3s are created equal, posted by itsme2003 on March 23, 2005, at 2:17:51
> Keep in mind that there are two important items about a particular fatty acid. The position of the first double bond (the omega) and the chain length. The body can shorten the chains fairly easily, but has a lot of difficulty making the chain longer. Thus you can't really take flax oil (a shorter chain omega-3) and expect to get the benefits that you would get from fish oil (a longer chain omega-3).
>
> I have read that the standard American diet is deficient in Gamma Linolenic Aid (GLA) which is an omega-6 fatty acid. Thus a person could be in a position of ingesting way too much omega-6 fatty acid, yet not get enough of one particular omega-6 fatty acid.
>
> I agree that the average person has no deficiency of omega-9 fatty acids. These come along naturally in all of the named ingredients in this oil. Besides from a marketing perspective, omega 3-6-9 oil probably sounds better than omega 3-6 oil.
SO GLA is only one of several types of omega-6? That might explain a contradition in my mind...I had read a deficiency of GLA can lead to derpession, yet our diets are supposedly replete with omega 6...
So do we help by adding GLA, or do we upset the balance still further? What is the solution---add both GLA, and even more omega 3s (fish oil, I did know flax oil is different...)
And while on this subject, I know some theorize that people may have difficulty converting EPA to DHA....or was it the other way around? Do you know about this?
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 11:15:20
In reply to Not all Omega-3s are created equal, posted by itsme2003 on March 23, 2005, at 2:17:51
> >
> > Omega-9 fatty acids are not deficient in most people's diets, and there is no imbalance associated with their lack.
> >
> > With the advent of modern food processing over the last century, and the novel availability and amount of vegetable oils in our diets (from an evolutionary perspective), I cannot conceive that anyone is deficient in omega-6 or omega-9 fatty acids. We currently get about 60 times as much as our ancestors had in their diets. Simultaneous to that increase, we've lost half our omega-3 intake.
> >
> > I was able to exactly match a commercial (Udo's) 3-6-9 oil blend by simply proportioning canola, olive and flax oils appropriately. Hocus-pocus oil, IMHO.
> >
> > Just my perspective.
> >
> > Lar
> >
>
> Keep in mind that there are two important items about a particular fatty acid. The position of the first double bond (the omega) and the chain length. The body can shorten the chains fairly easily, but has a lot of difficulty making the chain longer. Thus you can't really take flax oil (a shorter chain omega-3) and expect to get the benefits that you would get from fish oil (a longer chain omega-3).
>
> I have read that the standard American diet is deficient in Gamma Linolenic Aid (GLA) which is an omega-6 fatty acid. Thus a person could be in a position of ingesting way too much omega-6 fatty acid, yet not get enough of one particular omega-6 fatty acid.
>
> I agree that the average person has no deficiency of omega-9 fatty acids. These come along naturally in all of the named ingredients in this oil. Besides from a marketing perspective, omega 3-6-9 oil probably sounds better than omega 3-6 oil.All absolutely correct. There is no substitute for ingestion of preformed EPA and DHA. Moreover, ingesting the combination of omega-3 fats (which bind to desaturase enzymes with higher affinity than do omega-6) with GLA shunts the GLA into an alternative pathway (not towards arichidonic acid) that produces anti-inflammatory prostaglandins.
The commercial 3-6-9 blends are nothing more than snake oil products, IMHO. Udo is a quack.
Lar
Posted by banga on March 26, 2005, at 12:14:16
In reply to Re: Not all Omega-3s are created equal » itsme2003, posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 11:15:20
How quickly could one expect benefit for mood stabilization with EFAs (fish oil)?
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 12:42:16
In reply to Re: Not all Omega-3s are created equal, posted by banga on March 26, 2005, at 11:12:38
> SO GLA is only one of several types of omega-6? That might explain a contradition in my mind...I had read a deficiency of GLA can lead to derpession, yet our diets are supposedly replete with omega 6...
> So do we help by adding GLA, or do we upset the balance still further? What is the solution---add both GLA, and even more omega 3s (fish oil, I did know flax oil is different...)
> And while on this subject, I know some theorize that people may have difficulty converting EPA to DHA....or was it the other way around? Do you know about this?Gamma-linolenic acid is an omega-6 fatty acid with 3 double bonds, compared to linoleic acid, the main source of omega-6, which has only two double bonds.
Gamma-linolenic acid can go on to be converted into dihomgammalinolenic acid, which then becomes arichidonic acid. However, GLA can be shunted into a different pathway to become anti-inflammatory prostaglandins. That shunting occurs when there are sufficient other molecules competing for the enzymes that go to make dihomogammalinolenic acid.....those competitors are omega-3 fatty acids. So, high intake of omega-3 with GLA goes to anti-inflammatory effects.
Lar
P.S. Don't you love the name dihomogammalinolenic acid? Only a geek could come up with that one.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 12:44:43
In reply to Re: HOw fast do EFA work?, posted by banga on March 26, 2005, at 12:14:16
> How quickly could one expect benefit for mood stabilization with EFAs (fish oil)?
Some people notice immediate effects. I've seen reports of activation and insomnia, occurring immediately.
Generally, the calming and resilient effects tend to come on gradually, over weeks. The fatty acids become incomporated into cell membranes over time, as normal turnover occurs. The half-life of a membrane phospholipid (where the fish fatty acids end up) is measured in weeks, so it takes time for the fish oils to get where they need to go. Some estimates are eight months for the effect to become complete.
Lar
Posted by banga on March 26, 2005, at 17:45:59
In reply to Re: Not all Omega-3s are created equal » banga, posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 12:42:16
dihomogammalinolenic acid
Only Germans could compete in terms of word length I think!
Thank you for your response!
Posted by carolineh on March 27, 2005, at 2:01:31
In reply to Re: Not all Omega-3s are created equal » Larry Hoover, posted by banga on March 26, 2005, at 17:45:59
As I have reported earlier, I know high levels of Omega 3s have alleviated others' depression, but I have been frustrated that it has not worked for me. So I have decided to go to "the real thing"--since I read that the average portion of salmon contains 2 grams of omega 3s, I have decided to eat salmon as often as possible--every day if I can do it.
I like salmon a lot, and I know in earlier days when I ate a lot of salmon I felt better, but I was doing a lot of other good-for-you things, too, and well, there were other circumstances that may have been responsible for my feeling of well-being.
so I'll let you know how it goes...
btw, Lar, many MDs would disagree with you that the average diet is not deficient in Omega 6s. Although many experts are off their rockers, I would caution you not to get carried away with your expertise. Just my thinking.
Caroline
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2005, at 7:21:58
In reply to Re: A new twist--eating salmon often..., posted by carolineh on March 27, 2005, at 2:01:31
> As I have reported earlier, I know high levels of Omega 3s have alleviated others' depression, but I have been frustrated that it has not worked for me. So I have decided to go to "the real thing"--since I read that the average portion of salmon contains 2 grams of omega 3s, I have decided to eat salmon as often as possible--every day if I can do it.
There's a lot more to whole fish than the fish oils therein. Experiments have demonstrated that fish protein has a differential psychological impact than does an amino-acid equivalent protein ration based on soy. Although the "standard wisdom" is that one protein source is equivalent to any other (if balanced for essential aminos), there is a growing body of evidence that is not the case. Moreover, fish are an excellent source of DMAE, which is touted to have antidepressant properties.
In all cases, I would support eating fish over using fish oil, except when really high omega-3 fatty acid intake levels are indicated. You can only eat so much fish.
> I like salmon a lot, and I know in earlier days when I ate a lot of salmon I felt better, but I was doing a lot of other good-for-you things, too, and well, there were other circumstances that may have been responsible for my feeling of well-being.
>
> so I'll let you know how it goes...Great.
> btw, Lar, many MDs would disagree with you that the average diet is not deficient in Omega 6s. Although many experts are off their rockers, I would caution you not to get carried away with your expertise. Just my thinking.
>
> CarolineI would hope that you would not resort to personal commentary about my internal experiences. My opinion is my opinion. I do not get carried away.
I welcome debate. The most important pieces of learning are when one is in error, and evidence comes to show that. I like to be wrong.
That said, with respect to omega 6 fatty acids.....
In other posts on this page, you will see cases where I have differentiated among the omega 6 fatty acids, particularly those with 18 carbons in their skeleton. Omega 6 fats are not substitutable, one for another. Dietary intake of linoleic acid, all from vegetable oil sources, has increased by up to a factor of 10000, all in the last century. Other than olive oil, and some very minor vegetable oils generally used for flavouring, vegetable oil was simply not in existence a century ago. It arose as the result of the food processing industry.
Prior to 1900, the only oils commonly used in the household were sourced from animals. Lard, in particular. Animal fat is a poor source of linoleic acid, unless the animals have been fattened on grain. (Even then, the amounts are not huge.) But, guess what? Grain finishing of animals before slaughter, and grain rations for swine, are also artefacts of the 20th century. Once again, we have a modern change, part of the new industrial food processing paradigm.
The thing is, humans did not ever, throughout all prior periods in our evolution, we did not ever have such abundant sources of linoleic acid. Vegetable oils, really just food extracts, did not exist. They flood and overflow the capacity of our enzymes. We cannot manage this onslaught, from a physiological perspective.
That leads me to consider another eighteen carbon omega 6 fatty acid, gammalinolenic acid. The flood of linoleic acid disrupts our ability to utilize this fatty acid, virtually wiping it away. We now need to supplement with GLA sources, to try and compete on a more level playing field. Moreover, to make that intervention more effective, we have to purposefully ingest more omega 3 fatty acids. We shouldn't *have to* do that, but the "modern diet", i.e. industrial food products, forces us to make those accomodations.
If your argument was with respect to GLA, then I hope this clarifies my position.
I have studied the writings and research of fatty acid experts, medical doctors who have taken up this isolated aspect of physiology, to make it their life's work. I do not come to my opinions lightly, as I have also studied the evidence upon which they rely. I concur with their findings.
I did not hold myself as an expert. I hold myself out to be informed. I would be only too happy to be shown to be in error, as I said in my introduction. However, the misinformed opinions of a few doctors is not enough to sway me.
I have come to realize that much of the "evidence" upon which the public presentation of nutritional guidance is based is false, or nonexistent. The food pyramid is actually a myth, for example. It has no basis in fact. No supporting evidence of any kind. And yet, it is promoted far and wide as a basis for healthy eating. As a result, we have an epidemic of obesity. This is not a portion SIZE epidemic, it is a portion TYPE epidemic.
And so on.
If you wish to debate any issues with me, I promise that I will not take it personally. Please don't start off that way.
Lar
Posted by banga on March 27, 2005, at 8:22:19
In reply to Re: A new twist--eating salmon often... » carolineh, posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2005, at 7:21:58
I for one appreciate all your information Lar---and I do understand it is opinion....thank you for explaining the linoleic acid vs GLA. The sad thing is--I have read about many of these things, but my memory fails me miserably!! I understood GLA could help my health, then I forgot why! if everyone says in a blanket statement that we have too much omega 6 in our diet...
Also one piece to remember in regards to changes in our foods....not only livestock are fed on cornmeal, which can alter the composition of the meat---but also farm-raised salmon are on cornmeal. I have read that studies show these farm-raised salmon have MUCH less omega 3 than wild salmon. I for one do not assume omega 3 supplementation from salmon unless I know it is wild salmon.....
These are reasons why I too belive these days we cannot assume we get adequate nutrition from food--the food has changed dramatically in composition and nutrient amounts!
Posted by banga on March 27, 2005, at 8:26:43
In reply to Re: A new twist--eating salmon often... » carolineh, posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2005, at 7:21:58
Oh, and I dont know if you know the answer to a question I asekd earlier. EPA can be made by the body into DHA right? I dont know if I remember it correctly. And I have read perhaps some people with mental illness may have difficulty converting EPA to DHA....(from what I gather this is just theory right now..)
I am double-checking in order to evaluate what balance of EPA/DHA I should look for the next time I seek a supplement....
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2005, at 8:37:10
In reply to Re: A new twist--eating salmon often... » Larry Hoover, posted by banga on March 27, 2005, at 8:22:19
> Also one piece to remember in regards to changes in our foods....not only livestock are fed on cornmeal, which can alter the composition of the meat---but also farm-raised salmon are on cornmeal. I have read that studies show these farm-raised salmon have MUCH less omega 3 than wild salmon. I for one do not assume omega 3 supplementation from salmon unless I know it is wild salmon.....
That is only true for European farmed salmon, and only some farmed salmon, at that. All American salmon (both South and North American) is fed a ration which is primarily made from fish meal. (There are environmental arguments against that, as huge ships with vacuums are sucking up herring- and sardine-like fishes at massive rates, and just grinding them up.) In any case, that grain-fed fish armument is old news. I don't think it happens very often any more, and only applies to certain areas of the North Sea, anyway.
> These are reasons why I too belive these days we cannot assume we get adequate nutrition from food--the food has changed dramatically in composition and nutrient amounts!
North American farmed salmon is sometimes higher in omega-3s than wild caught. It's really hard to make generalizations.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2005, at 8:41:22
In reply to Re: A new twist--eating salmon often... » Larry Hoover, posted by banga on March 27, 2005, at 8:26:43
> Oh, and I dont know if you know the answer to a question I asekd earlier. EPA can be made by the body into DHA right? I dont know if I remember it correctly. And I have read perhaps some people with mental illness may have difficulty converting EPA to DHA....(from what I gather this is just theory right now..)
>
> I am double-checking in order to evaluate what balance of EPA/DHA I should look for the next time I seek a supplement....There is a possible defect in one particular enzyme, (delta-6 desaturase?), that may be linked to schizophrenia.... Yes, it affects that specific conversion (if I recall which desaturase enzyme correctly....it's might be delta-5 desaturase).
In any case, if you supply both fatty acids, your body will generally take care of rebalancing the supply to meet its needs, all things considered.
Some people may do better on high-EPA fish oils, others on the regular stuff. Maybe some might need something more on the line of the high-DHA algae based oils (e.g. Neuromins). Hard to say, without doing comparison trials.
Lar
Posted by banga on March 27, 2005, at 9:08:30
In reply to Re: A new twist--eating salmon often... » banga, posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2005, at 8:37:10
> That is only true for European farmed salmon, and only some farmed salmon, at that. All American salmon (both South and North American) is fed a ration which is primarily made from fish meal. (There are environmental arguments against that, as huge ships with vacuums are sucking up herring- and sardine-like fishes at massive rates, and just grinding them up.) In any case, that grain-fed fish armument is old news. I don't think it happens very often any more, and only applies to certain areas of the North Sea, anyway.
I agree, this is a generalization....but when buying my salmon, I doubt they are able to tell me what farm it is from and what was fed...on the other hand, fish from the wild can have heavy metals. The trick for me is to get fish from the cleaner waters.....
Posted by banga on March 27, 2005, at 9:12:21
In reply to Re: A new twist--eating salmon often... » banga, posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2005, at 8:41:22
I just received awful news. My cousin, who has bipolar, was off medication to have her child. She tried to manage with fish oil. Her husband just called to say she has been hospitalized with full blown psychosis.
Just a reminder to all that getting by with supplements is the best, most healthy thing, along with reducing stress.....but in some cases, it simply is not enough. She did everything right.....
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 28, 2005, at 10:35:52
In reply to Re: A new twist--eating salmon often..., posted by banga on March 27, 2005, at 9:08:30
> I agree, this is a generalization....but when buying my salmon, I doubt they are able to tell me what farm it is from and what was fed...on the other hand, fish from the wild can have heavy metals. The trick for me is to get fish from the cleaner waters.....
Where I buy fish, it always says where it's from. "Product of USA", "Product of Argentina", etc. If it's from the Americas, it was fed fish meal.
A close friend of mine is an aquaculture specialist. She developed an all-female trout farm, as females have nicer flesh. She is a superb resource for all the aquaculture info I needed, and I supplied her with toxicological info to help her choose feed sources. Anyway, I'm pretty sure we had the "inside scoop" on what was really going on in the industry.
Grain-supplemented feeds are inferior to fish meal ones, and that's all there is to it. There's actually a glut of aquaculture capacity in the Americas, and anybody not using fish meal just can't get a good price for their product.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 28, 2005, at 10:37:07
In reply to Re: Horrid news, posted by banga on March 27, 2005, at 9:12:21
> I just received awful news. My cousin, who has bipolar, was off medication to have her child. She tried to manage with fish oil. Her husband just called to say she has been hospitalized with full blown psychosis.
>
> Just a reminder to all that getting by with supplements is the best, most healthy thing, along with reducing stress.....but in some cases, it simply is not enough. She did everything right.....Geez, I'm sorry to hear that. The Stoll articles on fish oil for bipolar used fish oil as an augment with, never a replacement for, mood stabilizing drugs.
Lar
Posted by buddhi on July 22, 2005, at 12:17:27
In reply to Re: Not all Omega-3s are created equal » itsme2003, posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 11:15:20
> > >
> > > Omega-9 fatty acids are not deficient in most people's diets, and there is no imbalance associated with their lack.
> > >
> > > With the advent of modern food processing over the last century, and the novel availability and amount of vegetable oils in our diets (from an evolutionary perspective), I cannot conceive that anyone is deficient in omega-6 or omega-9 fatty acids. We currently get about 60 times as much as our ancestors had in their diets. Simultaneous to that increase, we've lost half our omega-3 intake.
> > >
> > > I was able to exactly match a commercial (Udo's) 3-6-9 oil blend by simply proportioning canola, olive and flax oils appropriately. Hocus-pocus oil, IMHO.
> > >
> > > Just my perspective.
> > >
> > > Lar
> > >
> >
> > Keep in mind that there are two important items about a particular fatty acid. The position of the first double bond (the omega) and the chain length. The body can shorten the chains fairly easily, but has a lot of difficulty making the chain longer. Thus you can't really take flax oil (a shorter chain omega-3) and expect to get the benefits that you would get from fish oil (a longer chain omega-3).
> >
> > I have read that the standard American diet is deficient in Gamma Linolenic Aid (GLA) which is an omega-6 fatty acid. Thus a person could be in a position of ingesting way too much omega-6 fatty acid, yet not get enough of one particular omega-6 fatty acid.
> >
> > I agree that the average person has no deficiency of omega-9 fatty acids. These come along naturally in all of the named ingredients in this oil. Besides from a marketing perspective, omega 3-6-9 oil probably sounds better than omega 3-6 oil.
>
> All absolutely correct. There is no substitute for ingestion of preformed EPA and DHA. Moreover, ingesting the combination of omega-3 fats (which bind to desaturase enzymes with higher affinity than do omega-6) with GLA shunts the GLA into an alternative pathway (not towards arichidonic acid) that produces anti-inflammatory prostaglandins.
>
> The commercial 3-6-9 blends are nothing more than snake oil products, IMHO. Udo is a quack.
>
> Lar
>Hi larry question for you I was wondering what fish oil brand do you recommend ???? you can write me back when your through being blocked or emailo me at amy@pause.com
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